7:3 Is دُونِهِ refers to God or to مَا أُنزِلَ ?
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What he was asked to follow and what he did physically, he was asked to tell people
Sorry, I don't know what he did physically. What I follow him I follow from Quran and the Quran doesn't seem to give any particularities.
Ittiba' cannot be physical because
- Adam follows God's guidance (2/3
- It's possible to follow Iblees (7/1
- Good deeds followed by injury (2/263)
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Sorry, I don't know what he did physically. What I follow him I follow from Quran and the Quran doesn't seem to give any particularities.
Ittiba' cannot be physical because
- Adam follows God's guidance (2/3
- It's possible to follow Iblees (7/1
- Good deeds followed by injury (2/263)
Strange. And what is guidance and how it is followed? Is it just keep gossoping or physically acting on what has been advised?
How the man is tested? ONLY BY ACTS, and acts have physical connotation.
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You said we should follow the scholars and the majority. That IS following masters other than God.
So, if the meaning of master means scholars and the majority, so I must say that the translation is wrong .
because the word in Arabic doesn't mean that neither it is or was about that .
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Strange. And what is guidance and how it is followed? Is it just keep gossoping or physically acting on what has been advised?
Guidance is information given from God to man which gives man the right code of conduct. Yes it can be physical but it can also be spiritual. Following the messenger however cannot be following his PHYSICAL pattern (THIS is the subject of the discussion, actually) because of 2 things
a. I am not phyiscally like him
b. I am not physically in his situationFor example, the instruction may be 'fight those who fight you' (2/190). I can do that for people living NOW but I cannot be with the Prophet to fight those people then. Hope that's clear now. Ittiba3 is not necessarily physical. If it is, you'll have to tell us how to physically follow iblees and sit on siratun mustaqeem.
How the man is tested? ONLY BY ACTS, and acts have physical connotation.
Irrelevant to the argument, sorry.
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So, if the meaning of master means scholars and the majority, so I must say that the translation is wrong .
because the word in Arabic doesn't mean that neither it is or was about that .
The phrase in Arabi is 'min doonihi' (other than him). So the only mawla is Allah. Scholars and the majority are not Allah.
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The phrase in Arabi is 'min doonihi' (other than him). So the only mawla is Allah. Scholars and the majority are not Allah.
Good to know that Scholars and the majority are not Allah . So again read the verse .
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Exactly, and neither is the prophet and itis the prophet, scholars and majority who you claim to follow reformer.
Are you aware of what the verse said ? follow only God in what ? try to read the verse . If we take your logic, we will not follow the prophet as it is the one who received the message, is that what you said " the prophet gives us Quran, so we will take Quran and throw him away ? . this is what you want to say .
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Are you aware of what the verse said ? follow only God in what ? try to read the verse . If we take your logic, we will not follow the prophet as it is the one who received the message, is that what you said " the prophet gives us Quran, so we will take Quran and throw him away ? . this is what you want to say .
Dont put words in my mouth.
The prophet IS NOT HERE now anyway. What the prophet was here to do he has done and that is give Quran, that was his ONLY DUTY to pass on the message. His job is DONE. We follow the messenger in following Quran, the message he was given to recite to us. he followed NOTHING else but Quran, NOTHING ELSE. Your 'divine' hadith have him following something else which he DID NOT. Your 'divine' hadith that you claim are from Allah and not in Quran, then you claim ae n Quran and not from Allah. They are nothing to do with ALLAH. You are instructed to follow ONLY ALLAH.
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Are you aware of what the verse said ? follow only God in what ? try to read the verse . If we take your logic, we will not follow the prophet as it is the one who received the message, is that what you said " the prophet gives us Quran, so we will take Quran and throw him away ? . this is what you want to say .
how can you say that following the quran equates to throwing the prophet away? the entire quran is his own personal utterance isnt it? every verse being his "Qoul" or "Qoul-e-Rasool". So if we follow the Quran, its the same as following the prophet.
This reminds me of the verse in the bible (John 1030) where Jesus is quoted as saying " I and the father are ONE". This verse is used by many christians to mean that they are ONE in being while clearly the context tells us (verse 23 to 30) that they are one in purpose. So to follow the prophet is to follow God, whose word is given to us in the book.
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The prophet IS NOT HERE now anyway. What the prophet was here to do he has done and that is give Quran, that was his ONLY DUTY to pass on the message. His job is DONE. We follow the messenger in following Quran, the message he was given to recite to us.
So here you agree that "min doonhi" is Qur'aan since like the Messenger we also don't find and see Allah whom we could follow. We follow the Book which demonstrates that we have accepted the word of Allah conveyed through the Messenger.
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Following the messenger however cannot be following his PHYSICAL pattern (THIS is the subject of the discussion, actually) because of 2 things
a. I am not phyiscally like him
b. I am not physically in his situationI never said that try to travel back in time and follow the Messenger there. Messenger said he follows ONLY the Qur'aan. If you follow only the Qur'aan you are exactly following the Messenger. I don't know where is spirituality involved in it. It is simple and plain physical manner of living, nothing but private, family and social life conduct.
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I'm not sure, but since "rabb" is right before "dunihi", I'd say it's following anything apart from the lord, not what he sent down.
which one?
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follow "A" which is from "B" and do not follow anything other than "A"
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follow "A" which is from "B" and do not follow anything that is not from "B"
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follow "A" which is from "B" and do not follow anyone besides "B"
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My understanding is that "min du nihi" in the verse means "any other" so it clearly refers to God and not to "ma unzila"
wala tattibiyu = and do not follow
min dunihi awliya = any master other than Him (Allah)master is not the best translation of awliya, especially in this verse. thanks
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Awliya comes from Wali which means 'guardian'
are u sure?
put that in this
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat10_files/10_62.gif -
Perhaps then Awliya is best translated as 'allies'. I don't mind 'protector' either because I see it as being protector of Allah's system.
It's no different from being 'helpers of Allah' (ansarullah as the followers of Isa were). Does Allah need help? No but He gives opportunity for His servants to help Him.