Quran vs quranists
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If you say so ... & & &
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Exactly. When GOD is mentioned. Not when some person on a message board speaks about the importance of ahadeeth. peace
Well, read the verse . When God is mentioned, is that about Quran ? I think God mentioned Quran later . Ignorance !!
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I don't know why people talk without even a drop of knowledge or even read the verse very well.
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Did I say it's about Qur'an? No. It's about God.
So This is your post (Exactly. When GOD is mentioned. Not when some person on a message board speaks about the importance of ahadeeth. )
is in the thread there is no mention of God ? is in hadeeth there is no mention of God ?
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Yet another key term in the Qur'an is hikmah which is generally translated as wisdom. The Qur'an also uses 'aql, tafakkur and tadabbur which mean reason, thinking and reflection. Thus it will be seen that the Qur'an does not encourage blind following of any dogma or belief at all. It appeals to reason, thinking and reflection. It has also been pointed out by some that the Qur'an emphasises inductive reason and encourages study of nature. The Qur'an says that accept divine guidance after proper thinking and reflection.
Wisdom hikmah in a way is a higher form of reason. Reason is not sufficient by itself as it has no criteria to judge. Thus reason can be used both ways for good as well as for evil. One can use reason to promote self-interest also, as is often done. Reason, it must be noted, is an instrument, not a goal. There is thus great emphasis in modern civilization on reason but not on values. Modern society has thus become totally directionless and the only concern is growth, development and increased gross product. The multi-nationals put reason to their own selfish ends. They do not even hesitate to use undesirable means for their own growth.
But hikmah (wisdom) is reason synthesised with higher values. Hikmah is no mere concern with reason as an instrument but promotion of higher values as a goal. Justice, equity, equality, human dignity, compassion, humanism are some of these higher values which reason should strive to promote. Thus hikmah is higher than reason. Hikmah, however, can never degenerate into unreason. Reason remains its important component. Thus Allah is described by the Qur'an as Hakim, 'Alim and Khabir i.e. Wise, Knower and Informed. Wisdom, knowledge and proper information can never lead to unreason. If any religious belief is based on unreason or irrationality, it must be rejected. Any religious belief must fulfill the criteria of reason and higher values. Such beliefs alone can be compatible with spiritual growth, human values and inner peace and richness.
The root of the word hikmah is h.k.m. which basically means to control and stop crossing the limit with firmness. Thus hakamat in Arabic means reining in the horse in a way which will not allow horse to get out of control (see Kitab al-Ishtiqaq ). The root of hakama also conveys the sense of stopping within the limits so that one does not commit excess. One should know what is the limit beyond which one should not go. And a Haakim is one who properly judges the limit and does not allow the people to cross this limit. Hakim is one who judges the limit. Thus one who is appointed to judge and arbitrate is also called hakam and government is called hukumat because its function is to judge the behaviour of the people and to restrain them from crossing the limits of law.
Allah has been described by the Qur'an as Ahkam al-Hakimin i.e. justest of the just because He lays down the rules of justice and exhorts people not to transcend limits. He is the source of justice and just guidance. And al-hikmah carries the sense of judgement which is just and takes into account the rights of every one and does not violate any ones rights. Hikmah is that which bridles our unjust tendencies and brings about and promotes what is based on proper balance and would stop disorder and mischief. Hikmah is prevention of all that is bad, evil or unjust and violative of what is judged to be right by all.
Qur'an has also been described as Hakeem as it provides guidance to us so that a just social order can be brought into existence which is not violative of descent limits. This alone can lead to a stable society. Thus istihkam (firmness, stability) is also derived from this root because it is only just and balanced society which can remain firm and stability. A society which is not based on these values will experience repeated upheavals and instability.
This it will be seen that the Qur'an lays great emphasis on hikmah (wisdom) as it intends to establish a properly balanced society based on values which ensures growth and development of all human beings and this growth is as much spiritual as material, it should be as much inner as outer material growth. It is this balance between spiritual and material growth which will ensure a humane society. Thus hikmah becomes very fundamental to the Qur'anic discourse. It is, as pointed out before, a synthesis of reason and higher values.
http//static.panjabilok.net/faith/islam/termquran.htm
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C'est tr?s clear , you are afraid. I copied your post and pasted it for another thread to debate there me and you, and the memebers can watch and read your Assaad words down like a meteor . But your chosen name in this forum didn't lie you're savage carrot.
