Pork & Logic

Emil

With science you can prove anything bad or good. I can scientifically prove that potato chips gives us cancer

I haven't got a clue why pork is forbidden. Frankly, it doesnt matter so much to me. It's forbidden and I don't eat it.

However, the only "scientific" logical explanation I can find is population control. The pig is very easy to raise and farm, much more so than lamb or beef or poultry. Therefore pork is one major contributor why the human population has literally exploded in the last 200 or so years. I am not sure but I am not entirely refusing the thought that Allah does not find a population of anything grow so rapidly particulary good for His creation earth.

Another thing, correct me if I am wrong, but why don?t the jews eat pork? I heard is becaused they think the pig is possessed. I also remember this biblical passage where prophet Jesus healed a crazy man by removing his craziness and threw it into a herd of pigs (is a group of pigs a herd?) who turned crazy themselves and ran into a lake and drowned.

huruf

Huruf,

if you are responding to my post, I am not saying that the way the animal is killed applies to pigs. These are examples to refute the health factor in prohibition. God gave us brains. He did not prohibit eating raw liver or raw fish, for example. Salt and fat are very harmful and so is red meat, but they are not prohibited. Bacteria and parasites in pork or any meat are destroyed by cooking fire, even preys caught by a lion. Life expectancy in the West is much higher than that in Muslim's countries. If it was for health reason, they should be absolutely prohibited, but they are not if you have hardly another choice, so you can eat them.

And there are places where they eat pig and still are faring worse than mny muslim countries. Pork ha to do with health, but of course, obviously, evidently, manifestly is not the only thing that has to do with health. eating in the first place is healthy. When you do not eat, you get sick. In spite of that the Qur'an does not forbid not eating.

As I said, pork is the only animal which is forbidden and is common staple in the world, rat may be eaten too, and is not good, but it is not forbidden specifically, because nobody, for the moment, is going to set up a rat farm.

What I said about patients being told by doctors in a country where pork is wholesale, that they abstain from pork, is for some reaosn, and so pregnant women and babies. I have never heard of any doctor forbidding rabbit, or chicken.

And what somebody said here about pigs having the same kind of meat has humans, also that is true.

Salt is not bad, it is indispensable. Of course in everything one can comit excess, but that would apply to everything. There are things where the excess is reached before than in others.

Metabolisation of pig takes six months, far far more than beef or lamb and far far far more than chicken.

So what do you understand by rijs? Ritual impurity as far as I can understand is excluded. You would just have to sea the name of God to eat it. And it is not to discipline us, as some people say, because rijs does not concern dicipline in that sense. So then what? Even though it is oh so very healthy it is rijs?

Salaam

mmkhan

if you are responding to my post, I am not saying that the way the animal is killed applies to pigs. These are examples to refute the health factor in prohibition. God gave us brains. He did not prohibit eating raw liver or raw fish, for example. Salt and fat are very harmful and so is red meat, but they are not prohibited. Bacteria and parasites in pork or any meat are destroyed by cooking fire, even preys caught by a lion. Life expectancy in the West is much higher than that in Muslim's countries. If it was for health reason, they should be absolutely prohibited, but they are not if you have hardly another choice, so you can eat them.

Salaam sister,

How can understand 2236 if RED MEAT is harmful... I mean if it is VERY harmful?

2236

How do we understand "Budna" here? In them is good for YOU .

Please share your understanding with us.

May Allah increase us all in knowledge and guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan

Sorry for off-topic!

Samia

Salaam sister,

How can understand 2236 if RED MEAT is harmful... I mean if it is VERY harmful?

2236

How do we understand "Budna" here? In them is good for YOU .

Please share your understanding with us.

May Allah increase us all in knowledge and guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan

Sorry for off-topic!

So? Did I say it is prohibited? Did I say it is better not to eat meat? What am alluding at is that health is not a reason for prohibition. If we are speaking health at the scale of pork meat, red meat is also harmful. Cow's madness disease is an example.
But with regard to this verse it seems that you think of "kheir" only as resulting from eating it and did not pay attention to its context. Hajj is mainly to feed the poor, and this is the kheir. Kheir in the qur'aan is often linked to charity.

mmkhan

So? Did I say it is prohibited? Did I say it is better not to eat meat? What am alluding at is that health is not a reason for prohibition. If we are speaking health at the scale of pork meat, red meat is also harmful. Cow's madness disease is an example.
But with regard to this verse it seems that you think of "kheir" only as resulting from eating it and did not pay attention to its context. Hajj is mainly to feed the poor, and this is the kheir. Kheir in the qur'aan is often linked to charity.

