one Question for Quranists
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Who is "they"?
they can't argue with us in Quran but they have found a good idea, is ripping them from inside(ripping the community of Islam) by attacking it from inside, let's attack the the other books (Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim) where Muslims got their second ligeslations . who do you think "they" ?
This incident is mentioned in the text above. Obviously you have not read all of it.
I read it, stop assuming that I didn't, it mentioned the answer of Abu Horaira but it is obvious that I didn't mention what was the answer of Aisha after his saying. so they want to hide this part , she said to him "Yes" because he was right.
Erm ... no. It seems you misunderstood. You need to learn to read a text completely and make sure you understand it properly before jumping to conclusions.
No, I didn't, so stop again assuming that I misunderstood, the subject is too easy to understand, the hidden message is that Arabs hate women or worst Muslims hate women. why this writer didn't mention the meeting between Omar and Abu Horaira, they talked about the same subject ?
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they can't argue with us in Quran but they have found a good idea, is ripping them from inside(ripping the community of Islam) by attacking it from inside, let's attack the the other books (Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim) where Muslims got their second ligeslations . who do you think "they" ?
I asked you to explain who you are referring to. Why don't you just answer the question?
I read it, stop assuming that I didn't, it mentioned the answer of Abu Horaira but it is obvious that I didn't mention what was the answer of Aisha after his saying. so they want to hide this part , she said to him "Yes" because he was right.
He tried to discredit Ayisha by doubting her truthfulness, memory and honesty and suggesting that she was occupied with trivial things (such as beautifying herself) instead of paying attention to what the prophet said. And you agree with him -- astaghfirullah!
No, I didn't, so stop again assuming that I misunderstood, the subject is too easy to understand, the hidden message is that Arabs hate women or worst Muslims hate women. why this writer didn't mention the meeting between Omar and Abu Horaira, they talked about the same subject ?
The Arabs did hate women, no doubt about it. This is one thing the prophet tried to change, and that's what this excerpt was about.
As for "why did the writer not mention this or that incident" -- how do you know she didn't? Have you read the whole book?
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I asked you to explain who you are referring to. Why don't you just answer the question?
I like puzzles lol .."they" refer to the ennemies of Islam (jewish, christians, just name it).
He tried to discredit Ayisha by doubting her truthfulness, memory and honesty and suggesting that she was occupied with trivial things (such as beautifying herself) instead of paying attention to what the prophet said. And you agree with him -- astaghfirullah!
No, his aim wasn't about disrespecting her, his real aim was that she wasn't with him all the time like he does.
The Arabs did hate women, no doubt about it. This is one thing the prophet tried to change, and that's what this excerpt was about.
Not all of them, some of them ...so don't judge the whole community by a mistake of some bunch from them.
As for "why did the writer not mention this or that incident" -- how do you know she didn't? Have you read the whole book?
You didn't mention it on the Board so I thought that she didn't mention it. and how do you know that she did ?
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I like puzzles lol .."they" refer to the ennemies of Islam (jewish, christians, just name it).
Firstly, the author of the book is Muslim.
Secondly, Jews and Christians are not by default enemies of Islam.
You didn't mention it on the Board so I thought that she didn't mention it. and how do you know that she did ?
The book has more than 200 pages, you don't expect me to type up all of it and post it here, no? nope
How do I know? I've read the book plus the appendices which provide all sources for things that have been quoted in the text.
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Firstly, the author of the book is Muslim.
that doesn't mean that he can't be involved in a kind of a great conspiracy .
Secondly, Jews and Christians are not by default enemies of Islam.
(( ((
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
The book has more than 200 pages, you don't expect me to type up all of it and post it here, no? nope
the book based in a lie about Abu Horaira, I was just trying to see if you really read it, Abu Horaira has proved all the Sahaba and all people at the time of his existence that he was following the prophet like his shadow, and the hadith about Omar and Aisha was a lie, never the Sahaba have blamed Abu Horaira because they knew that he was with the prophet while they were working or seeking their needs. the hadith have been narrated from a liar all his ahadith are classified that he was hatered and this writer as you claimed a muslim writer by the way she is a woman and she lives where I live and I Think her ahadith about Abu Horaira, she took them from a book called " " most of the ahadith in this book are from the same liar.
How do I know? I've read the book plus the appendices which provide all sources for things that have been quoted in the text.
You read the book and you like it because the book have filled your heart by "non specific message" even the tittle showed that this woman have been beaten from his husband lol .
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I was just trying to see if you really read it,
If I say I've read it, that means I have read it. Please quit playing childish games.
by the way she is a woman
I know she is a woman. Duh! Ever heard of a man called Fatima?
I Think her ahadith about Abu Horaira, she took them from a book called " " most of the ahadith in this book are from the same liar.
