Pork & Logic
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You know what? I still can not get this pork thing. I am not sure what is the reason. But I do know that the Gospel did not emohasize it. It did emphasize eating meat offered to idols and blood.
The Koran used the term "rijz" for pork. But it also said that concerning the prophet's household
No. It uses the word (khanzeer). (Rijz) is an adjective to things unaccepted by God.
God said to Adam and spouse Do not approach this tree. No reason was given. Like you, they did not see any reason why not to approach it.
Theirs is a lesson to learn. You do not have to know, just trust God. -
But the function of the pork that is being alluded is the eating, it is not to have it around, or to make purses from it or to use without mentioning God's name, it is to eat it. It is not an inmaterial quality that we are contending with. It is to eat it, not to touch it or take it for a stroll, or whatever, to eat it. Whatever rijs it has it concerns it as food.
Salaam
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How have I compared word to word?
Salam
You compared Do not approach this tree (prohibiting approachin the tree)
to Prohibited upon you....and pig flesh (prohibiting just the meat)
And ignored prohibition of one tree among all the trees of the forest/ paradise and flesh of one animal among all the other animals, birds and fish -
How have I ignored the prohition of a tree amongst the trees?
How have I compared both prohibitions?
And how is the prohibition of pig not referred to eating it? ?To what does it refer then?
What do we have to do with the tree forbidden to Adam?
What does the prohition of carrion have to do with the tree forbidden to Adam?
Salaam
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hadiths are not really required to assign any law of God system..
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The quesion is not ha pork is prohibited to eat because he Qur'an says so, but why des the Qur'an say so.
I is nnot to make things difficult since if we are unable to feed us otherwise it is allowed, bu it is a matter of diet just as dead animals is forbidden. There are reasons to forbid dead animals which are dietary, and that is also the case for pork. People usually do no die because of etig pork, but people usually do o die because of eating many things that are not pork and which anyway are not part of a healthy diet. There is no mistery in it. You may eat pork for a while and in he long run, if it is just for a while, nothing too bad will happen, but as diet for life it is what the Qur'an says by way of explanation rijs concerning the things prohibited, tha is, dead animmals, blood sprung forth and the meat of the pork.
his rijs is translated differrently according to the context. In te context of the things prohibited for food, it is clearly related o its toxicity.
It is indee?d impurity, but purity in qura'nic terms has nohinnng to do with a riualistic uderstanding, but with the quality of the things iself for the purpose in question.
Dead animals, blood and pork are not immpure to look at for instance or to bury or to go into the cycle of the soil, but they are impure to eat, that is, they bring into the body something that is not good for its purpose.
As to the details, I am sure there have been many threads in this very forum where all of them have been gone through. I personlly know that doctors forbid it much too often in he diet even in those socieies where diet is very pork oriented.
Salaam
Salaam
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Got this from the net
The very name of this foul animal contains an allusion to the prohibition of its flesh. In the Arabic language it is called ?khinzir,? which is a combination of ?khinz,? meaning ?very foul,? and ?ara,? meaning ?I see.? So the Arabic word for swine ? ?khinzir? ? means, ?I see it very foul.? In India the swine is known by the Hindu name ?su?ar,? which is pronounced like the English word ?sewer.?
The flesh of swine has been proven to be injurious, not only to man?s physical health, but to his moral and spiritual health as well. The swine eats filth and takes delight in living in dirty places. It has indecent habits and possesses the evil trait of sex-perversion. Tapeworms, scrofula, cancer and encysted trichina (i.e., trichinosis) are known to be prevalent among pork-eating people.
I personally have eaten pork and it does taste like meat that is going to or gone rotten. I had the unfortunate experience of severe food poisoning due to eating rotten meat - sometimes we eat left overs without knowing the meat inside has gone bad - in this instance it was beef.
My conclusion is dead animals/carrion are prohibited simply because the meat is rotten or bad for us. Similarly meat of khinzir are also rotten or bad for us - to me pork does taste bad - yuck!
But the prohibition is just from eating the meat and NOT touching goods made from pig skin - maybe touching bag from pig skin will make you wanting to eat pork???
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Peace all,
Khinzir actually means those animals with canine teeth and they are scavengers. These includes, the cat family, dog family and those animals that have canine teeth including pigs!
Do you know that pigs are also carnivorous and scavengers?
http//www.nydailynews.com/news/national/hungry-hogs-eat-oregon-farmer-article-1.1172448
peace
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Pigs, like dogs, like, human are omnnivorous, and if a human accidnetally falls into their manger, they eat it, even if the person belong to he family tha keeps he pig.
