Quran vs quranists
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The only winner here is me, every one will enter to this website and read this thread he will see the truth, so don't lie to yourself . I've asked your opinion and your interpretation of a verse and you went looking for Assaad interpretation, and the worst that you deleted the thread and you didn't accept a debate with me and you , you want to cover between guys here . I've showed that you're a christian and you're here to destroy Islam because you don't even speak using Quran .
Just accept it, I'm the better man here. Forget Asad if he pours salt on your wounds so, think of it as me. if you want, I'll go change the asad to savage_carrot...would that make you happy enough to debate, or will you still pout? -
I highly doubt you just read it, obviously i disagree.
I swear I read the part where he mentioned the word HIKMA and he justified it from Quran and from Hdaith as well, I take in rarabic as it seems too strange for you arabic . now the subject is when we disagree we give a proof, not just say I disgree. now bring your proof if you're truthful.
It doesn't say Quran, and what you highlighted isn't the word "mithluhu" so who's hadith is this? bukhari? it has nothing about hikma.
So what does the prophet mean by I was given the book and Mithluhu ? and why God said "giving you the book and the wisdom ?
You didn't prove it, your just giving it that meaning which Shafi attributed, you learnt something new. it's not in hadith it's shafi's opinion that hikma = hadith. if there's not hadith that explains the verses than what's the use of hadith?
First of all I've said that I looked for theinformation myself then I looked for what the old and new scholars said. why they are wrong and you're right .
There are hadith explained some verses. And there are hadith for ligeslations . There are hadith for warning . there are hadith for ..........etc . you name it.
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The only winner here is me, every one will enter to this website and read this thread he will see the truth, so don't lie to yourself . I've asked your opinion and your interpretation of a verse and you went looking for Assaad interpretation, and the worst that you deleted the thread and you didn't accept a debate with me and you , you want to cover between guys here . I've showed that you're a christian and you're here to destroy Islam because you don't even speak using Quran .
You are hilarious
yes people will enter this site and see the truth, I think it should be made a 'sticky' so that it stays at the top for all to see your great debating skills and how you dance. I doubt it will be deleted for those same reasons too.
Now debate savage_carrot,IF you can, and stop whinging
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Just accept it, I'm the better man here. Forget Asad if he pours salt on your wounds so, think of it as me. if you want, I'll go change the asad to savage_carrot...would that make you happy enough to debate, or will you still pout?
whatever, the most important thing is make it in another Thread weather is Assad or carrot . And the discussion will be with me and you . merde you have wasted my time now I have to go to sleep. and Tomorrow please make it the thread if you're truthfull
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sir, didn't you hear it before? Al-hikma i.e. the sunna of the prophet was also sent down by God! means it is included in bima anzalallahu!
Now listen this also
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp09%203.23b.gif
Have you not marked the attitude of those who were given a share from The Bookhttp//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp09%203.23c.gif
when they are asked to refer to the Book of Allah {Grand Qur'aan] so that it resolves and decides amongst them;
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp09%203.23a.gif
they come/refer to it but afterwards one party of them walks away turning their face and they after having seen the Book avoid it.With what judgmet is intended to be made? The Book-Grand Qur'aan.
What our Bukhari and co mongers are doing? Is there any difference what Jews did with Qur'aan?
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No, it is khan who used Bukhari in his translation, not your fault bro! these people won't understand though. good luck.
Thank you so much, They want to hide the truth and to ruin the thread. This carrot have banned me before and have restricted me from writinh hadith but he got my answer . he thinks that I'll feel fear because he is one of the admin, well he better swallow it.
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whatever, the most important thing is make it in another Thread weather is Assad or carrot . And the discussion will be with me and you . merde you have wasted my time now I have to go to sleep. and Tomorrow please make it the thread if you're truthfull
Mon Dieu! the only one wasting their time is yourself. Instead of running away, you could've posted your scandal me. Instead it was just a copy paste of my own post. Big whoop that was, yeah that totally cut the legs from right under me. My own post. Good job that. pat patAs I said, we ain't budging from this here thread buddy. Better come ready and prepared with your silver bullets...same place, same channel.
Thank you so much, They want to hide the truth and to ruin the thread. This carrot have banned me before and have restricted me from writinh hadith but he got my answer . he thinks that I'll feel fear because he is one of the admin, well he better swallow it.
Rh, you really are a character...what, you pm'ed him and told him I'm a man? This was supposed to be our secret, dammit. -
Thank you so much, They want to hide the truth and to ruin the thread. This carrot have banned me before and have restricted me from writinh hadith but he got my answer . he thinks that I'll feel fear because he is one of the admin, well he better swallow it.
and he's got your thread ruined already my friend !!
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Rh, you really are a character...what, you pm'ed him and told him I'm a man? This was supposed to be our secret, dammit.
no, you told him that
I'm the better man here
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Ah I see. My theory was so much more fun. Anyways, gentlemen, start your engines, we attack at dawn.
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When the truth doesn't befit you...run for the hills! Learn something new everyday.
why all the mods are rushing to this thread? btw I thought you got banned coz haven't heard from you since long! welcome
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What, don't tell me you believe the rumours too?
Is inadvertent/accidental refutation/undermining more to your liking then?
