Peacemaking and Peacemakers in the Great Reading
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Hi all,
can someone explain the following
in arabic grammar, everyone seem to say ISLAM come from verb ASLAMA 4th form, aslama means "to give up", "to surrender" then ISLAM is masdar and means submission.
BUT
When I look to the verb forms I see
1
2
or 34
5
6
7
8- 9
10
masdar form 4 of root FA3ALA is IF3AAL,
if I replace FA3ALA by SALAMA I get ISLAAM
so islam is the masdar of the 4th form of root SIN-LAM-MIMis it correct or am I wrong????????? Please help!!!
- 9
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Peace Herbman,
can someone explain the following
in arabic grammar, everyone seem to say ISLAM come from verb ASLAMA 4th form, aslama means "to give up", "to surrender" then ISLAM is masdar and means submission.
BUT
When I look to the verb forms I see1
2
or 3
4
5
6
7
8- 9
10
masdar form 4 of root FA3ALA is IF3AAL,
if I replace FA3ALA by SALAMA I get ISLAAM
so islam is the masdar of the 4th form of root SIN-LAM-MIM
is it correct or am I wrong????????? Please help!!!
You are correct that ISLAM is the 4th form of the root SLM. However, you are wrong that ASLaMa means "to give up" or "to surrender".
You have wrongly assigned a meaning associated with the 2nd form to the 4th form.
The 2nd form whose verb takes a Shadda on the letter "3in" as in verb form Fa33aL has a Masdar of TaF3IL and not IF3AL.
2
Examples of this include
and
and
in Mazhar's example (notice the Shadda on the letter "Lam", which doesn't exist in /MuSLiM)The fourth form ASLaM, ISLAM relationship with SaLAM (peace) is that SaLAM (peace) is the "name of its Masdar". The only reason grammarians call SaLAM the "name of its Masdar" and not its "Masdar" is that it has less number of letters than the verb (it is missing the initial Alif).
Here are some examples
Masdar
Name of Masdar
Masdar
Name of Masdar
By the same token, Masdar
Name of Masdar
Here is the grammarians? definition of the Name of the Masdar
It is what EQUATES the Masdar in the indication of the outcome
So by definition, the Masdar ISLAM indicates the outcome as the Name of the Masdar SaLAM (peace). So the outcome of ISLAM is SaLAM (peace). In other words, apart from cultural and religious biases, purely from a linguistic point of view according to the rules of grammar ISLAM literally means peacemaking.
Peace,
Ayman
- 9
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The fourth form ASLaM, ISLAM relationship with SaLAM (peace) is that SaLAM (peace) is the "name of its Masdar". The only reason grammarians call SaLAM the "name of its Masdar" and not its "Masdar" is that it has less number of letters than the verb (it is missing the initial Alif).
There seems some confusion.
is the Verbal noun of -
while is verbal noun on pattern -Form-IV. Verbs -
purely from a linguistic point of view according to the rules of grammar ISLAM literally means peacemaking.
Who can accept this?
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There seems some confusion.
is the Verbal noun of -
while is verbal noun on pattern -Form-IV. Verbs -The confusion seems to be the ignorance of the difference between Masdar and Name of Masdar. The Masdar of form II (TaSLIM) has the meaning of surrendering/giving in. Confusion is to want to instead apply this meaning to forms IV and/or I. When "salam" is used with Form IV it is the Name of the Masdar as in .
Also, both AND are the verbal nouns of - and not just . In this case, they both have the same meaning of "being whole/intact/free of harm" and not the meaning of "peace".
Who can accept this?
Let?s see
whoever surrendered his face to Allah ? doesn?t make much sense and form II / should be used to better give this meaning.
whoever made his direction peaceful to/for the god ? makes sense and applies the standard form IV meaning.Peace,
Ayman
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Peace to all,
Thanks Mazhar, Ayman and someone.
Yes it is (was) quiet confuse and still need to re-read everything to put every thing in place.
Your help is really appreciated.
Thanks
I post this table for future reference
Based on this table,
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| 1 -
| 2
| 3 or
| 4
| 5
| 6
| 7
| 8
| - 9
| 10
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The confusion seems to be the ignorance of the difference between Masdar and Name of Masdar. The Masdar of form II (TaSLIM) has the meaning of surrendering/giving in. Confusion is to want to instead apply this meaning to forms IV and/or I. When "salam" is used with Form IV it is the Name of the Masdar as in .
Also, both AND are the verbal nouns of - and not just . In this case, they both have the same meaning of "being whole/intact/free of harm" and not the meaning of "peace".
Let?s see
whoever surrendered his face to Allah ? doesn?t make much sense and form II / should be used to better give this meaning.
whoever made his direction peaceful to/for the god ? makes sense and applies the standard form IV meaning.Peace,
Ayman
A deliberate journey from simple confusion to compunded confusion merely to adhere to the thought once conceived.
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Peace Herbman,
Thanks Mazhar, Ayman and someone.
Yes it is (was) quiet confuse and still need to re-read everything to put every thing in place.
Your help is really appreciated.The problem is with confusing forms II and IV. Form II carries the meaning of surrender. If this was the intended primary meaning then the god would have said
instead of
Not knowing the difference between Forms II and IV is why some people confuse in 271 with (without a medial Shadda) as we saw above.