What you think is irrelevant. As I said, the author meticulously lists all her sources and references in the appendices.
even the tittle showed that this woman have been beaten from his husband lol .
Am I understanding this correctly? You assume that every woman who questions misogynistic traditions or male dominance based on dubious teachings has been beaten by her husband?
Sorry, but this is just ridiculous.
Anyway ... I don't think there is any benefit in discussing a book with someone who has not read it and bases his judgement on assumptions and prejudices rather than on the actual contents. I posted this excerpt because I think it contains some interesting things. You obviously feel it is an attack on Islam because it questions and threatens your illusions about male supremacy. While your reactions were to be expected, I don't think it makes any sense to further debate the issue.
peace
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If I say I've read it, that means I have read it. Please quit playing childish games.
ok, I believe you .
I know she is a woman. Duh! Ever heard of a man called Fatima?
Yeah, it might be his last name lloll !
What you think is irrelevant. As I said, the author meticulously lists all her sources and references in the appendices.
her book based in science sociology.
Am I understanding this correctly? You assume that every woman who questions misogynistic traditions or male dominance based on dubious teachings has been beaten by her husband?
I was just kidding, but from the tittle seems that he has some issues with men.
Sorry, but this is just ridiculous.
No, it was funny.
Anyway ... I don't think there is any benefit in discussing a book with someone who has not read it and bases his judgement on assumptions and prejudices rather than on the actual contents. I posted this excerpt because I think it contains some interesting things. You obviously feel it is an attack on Islam because it questions and threatens your illusions about male supremacy. While your reactions were to be expected, I don't think it makes any sense to further debate the issue.
peacethe author lives in my country and she is like a which, her book might contain spells and curses if someone reads it. rotfl, so I don't want to be cursed.
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http//www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t236/e0527
I know her, she is from Morocco and I'm from Morocco . have you ever seen her ?
http//www.helali.net/salma/images/FatimaMernissi.jpg a which isn't? lol
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a which isn't? lol
Not sure how you define witch. To me, she looks like an attractive, cheerful lady.
I am familiar with the picture you posted. I've just used it in one of my recent projects -- designing some materials for a community of Muslim women. yes
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Not sure how you define witch. To me, she looks like an attractive, cheerful lady.
I am familiar with the picture you posted. I've just used it in one of my recent projects -- designing some materials for a community of Muslim women. yesyou know that her books are full of historical mistakes, and she got a bad critical because she just let her imagination to narrate the history, none of her work is a study. She just dreams about history and then she writes a book. I have read a criticism about her books which the they considered her writings as an imagination stories with a little bit of a true ones.
Yeah, she looks like an attractive, that's why she is unmarried.
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No one had a better imagination than Ibn Ishaq who wrote the seerah ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS after the Prophet.
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I have read a criticism about her books which the they considered her writings as an imagination stories with a little bit of a true ones.
Wow, you read a "criticism" and know everything you need to know without reading the actual book. That's amazing -- alf mabrouk. yes
On a serious note ... I would suggest you read 1736.
Yeah, she looks like an attractive, that's why she is unmarried.
Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. As for your implication that every woman who is not married must be ugly ... that says more about your attitude than about any unmarried woman, I'd say.
hmmAre you married, reformer? If not, I guess we can assume that you are not attractive, right?
peace
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Good post Layna, in reading this thread its come to me Abu Huraira is similar to St Paul, Paul changed the message of Jesus into man worship just as Abu Huraira has with Muhammeds message.
Mind your words. Sydena Abu Huraira with whom Allah is pleased has not given you all this junk material but it is Bukhari and others amd Reformer here who are attributing it to him as narrater. You do not have any book authored by him. Any person who is dead and has not left behind a book authored by him should never be subjected to criticism.
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Abu Huraira and so many lies
Abu Hurayra, came from Yemen in the seventh year of Hijra and converted to Islam. He stayed in the company of the Prophet Muhammed less than two years. He narrated more than 5000 hadiths, actually 5374 hadiths, from this less than two years company, (Compare this with the relatively few hadiths narrated by Aysha, Abu Baker, or Omar, for example, after very long company of the prophet) . Most of his narrated hadiths are called the "Aahad" hadiths, i.e. hadiths only witnessed by one person, this one person was Abu Hurayra himself. Some of the Prophets companions (Sahaba) and Aysha, the Prophet's wife, accused him of being a liar, telling lies about the prophets just to make up hadiths and gain some status. Omar Ibn Al-Khattab, the second guided Khalifa threatened Abu Hurayra to send him to exile if he does not stop telling hadiths about Muhammed, he did stop until Omar's assassination then started again. He kept telling hadiths to please the Khalifa of the Muslims then, including the time he lived in the Royal Palace of Mu"aawiyah in Syria. Abu Hurayra told his audience that he is telling them hadiths that if he ever mentioned when Omar was alive, he would be given several lashes.
