Fundametal Model(by servant of light) is it possible?
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Salaam Bosnian thinker,
who was the first owner of the land that established the right to buy and sell it?
Does Allah not say he is the owner, so would you steal from Allah, they enslave you through the fiction of estate, and you think this is a good thing?
They have no right to buy and sell what they do not own, they create a legal fiction to alow themselves this right, which you support.
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Peace to al,
abnun, i like some of your thoughts, but remember, we are Gods vicegerents on earth and the quran says this, it means we are his representatives and given a responsibility for it, it was offered to angels and animals but only man accepted the trust relationship, so we are to use GOd property according to Gods laws, we can own property but we should not hoard or be greedy, we should share and give to the poor, we can create governments and laws but we must try to be a good honest government, and we should not oppress, we should try to help those that are oppressed even, so other governments use arms and weapons to oppress then it would be right for a muslim nation to have arms and weapons to ensure one nation doesnt oppress all the others, Quran says God uses one set of people to keep others in place, God also tells us to follow those with authority among us but not to let them lead us into sin or aggression, and that we should side with the innocents against the agrressor, even if its our own nation. So yes, God is the ultimate sovereign, and we are his representatives while on earth, then we will all be called back to him and judged by what we did on earth, did we use it according to Gods plan or ours.
Kurt
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Salaam Kurt,
well you have only consider the first of the four models, allodial ownership, you should consider common law free of all legislation, and the structure of law enforcement free of all sovereign and state, where all corporations, usury, states, governments and sovereigns are against common law, which they are, we must pursue common law and enforce it around the world, make people aware of the law not the fiction of legislation crush the people to conform to the wishes of the financially wealthy.
They fear Islam not because of the religious masses who conform to the Christian version of religious Islam, but because the models of Islam will set the people of the world free from the chains of subjugation to usury and wealth.
I haven't quiet finished the common law essay, but its nearly ready.
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Salaam Bosnian thinker,
who was the first owner of the land that established the right to buy and sell it?
Does Allah not say he is the owner, so would you steal from Allah, they enslave you through the fiction of estate, and you think this is a good thing?
They have no right to buy and sell what they do not own, they create a legal fiction to alow themselves this right, which you support.
Selam )
God owns everything. God owns the computer you used to write your reply to my post, yet the computer is still yours. God could take it away if He wanted to though. One material item is the same as any other; land is the same as jewelry or cars or houses and so on. It's all the same thing, and can be traded, sold, and bought. Now if you are talking about how nations and cities and so forth take claim over land and then sell it, you might have a point there. The connection between religion and the way the modern society and the way modern government exist is a very complex issue. This is something I have been thinking much about recently, for example, the legality of nations and taxes and so on. This is a very complex issue, and it seems to me like few people bring up this very, very important topic.
peace peace peace peace
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Salaam Bosnian thinker,
you have not read the essay and continue to present confusion, why is it so difficult to read a short essay before writing your opinion on its content?
Allah created the Earth, but human labour created the computer, read the essay on Allodial ownership and then write your post, thanks.
I will give a brief example of ownership
All the Earth is allodial, as are the fruits of the Earth, for example if I plant a field of watermelons, the watermelons are the bounty of Allah, grown from the earth and out of the seed, and from the design of Allah, but the physical labour you invested in the planting of the seed, the preparing of the land, the harvesting and marketing of the watermelons, is what you have honestly earned and deserve in reward of your labour, so when you sell the watermelon, the watermelon itself is free, as it is the bounty of Allah, but the labour it took to reach its end user and consumer must be paid by the end user and consumer.
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We can own things God has created, there is nothing wrong in that! but the things should be used for the benefit of all, I think.
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat36_files/36_71.gif
Pickthal
Have they not seen how We have created for them of Our handiwork the cattle, so that they are their owners, -
Salaam Bosnian thinker,
you have not read the essay and continue to present confusion, why is it so difficult to read a short essay before writing your opinion on its content?
Allah created the Earth, but human labour created the computer, read the essay on Allodial ownership and then write your post, thanks.
