Quran vs quranists
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I've been yesterday too busy with a verse trying to make reference between a word came after the book of Allah which is Quran and I found it in a lot of verses and I was really shocked that the same interpretation that I found is the same as the famous interpreters in Islamic world have found. You know that I've tried to justify in more than a thread that hadith is necessary as a second way of ligeslation and laws and it is really important after all it (the Hadith) translates the word of allah into deeds and sayings and reports through the messengerhttp//vb.islam2all.com/images/smilies/words/Sala-allah.png, but now I came with a proof from Quran itself, denying this proof is just a waste of time and a disbelieve in what God said in his book and God knows . I didn't start this topic until I found and I compared more than 20 verses in 12 surah .
The verses
" 2129. Our Lord! Send amongst them a Messenger of their own (and indeed All?h answered their invocation by sending Muhammad م, who shall recite unto them Your Verses and instruct them in the Book (this Qur??n) and Al-Hikmah(full knowledge of the Isl?mic laws and jurisprudence or wisdom or Prophethood), and purify them. Verily! You are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise."
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Similarly (to complete My Blessings on you), We have sent among you a Messenger (Muhammad م of your own, reciting to you Our Verses (the Qur??n) and purifying you, and teaching you the Book (the Qur??n) and the Al-Hikmah (i.e. Sunnah, Isl?mic laws and Fiqh - jurisprudence), and teaching you that which you used not to know.
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He it is Who sent among the unlettered ones a Messenger (Muhammad م from among themselves, reciting to them His Verses, purifying them (from the filth of disbelief and polytheism), and teaching them the Book (this Qur??n, Isl?mic laws and Isl?mic jurisprudence) and Al-Hikmah (As-Sunnah legal ways, orders, acts of worship of Prophet Muhammad م. And verily, they had been before in manifest error;
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And He (All?h) will teach him (??s? (Jesus) the Book and Al-Hikmah (i.e. the Sunnah, the faultless speech of the Prophets, wisdom), (and) the Taur?t (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel).
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(Remember) when All?h will say (on the Day of Resurrection). "O ??s? (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Remember My Favour to you and to your mother when I supported you with R?h-ul-Qudus (Jibr?l (Gabriel)) so that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and when I taught you writing, Al-Hikmah (the power of understanding), the Taur?t (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel); and when you made out of the clay a figure like that of a bird, by My Permission, and you breathed into it, and it became a bird by My Permission, and you healed those born blind, and the lepers by My Permission, and when you brought forth the dead by My Permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from you (when they resolved to kill you) as you came unto them with clear proofs, and the disbelievers among them said ?This is nothing but evident magic.?"
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And when you have divorced women and they have fulfilled the term of their prescribed period, either take them back on reasonable basis or set them free on reasonable basis. But do not take them back to hurt them, and whoever does that, then he has wronged himself. And treat not the Verses (Laws) of All?h as a jest, but remember All?h?s Favours on you (i.e. Isl?m), and that which He has sent down to you of the Book (i.e. the Qur??n) and Al-Hikmah (the Prophet?s Sunnah - legal ways - Isl?mic jurisprudence.) whereby He instructs you. And fear All?h, and know that All?h is All-Aware of everything.
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Had not the Grace of All?h and His Mercy been upon you (O Muhammad م, a party of them would certainly have made a decision to mislead you, but (in fact) they mislead none except their own selves, and no harm can they do to you in the least. All?h has sent down to you the Book (The Qur??n), and Al-Hikmah (Isl?mic laws, knowledge of legal and illegal things i.e. the Prophet?s Sunnah - legal ways), and taught you that which you knew not. And Ever Great is the Grace of All?h unto you (O Muhammad م.
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Or do they envy men (Muhammad and his followers) for what All?h has given them of His Bounty? Then We had already given the family of Ibr?h?m (Abraham) the Book and Al-Hikmah (As-Sunnah - Divine Revelation to those Prophets not written in the form of a book), and conferred upon them a great kingdom.
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He grants Al-Hikmah to whom He pleases, and he, to whom Hikmah is granted, is indeed granted abundant good. But none remember (will receive admonition) except men of understanding.
