Suicide
-
Peace
When I was a young child of about 10, I along with a friend of mine would time to time engage in what is termed suicide ideation. Many times our stories were based in the future, where as adults we would encounter tragedy after tragedy, inevitably ending in suicide. This went on for a few months, when one day my friend called me visibly upset. I do not know which translation/book of tafsir she used, but she told me that in the Quran it says that suicide leads to an eternity in hell. It is a selfish act, and an interference in God's plan.
A few years down the road, when suicide became an age appropriate topic, we were taught basically the same in religion class.
However, I personally could not help but see how if a person had committed suicide how much society in general was to blame for not having seen the warning signs, for not having appropriate interventions in place, for not providing this individual with help, he/she so desperately needed. How did we become so selfish and judgemental that a teacher of religion would preach against suicide to 13-14 year olds, without acknowledging the hardships that any one of the students might be going through, without stating that a small amount of suicide ideation is normal, without taking on a counselor position, and stating she is available if any needs to talk.
God does tell us in the Quran not to kill ourselves (429), immediately followed by him stating his mercy. This shows me that God acknowledges the feelings of those on the brink of suicide. In the next verse God does state that its easy for him to cast to hell, but I see no indication of every victim of suicide ending up in hell, rather there are certain conditions.
The Quran is beautiful, and we are blessed to be blessed with it. If only we would follow it more, and try to even have 1% of the mercy thats God does.
I have posted a link explaining what the warning signs of suicide are, so you can them recognize them in family and friends, and thus hopefully prevent a tragedy.
http//www.suicide.org/suicide-warning-signs.html
Kukumber
-
Peace
When I was a young child of about 10, I along with a friend of mine would time to time engage in what is termed suicide ideation. Many times our stories were based in the future, where as adults we would encounter tragedy after tragedy, inevitably ending in suicide. This went on for a few months, when one day my friend called me visibly upset. I do not know which translation/book of tafsir she used, but she told me that in the Quran it says that suicide leads to an eternity in hell. It is a selfish act, and an interference in God's plan.
A few years down the road, when suicide became an age appropriate topic, we were taught basically the same in religion class.
However, I personally could not help but see how if a person had committed suicide how much society in general was to blame for not having seen the warning signs, for not having appropriate interventions in place, for not providing this individual with help, he/she so desperately needed. How did we become so selfish and judgemental that a teacher of religion would preach against suicide to 13-14 year olds, without acknowledging the hardships that any one of the students might be going through, without stating that a small amount of suicide ideation is normal, without taking on a counselor position, and stating she is available if any needs to talk.
God does tell us in the Quran not to kill ourselves (429), immediately followed by him stating his mercy. This shows me that God acknowledges the feelings of those on the brink of suicide. In the next verse God does state that its easy for him to cast to hell, but I see no indication of every victim of suicide ending up in hell, rather there are certain conditions.
The Quran is beautiful, and we are blessed to be blessed with it. If only we would follow it more, and try to even have 1% of the mercy thats God does.
I have posted a link explaining what the warning signs of suicide are, so you can them recognize them in family and friends, and thus hopefully prevent a tragedy.
http//www.suicide.org/suicide-warning-signs.html
Kukumber
Yeah I had a similar discussion with my husband, he said it says you go to hell for eternity in the Qur'an if you kill yourself ... I told him the Qur'an simply says not to kill yourselves but the part about spending an eternity in hell is from the hadiths. I would think that a person that kills themselves is not mentally stable or they are severely depressed.
-
Yeah I had a similar discussion with my husband, he said it says you go to hell for eternity in the Qur'an if you kill yourself ... I told him the Qur'an simply says not to kill yourselves but the part about spending an eternity in hell is from the hadiths. I would think that a person that kills themselves is not mentally stable or they are severely depressed.
what ? what the hell is that ? you make lies about Qur'an yet you're saying that you're quranist .
God said { * }
the punishement for a suicider is the eternity in hell, because he doesn't trust God that he will make things better for him soon or later . and about the people who have mental disorder, they are already relieved from this responsabilty. we're talking about people with safe. minds.