I will give a brief example of ownership
All the Earth is allodial, as are the fruits of the Earth, for example if I plant a field of watermelons, the watermelons are the bounty of Allah, grown from the earth and out of the seed, and from the design of Allah, but the physical labour you invested in the planting of the seed, the preparing of the land, the harvesting and marketing of the watermelons, is what you have honestly earned and deserve in reward of your labour, so when you sell the watermelon, the watermelon itself is free, as it is the bounty of Allah, but the labour it took to reach its end user and consumer must be paid by the end user and consumer.
Selam
I am not arguing with you about your essay, I am arguing with you about this certain topic. I don't care whether you mentioned this in your essay or not. Land and computers and so on are all made of atoms, they're all things, they're all equal, and they can all be used for trade. It would also not make philosophical sense that we could not own land.
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Abdun nur
you can not sell what you do not own, only a thief would do such a thing, do you own anything that belongs to Allah?
That is true we cannot sell what we do not own except by POWER OF ATTORNEY, What if Allah gives us POWER OF ATTORNEY dear nur?
Have you gone through the following verseAl-Quran
O ye who believe ! devour not your property among yourselves by unlawful means, except that you earn by trade with mutual consent. And kill not your people. Surely, Allah is Merciful towards you.I am sure you would had, than what is your explanation to this verse?
Before we go on any further in our discussion. -
Salaam Raaajah,
I'm glad you have a legislated contract, or think you could obtain any document from Allah giving you the power of attorney over Allah's personal property, I'd like to see the signature written on it. You wish to trade with Allah's property, as you have high lighted in red... Well I don't really know what point you think you are making.
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Salaam Abdun nur,
the property belongs to Allah and he has given us power of Attorney to buy and sell (trade) his property until the time we are living on his Earth, The Ayat is his signature.
As he is the one who has send us to his Earth and has allowed us to use each and every thing belonging to his Earth for certain period of time, as we wish under some basic framework according to Quran.
This is what I understand from the above mentioned Ayat, but you have not answered me by showing what do you mean or understand by this Ayat.Some one asked GOd
"Did i solicit you to bring me out of darkness?" -
This is the complete concept including historical and legal aspects.
Allodial Earth.
This is the first conceptual model outline, of four basic models that combined to manifest Islam. It maybe necessary to understand all four models before fully understanding each model independently.
To Allah belongs everything in the heavens and the earth, and Allah is the only Protector.
2 255 - 2284 - 3109 - 3129 - 3189 - 4126 - 4131 - 4170 - 4172 - 517 - 518 - 5120 - 612 - 7128 Etc.All the Earth is allodial by its very nature, as are the fruits of the Earth, as we did not create the abundance upon the earth, only enjoy its rewards.
An example
If I plant a field of watermelons, the watermelons are the bounty of Allah, grown from the earth and out of the seed, and from the design of Allah, but the physical labour you invested in the planting of the seed, the preparing of the land, the harvesting and marketing of the watermelons, is what you have honestly earned and deserve in reward of your labour, so when you sell the watermelon, the watermelon itself is free, as it is the bounty of Allah, but the labour it took to reach its end user and consumer must be paid by the end user and consumer.
Allah has provided you the materials, while you provide the labour, human energy is the true economy of Islam.
In the modern age men sell the bounty of Allah, they profit from the abundance, they monopolise it and enslave their fellow man through the concept of ownership, but who gave them the right to sell something that they do not own?
Who established they had a right to buy and sell the property of Allah, the Earth and its abundance?
Who ever it was, was a thief!
To buy and sell stolen goods, is bad enough, but to buy and sell the stolen goods of Allah, takes a brave man indeed.
This is the Islamic model of ownership.
Allodial right is a situation where real property (land, buildings and fixtures) is held free and clear of any encumbrances, including liens, mortgages and tax obligations. Allodial title is inalienable, in that it cannot be taken by any operation of law for any reason whatsoever, (beyond the single intentional actions of manifesting long term damage to surrounding property.)
Allodial lands are the absolute property of their custodian and not subject to any service or acknowledgment to a superior, this concept denies the legal power of municipal and state governments to tax property, (if they were in existence) on the basis that allodial title cannot be alienated by failure to pay those taxes.