There other verses that talk about the word that came after the book of Allah and where Allah mentioned this word alone as another source of divine words from him through his prophet and those divine words not exsit in Quran . The reader of these verses will see an independant word there in all those verses which is "Al-HiKMAH", and everyone when he heard this word he knows that it is not just words if they didn't work use it in his daily life and the Hikma of a normal person is not like the wisdom of a prophet because as you can see from the verses that it is another source from God .
Hikmah literally means wisdom, but it means here the knowledge, and the understanding of the Qur??n, and the Sunnah and one?s ability to speak and act in the correct and right way.
And we know all that there was a man called "Loqman" who was known by wisdom that God gave him and there were sayings from him to to his sons and the reader of these sayings of Loqman will see that all of them must be translated into deeds .
So if the word Hikma means Quran why it came after "" and classified with the Gospel and the Torah ?
How do you translate this word "quranists" ? how do you interpret it ? and why this translation said that it is sunnah and we know that sunnah is regisetred in Hadith and contains the deeds of the prophet http//vb.islam2all.com/images/smilies/words/Sala-allah.png and his saying and his reports which are the Hikma that the prophet received from God?
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None of the planets & birds follow the conjecture/opinions of any scholars in their salat so why should the foremost creation of Allah?
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peace
Hikmah literally means wisdom, but it means here the knowledge, and the understanding of the Qur??n, and the Sunnah and one?s ability to speak and act in the correct and right way.
How do you translate this word "quranists" ? how do you interpret it ?
and why this translation said that it is sunnah
I have researched the word hikmah before and came to the conclusion that it means wisdom. Imho it does not make sense to translate it as sunnah / hadith.
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17/39 These (referring to 17/23-3 are among al-hikmah, which thy Lord has revealed to thee. Take not, with Allah, another object of worship, lest thou shouldst be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected.
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Salam all,
This is an easy one
The book by itself can either guide or misguide as per 226
Then as a prophete and messenger, he should have by default the "hikma", the thing that makes you "guided". Anyone can get this "hikma" by Allah's will as per 2269Peace
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Thereformer1,
thanks for the verses except you have one problem why does "hikma = sunnah hadith" Shafi was the first to assert such a claim.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8803.0 look at this hadith, telling you the wisdom is the Quran not hadith, isnt that a contradiction in fiqh?
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I did a root search for / ha-ka-ma and came across several verses that use the word / hekma.
I can see that -- if you're intent on doing so -- you might interpret hekma as sunna in particular verses where it's used in conjunction with Mohammed. However, the word is used throughout the Qur'an, and in some verses it would not make any sense at all to translate it as hadith or sunna of Muhammad.
Or do they envy mankind for what Allah hath given them of his bounty? but We had already given the people of Abraham the Book and Wisdom, and conferred upon them a great kingdom.
Am yahsudoona alnnasaAAala ma atahumu Allahu min fadlihifaqad atayna ala ibraheema alkitabawaalhikmata waataynahum mulkan AAatheeman
"And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel
WayuAAallimuhu alkitaba waalhikmatawaalttawrata waal-injeela
By Allah's will they routed them; and David slew Goliath; and Allah gave him power and wisdom and taught him whatever (else) He willed. And did not Allah Check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief But Allah is full of bounty to all the worlds.
Fahazamoohum bi-ithni Allahiwaqatala dawoodu jaloota waatahu Allahualmulka waalhikmata waAAallamahu mimma yashaowalawla dafAAu Allahi alnnasa baAAdahumbibaAAdin lafasadati al-ardu walakinna Allahathoo fadlin AAala alAAalameena
We strengthened his kingdom, and gave him wisdom and sound judgment in speech and decision.
Washadadna mulkahu waataynahualhikmata wafasla alkhitabi
"This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Wisdom."
Thalika natloohu AAalayka mina al-ayatiwaalththikri alhakeemi
Then will Allah say "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said 'This is nothing but evident
Ith qala Allahu yaAAeesa ibna maryama othkur niAAmatee AAalaykawaAAala walidatika ith ayyadtuka biroohialqudusi tukallimu alnnasa fee almahdi wakahlanwa-ith AAallamtuka alkitaba waalhikmatawaalttawrata waal-injeela wa-ithtakhluqu mina altteeni kahay-ati alttayribi-ithnee fatanfukhu feeha fatakoonu tayranbi-ithnee watubri-o al-akmaha waal-abrasabi-ithnee wa-ith tukhriju almawta bi-ithneewa-ith kafaftu banee isra-eela AAanka ithji/tahum bialbayyinati faqala allatheenakafaroo minhum in hatha illa sihrun mubeenun
Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.magic.'