Salaam sister,

I understood what you said, but what I wanted to say is "red meat" cannot be harmful when it is said "Khair".

I agree with you 100% on khair that it is not only referring to eating it, but still eating is also included in it that clearly means that eating red meat is also khair for us, isn't it? Because I don't find any aayat going against red meat.

For example, birds are not mentioned in AlQuraan for eating here in this life, if someone say that birds are harmful to eat then it supports AlQuraan unlike red meat.

I hope you understand what I am trying to say, inshaAllah.

May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan

Samia

Salaam sister,

I understood what you said, but what I wanted to say is "red meat" cannot be harmful when it is said "Khair".

Salaam...
Funnily enough, I am forbidden from eating red meat. High cholesterol '(

mmkhan

Salaam...
Funnily enough, I am forbidden from eating red meat. High cholesterol '(

Salaam sister,

I am sorry to disagree with you here sister as I believe very strongly for what I understand from AlQuraan until Allah show me something else, inshaAllah.

May Allah protect you and give you very good health by His grace pr
Mohammed M. Khan

Samia

Salaam sister,

I am sorry to disagree with you here sister as I believe very strongly for what I understand from AlQuraan until Allah show me something else, inshaAllah.

May Allah protect you and give you very good health by His grace pr
Mohammed M. Khan

Disagree with me in what, exactly? That I have high cholesterol or that I am obeying the instructions of my doctor?!
Well, get me from the qur'aan a verse that describes any food as kheir.

GROAN

For those who may be tempted to eat pig's meat here is a description of the animal that may dampen your desire. a quote "pork-loving friend eat, just clamber over into the reeking sty, and take a nearer view of the animal that is destined to delight the palates of some of your friends, perhaps your own. Make him straighten out his fore legs. Now observe closely. Do you see the open sore or issue, a few inches above his foot on the inner side?

Do you say it is a mere accidental abrasion? Find the same on the other leg; it is rather a wise and wonderful provision of nature. Grasp the leg high up and press downward. Now you see its utility, as a mass of corruption pours out. That opening is the outlet of a sewer. Yes, a scrofulous sewer; and hence the offensive, ichorous matter which discharges from it. Should you fill a syringe with mercury or some colored injecting fluid, and drive the contents into this same opening, you would be able to trace all through the body of the animal little pipes communicating with it.
nope
Read it here http//www.giveshare.org/Health/porkeatdanger.html

Bigmo

With science you can prove anything bad or good. I can scientifically prove that potato chips gives us cancer

I haven't got a clue why pork is forbidden. Frankly, it doesnt matter so much to me. It's forbidden and I don't eat it.

However, the only "scientific" logical explanation I can find is population control. The pig is very easy to raise and farm, much more so than lamb or beef or poultry. Therefore pork is one major contributor why the human population has literally exploded in the last 200 or so years. I am not sure but I am not entirely refusing the thought that Allah does not find a population of anything grow so rapidly particulary good for His creation earth.

Another thing, correct me if I am wrong, but why don?t the jews eat pork? I heard is becaused they think the pig is possessed. I also remember this biblical passage where prophet Jesus healed a crazy man by removing his craziness and threw it into a herd of pigs (is a group of pigs a herd?) who turned crazy themselves and ran into a lake and drowned.

The Bible and eating pork

http//www.minuteswithmessiah.com/question/pork2.html

huruf

The Qur'an says to eat animals that feed on plants and prohibits pork because it is rijz.

Meaning according to PRL

to rumble. rujz/rijz - pollution/filth, calamity, evil kind of punishment, wrath, impurity, plague, scourge, pestilence, abomination, sin, iniquity, idolatry, disease in the hinder part of camels, deed deserving punishment.

Both together, and bearing inmind, everything that I have learnt about medicine and nutrition, tell me that it is a health measure. It is not sure that if you eat prok you are going to die poisoned, but just as it is not guranteed that you are not going to die poisoned if you eat rat.