Allodial title cannot be alienated by seizure by a creditor, as the claim of the foreclosure by the mortgagee is illegal. However, by its nature, allodial title cannot be mortgaged in the first place, and an attempt to create allodial title on land that is subject to encumbrance by debt is impossible.
Within Islam the entire Earth is Allodial by its very nature.
Although allodial title cannot be lost, that also means that it cannot be transferred or encumbered without losing its allodial status. As such, when a property custodian dies and leaves custodianship to more than one heir, the conceptual allodial status of the property is lost, this situation must be resolved as quickly as possible, so re-establishing the correct Allodial status, the property must be divided, sold or agreement of the parties to settle and establish a single custodian (Caliph). This process failing to be accomplished the title reverts back to the community it exists within.
Allodial title cannot be mortgaged (as is common in a usury system). Moreover, as liens cannot attach to allodial title, it is difficult to finance improvements (if considered from the perspective of a usury system), to a property held in allodial title as, once incorporated to the singe custodian, the improvements become part of the allodial title and become exempt from lien or seizure of the property to pay a contractor's bill. The burden of responsibility to honour these debts, if established, is solely upon the custodian personally, the fruits generated from the property, personally by the custodian could be seized, as they represent the wealth, the labour invested within the produced goods from the property.
Allodial title cannot, in theory, be legally taken away against the will of the custodian. However, an allodial custodian can contractually give up allodial custodianship and that allodial custodianship can be restored or sold (added value only) or passed on to a single heir. Allodial title cannot be exchanged by fraud, only by legitimate contract. (For example you could not use your allodial property as a stake for a wager, just as much as the collateral for a loan.)
Allodial property can not be owned by a corporation, being a group recognised as an individual by law, being a group colony of individuals, working in unity against the community for their own benefit. Only single individuals can hold allodial rights and custodianship.
All property is Allodial, property without a custodian is held in trust by the local community, and allotted to individuals when the community feel it appropriate. Otherwise it remains open to all to enjoy, and for local community projects.
Land alone can have no saleable value, it can be given or exchanged for equal land in another location, but not sold, as it is in custody only, however the fixed labour invested in the land, labour integral that forms added worth, such as making the land arable, buildings, crops; seasonal or annual, like trees; all have value and can be sold with the transferred obligations of the custodianship of the land which attaches no cost.
If you irreparably damage the land, as its custodian, through contaminating it with poisons, damage its nature with cross specie genetically modified crops, making it radioactive, any long term effects that detrimentally effect not just your allodial land, but the surrounding lands, of intentional assault, breaks the covenant and so voids the custodianship, and holds those responsible accountable for the cost and effort, of rectifying the surrounding contamination. If the custodian damages their Allodial land without effecting any surrounding land it is a crime between the custodian and Allah. But these abuses would have a bearing on the local community allocating new allodial custodianship in any future applications.
As the entire Earth, categorically, is allodial, the substance of the Earth itself would also be allodial, for example the minerals of the earth are free in and of themselves, it is only the labour and small equipment charge, and the cost of any consumables used, in the extraction and purification and delivery of the minerals, that could be charged for something which no person could own, (you would own the added value invested in the minerals after extraction and processing, so in effect own the minerals through that action, much like land use and the fruits it bears), only your labour within an allodial system would be chargeable above the overheads, the same concept would apply to crops and fruits, the labour value would be charged and overheads, the bounty of Allah would always be freely given, and when true Muslim intent was prevalent, this system would invigorate commodities, no market of exploitation to hype the price beyond reason, no futures market to speculate on production, no investment market to gamble on price fluctuations, no monopolies to extort undeserved rewards from the weak and powerless.
For a sovereign to claim ownership and sell rights to mine any of these fruits of the Earth, is against Islam, these things of the Earth are the bounty of Allah, they cannot be sold, or monopolised.
Modern land law.
Ownership of property.
