Suicide
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Remember Brother, I am not talking bout them. You are right that would be Murder since the Intention is to kill Innocent people.
a "Suicide Bomber" who blows himself up in war (however does NOT KILL ANY INNOCENT PEOPLE) is not a suicide bomber...but more like a "Sacrifice Bomber" and I feel is therefore Justified since No Innocent people where Lost.
Intention is the main factor in distinguishing the Difference between Suicide/Sacrifice/Murder/Manslaughtor/and Justafiable killing.
I think even with Animals too.
I think if you End a Cows life for No reason just for fun, or to let its body go to waste....That is MURDER and is Morally WRONG
However, I think that if you End a Cows Life (kill it) for Consumption and use its body to feed your family and the Poor...it is a justifiable sacrifice and is Morally RIGHT.The Difference between the two is "intention/Meaning".
handshake thanks for opening my mind. group
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Salamun alaikum,
I think the point Kukumber is making is more about what suicide has to say about the community...
as we have moved to a more urbanised society people no longer have the same community aspect that people would have once had in a small village lets say, 'where everyone knows your name'. People become anonymous, mere statistics. It is in these scenarios that people who have a mental health issue tend to slip through the net and suicides occur.
Suicides are wrong. Hell is eternal. Those with mental health issues are no longer responsible for their actions - it is the society they live in which is. I think this is the point.
I do not believe any sane mind would make the decision to kill themselves unless it is 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few' in which case it is a sacrifice - a suicidal one, but a sacrifice nonetheless. The issue comes about on how you decide what that need is. Suicide bombing is wrong on too many levels to count - because that is killing yourself with the intent of harming others - not saving people. Bruce Willis would (i hope) be judged good because of sacrificing himself for the whole world. ok, enough of the fiction - the lines are blurring and I've got that dratted tune in my head now...
Peace
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Thanks Darcus for seeing my point.
I feel we are so quick to judge others, that we will condemn the one that has committed suicide, and fail to see the blame we as a society had in it too.
No instead, we decrease the respect offered, during the funeral prayers, and burial services.
"If someone expresses suicidal thoughts to you, it is important that you warn him or her of the consequences" has been quoted in the sunni website http//muttaqun.com/suicide.html, as the action to take. Here is someone crying out for help, and in whose sane mind is saying "you know you will go to hell" is what that person needed the most.
Also, I would never say about a person that had committed suicude, that he will be in hell as if its a given fact. God knows that person better than I do, and God knows his own will better than I do.
As for sacrifice, I personally believe that being killed while in a "rightful" battle/war (definition of a shaheed), as a consequence of being in that situation, is very different from strapping yourself to explosives and entering enemy grounds, and blowing yourself up, and a few enemy combatants at the same time, which is of course very different from strapping explosives to yourself, and blowing yourself up and a few civilians at the same time. For me shaheed or martyr only fits the first concept.
Also I find it hard to believe that any war occuring today is "rightful" in anyway. They all seem to stem primarily from greed and power. But of course the civilians get caught in between, as their land or way of life is threatened, and they choose a side and become soldiers, and fight. In my opinion, any deaths that result thereof, should be considered martyrs. But thats my opinion, and I don't know God's will.
Peace
Kukumber
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what ? what the hell is that ? you make lies about Qur'an yet you're saying that you're quranist .
God said { * }
the punishement for a suicider is the eternity in hell, because he doesn't trust God that he will make things better for him soon or later . and about the people who have mental disorder, they are already relieved from this responsabilty. we're talking about people with safe. minds.
How many people with "safe minds" kill themselves?
And a person with any mental disorder is not automatically relieved from responsibility.And whats up with that "you make lies about the quran" part of your comment. What makes you any more correct that the next person? When speaking with your Quranic brothers and sisters speak with respect, don't insult them by calling them liars.
And a translation to the verse you posted would be great - many here don't read arabic.
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... the presence of someone who cares
you won't understand how crucial this is until you are the person thinking about suicide, or you directly stop a suicidal attempt, or witness it happening. at least you can always imagine it, esp with news of such event keep surfacing these days.
Until the very last moment of his/her life, i think he/she is still responsible for his/her choice (given he/she is mature/adult), which is why we need to remind, not about that "you are going to hell" --as has been pointed out-- because he/she is already going towards it (not the fire, but the suffering of the mind) -- but remind that "you can choose to live".
The "care" part however, can't be explained with words-- he/she needs to know/see a possibility of living a better life than the one he/she had. Still it comes down to his/her choice, but the presence of someone who cares is vital.
It's not about what will happen after the suicide that matters. It's beyond us. Kukumber and Darcus, you made good point on the society/community (and family, i should add).
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Peace Kukumber and all,
God does tell us in the Quran not to kill ourselves (429), immediately followed by him stating his mercy. This shows me that God acknowledges the feelings of those on the brink of suicide. In the next verse God does state that its easy for him to cast to hell, but I see no indication of every victim of suicide ending up in hell, rather there are certain conditions.
Kukumber
In truth, the two verses is not about God condemning the person who kill himself/herself. God condemn those who consume the money unjustly and out of animosity and transgression. And God is merciful to those who kill themselves because He knows, man was created weak (42. He is the best Judge, the Most Merciful. I don?t think a person will want to commit suicide out of animosity and transgression towards himself/herself?