-
Peace
Well over 90% of those that commit suicide have major depressive disorder, bipolar disorder, or schizophrenia. In majority of the cases, they have not seeked help, and it remains undiagnosed at the time of suicide. I took Psychology in University where we learned this. I can attempt to provide sources, but academic journals where these studies were published, tend to remain inaccessible to the larger public. However the website link I provided in my first post has similar conclusions.
I do not know about world statistics, but in Canada, data compiled from Statistics Canada show that 20% of the population require mental health services at least once in their life time. This obviously does not include those that never seek help. Therefore those with a mental disorder are not in the minority, and those with a "safe mind" in the majority.
Mental illness is everywhere, and we as a society are failing to address the issue adequately. On top of that the religious among us tend to be very judgemental, and fail to see suicide victims as victims.
Nowhere in the Quran does it say suicide = eternity in hell. This may be from the hadiths, or a borrowed Christian concept.
The two verses that discuss suicide are 429-30. This the Pickthall translation. According to him, God is not even talking about suicide.
29 O ye who believe! Squander not your wealth among yourselves in vanity, except it be a trade by mutual consent, and kill not one another. Lo! Allah is ever Merciful unto you.
30 Whoso doeth that through aggression and injustice, we shall cast him into Fire, and that is ever easy for Allah
This is the free minds translation
O you who believe, do not consume your money between you unjustly, unless it is through a trade which is mutually agreed by
you. And do not kill yourselves; God is Merciful towards you. 430 And whoever does so out of animosity and transgression, We will
cast him to a Fire; and this for God is very easyI see here that first God talks about his mercy, then sets two conditions for which hell may result, plus he never uses the word eternity.
Thereformer, I think you should look up the word "empathy". The world is not a happy place, for the majority. We need to stop blaming the victims.
Peace
Kukumber
-
Peace
Thanks for the link Wakas, However we talk about two very different things. I am saying that God says in the Quran not to kill yourselves, and many of us take this statement and become very judgmental with it, and preach suicide = eternity in hell, rather than helping our fellow human beings that so desperately need our help. It is never ok to end your life, and I am not saying it is.
If there is someone among us that has committed suicide, we should not after his death call him/her selfish, and state he will now go to hell, but be ashamed that we failed to see the warning signs, and failed to provide hope. This is what I mean by victimizing the victim.
Suicide bombers on the other hand have a completely different mentality, that I do not quite understand. Many are falsely indoctrinated at a very young age, that suicide bombing which includes murder of innocent civilians is an honourable thing to do, despite it having no basis in the Quran. Despite the "terror" they cause, does God forgive them, and place the blame squarely on those high up causing the false indoctrination, I do not know.
God tells us about his mercy over and over, and I have strong faith in a merciful God.
Kukumber
-
Peace
Thereformer, I think you should look up the word "empathy". The world is not a happy place, for the majority. We need to stop blaming the victims.
Peace
Kukumberwhether the suicider is going to hell for eternity or not, the important thing is he is going to visit hell police
and there is a verse talks about suicide
God said { * }
-
Peace thereformer
You are the one that wrote one who commits suicide the punishment is eternity in hell, and are now saying eternity or not, punishment in hell. You are the one that wrote the only exception is mental illness. You give me proof with a verse. Can you please provide me with a chapter and verse number, as I provided you.
My response was that over 90% of those who commit suicide have a mental illness. If someone with a mental illness commits suicide, we should not say it is all good, he/she had a mental illness. They won't go to hell. They may not go to hell but, we failed them.
Kukumber
-
Peace thereformer
You are the one that wrote one who commits suicide the punishment is eternity in hell, and are now saying eternity or not, punishment in hell. You are the one that wrote the only exception is mental illness. You give me proof with a verse. Can you please provide me with a chapter and verse number, as I provided you.
My response was that over 90% of those who commit suicide have a mental illness. If someone with a mental illness commits suicide, we should not say it is all good, he/she had a mental illness. They won't go to hell. They may not go to hell but, we failed them.