The primary meaning of the Masdar SaLAM// is "freedom of harm" and "peace" is implied as a meaning.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Herbman,
The problem is with confusing forms II and IV. Form II carries the meaning of surrender. If this was the intended primary meaning then the god would have said
instead of
Not knowing the difference between Forms II and IV is why some people confuse in 271 with (without a medial Shadda) as we saw above.
The primary meaning of the Masdar SaLAM// is "freedom of harm" and "peace" is implied as a meaning.
Peace,
Ayman
Things seems to have been reversed.
He was safe
He made safe; he greeted.
He surrendered, became subservient, allegiant; and nature of surrender is evident from the meanings of Root, pure and absolute, void of any reservation.
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Things seems to have been reversed.
He was safe
He made safe; he greeted.He surrendered, became subservient, allegiant; and nature of surrender is evident from the meanings of Root, pure and absolute, void of any reservation.
004.065
YUSUFALI But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.
PICKTHAL But nay, by thy Lord, they will not believe (in truth) until they make thee judge of what is in dispute between them and find within themselves no dislike of that which thou decidest, and submit with full submission.
SHAKIR But no! by your Lord! they do not believe (in reality) until they make you a judge of that which has become a matter of disagreement among them, and then do not find any straitness in their hearts as to what you have decided and submit with entire submission.form II whose Masdar is of the pattern is used in 465 to mean surrender.
Peace,
Ayman
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form II whose Masdar is of the pattern is used in 465 to mean surrender. Aymen
If one goes by these translators , they translate the same Form-II verb, though correctly here;
008.043
YUSUFALI Remember in thy dream Allah showed them to thee as few if He had shown them to thee as many, ye would surely have been discouraged, and ye would surely have disputed in (your) decision; but Allah saved (you) for He knoweth well the (secrets) of (all) hearts.
PICKTHAL When Allah showed them unto thee (O Muhammad) in thy dream as few in number, and if He had shown them to thee as many, ye (Muslims) would have faltered and would have quarrelled over the affair. But Allah saved (you). Lo! He knoweth what is in the breasts (of men).
SHAKIR When Allah showed them to you in your dream as few; and if He had shown them to you as many you would certainly have become weak-hearted and you would have disputed about the matter, but Allah saved (you); surely He is the Knower of what is in the breasts. -
He made safe; he greeted. Mazhar
024.027
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! enter not houses other than your own, until ye have asked permission and saluted those in them that is best for you, in order that ye may heed (what is seemly).
PICKTHAL O ye who believe! Enter not houses other than your own without first announcing your presence and invoking peace upon the folk thereof. That is better for you, that ye may be heedful.
SHAKIR O you who believe! Do not enter houses other than your own houses until you have asked permission and saluted their inmates; this is better for you, that you may be mindful. -
He made safe; he greeted. Mazhar
024.061
YUSUFALI But if ye enter houses, salute each other - a greeting of blessing and purity as from Allah.
PICKTHAL But when ye enter houses, salute one another with a greeting from Allah, blessed and sweet.
SHAKIR So when you enter houses, greet your people with a salutation from Allah, blessed (and) goodly; -
Based on my collective reading of different fields I lean towards islam being peace as well as it's associated words. I think some people are adamant on fixating a single word to islam and not seeing the bigger picture.
Submission connotes a master slave relationship between our Creator whereas I see it as complete opposite based on our Creator giving us freedom to choose the paths we take in life....far from a submissive relationship I see
PEACE
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Submission connotes a master slave relationship between our Creator whereas I see it as complete opposite based on our Creator giving us freedom to choose the paths we take in life....far from a submissive relationship I see
The important field seems to have been missed in study
And I did not create the groups of Jinn and Human beings except for the purpose that they should, by will and affection, submit to subservience/allegiance to Me .
This is acceptance of Master slave relationship by excericising free will which is the cause of creation of everything.
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If one goes by these translators , they translate the same Form-II verb, though correctly here;
The Arabic was quoted first before the translators for the very reason that form II in 465 meaning "surrender"/"give in" is immediately apparent to an Arabic speaker. There is no need for over-complication. In mundane normal Arabic usage an average Arabic speaker would clearly understand "sallam sela7h" to mean surrendered/gave in his weapon and not saved or saluted the weapon in this context. So depending on the context is the appropriate word to use for conveying "surrender/giving in" any object xxxx and therefore should have been used instead of in if surrendering his xxxx was the intended meaning. The confusion is caused by forcing a meaning from Form II on Form IV.
Peace,
Ayman
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The Arabic was quoted first before the translators for the very reason that form II in 465 meaning "surrender"/"give in" is immediately apparent to an Arabic speaker. There is no need for over-complication. In mundane normal Arabic usage an average Arabic speaker would clearly understand "sallam sela7h" to mean surrendered/gave in his weapon and not saved or saluted the weapon in this context. So depending on the context is the appropriate word to use for conveying "surrender/giving in" any object xxxx and therefore should have been used instead of in if surrendering his xxxx was the intended meaning. The confusion is caused by forcing a meaning from Form II on Form IV.
Peace,
Ayman
Merely by one omission of these translators Form-II cannot be considered to denote what is signified by form-IV. At all other places of occurrence of Form-II they have translated it as save, protect and salutation, greeting, as I have quoted three examples.
surrender, yield, submit, succumb to, give in. ( ط