No, ruining thir thread is abvious, and everyone will see this, don't lie to yourself, already people saw this and read that I was more than juste .
Non, now quit playing the village idiot. You like the appeal to majority, now all of a sudden...the wormeth turneth? It is now an appeal to the minority? How many people exactly said "you was more than juste" whatever that means? A dude that hangs around the forum with different usernames waiting on pounce and play upon old grudges, that's who. That's your people. Right. I'm sick and tired of this sort of crap being lobbed all over the forum. This is a place for learning, sharing and in the end, for those that don't agree with the main message of the site, do your own thingy and go away. If you want to stick around in that case, one'd better have something more than their brilliant personality to carry the day is all.
Those that insist on sticking around speaking in tongues claiming the quran said this and that and REFUSE to come up with any evidence from the quran should get well acquainted with Rule 2] Please note that this forum is primarily dedicated to the study and understanding of the Scripture (Quran). Thus, mocking/ridiculing/insulting it and/or not being able to back-up Quranic based claims (i.e. Quran says this or that) with specifics may result in deletion of such posts and/or removal of topic and/or disciplinary action being taken against the offending member.
This is not the first time we have had those that disagree, we have sterling examples in the past of people (yes, note the plural) from different faiths/sects whatnot curious and/or disagreeing, discussing with reasoning/logic, and all around enrichment from the experience. The difference by contrast is...there are those that come here for kicks (time to burn/I have no friends!), for ego stroking (I know kungfu/arabic/hear me roar!), for asserting some delusion of superiority (we are the chosen sect, you're all losers lalalala!), for thinking they are bonafide "warriors of Allah" meant to smite such forums down (ironically with no evidence from the quran itself but who needs that when one has "hikma" where they can find whatever they want eh?)
Now you have a choice. Either post your evidence from the quran for your claims on this thread, or slink away into the sunset.
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A dude that hangs around the forum with different usernames waiting on pounce and play upon old grudges, that's who.
And boasting about teaching hundreds of people about Islam on another forum, although fact is he just did the same as he did here ... insulting everyone who disagrees or has a serious question.
Yeah sure, I've been in another Forum and they have asked me millions of questions and I answered but I didn't wait another millions of questions, so I did cancel my account . and you know one of the guys that I have talked to him(he was an atheist) and he got all his questions from this forum and he gave me the link.
...P.S millions of questions was a metaphore, but I might have answered more than 10.000 questions .
Using deception and dishonesty ... that's not really the appropriate behaviour for someone who claims to be a pious Muslim with a desire to bring people to Islam.
nope nope nope
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Yet another key term in the Qur'an is hikmah which is generally translated as wisdom. The Qur'an also uses 'aql, tafakkur and tadabbur which mean reason, thinking and reflection. Thus it will be seen that the Qur'an does not encourage blind following of any dogma or belief at all. It appeals to reason, thinking and reflection. It has also been pointed out by some that the Qur'an emphasises inductive reason and encourages study of nature. The Qur'an says that accept divine guidance after proper thinking and reflection.
Yes, Quran described as Hakim, no something new . look the word "described" as HAKIM .
Wisdom hikmah in a way is a higher form of reason. Reason is not sufficient by itself as it has no criteria to judge. Thus reason can be used both ways for good as well as for evil. One can use reason to promote self-interest also, as is often done. Reason, it must be noted, is an instrument, not a goal. There is thus great emphasis in modern civilization on reason but not on values. Modern society has thus become totally directionless and the only concern is growth, development and increased gross product. The multi-nationals put reason to their own selfish ends. They do not even hesitate to use undesirable means for their own growth.
