-->?Fully-Detailed?? So That Why I Shouldn't Make Salat?
-
?Fully detailed? Huh?
The critical view on using the absence of detailed instructions as a justification to avoid performing Salat and re-defining terms.266
We set them up as an example for their generation, as well as subsequent generations, and an enlightenment for the righteous.267
Moses said to his people, "GOD commands you to sacrifice a heifer." They said, "Are you mocking us?" He said, "GOD forbid, that I should behave like the ignorant ones."268
They said, "Call upon your Lord to show us which one." He said, "He says that she is a heifer that is neither too old, nor too young; of an intermediate age. Now, carry out what you are commanded to do."269
They said, "Call upon your Lord to show us her color." He said, "He says that she is a yellow heifer, bright colored, pleases the beholders."270
They said, "Call upon your Lord to show us which one. The heifers look alike to us and, GOD willing, we will be guided."271
He said, "He says that she is a heifer that was never humiliated in plowing the land or watering the crops; free from any blemish." They said, "Now you have brought the truth." They finally sacrificed her, after this lengthy reluctance.Presented above is the story of Moses. In order to remove the evil desires of idolatry within his people, God inspired Moses to order his people to sacrifice their idol, a actual heifer. However, because his people had such great admirations for the heifer as an idol and because they were commitment to following their desires, they expressed reluctance to fulfill Moses command. As an expression of their reluctance, they insisted for more ?details? and ?descriptions? of the exact heifer they must sacrifice.
This story is great example that can be applied to the issue of Salat. There are those who insist that Salat is not a ritual contact prayer to God done by reciting a divinely inspired prayer and glorification (Chapter ?The Key?), and by performing the two body movements linked in the Quran as acts of submission (bowing and prostrating).
Although Salat main meaning is prayer, when one is told that God commanded humans to perform the daily Contact Prayer (Salat), those who insist it is not a prayer say words similar to Moses people such as ?Well show me in the Quran how to perform the exact movements? or ask ?Where is the details of this ?ritual prayer? in the Quran?? They sincerely believe that the absent of those details in the Quran justify elimination of Salat as a linking prayer. They abuse verses such as 6114 in the Quran, insisting that everything pertaining to ?spiritual guidance? is detailed in the Quran. Yet, such ?detail seeking? only exposes their reluctance and desires to commit to idolatry, following their egos (4523) similar the story of Moses and his followers. Such individuals only ask such questions to avoid performing God commands of observing Salat. Why? Because the argument that absence of detailed instructions justifies avoidance of performance and allowance of re-defining terms is a subjective argument only applied to specific topics such as Zakat (mandatory charity) and Salat (Contact Prayer). By abusing verse 6114, people who insist Salat is not a prayer forget or ignore other commands by God not fully detailed in the Quran. Yet, they don?t try to redefine such terms and commands. Also, it exposes their hypocrisy since they do follow many commandments that are not fully-detailed in the Quran, yet accuse others who seek details instruction of Salat outside the Koran of using ?hadiths.? However they use outside sources to determine the exact application of Quran commandments.
Within the Quran, there are many topics and commandments God issued to us that are not full detailed with exact instructions.
How to Dress not ?Fully-Detailed?
God commands the believing men and women to dress modestly (726, 2430-33). Yet the details of how exactly to dress are completely absence within the Quran. How come individuals against Contact Prayer try not to redefine the term ?dress? in the Quran or avoid performing this commandment since it is not ?fully-detailed? in the Quran?
They will accuse others who seek details instructions of Salat outside the Koran of following ?hadiths? yet they themselves seek advice and instructions on how to dress modestly and on other topics which is outside the Quran (since exactly how to dress modestly is not fully detailed in the Quran).
Accordingly the logic of individuals? who are against Contact Prayer, I am forbidden to use the dressing code of a famous fashion designer or a particular culture because ?it is not fully-detailed in the Quran.? Surely that is illogical!
However, not only are the particulars of dress not ?fully-detailed? in the Quran, there are other issues such as
-
How to do a Bath not ?Fully-Detailed? in the Quran (443)
-
How not to walk proudly is not ?Fully-Detailed? in the Quran (1737)
-
Exactly how to read and recite the Quran not ?Fully-Detailed? in the Quran (1778 )
-
Exactly how to commence a Marriage not ?Fully-Detailed? in the Quran (423)
-
Sexual Intercourse with Spouse not ?Fully-Detailed? in the Quran (2187)
-
Exactly what Good Food to eat not ?Fully-Detailed? in the Quran (55)
-
Exactly what are acceptable transactions not ?Fully-Detailed? in the Quran (429)
-
What intoxicants to avoid not ?Fully-Detailed? in the Quran (590)
-
Exactly how to fulfill covenants not ?Fully-Detailed? in the Quran (51)
So why individuals who insist Salat is not a ritual prayer applying the same methodology that absence of detailed instructions justifies avoidance of performance and allowance of re-defining terms to these issues above? Is the Koran that ?fully-detailed? that we can avoid performing Salat (Contact Prayer) because there are not precise detail instructions? No. Such people abuse verses like 6114 as justification for their personal avoidance of performing the daily Salat.