Kukumber
well, you're right , I have made a reasearch about suicide in Japan, and I found that they suicide without reason and with all their cousciousness. anyways I've said eternity but who knows maybe not but the important is that the suicider is going to hell .
-
Peace RA
The situation you talk about has been discussed from an ethical point of view extensively in health-care philosophy. The issue is that for most individuals, when they get to the point of excruciating pain they are physically unable to kill themselves.
This is where euthanasia comes in. Aiding in an individuals death when he requests it. We do it to animals all the time. However when it comes to humans, in most countries it is considered murder and illegal. The exception are a few European countries.
It is a very complicated situation, and I have not personally decided yet where I stand on it. There is so much potential out there for the laws around euthanasia to get more and more lax, and so much easier for health-care to snuff out individuals with complicated illnesses where pain cannot be controlled, before even attempting to treat them.
Also, there may be some elderly individuals asking for euthanasia because they feel they are a burden on their families.
Sadly, not everything is black and white.
Kukumber
-
Thanks Kukumber,
It is a very complicated situation...
I hope that I never be tried with a painful situation like that (inshallah), But There is a Part of me that says, If I were ever to be in a Painful situation...I may still want to live, only because I believe that
A) Allah doesnt place a Burden on you which you cannot handle
and B)it is your steadfastness even through trials and tribulation that will earn you reward.
So I think that after my suffering I may get a reward, thus giving me an incentive to stay alive and not give up.
(Allah knows best).However in the sense of War, I dont know how I feel about Justifiable Suicide. Because in War isnt some Suicide justifiable if its for a good cause?
Im not talking about killing innocent people (thats bad obviously,) but I mean like...If you were going to attack the enemies base and you knew you were going to die..however...your attack would help justice soo much... Then would that be consittered "suicide" OR "Sacrifice"?I like Che Guvara's Quote that says soemthing like "I dont care if I Fall....As long as someone picks up my gun and keeps shooting."
This to me illustrates the fight for justice even if it means sacrificing your own life in the cause.I think there is a BIG difference between "Sacrifice" and "Suicide", I personnally Distinguish the two by stating that SUICIDE is meaningless and Vain Death. while...Sacrifice is Death with extreame Meaning.
What does the Quran say about Sacrifice and Suicide (as far as Root-words Go?)
What is the Root of Sacrifice? -
peace Kukumber,
I agree that "suicide" and "suicide bombing" are different things, but they are related, hence my link. It contains info relevant not only to suicide bombing, but to suicide in general.
I do not necessarily agree/disagree with your view. I am just providing extra info.
-
peace Kukumber,
I agree that "suicide" and "suicide bombing" are different things, but they are related, hence my link. It contains info relevant not only to suicide bombing, but to suicide in general.
I do not necessarily agree/disagree with your view. I am just providing extra info.
wakas, do you think that Sacraficial Death is Justifiable and cannot be Equal to Suicide?
How about the Movie Armageddon with Bruce Willis, Did he Comit "Suicide"
or did he give an AMAZING SACRIFICE?
D -
what ? what the hell is that ? you make lies about Qur'an yet you're saying that you're quranist .
God said { * }
the punishement for a suicider is the eternity in hell, because he doesn't trust God that he will make things better for him soon or later . and about the people who have mental disorder, they are already relieved from this responsabilty. we're talking about people with safe. minds.
Whoa buddy,
Making lies about the Qur'an? I only state what I understand.
I never said I was a "quranist", you seem very antagonistic in your reply.
I don't know Arabic. -
peace RA786,
I think that would not come under sacrifice, not suicide.
Granted, it is a grey area. I am just giving you my view.
Not Suicde and Not Sacrifice?
then what is it? doesnt it have to be either or?I think That there was a mistranslation/mis-interpretation on this subject.
I think a Similar subject is Killing, Murder, and Manslaughtor.
All of these 3 things are different...even though they all share the deffinition of "Taking a life".