Abu Jaafar Al Iskafy mentioned that the Khalifa, Mu'aawiyah, chose some of the people, including Abu Hurayra to tell fabricated stories and hadiths about Ali Ibn Abu Talib, the Prophet's cousin, to degrade him. Abu Hurayra lived in Mu'aawiyah's Royal Palace then and served him including serving his political views. He produced some of the hadiths that demean and insult Ali Ibn Abu Talib, and make him in a lower grade to Abu Baker, Omar and Othman, only for the pleasure of Mu"aawiyah.
During Mu'aawiyah's rule, many hadiths, with the help of Abu Hurayra were invented that support the view that the Imam or Khalifa, should be obeyed just like God or the messenger, contradicting the rule of the Quran that all the matters should be democratic by consultation.(Do not forget that Abu Hurayra was living in the Khalifa's Royal Palace at the time.)
Many of the hadiths that were narrated by Abu Hurayra contradict the other hadiths, including his own narrated hadiths and other people's hadiths and contradict the Quran and contradict common sense.
Abu Hurayra narrated hadiths after Kaab Al Ahbar, who was a Jewish convert who tried to explain the Quran by using the corrupted books of the Jews. He produced some of the most outrageous hadiths that is full of contradiction to the Quran, taken from false stories in the Torah.
The Islamic historians told the story of Abu Hurayra after given the governorship of Bahrain, got very rich in two years, so Omar called him back and told him "You, the enemy of Allah, you stole the money of Allah. I made you the Emir of Bahrain when you did not even have a pair of shoes, Where did you get all this money (400,000 Dirham)??" The history indicates that Omar took 10,000 Dirham from him.(Abu Hurayra admitted for only 20,000 Dirham)
Abu Hurayra was the one accused most of fabricating hadiths. Aysha, the Prophet's wife always accused him of telling inaccurate or incomplete stories and of fabricating hadiths that she never heard the prophet saying them. Abu Hurayra is well known for his prejudice against the women and the dogs. He produced some of the most insulting hadiths to Muslim women, and hadiths that call for the killing of the dogs . If we apply the rigid criteria claimed to be used by the Scholars like Bukhary and Moslem, for accepting those who narrated hadiths, Abu Hurayra will be the first one to fail the test and his hadiths will be the first to be counted among the fabrications.
Aysha and Abu Huraira at odds
In the famous book "Taa'oueel Mukhtalaf Alhadith" by Ibn Qutaiba Al-Dinory, the story of Aysha (the Prophet's wife) telling Abu Hurayra; "You tell ahadiths about the prophet Muhammed that we never heard them from him" He answered (as Bukhary reported); "You (Aysha) were busy with your mirror and make up" She (Aysha) answered him; "It is you who were busy with your stomach and hunger. Your hunger kept you busy, you were running after the people in the allies, begging them for food, and they used to avoid you and get away from your way, and finally you would come back and pass out in front of my room and the people think you were crazy and step all over you."
The number of Hadiths collected by Abu Hurayra in comparison to Aysha, Abu Baker, Umar and Ali (Taken from a book entitled Hadith Literature It's Origin, Development, & Special Features by Muhammed Zubayr Siddiqui) are
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Abu Hurayra 5374
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"Aysha Umm al-Mu"minin 2210
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Umar Ibn al-Khattab 537
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Ali Ibn Abi Talib 536
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Abu Bakr al-Siddiq 142
First number indicates rank ...second number indicates number of Ahadith given.
Compare the numbers of Hadiths given by Abu Baker by that of Abu Hurayra while keeping in mind that Abu Baker accompanied the Prophet for about 23 years, while Abu Hurayra accompanied the Prophet for less than 2 years.
http//www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_1/history_hadith_1_(P114.html
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Wow, you read a "criticism" and know everything you need to know without reading the actual book. That's amazing -- alf mabrouk. yes
James Luther Adams said
Nothing is complete and thus nothing is exempt from criticism.
Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. As for your implication that every woman who is not married must be ugly ... that says more about your attitude than about any unmarried woman, I'd say.
hmmthat says nothing, I don't pay attention to beauty , I like the woman with a brain.
Are you married, reformer? If not, I guess we can assume that you are not attractive, right?
peacewell, basically I'm 21 years old, so in our society" Morocco" this age is still considered young,so marriage is impossible (girls will not accept you because you're younger) and I guess my personality is attractive but you have to ask people around me , not me .
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I see. That's why you posted a picture of her and commented on her looks.
Yeah, you know why ? when I saw her face, I remembered the wizard of Ozz ..that's why I commented on her looks because of a memory from my childhood.
;D ;D ;D
can I know the reason of "the 3 ;D" ?