The first thing to note about the legal profession is the abuse of the word law, as they exchange it so easily for what should be known as legislation, so what is legal is legislation and what is lawful is common law. So they attempt to confuse others with this abuse, in reality the legal profession knows very little about the law, but can be experts on legislation. I wish to now examine both legislation and common law.The extent of personal land ownership, founded in definition, from the subjugation by force of arms of 1066, within England formally Albion
'Cuius est solum eius est usque ad coelum et ad inferos'
Which means
'He who owns the land owns everything 'up to the sky and down to the centre of the earth'.This is legislated away with the following legislative acts
?In terms of downward ownership so that coal and gas found under land are now subject to public (meaning Crown) ownership.(Petroleum Act 1934- Coal Industry Act 1994) Other than that, items found buried in the soil are yours, unless constituting treasure trove,(Treasure Act 1996) in which case the treasure belongs to the crown...?(Oxford Modern land law 4th edt)
In the case of civil aircraft, the matter is regulated by statute, Section 76 of the Civil Aircraft Act 1982.
A statute is a formal written enactment of legislative authority that governs a city, state or country. Again not law but legislated rules, so only binding upon registration to the corporate legislating body, being the Government in this case, also known as the Crown Corporation.?One speaks of ownership of a car yet, in the context of land, one does not, technically, refer to ownership of the land; instead, an abstract entity, known as an 'Estate' was created and one's ownership rights are defined by this abstract entity.?(Introduction to the Law of Property. 195
Modern legislative law is based upon the concept of the corporation, to perform this trick, they must create the fiction of the corporation to apply upon the natural person, or the property of the natural person, without this fiction they would have no basis to act. This is the reason they will apply a title before your name in court, Mister, Mrs, Master, Miss, etc. or use a title in place of property as in estate. The entire land ownership fraud is based on fictions of law.
Within Common law it is prohibited for a state, corporation or sovereign to exist, it is against common law. And the sovereigns know this, but do not want you to.
A corporation is an artificial person, invisible, intangible, and existing only in contemplation of legislation. Being the mere creature of legislation, it possesses only those properties which the charter of its creation confers upon it, either expressly or as incidental to its very existence. The attributes of the corporate structure are
Immortality - allowed through a perpetual succession of many persons considered as the same so acting as a single entity.
Individuality ? enables a corporation to manage its own affairs, hold property without perplexing intricacies, of the hazardous and endless necessity of perpetual conveyances needed to transmit ownership from hand to hand.
A franchise - clothing bodies of men in free succession, with qualities and capacities capable of acting for the promotion of a particular object, like one immortal being.
A body politic ? vested under a special denomination of legislation, to act as a united will of unified power, undisturbed by the change of members, enjoying legislated rights and privileges.
Limited liability ? this possesses many advantages to the corporation, it supports the suppression of financial liabilities, in compensation, reparations, remunerations; and in personal accountability, cloaking the guilty in the blanket of the corporate fiction, so limiting personal accountability of environmental destruction and pollution, social exploitation and enslavement; take the food chain, corporate employees defiling plants, animals and humans with poisons, genetically modified perversions of nature, chemical infusion etc. acting with impunity; also stealing with deceptions, creating wars, hardship, terrorism, taking away human liberties and natural rights from communities, families and individuals. Additionally leaving creditors empty handed if the fiction of the indebted corporation is dissolved. This allows the corporation to externalise the greater portion of the risks of financial and moral liabilities, imposing them upon society at large.
Monopoly ? corporations of themselves are giant monopoly privileges, using the construct of copy right, economy of scale, dictating price and terms of supply and legislation of privileges; such as the printing of money for the cost of printing in the case of the Central Corporate Banks for example, being a coercive monopoly. Even in the small scale corporation is structured on monopoly, taking the fruits of the labour of the employees and monopolising this to the advantage of the financiers. Another simple example of coercive monopoly would be Microsoft, were they dominate through enforced copyright, resulting in a poor quality product almost free of competition. The state itself is the most extreme coercive monopoly as they use violence and intimidation to enforce a perceived compulsory monopoly.