About red meat I doubt very much you have to eat much in excess for that or have a particular problem.

And what happens with pork is that in fact when it is part of the diet it is for the whole life and in in considerable amounts. It is not like if you eat once a year.

If it is not a question of health -and I am sure it is- why is it not good then, why is it rijz, and why not eat animals which eat other animals?

Salaam

GROAN

The Torah talks about why Swine is forbidden to eat, although it makes an exception from the rule that animals with cloven hoof (as swine have) are kosher. The explanation is that the swine, unlike the cow for instance does not 'chew the cud' (Deuteronomy) i.e. does not regurgitate the food. Does anybody know the significance of chewing the cud; does it perhaps reduce the amount of toxins absorbed by the body? ! hmm

Bigmo

The Torah talks about why Swine is forbidden to eat, although it makes an exception from the rule that animals with cloven hoof (as swine have) are kosher. The explanation is that the swine, unlike the cow for instance does not 'chew the cud' (Deuteronomy) i.e. does not regurgitate the food. Does anybody know the significance of chewing the cud; does it perhaps reduce the amount of toxins absorbed by the body? ! hmm

Eating pork is something of a mystery. Its one of the prohibitions I have not figured out. But what is interesting is that the Gospel did not emphasize that but the Koran did. One person once told me that Pork needs higher temperatures to cook than other meats.

Its myoglobin content is lower than that of beef, but much higher than that of chicken. The USDA treats pork as a red meat. Pork is very high in thiamin (vitamin B1). Pork with its fat trimmed is leaner than the meat of most domesticated animals, but is still high in cholesterol and saturated fat.

In 1987 the U.S. National Pork Board began an advertising campaign to position pork as "the other white meat" ? due to a public perception of chicken and turkey (white meat) as healthier than red meat. The campaign was highly successful and resulted in 87% of consumers identifying pork with the slogan. The board retired the slogan on March 4, 2011.

Undercooked or untreated pork may harbour pathogens, or it can be recontaminated after cooking. In one instance, the FSIS detected Listeria monocytogenes in 460 lbs of Polidori brand fully cooked pork sausage crumbles. The FSIS has previously stated Listeria and other microorganisms will be "destroyed by proper handling and thorough cooking to an internal temperature of 160 ?F (71 ?C)" and that other microorganisms, such as E. coli, Salmonella, and Staphylococcus aureus can be found in inadequately cooked pork, poultry, and other meats. The FSIS currently recommends cooking ground pork to 160 ?F (71 ?C) and whole cuts to 145 ?F (63 ?C) followed by a 3 minute rest.

The pig is the carrier of various helminths, such as roundworms, pinworms, hookworms, etc. One of the most dangerous and common is Taenia solium, a type of tapeworm. Tapeworms may transplant to the intestines of humans, as well, when they consume untreated or undercooked meat from pigs or other animals. If the infection is not treated, it can be fatal.

Although not a common cause of illness, Yersinia enterocolitica ? which causes gastroenteritis ? is present in various foods, but is most frequently caused by eating pork and can grow in refrigerated conditions. The bacteria can be killed by heat. Nearly all outbreaks in the US have been traced to pork.

Pork may be the reservoir responsible for sporadic, locally acquired cases of acute hepatitis E (HEV) reported in regions with relatively mild climates. It has been found to transmit between swine and humans.

Vacuum packed pork loin filletsTrichinosis, also called trichinellosis, or trichiniasis, is a parasitic disease caused by eating raw or undercooked pork infected with the larvae of a species of roundworm Trichinella spiralis, commonly called the trichina worm. Infection was once very common, but is now rare in the developed world. From 2002 to 2007, an annual average of 11 cases per year were reported in the United States; the majority were from consuming wild game or the source was unknown. The number of cases has decreased because of legislation prohibiting the feeding of raw meat garbage to hogs, increased commercial and home freezing of pork, and the public awareness of the danger of eating raw or undercooked pork or wild game products.