But hikmah (wisdom) is reason synthesised with higher values. Hikmah is no mere concern with reason as an instrument but promotion of higher values as a goal. Justice, equity, equality, human dignity, compassion, humanism are some of these higher values which reason should strive to promote. Thus hikmah is higher than reason. Hikmah, however, can never degenerate into unreason. Reason remains its important component. Thus Allah is described by the Qur'an as Hakim, 'Alim and Khabir i.e. Wise, Knower and Informed. Wisdom, knowledge and proper information can never lead to unreason. If any religious belief is based on unreason or irrationality, it must be rejected. Any religious belief must fulfill the criteria of reason and higher values. Such beliefs alone can be compatible with spiritual growth, human values and inner peace and richness.He talks about wisdom as a form of reason, and reason is not sufficient and don't forget that he didn't explain reason .A contraduction of terms .
The root of the word hikmah is h.k.m. which basically means to control and stop crossing the limit with firmness.
No, wrong, the root is Ha'a-kaf-Meem, and it does not mean control or stop crossing the limits as he claimed, it seems that he never read a word in arabic . I've explained the word Hakama before . control is "Tahakama or saytara".
Thus hakamat in Arabic means reining in the horse in a way which will not allow horse to get out of control (see Kitab al-Ishtiqaq ).
That was funny . that shows that this person never heard Arabic before .
Firs of all hakamat means a female governs a (country or an empire or whatever ..etc)
Second of all the word which means reining the horse in a way wich will not allow horse to get out of control is "" and without a sentence will not mean reining any horse this is the sentence " " means (reining the horse .....of control)
The root of hakama also conveys the sense of stopping within the limits so that one does not commit excess.
The root means nothing, the root is letters . and with gathering the root also means nothing if it is not in a sentence to mean that . The word alone hakama means (to judge) or (to govern) .
One should know what is the limit beyond which one should not go.
That will be this word " "
And a Haakim is one who properly judges the limit and does not allow the people to cross this limit.
Haakim means wise man . Hakem means governor .
the one who properly judges called "" or "" .
Hakim is one who judges the limit.
Hakim is the governor and it is not with "i" is Hakem.
Thus one who is appointed to judge and arbitrate is also called hakam and government is called hukumat because its function is to judge the behaviour of the people and to restrain them from crossing the limits of law.
This is right and it's contradict whith what he said before .
Allah has been described by the Qur'an as Ahkam al-Hakimin i.e. justest of the just because He lays down the rules of justice and exhorts people not to transcend limits. He is the source of justice and just guidance. And al-hikmah carries the sense of judgement which is just and takes into account the rights of every one and does not violate any ones rights. Hikmah is that which bridles our unjust tendencies and brings about and promotes what is based on proper balance and would stop disorder and mischief. Hikmah is prevention of all that is bad, evil or unjust and violative of what is judged to be right by all.
AL-HIKMA in what ? is that the word The HIkma that came after the book of Allah means this ? if Yes , why it came after the boook of Allah and we know that God already described his book by Hakim ? what is the difference ?
Qur'an has also been described as Hakeem as it provides guidance to us so that a just social order can be brought into existence which is not violative of descent limits. This alone can lead to a stable society. Thus istihkam (firmness, stability) is also derived from this root because it is only just and balanced society which can remain firm and stability. A society which is not based on these values will experience repeated upheavals and instability.
Yes, this is not new , Quran has a lot of describtion one of them is HIKMA, so it is a description but about this "the book and the hikma" let me remind you that it is not description .
This it will be seen that the Qur'an lays great emphasis on hikmah (wisdom) as it intends to establish a properly balanced society based on values which ensures growth and development of all human beings and this growth is as much spiritual as material, it should be as much inner as outer material growth. It is this balance between spiritual and material growth which will ensure a humane society. Thus hikmah becomes very fundamental to the Qur'anic discourse. It is, as pointed out before, a synthesis of reason and higher values.
Well, we know that we can extract Hikma from Quran and from any place and from any man and from the word . is this need a book to tell us about that matter wich is in our extinct ? God described his Quran by a lot of describtion one of it is Hakim and it is not a noun. But when he mentioned this word as a noun what does he meant ? The booK and the wisdom . there is a difference between the noun and the description .
There is a lot of description of Quran in Quran but are they came this way "the book and the XXXX(descrption).
You take your lessons from someone has a lot of mistakes and he does not get the word right . what a shame .