Also, such people who sincerely believe simply may just want to avoid sacrificing their desires and admirations to their idol (ego), similar to the story of Moses and his followers in verse 266. They only seek detail as an effort to avoid fulfilling God commandments. Their ego tells them that bowing is to ?primitive? a form of worship and expression of submission. When told that Salat is a form of prayer, they will reply ?Are you mocking us? since serving God involves more highly ?sophisticated? actions than simply expressing submission by sincerely prayer, glorifying, and physically bowing and prostrating.
-
-
Salaams satan hates,
i don't know if anyone has shown you this ayatYou said "FULLY DETAILED" Huh.
Allah said(i think)
6115
.....And he is the one who has sent to you the book in detail.......
638
........not we neglect in the book anything .........
And why do we not take these statements literally?
Salaam.
-
Salaams satan hates,
i don't know if anyone has shown you this ayatYou said "FULLY DETAILED" Huh.
Allah said(i think)
6115
.....And he is the one who has sent to you the book in detail.......
638
........not we neglect in the book anything .........
And why do we not take these statements literally?
Salaam.
how about you use them in context instead of abusing it out of context.
-
And couldn't you have said the context,to me it wasn't making any difference from what we were talking about, so if if it is to you please explain how.Thanks.
-
And couldn't you have said the context,to me it wasn't making any difference from what we were talking about, so if if it is to you please explain how.Thanks.
those who deny ritual prayer use the same argument which is "the koran is fuly-detailed"
however this argument is subjective and abuse out of context. for example you quote verse 6115 and 638. But you may have forgottten that these verse are inbetween other verses and relate to surrounding verses. For example
6112
We have permitted the enemies of every prophet - human and jinn devils - to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.6113
This is to let the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter listen to such fabrications, and accept them, and thus expose their real convictions.6114
Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.6115
The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.6116
If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of GOD. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.If you read verse 6115 without the cover of "Koran Alone theory" you learn that GOD was talking about lies attributed to messengers and prohets (6112). Than God ask, "why listen to those lies when this book is fully-detialed"(6114). Then in context with what was already mentioned in 6112-114 God say "My words and complete." YOu sould remember that the verse was relivant in Muhammed times as well and not just for us now.
This is what many people againts ritual prayer missed. The context. GOD never mention in these verse anything about salat not meaning ritual prayer (nor does He do it throughout the Koran). People who deny salat abuse this verse to suit there point.
The same with verse 638 If you read it in CONTEXT, you see a totally different story push by those who deny ritual prayer.
637
They said, "If only a certain sign could come down to him from his Lord!" Say, "GOD is able to send down a sign, but most of them do not know."638
All the creatures on earth, and all the birds that fly with wings, are communities like you. We did not leave anything out of this book. To their Lord, all these creatures will be summoned.639
Those who reject our proofs are deaf and dumb, in total darkness. Whomever GOD wills, He sends astray, and whomever He wills, He leads in a straight path.Notice how i bold the surrounding text. it is to make people remember that the verse has context and surronding text. In verse 638 God states all creature are communities like us then HE said "we left nothing out of this book" then right after that says "all these creatures will be summoned."
Yet people who deny ritual prayer take the sentence inbetween these two statements to justify the false claims of no ritual prayer abusing it out of context. IF you read it with a clear mind you learn that GOD is talking about the creatures being summoned. THere is no mention (nor in the entire koran) in this verse the salat is not a ritual prayer nor those this verse mention anything about "Everthing you need is in this book." peole abuse it like that. The verse is clearly talking about the creatures being summoned like us and that God didnt fail to mention this.
Please use verse in context because you may be abusing them to suit you prespective. Many of the verse quoted by those who deny ritual prayer are abuse and use OUT OF CONTEXT.
EVERY-TIME GOD mention the koran as complete or detialed, it is always in context to surronding verses.
-
I don't think i agree with your assertians about the above ayats,to me any way they are totally 100% going against your sugestions.
One word of advice to everyone -we can never find unless we seek,if you allways think you know it how can you learn , you can only fill something that is empty therefore how can you learn if you are allways full of it.
Thank you.
-
I don't think i agree with your assertians about the above ayats,to me any way they are totally 100% going against your sugestions.