OdAAu ila sabeeli rabbika bialhikmatiwaalmawAAithati alhasanati wajadilhumbiallatee hiya ahsanu inna rabbaka huwa aAAlamubiman dalla AAan sabeelihi wahuwa aAAlamu bialmuhtadeena
Mature wisdom; but (the preaching of) Warners profits them not.
Hikmatun balighatun famatughnee alnnuthuru
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None of the planets & birds follow the conjecture/opinions of any scholars in their salat so why should the foremost creation of Allah?
The planets and birds " " means " they glorified God" . Their salat is different from us and they are supposed just to glorify God because they are without spirits (the soul) .
P.S Off-Topic . Answer the questions or tell me your opinion about the word in the topic as I highlighted that it is the subject .
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peace
I have researched the word hikmah before and came to the conclusion that it means wisdom. Imho it does not make sense to translate it as sunnah / hadith.Ok, I'll use your word wisdom and tell me , is wisdom just words ? If Yes how? and what for ? if No why ? and what for ?
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17/39 These (referring to 17/23-3 are among al-hikmah, which thy Lord has revealed to thee. Take not, with Allah, another object of worship, lest thou shouldst be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected.
ah you didn't tell me are they (referring to 17/23-3 deeds or not ? and how he will perform them ?
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Wisdom is a deep understanding of people, things, events or situations, resulting in the ability to choose or act to consistently produce the optimum results with a minimum of time and energy. Wisdom is the ability to optimally (effectively and efficiently) apply perceptions and knowledge and so produce the desired results. Wisdom is comprehension of what is true or right coupled with optimum judgment as to action. Synonyms include sagacity, discernment, or insight. Wisdom often requires control of one's emotional reactions (the "passions" so that one's principles, reason and knowledge prevail to determine one's actions.
One with Wisdom, is WISE
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Salam all,
This is an easy one
The book by itself can either guide or misguide as per 226- Verily, All?h is not ashamed to set forth a parable even of a mosquito or so much more when it is bigger (or less when it is smaller) than it. And as for those who believe, they know that it is the Truth from their Lord, but as for those who disbelieve, they say "What did All?h intend by this parable?" By it He misleads many, and many He guides thereby. And He misleads thereby only those who are Al-F?siq?n (the rebellious, disobedient to All?h).
well, this an example from God, the believers will understand the example . The non believers and the hypocrites they will not and asking its meanings .
Then as a prophete and messenger, he should have by default the "hikma", the thing that makes you "guided". Anyone can get this "hikma" by Allah's will as per 2269
Peace- He grants Hikmah to whom He pleases, and he, to whom Hikmah is granted, is indeed granted abundant good. But none remember (will receive admonition) except men of understanding.
Can you please me with any interpretation and comprehension of the verse from your side ?
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Thereformer1,
thanks for the verses except you have one problem why does "hikma = sunnah hadith" Shafi was the first to assert such a claim.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8803.0 look at this hadith, telling you the wisdom is the Quran not hadith, isnt that a contradiction in fiqh?I have never read the claims of Sahfi and I've searched for the verse myself then I looked for it in some interpretation from some old and new scholars and as I said I was shocked because I found the same result and it is that Hikma is sunnah which by definition in hadith .
The word "HIKMA" in arabic has a lot of meanings other than wisdom . So think for the link and I hoped the best for you . Now it's up to you to follow what God said or what Satan said .
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- Verily, All?h is not ashamed to set forth a parable even of a mosquito or so much more when it is bigger (or less when it is smaller) than it. And as for those who believe, they know that it is the Truth from their Lord, but as for those who disbelieve, they say "What did All?h intend by this parable?" By it He misleads many, and many He guides thereby. And He misleads thereby only those who are Al-F?siq?n (the rebellious, disobedient to All?h).
well, this an example from God, the believers will understand the example . The non believers and the hypocrites they will not and asking its meanings .
I understand that in this verse He is saying people like YOU have to use hadith to understand the parable. This is not a good example for promoting hadith.- He grants Hikmah to whom He pleases, and he, to whom Hikmah is granted, is indeed granted abundant good. But none remember (will receive admonition) except men of understanding.