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Non, now quit playing the village idiot. You like the appeal to majority, now all of a sudden...the wormeth turneth? It is now an appeal to the minority? How many people exactly said "you was more than juste" whatever that means? A dude that hangs around the forum with different usernames waiting on pounce and play upon old grudges, that's who. That's your people. Right. I'm sick and tired of this sort of crap being lobbed all over the forum. This is a place for learning, sharing and in the end, for those that don't agree with the main message of the site, do your own thingy and go away. If you want to stick around in that case, one'd better have something more than their brilliant personality to carry the day is all.
Those that insist on sticking around speaking in tongues claiming the quran said this and that and REFUSE to come up with any evidence from the quran should get well acquainted with Rule 2] Please note that this forum is primarily dedicated to the study and understanding of the Scripture (Quran). Thus, mocking/ridiculing/insulting it and/or not being able to back-up Quranic based claims (i.e. Quran says this or that) with specifics may result in deletion of such posts and/or removal of topic and/or disciplinary action being taken against the offending member.
This is not the first time we have had those that disagree, we have sterling examples in the past of people (yes, note the plural) from different faiths/sects whatnot curious and/or disagreeing, discussing with reasoning/logic, and all around enrichment from the experience. The difference by contrast is...there are those that come here for kicks (time to burn/I have no friends!), for ego stroking (I know kungfu/arabic/hear me roar!), for asserting some delusion of superiority (we are the chosen sect, you're all losers lalalala!), for thinking they are bonafide "warriors of Allah" meant to smite such forums down (ironically with no evidence from the quran itself but who needs that when one has "hikma" where they can find whatever they want eh?)
Now you have a choice. Either post your evidence from the quran for your claims on this thread, or slink away into the sunset.My thread is full of Quranic based claims , you can't deny that, it is you who speak without a verse and you can't back up Quranic based claims . You like to talk and just to talk . I stiil carry the challenge one thread me and you and Quran. About those who disagree with you or with the forum were not as they supposed to be, I'm better and just to make it clear for you, no chance to defeat me in your own part of the world .
The thread is full of verses, did you come up with one disagree with what I said ? sorry the answer is no . I read the forum rules , so I hold the stick from the middle .
You want to defeat me, here we go I'm challenging in a thread me and you with Quran alone, no use of any hadith.
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Right -- I'd better take my advice from someone who is a liar, like you.
Yes, sure thing because everything you wrote is wrong . I know that The is too hard for you . A man shocked you because he just shows you that you're living in a lie of claiming that you follow Quran .
Even your best sources are full of mistakes and distortion of the words and Quran.
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Interesting how such a big fat mysterious issue has been made of "the wisdom different from wisdom" in the quran.
Consider 1912 "O John, you shall uphold the scripture, strongly." We endowed him with wisdom, even in his youth.
Yeah, he was given a collection of his own best actions/mannerisms/rules/laws/etc for the rest of his ordained life (leatherbound with gold accents) for future pious believers to follow, in his youth...other than the scripture obviously.
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hmm hmm hmm
Anyone here , ohhhoooooo
look at this ( Wisdom is in a way a form of reason. Reason is not sufficient by itself) . So if reason is not sufiicient by itself and wisdom is in a way a form of reason, so wisdom is a way not sufficient by itself too .
1+x=2
x=1 not 0 not 2 not any other number . if we take the logic of this guy x can be any number .
1(wisdom) is in a way a form of 2 (reason). but 2 is not sufficient by itself . how come the last result which is 2(reason) not be sufficient and we know that 1 is a form of it ? 1+1=2
P.S This not the subject .
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Prove it. Show us the "more than 10.000" questions you answered. If you can't, it is clear that you are a liar.
You want the forum(I was thinking that this subject died) , hahaha , anyways sorry I can't give you the website . I'm registred in a lot of furoms but this one( thet you want) is my beloved, I'll not give it to you.
P.S This forum is for Quran is not, I'm using Quran, as I see no one here use Quran .
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Of course you can't because it would expose your lies.
And why it will expose my lies ? if I lie , I lied to myself and God will decide not you . so your trick will not work .