Religious restrictions on the consumption of porkMain article Religious restrictions on the consumption of pork
JudaismPig's meat, including pork, is one of the most well known examples of non kosher food. This prohibition is based on Leviticus chapter 11 and Deuteronomy chapter 14

Leviticus 112-4, 7-8

"These are the creatures that you may eat from among all the animals that are upon the land. Everything that possesses a split hoof, which is fully cloven, and that brings up its cud -- this you may eat. But this is what you shall not eat from what brings up its cud or possesses split hooves - the camel, because it brings up its cud but does not possess split hooves...and the pig, because it has split hooves that are completely cloven, but it does not bring up its cud -- it is impure to you and from its flesh you may not eat."
Deuteronomy 148

"And the pig, because it possesses split hooves and does not bring up its cud -- from its flesh you may not eat."
As indicated by the biblical verses, Jews may not consume any land animal that does not possess both traits.

The animal must possess completely split hooves;
The animal must bring up its cud.

IslamPork is prohibited by the Islamic dietary laws. Throughout the Islamic world many countries severely restrict the importation or consumption of pork products. Examples are Iran, Mauritania, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Pakistan and Maldives (though conversely, the pig is the most widely reared livestock in Muslim-majority Malaysia). The Qur'anic basis for the Islamic prohibition of pork can be found in suras 2173, 53, 560, 6145 and 16115.

Chapter (Sura) 2 - Verse (Ayat) 173 Al-Baqara (The Cow)

"He has forbidden you only the Maitah (dead animals), and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that which is slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than God (or has been slaughtered for idols). But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, then there is no sin on him. Truly, God is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful."

Other religions and culturesSeventh-day Adventists, Rastafarians, and members of the Ethiopian Orthodox church also do not eat pork. Scottish pork taboo was Donald Alexander Mackenzie's phrase for discussing an aversion to pork amongst Scots, particularly Highlanders, which he believed stemmed from an ancient taboo. Several writers who confirm that there was a prejudice against pork, or a superstitious attitude toward pigs, do not see it in terms of a taboo related to an ancient cult. Any prejudice is generally agreed to have disappeared by 1800.

Pork meat and cannibalismDuring an interview in 2007, the notorious German cannibal Armin Meiwes said, "The flesh tastes like pork, a little bit more bitter, stronger. It tastes quite good."

About 3% of piglet mortality is related to cannibalism. This brings up the danger of prion development when eating pork. This chance already is slightly increased because of the high tissue similarity of pork and human.

Disease in porkPork, usually if undercooked, is also known to carry some life-threatening diseases such as pork tapeworm and trichinosis. Scholars recently have suggested that some of the stigma placed on pork by Islam and Judaism might stem, in part, from ancient times when pork would be the carrier of disease

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork

It could be for health reasons. Maybe.

Samia

The Qur'an says to eat animals that feed on plants

Are you sure? confused
Then chicken must be haram because they dig up worms from the ground. And fish eat each other and even human flesh.

GROAN

Here's an article from the Guardian on the taste of human flesh voodoo eat wow

""What does human meat taste like?After a hoax in which a German restaurant appeared willing to serve spare body parts as gourmet meals, I tackle the burning question of the day what does human flesh taste like?
Recent reports suggested that a German restaurant was looking for diners willing to donate body parts that it said it would turn into gourmet meals - that annoying spare finger or testicle that you've been lugging around all these years, for example. Although exposed this week as a publicity stunt, many people (well, me) are curious to know what human would actually taste like. So in the spirit of public service, I tried to find out.

One company supposedly started selling a "Healthy Human Flesh Alternative" based on Tofu - Hufu - back in 2005. They described the taste of their dubious product as follows "If you've never had human flesh before, think of the taste and texture of beef, except a little sweeter in taste and a little softer in texture. Contrary to popular belief, people do not taste like pork or chicken."

Unfortunately it turned out to be a spoof, so "sweet soft beef" is a dubious claim at best, and it certainly flies in the face of the overwhelming "pork" consensus that appears from a Google search on the subject. If we want to get the true flavour of cannibalism, we need to find out from people who have actually tasted human flesh.

Of course, there is one form of human meat that's considered just about acceptable to eat. Many people choose to eat the placenta after childbirth, a practice known as "placentophagy". To prepare it, you need to remove the umbilical cord and membrane, and then treat it in a similar fashion to liver, which according to Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall is roughly what the result tastes like. You can chop it up and fry it, or mince it to make quite a rich Bolognese. That's all very lovely, as you can see from the video below, but like the liver the placenta probably isn't that representative of the general taste of human flesh.

