Why is it both Jews and Muslim deny Jesus is the Son of God, Jehovah's Son?
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I have heard that in the Koran there is 64 places or more places that you are suppose to use the Torah, the book of Psalms and the Gospel. In essence it is saying to go by the bible and that it is Jehovah God's Inspired Word. I know for a fact you do not believe in the Trinity that false Christianity goes by. The Jew's Killed Jesus on false claims of blasphemy. What is the difference then between you and the Jews? You guys say he is not Jehovah God's son also but a prophet. Muslims are doing the same thing as the Jews basically did to Jehovah God's Son. Think about it? He fulfilled all the bible prophesy for the Son of God to fulfill while on earth. Let's see what bible prophesy did Muhammad fulfill of all the prophesies while he was around? What did he do? Ride the donkey into Jerusalem? Is that all?
You guys in the past already told me God's true name in English is Jehovah. So we know that he is not Jesus. That is a fact because in the book of John it says he is the first born of all creation. Jehovah God had no beginning and has no end so he was not a creation. Jesus in his pre-human existence as God's true Son did have a creation according to the book of John. A book that is part of the Gospel you are suppose to follow according to the Koran. Jesus also when on earth quoted from other books that are not in your Torah which means those other books you will not accept are also part of the truth, Not Just the book of Psalms in the Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus would say "it is written" when quoting. Correct me if I am wrong but I do not think so? What I am doing right now is questioning things.
Another thing that bothers me here. Ramadan? or however it is spelled? Was that before the apostles and Jesus or after? Exactly what is Ramadan. I now it was before Muhammad's day. What is it really and how does it fit into the scheme of things that Jehovah has in store for mankind? I have more questions but let's start here for now?
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I have heard that in the Koran there is 64 places or more places that you are suppose to use the Torah, the book of Psalms and the Gospel. In essence it is saying to go by the bible and that it is Jehovah God's Inspired Word. I know for a fact you do not believe in the Trinity that false Christianity goes by. The Jew's Killed Jesus on false claims of blasphemy. What is the difference then between you and the Jews? You guys say he is not Jehovah God's son also but a prophet. Muslims are doing the same thing as the Jews basically did to Jehovah God's Son. Think about it? He fulfilled all the bible prophesy for the Son of God to fulfill while on earth. Let's see what bible prophesy did Muhammad fulfill of all the prophesies while he was around? What did he do? Ride the donkey into Jerusalem? Is that all?
You guys in the past already told me God's true name in English is Jehovah. So we know that he is not Jesus. That is a fact because in the book of John it says he is the first born of all creation. Jehovah God had no beginning and has no end so he was not a creation. Jesus in his pre-human existence as God's true Son did have a creation according to the book of John. A book that is part of the Gospel you are suppose to follow according to the Koran. Jesus also when on earth quoted from other books that are not in your Torah which means those other books you will not accept are also part of the truth, Not Just the book of Psalms in the Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus would say "it is written" when quoting. Correct me if I am wrong but I do not think so? What I am doing right now is questioning things.
Another thing that bothers me here. Ramadan? or however it is spelled? Was that before the apostles and Jesus or after? Exactly what is Ramadan. I now it was before Muhammad's day. What is it really and how does it fit into the scheme of things that Jehovah has in store for mankind? I have more questions but let's start here for now?
Peace,
"Son of God" in hebrew does not mean "The biological son of the God", that just mean "creation of God" as you are and I am, and we all are. Other people in the Bible are mentionned also as "Sons of God".
Havig said that, you will need to re-think all your faith!Regarding the scriptures, I am sorry to tell you the following
The Gospel you know are not the words of The God, this is a fact, and no one refute it, even christians.
The Gospel of the Quran says it is the true "word of God", so we are not talking about the same book. So we as muslims wil not follow "your" Gospel.
Same for the Thora.
Regarding Fasting, it was commanded to the "people of the books", so it includes a time even before the Gospel was revealed.Peace
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There is not a single verse anywhere in any bible where jesus is quoted as saying that "i am god and worship me". it is always others who are putting words in his mouth. the term son of god, as explained above, in judaism is used for people who are righteous, exalted or teachers. bible has sons by the tons.....israel, adam, david, ephrahim...are all mentioned as sons of god.
confronted with this undeniable fact, the scribes then inserted the word "begotten" in John 316 and made jesus as the literal biological son of god. as time went by, people started to ask questions that how can a divine and coequal god in a trinity come out of a woman's body? long story short....the word "begotten" has been thrown out of the bible now...not in the KJV but from the more recent and contemporary translations...(RSV, NRSV, NIV etc). Top christian scholars themselves now agree that it was a fabrication. some translations now call jesus as the "unique" son of god. the question remains...WHY GOD NEEDS A SON? OK..first he imposes sin of someone to all mankind, and then to rid of that sin, crucifies his own son in blood for them.....this sounds utterly illogical. The bible is clear that "the soul that sins, dies" and "sin of father is not on the son and vice versa".