What makes them different is INTENT and Justifiable taking of life.The Torah does not say "Thall shall not Kill" I think it says "Thall Shall Not MURDER"
Killing can be a justified taking of life such as Self-Defense and Retaliation.
However Murder is intentionall killing of an innocent life,
and Manslautor is the UN-intentional killing of an innocent life.I think the same can be said about Suicide and Sacrifice (i.e. Martyrdom).
I think The Distinction is again within the INTENT (just like killing/murder/manslautor example) -
Peace
When I was a young child of about 10, I along with a friend of mine would time to time engage in what is termed suicide ideation. Many times our stories were based in the future, where as adults we would encounter tragedy after tragedy, inevitably ending in suicide. This went on for a few months, when one day my friend called me visibly upset. I do not know which translation/book of tafsir she used, but she told me that in the Quran it says that suicide leads to an eternity in hell. It is a selfish act, and an interference in God's plan.
A few years down the road, when suicide became an age appropriate topic, we were taught basically the same in religion class.
However, I personally could not help but see how if a person had committed suicide how much society in general was to blame for not having seen the warning signs, for not having appropriate interventions in place, for not providing this individual with help, he/she so desperately needed. How did we become so selfish and judgemental that a teacher of religion would preach against suicide to 13-14 year olds, without acknowledging the hardships that any one of the students might be going through, without stating that a small amount of suicide ideation is normal, without taking on a counselor position, and stating she is available if any needs to talk.
God does tell us in the Quran not to kill ourselves (429), immediately followed by him stating his mercy. This shows me that God acknowledges the feelings of those on the brink of suicide. In the next verse God does state that its easy for him to cast to hell, but I see no indication of every victim of suicide ending up in hell, rather there are certain conditions.
The Quran is beautiful, and we are blessed to be blessed with it. If only we would follow it more, and try to even have 1% of the mercy thats God does.
I have posted a link explaining what the warning signs of suicide are, so you can them recognize them in family and friends, and thus hopefully prevent a tragedy.
http//www.suicide.org/suicide-warning-signs.html
Kukumber
If you are not mentally affected and kill yourself then it is a big sin. But if you are mentally efected by that and severly depressed and affected, then you will commit suicide unknowingly.
what ? what the hell is that ? you make lies about Qur'an yet you're saying that you're quranist .
God said { * }
the punishement for a suicider is the eternity in hell, because he doesn't trust God that he will make things better for him soon or later . and about the people who have mental disorder, they are already relieved from this responsabilty. we're talking about people with safe. minds.
O you who believe, do not consume each others' properties illicitly - only mutually acceptable transactions are permitted. You shall not kill yourselves. GOD is Merciful towards you.
Anyone who commits these transgressions, maliciously and deliberately, we will condemn him to Hell. This is easy for GOD to do.
THe koran doesn't say eternity bro!
peace RA786,
I think that would not come under sacrifice, not suicide.
Granted, it is a grey area. I am just giving you my view.
Even if it is "sacrificial death" the suicide bombers kill lots of innocent people. Murder is a big sin.
-
Even if it is "sacrificial death" the suicide bombers kill lots of innocent people. Murder is a big sin.
Remember Brother, I am not talking bout them. You are right that would be Murder since the Intention is to kill Innocent people.
a "Suicide Bomber" who blows himself up in war (however does NOT KILL ANY INNOCENT PEOPLE) is not a suicide bomber...but more like a "Sacrifice Bomber" and I feel is therefore Justified since No Innocent people where Lost.
Intention is the main factor in distinguishing the Difference between Suicide/Sacrifice/Murder/Manslaughtor/and Justafiable killing.
I think even with Animals too.
I think if you End a Cows life for No reason just for fun, or to let its body go to waste....That is MURDER and is Morally WRONG
However, I think that if you End a Cows Life (kill it) for Consumption and use its body to feed your family and the Poor...it is a justifiable sacrifice and is Morally RIGHT.The Difference between the two is "intention/Meaning".
