Who are Al-kafirun ?
-
but the verse says nothing about HIM being an object of worship, which your translation does revolve around.
Its saying I dont worship what YOU worship and you dont worship what I worship, nothing about muhammed being an object of worship not in ANY translation and not in the Arabic! ???
for a start this
"Wake you, lethargics in unwise actions, the ones hiding the sufficient and fulfilling knowledge; due to the denial of facts and the ingratitude to all benevolent acts. Think with your mind, and then make it manifest in your actions. "is not what the first verse says. It starts with Qul = Say, not "wake you lethargics in unwise actions" and the rest is, well I dont know what to say. ???
-
The whole message, is an address to all humans for all times, from our Rabb. Why should there be a meaning of Mohammad? Where do you get meanings of Mohammad in this verse/Sura, even in the tradition translation. Is there any word, which be could translated as Mohammad?
In addition, if this is an eternal message, which it is. Who it was implying to, before Mohammad? It is very apparent that Rabb is telling that, he is not an object for worship. Neither, he wants us to be worshipers and servants.
Peace,
Badar
-
The whole message, is an address to all humans for all times, from our Rabb. Why should there be a meaning of Mohammad? Where do you get meanings of Mohammad in this verse/Sura, even in the tradition translation. Is there any word, which be could translated as Mohammad?
In addition, if this is an eternal message, which it is. Who it was implying to, before Mohammad? It is very apparent that Rabb is telling that, he is not an object for worship. Neither, he wants us to be worshipers and servants.
Peace,
Badar
Well I assumed, quite wrongly it seems, that you couldnt possibly be speaking about Allah who says quite clearly all through Quran Torah and Gospel that He created us to worship HIM. We are servants to HIM. so how you get this verse to mean the total opposite I cant imagine.
109.001
YUSUFALI Say O ye that reject Faith!
109.002
YUSUFALI I worship not that which ye worship,
109.003
YUSUFALI Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109.004
YUSUFALI And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
109.005
YUSUFALI Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109.006
YUSUFALI To you be your Way, and to me mine. -
Well I assumed, quite wrongly it seems, that you couldnt possibly be speaking about Allah who says quite clearly all through Quran Torah and Gospel that He created us to worship HIM. We are servants to HIM. so how you get this verse to mean the total opposite I cant imagine.
109.001
YUSUFALI Say O ye that reject Faith!
109.002
YUSUFALI I worship not that which ye worship,
109.003
YUSUFALI Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109.004
YUSUFALI And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
109.005
YUSUFALI Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109.006
YUSUFALI To you be your Way, and to me mine.Dear please read this to understand the word Allah first. This has been on this forum for any one to try to prove it wrong linguistically.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599853.0
Peace,
Badar
-
Dear please read this to understand the word Allah first. This has been on this forum for any one to try to prove it wrong linguistically.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599853.0
Peace,
Badar
Thank you, just read it and had a look around the site it came from for a minute or two
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/129/162/
until I came across this in the article The Five Pillows of IslamThe shahada
Simply articulate a single sentence and all your troubles are behind you, with the power of faith, ?a?hadu 'al-l ilha ill-llhu wa 'a?hadu 'anna muhammadan raslu-llh?, translated it reads, ?I testify that there is no god (ilah). (There is) only Allah (Not God), and I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah?, an alternative translation is,?No Illah (God) except for one who is Not Illah (God)?.I then went on and found the site has its own translation of Quran, here is surah one
(Literal The opening)
Surah 11
This is the timeless sign conveying the knowledge from the One, who is not a deity for worship and adoration. About the abundant and effortless state of life that mankind cannot conceive by themselves, from your sustainer and maintainer. The greatest mercy from the One.
Surah 12
The decree for all width and breadth of land, on account of the One, who is not a deity for worship and adoration. One rearing, fostering, nourishing and accomplishing all created beings, capable of acquiring knowledge.
Surah 13
The abundant and effortless state of life, that mankind cannot conceive of by themselves, from your sustainer and maintainer. The greatest mercy from One-
Surah 14
- which is with you at all times, for you to follow.
Surah 15
Be aware, we do not want you to be servants and worshippers; therefore you shall keep yourself clear of this pain in future.
Surah 16
You must not break and demolish the path, which is original and most straight, undeviating and unceasing.