Jesus was ONLY a prohet of God, a messenger, God's word and his beloved. Not his son.
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Hi Hawk
- English "Son Of God" is a translation from Greek "Huios Theos" which are also a translation from Hebrew "Ben Elohym".
- In Hebrew / Israelites cultural context the term "Ben Elohym" doesn't literally means "Birth son / descendant" of God thus also a God. The term "Ben Elohym" (singular) actually means "God's Man" and "Beney Elohym" (plural) means "God's People".
- Jesus himself describes what does Beney Elohym thus Ben Elohym really means
"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God (Hebrew Beney Elohym)", Matt 59 - The jews DID NOT killed Jesus, Jesus was being crucified by the Romans, as requested by Judaism Council Of Priests (Sanhedrin) for heresy from Rabbanic Judaism religion.
- If you read the Gospel thoroughly, you can read that the common jews (minus the rabbanic priests) actually loved Jesus! And why shouldn't they? Jesus and his companion was giving them "free medical services".
- Jesus was so popular among common jews, up to the point that it will threaten the power of "Religious Authority", thus they devise some scheme to "get rid of him".
- In Quran, Jesus is described as one of "God's man", a messenger (delivering message from God), a prophet (his mouth speak words from God) and set forth as a 'good example' to follow.
- In Quran, Jesus's cousin John is also described as one of "God's man" a messenger (delivering message from God), a prophet (his mouth speak words from God) and set forth as a 'good example' to follow.
- In Quran, there's an instruction on not to differentiate between "God's man" (i.e. Jesus, John, Abraham, Muhammad, Moses and many others who were not directly referenced by name) as they're all God's agent and each had a role to play within God's design.
- According to Quran, God has sent many messengers to each group of people on earth, and the messenger were usually picked among those people. (i.e. Japanese messenger for the japanese, Chinese messenger for the chinese, Indians messenger for the Indian etc..)
- In Quran it is said that God doesn't have a "true name", people around the globe call Him by many names Father, God, Allah/Eloah (The God), Elohym, YHVH (He Who Is), Ahura Mazda (The Great Wisdom), Great Spirit etc.. All of the good names belong to Him.
- Ramadhan (The 9th month) was considered as "holy month" in Quran.
You may found this articles interesting
http//www.ccg.org/english/s/p053.html
http//www.alsadiqin.org/history/The%20Islamic%20Jewish%20Calendar.pdf
Also in the Quran there's also explanation that God has enacted rites to each group of people (Arabic Ummat) which they shall follow. And we should not debate on its differences but yet invite every people to became closer to God. A good example of this is of course the "sabbath day" in Judaism.
"For every group of people/community (arabic Ummat) We have appointed rites which they shall perform. therefore they should not dispute with you about the matter and call them to your Lord; most surely you are on a right way"
(2267)Salam / Shalom / Peace
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I see a lot of Muslim websites in which people call themselves God's children.
I think a lot of the argument could be settled if people could just agree that this is a kind poetic endearment, not to be taken in such a literal sense. Of course God doesn't 'beget'. God is not a human.
There was a division in Christianity, in fact, over the issue of Trinity etc. (which is not in the Bible, to the best of my knowledge). It is said that Constantine himself converted outside of the Trinitarian circle.
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Peace,
The Bible uses "son(s) of the god" to talk about good, righteous people. The great reading (al-quran al-adhim) categorically rejects this kind of terminology. Bear in mind that Arabic is Semitic like Hebrew, but we find the great reading making no excuse for such a nonsense idiom
518 The Jews and the Nazarenes said, "We are the sons of the god and his beloved." Say, "Then why does he punish you for your sins? No! You are humans from what he created."
The god loves the righteous, but not enough to degrade himself in calling them his children. To be a "son of the god" is considered something superhuman - something supernatural - by the great reading.
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Dear Hawk,
The question of GOD having sons or children boils down to our definition of GOD Himself.
One of GOD?S attributes is being RICH/NOT NEEDY, 1068, 3126, 3515, and?
