Gods System/Sunnatallah
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Salaam Everyone,
God?s system/SUNNATALLAH
The starting points of all BIG and COMPLEX phenomena are tiny and simple. The process of creation began at subatomic, inorganic levels, changing to cellular (41), organic, and then embryonic and finally sex specific stages, so on and so forth. This requires long, intensive, and tiresome trials and errors, processes of elimination, tests, substitutions of many generations?some one right after another?struggles for existence, through countless recurrences involving tiny and gradual changes, resulting in the survival of the fittest, all of which is an unceasing process that carries on to the next stages of creation and evolution.
This is an integral part of God?s way of creating things. In other words, Evolution, or better stated, the Process of Creation, is governed by a set of pre-ordained laws, having a basis, a direction and, consequently, an inevitable and purposeful end.
We can observe this absolute ruling of an unchangeable system all over, from subatomic world to inter galactic universes. It is a single uniform, continuous, none-interruptive and harmonious system (3128), which has never changed in the past and will not change in the future (3543). That is God?s lawful SYSTEM, or, in other words, SUNNATALLAH.
Considering any exceptions, like explaining the creation of mankind in a different way through philosophy, idealism and age old religious superstition, will lead us to believe that God?s system (SUNNATALLAH) is a broken, chopped up, none-uniform and discriminatory system that, it?s governing laws change from one form of creation to another. This is the basic belief in paganism?the belief in multiple systems, which inevitably leads to belief in multiple gods.
According to the Qur?an, the creation of the Universe, the Heavens, and the Earth, did similarly, start out tiny and simple?SIX ?days? (754, 103, 117, 2559, 324, 5038, 574) before the BIG bang (2130). During these six ?days?, this ?cell/embryo?, ?theHeavensandtheEarth?, was within an ?enclosure? as a collective sum, just like a baby growing in the womb before birth. During the BIG bang/the NEW BIRTH (2130), the next stages/the next EIGHT ?days? (419-12), of creation and evolution of the UNIVERSE began.
We are now in the latter parts of the FOURTEENTH ?day?, of the creation of the Universe. The Qur?an informs us about the coming of the Fifteenth/the LAST ?day?.
Believing in the Last day is the 2nd article of belief in ISLAM.
The 1st article of belief in our faith, Islam, is believing-in and worshiping the ONE and ONLY God ALLAH. 2nd to that, in The Qur'an, most emphasis has been made on believing-in the coming of the LAST ?day?. It is named the LAST ?day? because there is no END to it. It is going to be the everlasting ?day? (2255), thee GOAL, the END RESULT, the PURPOSE of the CREATION as ONE SINGLE LIVING ENTITY, from start to end (312.
Human societies as tiny parts of God?s Creation are of no exception and are subject to the same SYSTEM/LAW, following the same path. The ones that follow God?s LAWS more closely, will flourish and last longer to enjoy their existence more and better than others.
Even those who were superior, when corrupted, were annihilated and replaced by better-fitting generations and societies.Let us contemplate 2920, which states, ??Roam the Earth and observe how God started the creation??
God wants us to simply observe His creation within the Earth, no need to go anywhere else, just search through the Earth and find out how He started the creation, even our own creation.Now, if it is not possible for us to roam the Earth and find out for ourselves, we can at least study the works of those who have spent lifetimes doing so. We certainly cannot, and must not, ignore and/or deny the immense works of Charles Darwin, and colleagues of his time, as well as those who came before, and after him. Those are the people who in reality, and as The Qur?an says in 2920, did roam the Earth, and studied it closely and learned and carefully recorded in detail, how God started His creation. Their explanation of the process of creation is indeed nearest to the truth.
For ages, the orthodox religions have ?explained? the Universe purely through speculation and unjustifiable interpretations. Afterwards, when confronted with the solid truth of evolutionary creation, started denying it, mocking it, and, in the end, for the sake of their worldly interests, tried to ?prevent? its dispersion (932, 618). Their efforts are indeed the reason why the young and educated are generally resentful towards the idea of religion.