The roots of the corporation go back deep into history, the word "corporation" derives from corpus, the Latin word for body, or a "body of people". The structure of corporations existed in ancient Roman and the ancient Indian Empire of Maurya, and continued into the modern world from its ancient existence, from the evolution of the failed brutal Roman Empire, as it collapsed under the exploitations of usury, transforming into the blind faith and mental enslavement of the Roman Catholic Church, the largest corporation in the world, as it incorporates many subordinate corporations within it.
Common law ownership
I
Inalienable rights also known as natural rights or universal rights. Only through trickery and confusion can we be robbed of them, this being the job of the legal profession, this means they work to prevent you having allodial property ownership, as this would be an inalienable right, they create a fiction which is the abstract entity of estate as described above.?English law has never embraced the concept of absolute ownership of land. The closest it has come to doing so is when a person is registered as the proprietor of land with an absolute title. Even then, however, as will be seen, that person's title is not indefeasible. Where title to the land is unregistered, this is even more the case. All that a person can do is to demonstrate that he has the better right to possess the land than anyone else.?(Modern Land Law 4th edn.)
English law only existed upon the creating of the constructs established from 1066, in subduing the original Albic nation, which was an allodial land system, and additionally not a Roman Catholic enclave. (See 'Rex Offa of Mercia (Northern Britain))
How do they justify their right to buy and sell the earth?
?To make better rights impossible the proof would have to start with the granting to Adam and Eve, but even then this was save and except the Garden of Eden, and one is not even sure if they took as joint tenants or tenants in common....?(Ferrand, Contract and Conveyance 4th edn.)
"to work it and watch over it,"(Bible, Old Testament, Genesis)
The very foundation of the legal right establishing the Sovereigns ownership, to buy and sell, is a lie, never were Adam and eve given the Earth as owners, only as custodians with obligations and restrictions.
?After the Norman invasion in 1066, a rigorous feudal structure was imposed upon the country. Central to it was the notion, still true to this day, that all the land belonged to the Crown.- This process led to the formation of a feudal pyramid.?(An Introduction to the History of Land Law 1961 Ch. 1)
William the Bastard (Conqueror) never purchased the land of Albion, nor took any legal ownership that would be supported, he murdered the allodial property owners and held it by force, changing the name from Albion to England, which explains this
?The fact of possession of a chattel of itself gives to the possessor a possessory title and the possessor is entitled to rely on such title without reference to the circumstances in which such possession was obtained; his entitlement to do so is not prejudiced by the fact that he obtained such possession unlawfully or by an illegal transaction.?(Ibid. At 157. Contrast Hibbert v. McKiernan 194
William the Bastard was in subjugation to the Pope, and established the Crown as owner of the land and all upon it, later King John of England (king 6th April 1199 - 19th Oct 1216) was excommunicated from the Church, to meet these demands to be re-embraced he surrendered the crown rights of ownership to the Roman Catholic Church, making them the Crown corporation, so the legal but not lawful owners of England, given as a Papal Legate to Bishop Pandulph in May 1213.
Two years later, at the point of a sword King John signed the Magna Carta Libertatum (the Great Charter of Freedoms ? 1215). This charter was written by the Arch Bishop of Canterbury Stephen Langton for the protection of the contract establishing the Church as coporate owner of England, through the manipulation of the Barons and lords. However Pope Innocent III public declared outrage at the "shameful and demeaning agreement, forced upon the King by violence and fear." He rejected any call for restraints on the King, saying it impaired John's dignity. He pretended it was an affront to the Church's authority over the King and the 'papal territories' of England and Ireland, and he released John from his oath to obey it, of course the Barons and Lords made certain it was obeyed. The Crown Corporation is the legal owner of England, as maintained through legal fictions, standing in direct conflict with Law.