I never experienced this situation personally. And honestly, I will never know what to do if I face this kind of situation. And I will never understand when a person said ?the important is that the suicider is going to hell?, repeatedly. (
May God have Mercy on us all. pr
tauhid101
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hi, t101
what kind of situation did you mean? of one who has suicidal thinking or of the person witnessing someone having suicidal thinking/attempt?
Hi, san
None of the above, san, thanks for caring group. Most suicides I come across are those I read or heard in the news.tauhid101
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Hi, san
None of the above, san, thanks for caring group. Most suicides I come across are those I read or heard in the news.tauhid101
who said i care? just curious ;D well, the point that you are aware of this issue is a plus for when you actually have to face it (as the caring person, i hope, not the other end). I think that's what this thread is about...
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Peace be upon you,
with all due Respect.When I talk about death with certain people, they become upset and think I might commit suicide and when I tell them that I look at death from religious point of view, they calm down, Thank God. What certian people don't wanna face as the actual end of life - death. They keep running away so much so, that they are approaching it on the other side.
I believe that a perosn must read The Qur'an every single day, for a few hours in order to be aware that this life is not life but a game, just Like God tells us in The Qur'an. We should read The Qur'an any time we got any free time. God knows best.
Peace be upon you.
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Peace be upon you,
with all due Respect.When I talk about death with certain people, they become upset and think I might commit suicide and when I tell them that I look at death from religious point of view, they calm down, Thank God. What certian people don't wanna face as the actual end of life - death. They keep running away so much so, that they are approaching it on the other side.
I believe that a perosn must read The Qur'an every single day, for a few hours in order to be aware that this life is not life but a game, just Like God tells us in The Qur'an. We should read The Qur'an any time we got any free time. God knows best.
Peace be upon you.
Does Allah say life is a game in the Koran?
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Does Allah say life is a game in the Koran?
Peace be upon you,
with all due Respect.Let me know, if you see the difference between this "life" and the hereafter
286 These are the ones who have purchased this worldly life instead of the Hereafter. The retribution will not be reduced for them, nor will they be supported.
2212 This worldly life has been made pleasing to the disbelievers, and they mock those who believe. And those who are righteous will be above them on the Day of Resurrection; God provides for whoever He wishes without a price.
670 Leave alone those who have taken their system for play and distraction, and this worldly life has tempted them. And remind with it that a soul will suffer for what it has earned, it will not have besides God any supporter nor intercessor; and even if it brings all justice, none will be accepted from it. These are the ones who have suffered with what they have earned; for them will be a boiling drink, and a painful retribution for what they had rejected.
751 The ones who took their system for distraction and play, and were preoccupied with this worldly life. Today We forget them as they forgot their meeting on this Day, and they did not heed Our revelations.
1828 And have patience upon yourself regarding those who call on their Lord at dawn and dusk seeking His face, and let not your eyes overlook them that you seek the beauty of this worldly life. And do not obey he whom We have made his heart heedless of Our remembrance and he followed his desire, and his fate was lost.
1845 And give them the example of this worldly life is like a water which We have sent down from the sky, so that the plants of the earth mix with it and it becomes murky being moved by the wind. And God is capable of all things.
1846 Wealth and sons are a beauty of this worldly life. But the good deeds that remain behind are better with your Lord for a reward, and better for hope.
2072 They said We will not prefer you over the proofs that have come to us, and over the One who initiated us. So issue whatever judgment you have, for you only issue judgment in this worldly life.
2333 And the leaders from among his people who rejected and denied the meeting of the Hereafter; and We indulged them in this worldly life; said What is this but a human being like you? He eats from what you eat and he drinks from what you drink.
2861 Is one whom We promised a good promise, and it will come to pass, equal to one whom We provided with the goods of this life, then on the Day of Resurrection he is of those who will be summoned?
2879 Then he came out among his people draped in his ornaments. Those who preferred this worldly life said Oh, if only we were given similar to what Qaroon has been given. Indeed, he is very fortunate.
2964 And this worldly life is no more than distraction and play, while the abode of the Hereafter is the reality, if only they knew.
3133 O people, you shall reverence your Lord, and be concerned of a Day when a father cannot help his child, nor can a child help his father. Certainly, the promise of God is truth. Therefore, do not be deceived by this worldly life; and do not be deceived from God by arrogance.
3328 O prophet, say to your wives If you are seeking this worldly life and its vanities, then come, I will make a provision for you and release you in an amicable manner.
355 O people, the promise of God is the truth; therefore, do not be overwhelmed by this worldly life, and do not let arrogance overwhelm you from God.
4039 O my people, this worldly life is but an enjoyment, while the Hereafter is the permanent abode.
4335 And many ornaments. All these are the pleasures of this worldly life. And the Hereafter with your Lord is for the righteous.
4535 This is because you took the revelations of God in mockery, and you were deceived by the worldly life. So from this Day, they will never exit therefrom, nor will they be excused.
5034 Enter it in peace. This is the Day of eternal life.
5329 So disregard he who turns away from Our reminder, and only desires this worldly life.
5720 Know that the worldly life is no more than play and distraction and adornments, and boasting among you, and to increase in wealth and children. It is like plants that are supplied by an abundant rain, which appear pleasing to the rejecters. But then they dry-up and turn yellow, and become useless hay. And in the Hereafter there is severe retribution, and forgiveness from God and acceptance. This worldly life is no more than a deceiving enjoyment.Trust me, read The Qur'an for several hours, every day.
I know what I'm talking about. Read The Qur'an for several hours, every day.
Glory be to God, The MOST Merciful, The MOST Wise, The Provider, The Forgiver.
Peace be upon you.