We need to rid our minds of the traditional, orthodox, and generally superstitious ways of explaining the verses of the Qur?an. We need to explain things as they really are in the nature, otherwise we will never understand the truth behind our lives and the very world in which we are living. If this is not done we will continue to be among the lost/losers, or KHASIROON. Some of these traditional ideas are as follows
? The belief which states that we humans were created in Heaven/Paradise, and used to live there, and then were exiled onto the Earth as a result of committing a horrendous sin, has no Qur?anic basis unless we begin assuming the clear and straightforward message of the Qur?an. The Qur?an tells us that God started the creation of human, not Adam, from clay (327), a material part of the Earth itself. Throughout the Qur?an, God explains the different stages of human creation, as well as his EVOLUTION, in a very easy to understand and clear language.
The idea of being a sinner without having a slightest clue in mind or memory of committing such a sin far, far away in the past, does not hold water with God?s system of justice. The Qur?an tells us that even in the Hereafter, we will be carrying a clear record of our deeds of this present life and we ourselves will be enough towards our own reckoning (1714).
? There is yet another belief which states that the righteous will not die and go straight to Heaven/Paradise! The Qur?an, in three different verses, 3185, 2135 and 2957, tells us that every living creature/soul will taste the death. In 3930, the prophet Muhammad is told very clearly that he will certainly be among the dead, just as everyone else will. According to The Qur?an, Hereafter or The Last Day (and consequently, Paradise and Hell) are events of the future (2920), the next stage of the evolution of the Universe, and do not yet exist.
? The belief that states the first FORTY years of our life is just a grace period and those who die before age of forty go straight to Heaven/Paradise, forgiven of all their sins, has no Qur?anic basis. And considering that, in two verses, 448 and 4116, God tells us very plainly that He does NOT forgive the sin of SHIRK, i.e., associating partners with Him. I am sure there have been multitudes of people in the past that have died before the age of forty, maintaining ideologically polytheistic beliefs until their death, and consequently would NOT end up in Heaven/Paradise.
With Salaam,
Khalil -
Peace brother Khalil,
Thanks for sharing your well-written analysis. I agree with just about all of it.
Indeed, our anatomy places us in the order Primates along with monkeys, apes, and lemurs, all sharing traits such as forward-facing eyes, fingernails, color vision, and opposable thumbs. We are more specifically in the same family as Great Apes - chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans - sharing unique features like flattened fingernails, thirty-two teeth, enlarged ovaries, and prolonged parental care. Molecular data derived from DNA and protein sequences confirms these relationships; we share 98.5 percent of our DNA sequence with chimps.
http//img4.imageshack.us/img4/8116/18321426.png
The fossil record now consists of about twenty different types of hominins, each with features somewhat human and somewhat chimp. The oldest was discovered in 2002 in Chad, called Sahelanthropus Tchadensis. From between six and seven million years ago, it had a long cranium with a small, chimp-sized brain, but like later hominins, it had a flat face, small teeth, and brow ridges.
http//img85.imageshack.us/img85/1694/26441522.png
There are many passages in the great reading (al-quran al-adhim) that allude to human evolution. I believe the god used the noun "adam" to signify the first human community, in the same way that "Israel" refers to a community in this passage
393 All food was allowed for the sons of Israel except what was prohibted by Israel itself.
Is "adam" an Arabic import of the Hebrew "adam" , being the feminine of "earth/ground" ?
Genesis 27 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground .
Peace,
-David
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There are many passages in the great reading (al-quran al-adhim) that allude to human evolution. I believe the god used the noun "adam" to signify the first human community, in the same way that "Israel" refers to a community in this passage
Salaam brother David,
I do second your scientific approach. Mine was more on the philosophical side. Thanks for your response, but I need some clarification on your part regarding what I highlighted above, though I may slip away from the main topic!