Surah 17
The original and straight path is pleasant and delightful on which, I make life easy. I have set a banner and a standard for you, to avoid irreparable damage to yourselves. Who become angry and revengeful with this path, will be greatly confounded and perplexed; even unable to see the right course.
If your 'the One' is NOT a deity to be worshipped then I dont have time to waste reading more and thank you for opening my eyes to the lengths some people will go to lead people away from the Path of Allah/The God/The ONLY ONE to be worshipped. It is a scary thought that sites like this exist and those searching for truth may come across this and dismiss Islam due to its clear contradiction of the Word of God/Allah/The One and mistranslations which I can only assume come from the Devil himself.
edit This makes NO sense at all ?No Illah (God) except for one who is Not Illah (God)?.
No God except for one who is NOT God?? ???
-
If your 'the One' is NOT a deity to be worshipped then I dont have time to waste reading more and thank you for opening my eyes to the lengths some people will go to lead people away from the Path of Allah/The God/The ONLY ONE to be worshipped. It is a scary thought that sites like this exist and those searching for truth may come across this and dismiss Islam due to its clear contradiction of the Word of God/Allah/The One and mistranslations which I can only assume come from the Devil himself.
edit This makes NO sense at all ?No Illah (God) except for one who is Not Illah (God)?.
No God except for one who is NOT God?? ???
Dear what is highlighted in red is the problem. But you are not alone. Until, though one is willing to break these shackles of all religion. They shall continue in their state. That is why Rabb said this, in the end.
Surah 109 6
For you all are your traditions and customs, and for Me are mine.
Just a point, to ponder about. Mindless project the success of Western civilization to secularization (worldly/materialistic approach). However, if one were to study the Modernization and scholars of Modern thought of west. This is exactly what were the thoughts, they promoted and a significant part of west did adopt it. That is ?No deity for adoration worship?. Purpose of human creation is not worship or adoration. But acquisition of knowledge and striving for social justice, above and beyond limits of creed, color, nations and even, yes religions too.
Peace,
Badar
-
http//The whole message, is an address to all humans for all times, from our Rabb. Why should there be a meaning of Mohammad? Where do you get meanings of Mohammad in this verse/Sura, even in the tradition translation. Is there any word, which be could translated as Mohammad ?
He Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam is here in this word if you try to accept and understand the abc of Arabic.
-
He Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam is here in this word if you try to accept and understand the abc of Arabic.
Peace, he does not need to come back Dear. However, he left the message for you and me to understand and follow. Are you willing to give up your ancestors blind following, like he did?
Badar
-
Peace, he does not need to come back Dear. However, he left the message for you and me to understand and follow. Are you willing to give up your ancestors blind following, like he did?
Badar
He left the Message in words of Arabic language. And one has to read it and follow it but it does not permit one to remove away "Qul" and starting writing his own thoughts and whispers.
He Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam is here in this word if you try to accept and understand the abc of Arabic.
-
http//The whole message, is an address to all humans for all times, from our Rabb. Why should there be a meaning of Mohammad? Where do you get meanings of Mohammad in this verse/Sura, even in the tradition translation. Is there any word, which be could translated as Mohammad ?
He Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam is here in this word if you try to accept and understand the abc of Arabic.
It seem that all translations and the above post relate to the assumption that the Prophet(S) is being told to say to "someone something"with the use of word " Qul "
While it seem that the translation of " Qul " in first post in this thread is being done as " Think with your mind, and then (say, and not only say, but ) make it manifest in your actions".
This translation of Qul used here comes from details given in Lanes towards Qul, and hence is suggested as not just being addressed by our Creator to the Prophet(S) alone, but to all those who can think and understand and then move on to act whatever needs to be said and done.
As I am understanding from the use of this word " Qul " here, is that after the stage of " Think with your mind, and then make it manifest in your actions ", it is being said which in detail analysis is presented to mean "Wake you, lethargics in unwise actions, the ones hiding the sufficient and fulfilling knowledge; due to the denial of facts and the ingratitude to all benevolent acts."Please tell me if I am assessing it correctly based on the initial post in the thread
Peace
-
It seem that all translations and the above post relate to the assumption that the Prophet(S) is being told to say to "someone something"with the use of word " Qul "
While it seem that the translation of " Qul " in first post in this thread is being done as " Think with your mind, and then (say, and not only say, but ) make it manifest in your actions".
This translation of Qul used here comes from details given in Lanes towards Qul, and hence is suggested as not just being addressed to the Prophet(S) alone, but to all those who can think and understand and then move on to say whatever needs to be said.