?It remains theoretically true to say that all land is held from the Crown. The idea that one does not actually own the thing itself but rather has an interest in it, is also what underlies the theoretical basis of landholding in this country?(Modern Land Law 4th edn)
?..it is now assumed that an owner of land holds directly from the Crown as tenant in Chief but without the provision of any service in respect of that holding. The effect of the statute 'Quia Emptores' is that, when a house is sold, the purchaser replaces the vendor as the tenant in chief, holding the land directly from the Crown.?(Modern Land Law 4th edn)
'the plaintiff cannot recover but upon the strength of his own title. He cannot found a claim upon the weakness of the defendant's title. For possession gives the defendant a right against every man who cannot show a good title.'(Roe d. Haldane v. Harvey 1769)
?Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public (Crown)interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law(meaning legislation) and by the general principles of international law.(meaning international legislation)?(Human Rights Act 1998 Article 1)
?Section 15 of the Limitation Act 1980 provides that no action shall be brought by any person to recover any land after the expiration of twelve years from the date on which the right of action accrued to him, or if first accrued to some person through whom he claims, that person.? (Modern Land Law 4th edn)
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Dear Abdun nur,
I had read much of what you posted at your site, so nothing was new for me here except few lines. Dear I am asking you about the particular verse and you have not commented on it.
Abdun nur
The very foundation of the legal right establishing the Sovereigns ownership, to buy and sell, is a lie, never were Adam and eve given the Earth as owners, only as custodians with obligations and restrictions.
Quran contradicts your claim! Allah has sent us to his Earth with his WILL and has given us power of Attorney to use/Trade each and every commodity/property with mutual consent and to write down whatever we sell or buy and have two witnesses to it.
(3826) "O David! We did indeed gave you the rule on the earth, so decide between men in truth, and do not follow the lust of their hearts, for they will mislead you from the path of Allah."
2282
O you who believe, when you transact a loan for any period, you shall write it down. An impartial scribe shall do the writing. No scribe shall refuse to perform this service, according to GOD's teachings. He shall write, while the debtor dictates the terms. He shall observe GOD his Lord and never cheat. If the debtor is mentally incapable, or helpless, or cannot dictate, his guardian shall dictate equitably. Two men shall serve as witnesses; if not two men, then a man and two women whose testimony is acceptable to all. Thus, if one woman becomes biased, the other will remind her. It is the obligation of the witnesses to testify when called upon to do so. Do not tire of writing the details, no matter how long, including the time of repayment. This is equitable in the sight of GOD, assures better witnessing, and eliminates any doubts you may have. Business transactions that you execute on the spot need not be recorded, but have them witnessed. No scribe or witness shall be harmed on account of his services. If you harm them, it would be wickedness on your part. You shall observe GOD, and GOD will teach you. GOD is Omniscient.2283
And if you are traveling or do not find a scribe, then a pledge of collateral. If you trust each other then let the one who was entrusted deliver his trust, and let him be aware of God, and do not hold back the testimony. And whoever holds it back, then he has sinned in his heart, and God is aware of what you do.It is very clear from the Ayats I have mentioned that Allah allows us to buy and sell each and every thing that belongs to Him for certain period of time, because it is his in the end.
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Salaam Raajah,
as I can see there is nothing to comment on, what are you saying you are presenting as an objection, you have not read the revised version, as it is not a few lines that have altered, you continue to point out nothing, how can I comment on nothing?
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Peace All
It seems to me that there is much comment on the models that Abdunur is presenting without reading the model. This is not acceptable from a Quranic perspective. Just because something does not sit right with one, does not give license to comment without investigation. I make these comments simply because it is quite clear that the models have not been read, let alone studied.
I'm sure there are some of you who have read the models, and I look forward to your comments on them.
we are Gods vicegerents on earth and the quran says this
Kurt, I think this understanding stems from the word "khalifa". In my opinion, it does not mean vicegerent. It means successor. Also, it is not successor to God, but to previous people, understanding that Aadam is representative of humankind, successor to previous people on earth, but this is another discussion, which can be dealt with on a separate thread.
The responsibility that we have is contained within 9111. God had purchased from the mu'minoon their possession and their nafs and exchange given them jannah. This, in effect means that everything we "own" is left in trust with us and must therefore be bound by the laws pertaining to trust "amaanah". I suggest looking up the verses pertaining to amaanah to better understand what our rights an responsibilities are in that regard.