The Qur?aan tells us that it is not worthy of GOD to have any offspring, 4171. Why? The answer is very simple. GOD is NOT needy.
Let us start a logical argument regarding the subject.
What is the purpose behind the living to have offspring in the first place, including mankind? Let?s just stay with the human among other living creatures. What happens if man does not beget children? He will become extinct. Right?
Why extinction? He is mortal. Right? So in order for man not to die down as a species, he needs to reproduce.
Begetting is an evolutionary NECESSITY specific to the MORTAL animal kingdom not to become extinct.
Based on the above logical argument, does GOD need to have children? No. He is NOT MORTAL. He is the LINVING, the ETERNAL 2255.
Conclusion GOD does NOT have any NEED at all, including the need to have offspring.
4381, Say if the GRACIOUS/ALLAH had any child/offspring, then I?d be among the first of worshippers (i.e. worshipper of the child/offspring too). Why? The offspring is of the father?s essence, and ultimately his successor.
GOD DOES NOT NEED ANY SUCCESSOR, PARTNER, and or EQUAL. HE IS IMORTAL. HE IS THE LIVING, THE ETERNAL.
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace,
The Bible uses "son(s) of the god" to talk about good, righteous people. The great reading (al-quran al-adhim) categorically rejects this kind of terminology. Bear in mind that Arabic is Semitic like Hebrew, but we find the great reading making no excuse for such a nonsense idiom
518 The Jews and the Nazarenes said, "We are the sons of the god and his beloved." Say, "Then why does he punish you for your sins? No! You are humans from what he created."
The god loves the righteous, but not enough to degrade himself in calling them his children. To be a "son of the god" is considered something superhuman - something supernatural - by the great reading.
"And the Jews and the Christians say We are the sons of God and His beloved ones. Then say Why does He then punished you for your faults? Nay, you are men from among those whom He has created, He forgives whom He pleases and punished whom He pleases; and to God's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, and to Him is the eventual coming." (51
I don't see that the Quran rejects the terminology in the above verse..
What I see is that the Quran rejects "such proud claim" from the sectarian Jews and Christians.
Just because somebody is a member of Jews or Christian sect (or any other sect such as Sunni/Shiites/Quranites and others) doesn't mean that they're God's children / God's beloved.
If they do good.. well.. perhaps, if they do bad then God will still punish them for their faults.Thus the above verse clearly explained the criteria to be God's beloved / God's childrens (read God's people) is not related to which sect does a man belongs to, but it relates to their deeds. Everyone will get what they deserves.
Salam / Peace
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518 The Jews and the Nazarenes said, "We are the sons of the god and his beloved." Say, "Then why does he punish you for your sins? No! You are humans from what he created."
a father doesn't punish his children if they sin?
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Peace,
The Bible uses "son(s) of the god" to talk about good, righteous people. The great reading (al-quran al-adhim) categorically rejects this kind of terminology. Bear in mind that Arabic is Semitic like Hebrew, but we find the great reading making no excuse for such a nonsense idiom
518 The Jews and the Nazarenes said, "We are the sons of the god and his beloved." Say, "Then why does he punish you for your sins? No! You are humans from what he created."
The god loves the righteous, but not enough to degrade himself in calling them his children. To be a "son of the god" is considered something superhuman - something supernatural - by the great reading.
Bro, we're talking about a period in history when the Christian Church itself was greatly divided over the issue, to the point of hostile conflict. The Old Testament also quotes God as saying that he has proclaimed his people as gods and that he sits in council among the gods and so on...
Semetic writing doesn't use "it" to describe a thing. Like many languages, it attaches a gender to each word.
God is not a male and it is not a human. What you call The God... I call The Creator. It is, essentially, the same thing.
This is the point, here. And what the great reading and Islam itself is rejecting is the human arrogance which has divided people, divided "God" and found them attempting to recreate it in their own image(s).Thus, the end of Mecca as it was known. Much like Jesus going through the temple with a whip and stick.
It's about idolatry."Degradation" by relationship to humanity is pushing it a bit, don't you think?
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Peace
Part of the misunderstanding of the book revealed to Jesus arise from its translations to Greek and subsequently to English. To get a better understanding of some of the original text it is important to examine what was in the original Aramaic text.
Following link provides few instances of such corruption from the original language.
http//home.comcast.net/~rzuberi/articles/Being_Like_The_Teacher.pdf
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Yes.
Understanding Greek culture/history and its relationship to the Levant, to any extent at all, is rather valuable in trying to sort these mysteries as well.
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Thanks for this discussion. God be praised.