One word of advice to everyone -we can never find unless we seek,if you allways think you know it how can you learn , you can only fill something that is empty therefore how can you learn if you are allways full of it.
Thank you.
i dont even think you actually read the post. you never states your reason for agreeing or disagee.How is it 100% against my "sugesstion"? If we are to debate with reason, you must present you case. maybe you have no case to present. Either way, Peace. Once i explain my point so everyone can understand.
-
If you say there are things about which allah didn't give full knowledge of can you state things other then the salat please !for everybodies attention.
Surely there must be others as well?Thanks ,SHM.
And Salaams.
-
If you say there are things about which allah didn't give full knowledge of can you state things other then the salat please !for everybodies attention.
Surely there must be others as well?Thanks ,SHM.
And Salaams.
look at my first post inthe begining of this thread.
-
********side observation
Ayman said
I agree. Not only did the "pre-quranic" Arabs understand that concept right off the bat, but so did Bani Israel and so did baby Jesus, etc. No one asked "how many Rakaats?" or "Should I put my hand on my side or in front of me?" etc.
So what do that prove? Salat is not a ritual prayer? NO
One issue i wanted to address is this argument that Jesus as a baby saying he is commanded to perform salat. people will use this as a false justifiction that salat is not a ritual prayer.
But iwant to ask this. If a baby said, " i am command to get marry" does that mean the baby is getting marry right away. What if the baby was command to give money, or have children, does that mean it will have a baby right away? NO. this argument (jesus as a baby commanded to perform salat) is baseless as proof the salat is not a ritual prayer.
-
I don't know why you are saying all them things are not fully detailed?
to me they are .If you don't know how to do any ,one of them then oblige me and God willing you will have your answer on your plate.
Thanks.Salaams SHM.
-
I don't know why you are saying all them things are not fully detailed?
to me they are .If you don't know how to do any ,one of them then oblige me and God willing you will have your answer on your plate.
Thanks.Salaams SHM.
that proves my point. how come no one is seeking "fully-detailed" instruction on how to take a bath, yet when it comes to salat, they need instructuions. The argument is so subjective and basis.
Lets say bob doesnt know how to take a bath, acording to your logic, he is forbidden to get knowledge outside the koran since the Koran is "fully-detailed". This is your argument which is illogical.
-
No your are being silly,because you and i know any thing important you will allways detail - those things that needed detailing.Allah said take a bath under certain situations,thats all he said whether you take it in one hour or ten,or standing on your head(meant it in a funny way) it doesn't matter an iota,if you take it thats what counts.Salaams.And thanks .
-
No your are being silly,because you and i know any thing important you will allways detail - those things that needed detailing.Allah said take a bath under certain situations,thats all he said whether you take it in one hour or ten,or standing on your head(meant it in a funny way) it doesn't matter an iota,if you take it thats what counts.Salaams.And thanks .
but there is no details of salat. there is just when it should be done, never how it is done. Yet you use the same argument against salat and not for bath. Like i sad, very subjective.
God said to perform salat at certain times, to wash before it, and other stuff, but never how to do it, why? Because everyone know already what it was, a ritual prayer.
-
Dear SHM,
it doesn't matter how you do your salat the details are up to you,appart from what allah almighty has told me and you about it.
same as for taking a bath - Allah hasn't doesn't expect you to follow any specific way- as for bathing.Apart from what he has said about the particuler thing.I thing;i can't reason more then what i have done;But God willing you will find out for yourself what i am talking about in due course.
Inshallah.
Salaam.
-
Dear SHM,
it doesn't matter how you do your salat the details are up to you,appart from what allah almighty has told me and you about it.
same as for taking a bath - Allah hasn't doesn't expect you to follow any specific way- as for bathing.Apart from what he has said about the particuler thing.I thing;i can't reason more then what i have done;But God willing you will find out for yourself what i am talking about in due course.
Inshallah.
Salaam.
are you admitting it is a ritual prayer or that is doesnt matter what it is?
-
Salaams SHM,
i used pray ritually-probably for about 20 years untill Allah opened my eyes through layth here,no i am afraid i don't follow ritual salaat like you -i follow or rather do something similer to nabi and other people studeying or discussing and thereby learning - and which does lead to its application as well.Salaams.
-
Salaams SHM,
i used pray ritually-probably for about 20 years untill Allah opened my eyes through layth here,no i am afraid i don't follow ritual salaat like you -i follow or rather do something similer to nabi and other people studeying or discussing and thereby learning - and which does lead to its application as well.Salaams.
oh...thats too bad. because surely salat is not a "debate" or a "study" assembly like nabi and layth are promoting with PM.
peace