I think the point is that we are required to keep open the resources for all creation. This is clearly illustrated in the story of Salih and the Thamud (see 773-79) in relation to the she camel. If the resources were to be kept open for the grazing of the camel, how much more so should they be kept open your human beings.
Imraan
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Abdun nur
Salaam Raajah,
as I can see there is nothing to comment on, what are you saying you are presenting as an objection, you have not read the revised version, as it is not a few lines that have altered, you continue to point out nothing, how can I comment on nothing?I think you have to revise this many many times more dear nur.
I pointed out that Allah allows to buy and sell the land which you say we cannot.
You saidAllodial ownership (As Allah is the owner of the Earth, so you cannot buy and sell what you do not own)
First part of the statement is according to Quran second part is lunatics dream.
This system is not practical if it would had been, there would have been at least one example for it in the hsitory.
Muhammad Peace is upon him established a state in Madina, where state owned the Land, and it's produces were sold including the price for bounties from Allah.Fadak is one example i can quote instantly.
Actually Arnold mol has quite rightly pointed out the mistake you are making, You talk about Allah and Earth but forget the link between Allah and Earth that is Humans, Allah doesnot act directly, he assigns powers to humans as his representatives, he gives them power of attorney to do whatever they want to within the larger frame work of Quran. They can buy and sell the bounties which is of their part.
They can make legisilations as deem fit according to the environment etc.1CELOSTNOWFOUND
Peace All
It seems to me that there is much comment on the models that Abdunur is presenting without reading the model. This is not acceptable from a Quranic perspective.
But to present a model that is not from Quran's prespective is acceptable, come on bravo bravo
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Salaam Raaajah,
you make statement without thought or investigation, the Allodial system underpins the whole land law system, as I explained within the essay, which you have not read because you have decided it is against your religion. Allodial ownership existed as the predominant model across the earth in the past, it has been well tried and tested, why do you attempt to mislead people?
Have you some strange aversion to Islam?
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Peace Raajah
But to present a model that is not from Quran's prespective is acceptable, come on bravo bravo
I urge you to study the models without pre-conceived ideas before labeling it as not being from Quranic perspective. Also, please read the story of Thamud in the Quran as it goes some way to backing the allodial model.
First part of the statement is according to Quran second part is lunatics dream.
This system is not practical if it would had been, there would have been at least one example for it in the hsitory.
Muhammad Peace is upon him established a state in Madina, where state owned the Land, and it's produces were sold including the price for bounties from Allah.Fadak is one example i can quote instantly.
What is your Quranic evidence for the statement that I have made bold?
As to its practicality and lunacy, the Quranic message was constantly challenged by such claims. In an environment of utter corruption, justice is often seen as lunacy. That is why messengers were always accused of being madmen. For this reason I don't believe that this kind of defense is productive without solid evidence of this apparent lunacy.
I have question for you.
Do you believe that God has promised to take care of the needs of all creatures?Imraan
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Imraan
What is your Quranic evidence for the statement that I have made bold?
This is an old tactic now, this appears when logic ends. The model you think will change the world, Abdun nur says about this
Allodial ownership existed as the predominant model across the earth in the past, it has been well tried and tested,
Where is the Quranic eveidence for the portion i made bold?
Imraan
As to its practicality and lunacy, the Quranic message was constantly challenged by such claims. In an environment of utter corruption, justice is often seen as lunacy. That is why messengers were always accused of being madmen. For this reason I don't believe that this kind of defense is productive without solid evidence of this apparent lunacy.
No body disagreed with the basic message of quran they knew it was true, Don't lie, don't back bite, Don't kill innocent, take care of Yaatama, respect your parents, love your youngestrs, these were messages of Quran, and people knew it was true, but for their own interests they were not accepting it. But in this case there is a basic flaw inthe Model, not acceptable from the beginning truly against the Model of Allah.
Imraan
I have question for you.
Do you believe that God has promised to take care of the needs of all creatures?This question doesnot make any sense to me. Hundreds of thousands have been dead because of Hunger in Ethoopia, Millions sleep without three times food. 9 million dollars worth car from Mersedez is purchased by prince of Dubai (goldplated).