As I am understanding from the use of this word " Qul " here, is that after the stage of " Think with your mind, and then make it manifest in your actions ", you go ahaed and say which in detail analysis is presented to mean "Wake you, lethargics in unwise actions, the ones hiding the sufficient and fulfilling knowledge; due to the denial of facts and the ingratitude to all benevolent acts."Please tell me if I am assessing it correctly based on the initial post in the threadPeace
Dear kn, I have posted on this before , is an imperative, from root verb . Since 2nd letter is Waw. It is a weak verb, classified in grammatical terms as Ajwaf. First rule of Ajwaf says if second letter of a root are Waw or Yaa and have any short vowel upon those. i.e., Fetha, Dumma, Kesra, and preceding letters have Fetha. Both Waw and Ya will change into Alif. Hence, written as . Now imperative, meaning a word implying command is longer in actual script, but due few rules of grammar, is written as ,
Most people traditionally translate this as only "Say". However, what they do not take into account is; that this root belongs to what Arab grammarians called "verbs of mind". What do we do with mind? We think. Don't we?(I am not talking of mindless idiots). What ever we say we think before (in principle people with mind do and should), don't we? Our words and actions are reflection of our thoughts. Aren?t those?
So to summarize, a verb of mind starts as thought, and then should manifest in ones words and action. All words and action without thought are action of animals, without mind like humans.
Peace,
Badar
-
Dear kn, I have posted on this before , is an imperative, from root verb .
that is not a root, that is a word using that root. Root letters have no vowels, vowels make the root letters into words like the one you posted. Your root says 'qa-wa-la'Since 2nd letter is Waw. It is a weak verb,
Do you mean an irregular verb?classified in grammatical terms as Ajwaf. First rule of Ajwaf says if second letter of a root are Waw or Yaa and have any short vowel upon those. i.e., Fetha, Dumma, Kesra, and preceding letters have Fetha.
The second letter does not have any of those 'upon' it and the preceeding does not have Fatha on it. Not in the Arabic Quran anyway, although your root letters do. )
Both Waw and Ya will change into Alif. Hence, written as . Now imperative, meaning a word implying command is longer in actual script, but due few rules of grammar, is written as ,
that says Qaal, not Qul. Alif and fatha is a long aa, nothing else.Most people traditionally translate this as only "Say". However, what they do not take into account is; that this root belongs to what Arab grammarians called "verbs of mind". What do we do with mind? We think. Don't we?(I am not talking of mindless idiots). What ever we say we think before (in principle people with mind do and should), don't we? Our words and actions are reflection of our thoughts. Aren?t those?
this root belongs to speech, not mind or condition of mind. call, speak, utter, discourse, transmit. -
Let me give you both the answer from our Rabb. Then at later point will try to give Arabic lesson, that you are not very intrested in because you already know it all.
Peace,
Badar
Surah 1051
Why do not you perceive through your eyes and mind, how everything originated from your Rabb (Sustainer, Maintainer, Fosterer and Accomplisher); those ones who are containing error, weak in judgements and opinions side by side with their accomplices and companions.
Surah 1052
Has not the One created and brought all into existence, and yet they deceive, beguile and circumvent this. This causes them to be in error and to stray from the right course and true path.
Surah 1053
And whenever ease was brought upon them, due to the message; they fled from it, as dispersed multitudes, each blindly following another.
Surah 1054
They cast away the message from their grasp, furthermore to the extreme they hinder, prevent and prohibit others from what is in this written declaration.
Surah 1055
Consequently their existence will become like digested food blown away by violent winds.
-
Who is that grammarian who makes imperative verb from perfect verb?
Dear Mazhar, do not act silly. You know it well, so do I, that, how imperative is formed, from a given root.
Would you like to define this term, giving its Arabic equivalent, and quoting some verbs of this category?
In Arabic these are called . If you have learned this term yet, please look up Wright vol ii, pages 48D.
Badar
-
Dear Mazhar, do not act silly. You know it well, so do I, that, how imperative is formed, from a given root.
In Arabic these are called . If you have learned this term yet, please look up Wright vol ii, pages 48D.
Badar
Dear, that is your basic problem. You read two three lines and build in your mind a presumptive theory and then start raising a hypothetical building over it. Find time to read all that to understand when a verb is called or becomes a verb of heart.