Can you please me with any interpretation and comprehension of the verse from your side ?
he grants some with wisdom and some not, those that are granted wisdom will have abundant good and those that are not granted wisdom will be forever looking fo meanings in other books to explain.
side note I have a complaint that in your original post you have added words to Gods Book that were not there in the original Arabic, and you should know that.
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I have never read the claims of Sahfi and I've searched for the verse myself then I looked for it in some interpretation from some old and new scholars and as I said I was shocked because I found the same result and it is that Hikma is sunnah which by definition in hadith .
The word "HIKMA" in arabic has a lot of meanings other than wisdom . So think for the link and I hoped the best for you . Now it's up to you to follow what God said or what Satan said .
As has already been pointed out Allah gave the wisdom (Hikma) to Jesus and many other prophets, that is NOT the sunnah of Muhammed but is the wisdom given by Allah. Your logic says Allah gave the sunnah of Muhammed to Jesus which is not true
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I have never read the claims of Sahfi and I've searched for the verse myself then I looked for it in some interpretation from some old and new scholars and as I said I was shocked because I found the same result and it is that Hikma is sunnah which by definition in hadith .
The word "HIKMA" in arabic has a lot of meanings other than wisdom . So think for the link and I hoped the best for you . Now it's up to you to follow what God said or what Satan said .
see above, Wisdom has a lot of meanings in English too. Seems you are not sure what the English word Wisdom actually means. It does not mean sunnah of muhammed and if you need to to apply to sunnah of anything then its the sunnah of Allah.
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I did a root search for / ha-ka-ma and came across several verses that use the word / hekma.
I can see that -- if you're intent on doing so -- you might interpret hekma as sunna in particular verses where it's used in conjunction with Mohammed. However, the word is used throughout the Qur'an, and in some verses it would not make any sense at all to translate it as hadith or sunna of Muhammad.
Thank you so much for your research, that shows that you want to understand .
ha-ka-ma= Hakama which means a person who is allowed to judge because of a specific criteria of justice in his heart or people say him as juste man .
we say in arabic " " means "this person is Hakim" the word Hakim means two things that this person wisdom or this person knows how to judge because of some qualities of wisdom in his judgement .
So basically this word never can't be juste words alone, it is deeds and reports .
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I've searched for the verse myself then I looked for it in some interpretation from some old and new scholars and as I said I was shocked because I found the same result and it is that Hikma is sunnah which by definition in hadith .
But there are verses that don't make sense if you replace "hikma" with "Muhammad's sunna / hadith". I will do that in some ayat below in order to illustrate what I mean.
Or do they envy mankind for what Allah hath given them of his bounty? but We had already given the people of Abraham the Book and Muhammad's sunna, and conferred upon them a great kingdom.
"And Allah will teach him (Jesus) the Book and Muhammad's sunna, the Law and the Gospel
By Allah's will they routed them; and David slew Goliath; and Allah gave him power and Muhammad's sunna and taught him whatever (else) He willed.
We strengthened his kingdom, and gave him (David) Muhammad's sunna and sound judgment in speech and decision.
"This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Muhammad's sunna."
Then will Allah say "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Muhammad's sunna, the Law and the Gospel and behold! ...
Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with Muhammad's sunna and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.magic.'
Mature Muhammad's sunna; but (the preaching of) Warners profits them not.
How did you came up with your conclusion (that hekma = sunna / hadith) when you thought about the following verses? confused
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Wisdom is a deep understanding of people, things, events or situations, resulting in the ability to choose or act to consistently produce the optimum results with a minimum of time and energy. Wisdom is the ability to optimally (effectively and efficiently) apply perceptions and knowledge and so produce the desired results. Wisdom is comprehension of what is true or right coupled with optimum judgment as to action. Synonyms include sagacity, discernment, or insight. Wisdom often requires control of one's emotional reactions (the "passions" so that one's principles, reason and knowledge prevail to determine one's actions.
One with Wisdom, is WISE
We're talking about wisdom from God and it is always behind the word " the book=Quran" . And it came equal to the book and the Gospel and the Torah . and It is for all prophets . As we know Ibrahim has sunnah, Mussa has sunnah too, Aissa has sunnah as well, and the list is too long , this is the meaning of wisdom in Quran , there other parts in Quran where it stated that wisdom is just wisdom. But when it came equal to his book, sorry it means something else .