Pigs have many offspring of a go, whereas cows, sheep, goats, camels have only one or rarely two.and indeed they are vegetarians.
It cannot be said that it deseres i be part of a healthy diet, and yousee hat old people drop pork, pregnant women too, it is o much of a burden on the bodily functions.
Salaam
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the question should be like this...
why God create pig if its not useful in anyway.. eating riding ... etc?
actually the pigs are the filters of earth... its the only animal that have a system that digest the things which usually not get digested by anyoother means.. on other words the filters of cleanniess for the earth...
in old times people did not use toilets and when they leave pigs there pigs eat all that grababge and shit from there...
moreover why pig is haram.. becuase its the creation of dirt , the pig is the only animal that inivtes his mates to have sex with his partner.. due to the nature of its charactersitics...
pig even dnt care to have sex with the one who give birth to him?
a study of behaviour proved that when u eat a meat of something the characterstics of that animal may affect you.. in short or long term..
the grazing animals like, cow, goat, deer, camels are peaceful animals so no harm eating them and they dnt even consume blood and other animal meat... their nature is beautiful...
now question is this why dnt people eat tiger lions , wolfs, bear... ? quran did not make it haram, but there is a difference that they are not grazing animals...
if we look around us... everywhere.. the take ways , shops , apart from pig there is alwasy the meat which is used by every religion even who dnt beleive in quran.. like beef, lamb , chicken...fish
a pig is just a catagory should not be there becoz even in christianity and judism its not considered as a favorable thing to eat...
anyway scientifically its proven the pig meat can cause you lot of diseases... and some people tell the pigs are clean who raised in farms.. so they consume it...
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The reason the pig is not goodly for consumption is because its meat is very similar to that of man. The tissue has a high percentage of similarity and it would be near cannibalism to eat that. For us this meat is slow to digest and not very healthy compared to other meat. The animal does not graze and eats basically anything, even feces.
Quran says it is not goodly to eat it nor meat from animals which have died on their own. It does not say forbidden. It is clearly a recommendation. Haram means sanctified/blessed/goodly and an'ema (ا means "it is not" being a compound of and .
Modern day keeping of animals reduces the risks with consumption of pig meat and people could surely live to old age, but nevertheless the meat is indeed not very suited for humans. I do personally not eat it, but I also eat very reduced amounts of other red meats too.
This was the logic behind no pork.
Be well
Amenuel -
Quran says it is not goodly to eat it nor meat from animals which have died on their own.
It does not say forbidden. It is clearly a recommendation.
Haram means sanctified/blessed/goodly and an'ema (ا means "it is not" being a compound of and .
Salaam/Peace MoF,
"Haram/Harrama" means "forbidden,"
as we clearly see it here===================
33- Say My LORD has absolutely forbidden (=Arabic innama harrama)all lewd action, what is obvious from them and what is subtle,
and sin, aggression without cause,
your setting up partners with AL-LAH that were never authorized by HIM,
and saying about AL-LAH what you do not know.173- HE has absolutely forbidden (=Arabic innama harrama) for you
what is already dead,
the blood,
the meat of pig,
and what was dedicated to other than AL-LAH.But whoever finds himself/herself forced out of need and without disobedience or animosity,
(only in this case) there is no sin upon him/her. For AL-LAH is Forgiving, Merciful.QURAN TESTAMENT 7/33 = 2/173
Remain in peace/salaam.
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if haram is used without ,,, ina ma
then haram mean blessed, goodly/ santified...
lets fit it in the word of haram as per MOF in this verse. without ina ma just for experiment...
423 Forbidden for you are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your fathers' sisters, your mothers' sisters, the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, secterian translation
423 blessed, goodly/ santified... for you are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your fathers' sisters, your mothers' sisters, the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, MOF translation
brickwall
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if haram is used without ,,, ina ma
then haram mean blessed, goodly/ santified...
lets fit it in the word of haram as per MOF in this verse. without ina ma just for experiment...
423 Forbidden for you are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your fathers' sisters, your mothers' sisters, the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, secterian translation
423 blessed, goodly/ santified... for you are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your fathers' sisters, your mothers' sisters, the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, MOF translation
brickwall
423 does not have and are you sure about what is the subject of the context?
It could also be what is goodly/sanctified for you in terms of socializing with. Most translations infer that it is marriage it speaks of, but the word nikkah does not occur there. And even then the primary meaning of nikkah is "tie a knot with" which could mean to have a relationship with which is not sexual and bonding in that regard. As far as I am concerned bonding goes by the word zawaje . This is also the word used to refer to marriage, in real Arabic. Make sure to read up on it and compare. It means to bond and be a companion in a union.