Watch a man cooking his wife's placenta. Or don't. Similarly unhelpful is the opinion of a cute little robot developed by NEC System technologies and Mie University. The "electromechanical sommelier", is "capable of identifying wines, cheeses, meats and hors d'oeuvres." On tasting the hands of human reporters, it identified one as bacon and another as prosciutto. We're homing in on pork again here, but unfortunately the reporters didn't bother to skin and cook their hands before placing them in the robot's jaws.

What we need are some proper cannibals, and where better to start than one of Germany's most infamous citizens, the cannibal Armin Meiwes. Having eaten an estimated 20kg of his victim, Meiwes is something of an expert on the subject, and in an interview from his prison cell he was more than happy to explain the taste "The flesh tastes like pork, a little bit more bitter, stronger. It tastes quite good."

Does his opinion tally with the experiences of other Western cannibals? After a bit more searching I found the case of William Buehler Seabrook, a journalist with the New York Times who traveled extensively in West Africa nearly a century ago. Fascinated with the concept of cannibalism, he persuaded a medical intern at the Sorbonne (the University of Paris) to give him a chunk of human meat from the body of a healthy man killed in an accident, which he cooked and ate, describing is as follows

"It was like good, fully developed veal, not young, but not yet beef. It was very definitely like that, and it was not like any other meat I had ever tasted. It was so nearly like good, fully developed veal that I think no person with a palate of ordinary, normal sensitiveness could distinguish it from veal. It was mild, good meat with no other sharply defined or highly characteristic taste such as for instance, goat, high game, and pork have."

So we have one for pork, one for veal. Clearly a sample size of two isn't enough - we need more people. And here's where we descend into the really grim part it turns out that many people may have eaten human flesh unintentionally.

I'll start with infamous Pole Karl Denke, "a devout, peaceful, generally respected citizen of Zibice" who "turned out to be a cannibal who killed 40 people before his arrest (and immediate suicide) in 1924. He pickled their flesh in jars and sold it on the Wrocaw market as 'pork'."

The same tactic was allegedly employed by Fritz Haarmann, a German who killed at least 24 people in Hanover, generally male prostitutes whose throats he bit while sodomising them (yes, I've been trying to work that one out too). Rumours suggest he too sold his victims as pork on the black market, before his execution by beheading in 1925.

Another German serial killer, Karl Grossman was arrested in 1921 having enthusiastically murdered his way through the Great War. Grossman (no relation) sold the meat from the estimated 50 women he killed on the black market, and even ran a hot dog stand where he offloaded the flesh, throwing the inedible remnants in a nearby river.

Ultimately, without actually eating some of the stuff ourselves, all we have are the subjective evaluations of a collection of murderers who may not be the most reliable of witnesses. But there is a certain consistency here - certainly the cannibals themselves seem to have generally considered it closer to pork, and indeed close enough that they were happy to label it as such when selling it to unfortunate members of the public through the meat markets and hot dog stands of 1920s Germany and Poland.

So unless somebody has any further evidence, the official opinion of this blog is that human flesh tastes a bit like pork. Of course, to paraphrase Eddie Izzard, that means that pork tastes of human. & tempt

huruf

Are you sure? confused
Then chicken must be haram because they dig up worms from the ground. And fish eat each other and even human flesh.

four legged animals

See 5.1 Sahih International O you who have believed, fulfill contracts. Lawful for you are the animals of grazing livestock except for that which is recited to you - hunting not being permitted while you are in the state of i?ram. Indeed, Allah ordains what He intends.

Salaam

Samia

four legged animals

See 5.1 Sahih International O you who have believed, fulfill contracts. Lawful for you are the animals of grazing livestock except for that which is recited to you - hunting not being permitted while you are in the state of i?ram. Indeed, Allah ordains what He intends.

Salaam

This verse speaks about what is allowed during the restricted months. During these months hunting is not allowed, so they can only eat tamed animals without violating the restricted months rule. Apart from the restricted months, this verse applies

Say "I find not in the message received by me by inspiration any (meat) forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine,- for it is an abomination - or, what is impious, (meat) on which a name has been invoked, other than Allah's". But (even so), if a person is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- thy Lord is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (6145)

huruf