1st Why do you use ?the great reading? instead of The Qur?an. The Qur?an, like the Torah and the Ingeel, is very well known globally by its proper name. It is a unique book. Why don?t you call it by its proper name, just like GOD Himself Calls it by its proper name, The Qur?an? Make it simple and easy for others to understand you instead of making it more complicated. Try to learn from The Qur?an itself. It was sent down to a nation that most of its people were illiterate at the time. So it must had been very simple and easy for them to understand it. My name is Khalil. It means ?intimate sincere friend.? I?m not sure whether I?d like to be called by other than Khalil!
2nd Why do you say ?the god? instead of GOD. There is no other god beside GOD, that you may define Him as ?the? god. When you say ?the god? it tells me that there exist more than ONE GOD, and you are specifying one in particular by saying ?the god.? So if we believe that there is only one god, that god must have the most unique proper name in any language in a way that no one else has the right to that particular name. Like GOD in English, ALLAH in Arabic, JEHOWA in Hebrew, KHODAA in Farsi and so on. I don't think you can find anyone who pick that unique particular name for him or herself.
3rd Adam was the name of a human who lived among other humans who probably had their own names too, just like you and I and others. David, Khalil, John, Ali, and? See 333.
4th Israel was also a person. Israel was the prophet Jacob?s nickname. He had 12 sons, hence the 12 tribes, called children of Israel.
With Salaam,
Khalil -
Salaam brother David,
I do second your scientific approach. Mine was more on the philosophical side. Thanks for your response, but I need some clarification on your part regarding what I highlighted above, though I may slip away from the main topic!
1st Why do you use ?the great reading? instead of The Qur?an. The Qur?an, like the Torah and the Ingeel, is very well known globally by its proper name. It is a unique book. Why don?t you call it by its proper name, just like GOD Himself Calls it by its proper name, The Qur?an? Make it simple and easy for others to understand you instead of making it more complicated. Try to learn from The Qur?an itself. It was sent down to a nation that most of its people were illiterate at the time. So it must had been very simple and easy for them to understand it. My name is Khalil. It means ?intimate sincere friend.? I?m not sure whether I?d like to be called by other than Khalil!
2nd Why do you say ?the god? instead of GOD. There is no other god beside GOD, that you may define Him as ?the? god. When you say ?the god? it tells me that there exist more than ONE GOD, and you are specifying one in particular by saying ?the god.? So if we believe that there is only one god, that god must have the most unique proper name in any language in a way that no one else has the right to that particular name. Like GOD in English, ALLAH in Arabic, JEHOWA in Hebrew, KHODAA in Farsi and so on. I don't think you can find anyone who pick that unique particular name for him or herself.
3rd Adam was the name of a human who lived among other humans who probably had their own names too, just like you and I and others. David, Khalil, John, Ali, and? See 333.
4th Israel was also a person. Israel was the prophet Jacob?s nickname. He had 12 sons, hence the 12 tribes, called children of Israel.
With Salaam,
KhalilTaking terms in the quran and turning them into proper names is a very common tactic of deception used by hadeethists to enforce their interpretation of the quran.
As for why say "the god", contrary to what you think it implies there is ONLY 1 god. Suppose that a single apple existed in the entire universe. You wouldn't refer to it as "an apple", you would refer to it as THE apple because there is none else like it. In addition this prevents separation of "god" concepts and idolisation of people's individual concepts. When you say "the god" there is no room for doubt as to what you are referring to, it must be the sole omnipotent and all-pervading force in the universe irrespective of if you believe it exists or not.
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3rd Adam was the name of a human who lived among other humans who probably had their own names too, just like you and I and others. David, Khalil, John, Ali, and? See 333.
4th Israel was also a person. Israel was the prophet Jacob?s nickname. He had 12 sons, hence the 12 tribes, called children of Israel.
With Salaam,
KhalilSalam,
not sure about these 2 statements.
Peace
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Salam,
not sure about these 2 statements.
Peace
for the second statement, it is right Jacob his real name is Isreal and his sons called Bani Isreal. For the first statement ; it is absolutely wrong as we know that there was just two human kind in the beginning Eve and Adam and God sent them to Earth and we all know the story of sending them to this Land.