The translations overall are awfully weak, so do not be surprised if the whole context speaks of something else.
The word haram does not mean both sanctified and forbidden at the same time. You have to choose one meaning.
Ancient rulers called their trophy room harem for the same reason for they considered it to be sanctified for them.
So spare your brickwalls for yourself for you might need it later. You might discover your ancient clerics did not know so much.
If you get close to someone who is a stranger and the opposite sex there is a possibility that you build up an attraction to them, but less likely if it is your sibling's daughter unless you are a pervert.
Be well
Amenuel -
The translations overall are awfully weak, so do not be surprised if the whole context speaks of something else.
so your translations are 100 % correct... i m surprised... bravo its something like... if i tell to english man how to speak english...
The word haram does not mean both sanctified and forbidden at the same time. You have to choose one meaning.
choose the best answer ,,, no mean 1 dnt ,2 not, 3 negetive, 4 yes... i will choose no mean yes rotfl
Ancient rulers called their trophy room harem for the same reason for they considered it to be sanctified for them.
you was present there i think... through the process of incranation and i think your memory come back after some sudden shock... i can beleive that its not a big deal...
So spare your brickwalls for yourself for you might need it later. You might discover your ancient clerics did not know so much.
thanx for advice... but i think i have better things to do... i try to get my memory back like you get it back.. in your previous life span you must be a language expert isnt it... lol
If you get close to someone who is a stranger and the opposite sex there is a possibility that you build up an attraction to them, but less likely if it is your sibling's daughter unless you are a pervert.
BOLD rotfl rotfl rotfl
actually i have no comments becoz the reply will make you jump out from your seat and it will become a personal attack , so better i will not reply ... i dnt want to b personal..
in all of it i just fit the meanings of your provided interpreation and i feel you take it on you so hard..... chill out brother..
either you dnt use your mind while interpreting or you are mocking quran,, thinking that the fool is written on the forehead of everybody... just fit this your provided interprretation on all the occasions of quran and see where your claim is standing...
peace..
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@ MOF
i have lot of examples and verses from quran in which the provided interpretation from MOF regarding haram is not really getting fit.. any way here is another example exactly regarding the pig..there is clearly no ina ma anywhere
53 Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah
mof translation
blesses/goodly /santify to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah
Quran says it is not goodly to eat it nor meat from animals which have died on their own. It does not say forbidden. It is clearly a recommendation. Haram means sanctified/blessed/goodly and an'ema (ا means "it is not" being a compound of and .
now you cannot choose options here ... or you can.. hmm
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@ MOF
i have lot of examples and verses from quran in which the provided interpretation from MOF regarding haram is not really getting fit.. any way here is another example exactly regarding the pig..there is clearly no ina ma anywhere
53 Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah
mof translation
blesses/goodly /santify to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah
Quran says it is not goodly to eat it nor meat from animals which have died on their own. It does not say forbidden. It is clearly a recommendation. Haram means sanctified/blessed/goodly and an'ema (ا means "it is not" being a compound of and .
now you cannot choose options here ... or you can.. hmm
I can choose options of course. I can render the whole translation absurd and not correct. The probability that the context speaks of something else is high.
It is improbable that a word, i.e. haram, means two completely opposite things depending on context, this would be absurd. Words do not work that way except to someone who likes to play around with interpretations.
Take a look at the passage of which you speak
Where do you find "dead animals"? It is a playful inference. The only the passage mentions about there is lifelessness (substantive).
The passage begins by saying, and which is completely related to the previous passage which is not meant to separate the two clauses since the T on haramet is supposed to carry the predicate from a subject related to the context, is "... is good for your lifelessness and persistence and..." To be able to understand the context you need to first decipher the previous verse properly from start to finish, i.e. not like the pretenders in medieval times.
Dal-Waw-Miim (Dal-Alif-Miim) = To continue, endure, persist, remain, persevere, last, stand still, keep alive.
Above is the root of which is also used in Adam's name and is the purposeful name his ascendants have, i.e. children of Adam.
Summary is that the haramet in the sentence does most probably refer to sanctified or goodly still, but the passage does not speak of dead animals or blood. There is no blood mention or "dead animals" in there. Get real for God's sake. Do you attempt to try the similar interpretation acrobatics as the past people?
So lifelessness is forbidden according to you? How easy is it to forbid lifelessness when the majority of humans on Earth are in fact lifeless?
Be well
Amenuel