It's quite simple really, at the end of the day. There are discussions and then there are discussions. The latter don't fall into the learning/sharing/okay you keep yours, I'll keep mine category. You have someone who's out to ply his trade without sharing, listening, learning. There is no ambiguity about that here. Then again, I'm not surprised that instead of picking up on that and his whimsical two-step, you claim he is the one being undermined.
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But some would say that The Prophet PBUH's job was only to deliver the message. So why would he need Wisdom?
Delivering a message and explaining a message with wisdom are two different duties and responsibilities? No?
For people who are struggling with the topic, maybe you should counter with the following ayats
358 THIS MESSAGE do We convey unto thee, and this tiding full of wisdom
101 Alif Lam. Ra. THESE ARE MESSAGES of the divine writ, full of wisdom.
312 THESE ARE MESSAGES of the divine writ, full of wisdom,
362 Consider this Qur?an full of wisdom
But the problem arises when the Arabic term Book and Wisdom comes into the equation.
Thereformer1 is correct in asking, what is this magic word Wisdom in light of the Quran?
Finally, can someone please explain the following ayat explaining the differences or meanings if any, of revelation, wisdom and prophethood as 3 seperate entities as mentioned or does it mean one and the same thing?
4516 AND, INDEED, unto the children of Israel did We vouchsafe revelation, and wisdom, and prophethood; and We provided for them sustenance out of the good things of life, and favoured them above all other people .
Peace
salam bro, i have been thinking about this. now lets substitute the words Quran and Message with Wallet (assuming we agree that the message IS Quran) and the word Wisdom with Money and look at these verses again.
358 THIS WALLET do We convey unto thee, and this tiding full of MONEY
101 Alif Lam. Ra. THESE ARE WALLETS of the divine writ, full of MONEY.
312 THESE ARE WALLETS of the divine writ, full of MONEY,
362 Consider this WALLET full of MONEY
But the problem arises when the Arabic term WALLET and MONEY comes into the equation.
Now if I have said I have given you a WALLET full of MONEY and then I say I have given you THE WALLET and THE MONEY am I referring to a different lot of MONEY other than the WALLET that is full of MONEY?
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But some would say that The Prophet PBUH's job was only to deliver the message. So why would he need Wisdom?
Firstly would it be WISE of God to deliver a message with a prophet that wasnt also WISE? Without wisdom he could have just heard the message and ignored it, passed it off as a dream, anything. he needed to be wise to know it was the Truth from the creator. I mean can you imagine if Allah had chosen Thereformer to deliver this message? o
Delivering a message and explaining a message with wisdom are two different duties and responsibilities? No?
The explaining is in Quran, the book IS explained in detail as it says it is. The wisdom OF the book is IN the book, as it says it is. His duty was to RECITE these words of Allah, as the book says. Now granted any people without wisdom to see the wisdom IN the book the prophet probably will have had to try to explain to them what it meant, but to those who think and reflect and have wisdom the meaning is there IN the book. So those that need to discover some other way of explanation because they either have no wisdom (and Allah grants to who He wills) and neither think nor reflect will turn to what they think/are told, is an explanation of the book. (hadith/Tafsir)
I have read many hadith, I have read all of Maliks Muwatta and most of Bukhari and I have read many tafsir and using my wisdom, my brain and thinking and reflecting (as Quran tells me to) I can find NO explanation of ANY verse in Quran that makes more sense than using my OWN wisdom and brain. I can find very limited hadith that I could say yes that probably came from the prophet.
Now considering one hadith that the prophet said do NOT write anything down from me BUT Quran I can see why, because he will not BE HERE and the Quran is fully detailed, explained IN detail, as it says it is. he and Allah were both aware that later on people will be attributing sayings to him that he didnt say, this is also IN Quran. They were both also very aware that people would go very astray from the Book, as it says they will. he wanted people to stick to the Book as they should and as is repeated throughout the Book.
ALL hadithists claim that the prophet said not to write anything BUT Quran was because he didnt want it mixed up with Quran while it was being revealed, that im sorry to say, is rubbish as what do we have now but people claiming that hadith IS part of the revelation from Allah and a necessary part of Islam, its NOT.
If you read, think, reflect on its verses then you will gain the wisdom IN IT. If you read, recite and dont THINK and REFLECT on the verses and instead go to another source to find the 'answers' to its meaning you will NEVER gain the wisdom IN IT.
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The only winner here is me, every one will enter to this website and read this thread he will see the truth
http//www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=8242 http//www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=8242 http//www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=8242
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Mon Dieu! the only one wasting their time is yourself. Instead of running away, you could've posted your scandal me. Instead it was just a copy paste of my own post. Big whoop that was, yeah that totally cut the legs from right under me. My own post. Good job that. pat pat
C'est tr?s clear , you are afraid. I copied your post and pasted it for another thread to debate there me and you, and the memebers can watch and read your Assaad words down like a meteor . But your chosen name in this forum didn't lie you're savage carrot.
As I said, we ain't budging from this here thread buddy. Better come ready and prepared with your silver bullets...same place, same channel.
No, ruining thir thread is abvious, and everyone will see this, don't lie to yourself, already people saw this and read that I was more than juste .
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http//www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=8242 http//www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=8242 http//www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=8242
Well, laugh because you can't deny the truth. The thread is too dangerous for this forum and quranists are going down .Wear a cap .
I've another Thread, keep laughing, the next will show all your fallacies .