I'm not sharing the same opinion of David, because the structure of bones and teeth of Appes are not and weren't the same as human bones and teeth and of course we are not under this classification of being from the same family.
for the Thread, I have to disagree with The OP because the term evolution is not as he thinks because evolution needs a process from singular chemical reactions which it takes years (100000 years) to develop, so this is not what came in Quran, as we know that we are created from clay and then God make this clay works by his soul and as I know these things need no process, no years to develop.
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I disbelieve in hadeeth because according to hadeethists, it took Allah 23 years to explain and send down the quran. As we all know, Allah needs no process, no years to develop so obviously it is ridiculous.
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I disbelieve in hadeeth because according to hadeethists, it took Allah 23 years to explain and send down the quran. As we all know, Allah needs no process, no years to develop so obviously it is ridiculous.
No, wrong .This shows your ignorance even of Quran that you are claiming that you followed him . Quran didn't take 23 years in explaining or in sendind down as you claimed . Quran was already written and done but because human are too slow not like Jinn or angels, and the ability of mind to sustain this whole information in one time, it's too dangerous for him. And it takes years because of events and dates and issues that were wrong at that time or are discussed in that time .
Let me ask you this question when God created the seven skyes and the seven Earths in six days, how do you understand this ?
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Taking terms in the quran and turning them into proper names is a very common tactic of deception used by hadeethists to enforce their interpretation of the quran.
As for why say "the god", contrary to what you think it implies there is ONLY 1 god. Suppose that a single apple existed in the entire universe. You wouldn't refer to it as "an apple", you would refer to it as THE apple because there is none else like it. In addition this prevents separation of "god" concepts and idolisation of people's individual concepts. When you say "the god" there is no room for doubt as to what you are referring to, it must be the sole omnipotent and all-pervading force in the universe irrespective of if you believe it exists or not.
The highlights above are from me.
Peace OPF,
English language, just like all other languages, has its own linguistic and grammatical rules and conventions. One cannot, all of a sudden, jump in and start inventing arbitrary rules and regulations over what has already been evolved and established over long periods of time within communities, and by common sense, been accepted as universal rules. Reinventing the wheel is just stupid, because it works just fine the way it is quite perfectly for thousands of years.
Saying that; and according to your logic; why don?t you change China to ?the china?, Khalil to ?the khalil?, David to ?the david?, England to ?the england? Chicago to ?the chicago? and so forth?
Do you know the reason behind using the definite article ?THE? in the English language? Like I said reinventing the OBVIOUS is plain nonsense/stupid.
And as for the "ONLY" apple in the Universe; you better call it APPLE, NOT "the apple."
Peace,
Khalil -
Well, then you can call it either "APPLE" or "the apple", there is no difference. Either method of reference is syntactically correct.
Irrespective of all this, our lord tells us not to get lost in syntax and actually make headway as to what is peaceful and not peaceful. Vain discourses do not help one prevail in this life let alone the hereafter.
The rules are not universal either; change in syntax reflects a change in the viewpoints of society. A form of a word/linguistic symbol conjures up associations and connotations in one's brain. Referring to "Allah" will instantly conjure up all the previous connotations associated with "Allah" such as "hadeeth, terrorism, bombs, halal, salat, etc" and all the brain circuits involved in the programming/conditioning of years gone by are fired up once more. So by referring to "Allah" you introduce an ice cube into an ocean instead of creating a separate sea.
The gamble is whether the new sea of connotation is isomorphic to the old ocean in which you dropped the ice cube and I would say that going by the veracity of hadeeth, the "new sea" is far more robust and resilient. Consider the terms "collateral damage" vs "murder of civilians", they both refer to identical things yet they conjure up vastly different emotional responses. If you read a news article, it is easy to skip over "collateral damage" yet bells ring and birds shriek when "murder of civilians" is mentioned.
The beauty of words is that they refer to very precise things (if one had the computational capacity, a word could be turned into a mathematical pattern) but their sound creates a vibrational pattern that can excite the brain because of prior emotional associations with that vibrational pattern. A degree of such synaesthesia is inherent in all humanity that possesses the ability to process language.
In fact, the "wheel" has already been reinvented by hadeethists of the past and this is reflected in the fact that many quranic terms remain untranslated and kept as proper nouns across all languages despite having meaning in themselves. This is a fine example as to why reinventing the wheel is very important if you wish to change global perception in any way. You may go down a grade from pneumatic tires to hexagons as the hadeethists have done or you may try to ascend a level and find out what our creator is actually telling us.
To paraphrase, nothing seems to be universal save God and human ignorance. And the latter will be eradicated soon.
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Quran was already written and done but because human are too slow not like Jinn or angels, and the ability of mind to sustain this whole information in one time, it's too dangerous for him. And it takes years because of events and dates and issues that were wrong at that time or are discussed in that time .
So the 'written' Quran, as we have it now, was 'written' long before but God had to wait to give us parts of it so that 'our lives and timings of events' could catch up with it?
hhhmm, i'm gonna have to have a think about that one ???
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Peace,
la ilah illa allah = no god except the god.
"allah" is a contraction of "al - ilah" = "the god".
In English, we often use capital letter for meaningless proper names. "Allah" is not a meaningless proper name, since it means "the god".
My name is David, which means nothing in English and comes from Hebrew I guess and has something to do with being loved, though I'm bound to be hated by some. Your name is Khalil, but not everyone would want to take you as a friend. A person's name doesn't guarantee anything. I don't mind being called "Human 459485859094" so long as I have the mercy of the god.
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hmm I like this discussion, I like where it is going.
It reminds me of...
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/Godsaid.jpg
There are just some things that seem illogical to me though.
For instance, Chimps/monkeys do not have Morals. There is no such thing as "Zina, Haraam,/Adultery Forbidden wrongness."
Monkeys Kill each other and then Cannibalize the victims, there has been open Homosexuality, and Incest among them aswell I believe.What I dont understand is, If GOD's Message and rules have always been constant (Allah never changes his mind) then if we are to believe we evolved from Apes...They why would we NOW be held responsible and have Laws/Morals when before "We" or our "Ancient Parents" did not?
Also, If we do subscribe to the Entire Evolutionary Belief, what about Isa bin Maryum? A pregnant Virgin....That goes against Biology and Science.
If Allah has the Power to Make a Virgin Pregnant (Kun Fiyakun Be and it is) then couldn't he have done the same for Adam (i.e. Humans)?
I think this is interesting and I love where its going. I do however feel many times People Change religion to fit the Modern Views of Science, and this can sometimes create some problems.
Peace/Salaam
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No, wrong .This shows your ignorance even of Quran that you are claiming that you followed him . Quran didn't take 23 years in explaining or in sendind down as you claimed . Quran was already written and done but because human are too slow not like Jinn or angels, and the ability of mind to sustain this whole information in one time, it's too dangerous for him. And it takes years because of events and dates and issues that were wrong at that time or are discussed in that time .
Let me ask you this question when God created the seven skyes and the seven Earths in six days, how do you understand this ?
According to hadeethists the quran was revealed over 23 years and that is also why there are "Makkan verses" and "Medinan verses". Are you delusional or just very ignorant of your own people?
As for your other question, I will answer that when you tell me, using quranic evidence, how is it that if the planets & birds do not follow any conjecture or any opinions of sheikhs in their salat, why we the foremost of Allah's creation should do so.
Zulu12, I will refer you to 7516. It is well outside of my capability to verify such a thing. If my almighty creator does not ask me about such a question I don't think you as a mortal have any such right to do so, thank you very much.
As for the ridiculous contempt some people have towards evolution in this thread, I will ask one simple question. In al-quran, 2435, is the statement that "Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth" a literal phrase or a parable/metaphor? Tell me from your superior Arabic knowledge so that I can understand the message of Allah better. Much thanks.
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hmm I like this discussion, I like where it is going.
It reminds me of...
There are just some things that seem illogical to me though.
For instance, Chimps/monkeys do not have Morals. There is no such thing as "Zina, Haraam,/Adultery Forbidden wrongness."
Monkeys Kill each other and then Cannibalize the victims, there has been open Homosexuality, and Incest among them aswell I believe.What I dont understand is, If GOD's Message and rules have always been constant (Allah never changes his mind) then if we are to believe we evolved from Apes...They why would we NOW be held responsible and have Laws/Morals when before "We" or our "Ancient Parents" did not?
Also, If we do subscribe to the Entire Evolutionary Belief, what about Isa bin Maryum? A pregnant Virgin....That goes against Biology and Science.
If Allah has the Power to Make a Virgin Pregnant (Kun Fiyakun Be and it is) then couldn't he have done the same for Adam (i.e. Humans)?
I think this is interesting and I love where its going. I do however feel many times People Change religion to fit the Modern Views of Science, and this can sometimes create some problems.
Peace/Salaam
Salam RA, all,
20123
He said "Get ye down both of you all together from the Garden, with enmity one to another; but if, as is sure there comes to you guidance from Me, whosoever follows My guidance, will not lose his way nor fall into misery238
We said "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you guidance from Me" whosoever follows My guidance on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.When Allah swt says "Get ye down both of you all together from the Garden", do you think Adam and his spouse were made of "meat and bones" or do you think is their soul that was to get down to earth?
In that case when the "soul" get down from the Garden (a very far place), do you think on earth there was "already" the bodies waiting to host these souls? for me it is Yes, because
230
Behold thy Lord said to the angels "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said "Wilt thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood? Whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said "I know what ye know not."How do you think angels knew men will mischief and shed blood --> they knew the animal already!
And last, how do you think you can "travel" billions of light years between earth and the Garden? Surely not with your body shape which is an inconvenient envelop to travel such a dsitance.
3942
It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed. Verily in this are Signs for those who reflect.Conclusion is evolution theory true? as long as science can proove it, yes, otherwise Allah swt would not create the Universe in 6 periodes, time for the evolution to take place and develop.
Peace
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For instance, Chimps/monkeys do not have Morals. There is no such thing as "Zina, Haraam,/Adultery Forbidden wrongness."
According to Bukhari, there is.
Because of the abhorrence and obscenity of this action, even the monkeys are offended by it, and they carried out the hadd punishment of stoning on a monkey which committed zina, as was narrated in Saheeh al-Bukhaari from ?Amr ibn Maymoon who said ?During the Jaahiliyyah I saw a monkey which had committed zina, so the other monkeys got together and stoned it, and I stoned it with them.? (al-Manaaqib, 5360).
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I believe in Evolution, because there is a large amount of Irrefutable Date in Evolution.
However I dont believe in ALL ASPECTS of evolution.The Evolutionary Belief is very diverse just Like Islam. There is not just ONE TRUE CONCRETE Evolutionary Theory.
I may believe in Islam, however that doesnt mean I believe in the same "Islam" the Majority of Muslims Believe in today's world "Sunnism".As far as Us evolving from Apes, I need to research this topic more.
what I dont understand is how You can have Apes and Humans but no Middle man.
for instance today we have in the World/b]
A Chimpanzee on one end... (common ancestor)
http//i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee211/sailajaprakash/chimpanzee.jpgand then we have Us Humans.
http//i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/stepurhan/Amsterdam%2010-4-10/Group.jpgWhere is the Monkey in the Middle?
we believe that He died, he became Extinct etc...
But since Evolution is Constant, wouldnt we find a bunch of Middle Human/monkeys?
I mean evolution is still in effect therefore I would think they exist.
There has to be some Monkeys right now in the world who are already half-way evolved into Neanderthal man.
Where is he at.I dont buy the "He is extinct", even if he was extinct, since we have evolution, is he going to reappear again?
will we see the "Common Ancestor again?" and what is our next step in evolution? -
So the 'written' Quran, as we have it now, was 'written' long before but God had to wait to give us parts of it so that 'our lives and timings of events' could catch up with it?
look at what God said " " " " means that God has made it parts >> for what ? >>> God said " ". means for strethen your heart and comprehend and hold it .
hhhmm, i'm gonna have to have a think about that one ???
Yes, and see above.
P.S This is not the subject .