Jilbab [Quran 33:59]
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Btw., welcome back, reformer.
really? hmm
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601169.msg258338#msg258338
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After you read the link provided by WAKAS, please read the following to make a comparison,
Let us start from following verses of Quran..
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.In this verse Jilbab is a large sheet and idna' is to draw close and wrap up, but when this word is used with the associating particle ala, it gives the meaning of letting something down from above. Some modern translators, under the influence of the West, have translated this word "to wrap up" so as to avoid somehow the Command about covering of the face. But if Allah had meant what these gentlemen want to construe, He would have said yudnina ilai-hinna and not yudnina alai-hinna. Anyone who knows Arabic knows that yudnina 'alai-hinna cannot merely mean "wrapping up. " Moreover, the words min jalabib-i hinna also do not permit of this meaning. It is obvious that the preposition min here signifies a part of the sheet, and also that wrapping up is done by means of a whole sheet and not merely by a part of it. The verse, therefore, clearly means The women should wrap themselves up well in their sheets, and should draw and let down a part of the sheet in front of the face.
Maluana Madudi,
We may disagree with what he says but then we have to provide any counter arguments,.
This same meaning was understood by the major commentators who lived close to the time of the Holy Prophet. Ibn Jarir and Ibn al-Mundhir Ibn 'Abbas also has made almost the same commentary.
Later commentators such as Imam Tabari, 'Allama Abu Bakr al-Jassas, 'Allama Zamakhshari and Imam Razi all agree with the above, and One can not figure out why Ibn Kathir's tafsir is given prefrance over others in some specific meaning of the Arabic word? in Wakas's link.And welcome to the Forum, Captain Awesome.
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In this verse Jilbab is a large sheet and idna' is to draw close and wrap up, but when this word is used with the associating particle ala, it gives the meaning of letting something down from above. Some modern translators, under the influence of the West, have translated this word "to wrap up" so as to avoid somehow the Command about covering of the face. But if Allah had meant what these gentlemen want to construe, He would have said yudnina ilai-hinna and not yudnina alai-hinna. Anyone who knows Arabic knows that yudnina 'alai-hinna cannot merely mean "wrapping up. " Moreover, the words min jalabib-i hinna also do not permit of this meaning. It is obvious that the preposition min here signifies a part of the sheet, and also that wrapping up is done by means of a whole sheet and not merely by a part of it. The verse, therefore, clearly means The women should wrap themselves up well in their sheets, and should draw and let down a part of the sheet in front of the face.
Maluana Madudi,We may disagree with what he says but then we have to provide any counter arguments,.
But where is the argument in the above quote that needs counter argument to negate it?
Face is the uppermost part of body. "yudnina" is imperfect verb, form-IV, transitive, "na" is the subject of verb, plural; feminine; third person; its verbal noun is , which clearly rules out "wrapping/covering face" and restricts meanings to let it draw downwards, hang downwards not upwards from shoulders to face.
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Salam, brothers and sisters,
Thanks for all the good answers. I'll certainly make good use of them.
Btw., welcome back, reformer.
I've lurked around here long enough to know who he is and what he stands for, so I can't help but feel a little bit insulted. confused
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I've lurked around here long enough to know who he is and what he stands for, so I can't help but feel a little bit insulted. confused
Please don't. peace
If I jumped to conclusions, please forgive me. I've had a bit too much of stalking and trolling recently, and your post rang a particular bell.
Welcome, and good that you stopped lurking. I lurked for years, so I know what it feels like to suddenly put your thoughts out there for everyone to read. &
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Mazhar
.....hang downwards not upwards from shoulders to face....
What do you mean? Why start from Shoulders?
So you mean to say that before this Ayat the ladies were wearing Skirts? or roaming with open bossoms? that is why they were told to lengthen their garments from shoulders down ward? that is not logical, that makes no sense, Mazhar sahib, the only sense it makes is to down from face or head..
Now the only argument that is possible is that this Ayat was for a particular time and situation as we come to know from History, and by Ijitihaad we may ammend it according to situation, but to say it was not there in first place is to deny what should not be denied....idna' is to draw close and wrap up, but when this word is used with the associating particle ala, it gives the meaning of letting something down from above...
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So you mean to say that before this Ayat the ladies were wearing Skirts? or roaming with open bossoms?
You seem to draw conclusion even without paying a little attention to the words of the Aayat.
Face is the uppermost part of body. "yudnina" is imperfect verb, form-IV, transitive, "na" is the subject of verb, plural; feminine; third person; its verbal noun is , which clearly rules out "wrapping/covering face" and restricts meanings to let it draw downwards, hang downwards not upwards from shoulders to face.
.This is with reference to which are not the part of the dress on body as sewn clothes. And it is not small head scarf but a big unsewn sheet of cloth. It is larger than which are drawn at home upon the chest over and above the clothes, to obscure the visibility of naturally raised part of the body of women. Another area of attraction is the pelvic area. Women while going out are advised to lower it to cover that area also. Faces of women do not disturb any body, but these two areas of some lady can disturb the onlooker even if he otherwise is a nice guy. Look at showbiz people, they highlight and make prominent only these two areas, for obvious reasons.
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tum ko mirza ghalib ki nazam kisi ko khush nahi karti, so just stick to english peace
laugh
nahiN khhel ai daaGh yaaroN se kehdo
ke aati hai Urdu zabaaN aate aate -
Mazhar
Faces of women do not disturb any body, but these two areas of some lady can disturb the onlooker even if he otherwise is a nice guy. Look at showbiz people, they highlight and make prominent only these two areas, for obvious reasons
Mazhar
It is larger than which are drawn at home upon the chest over and above the clothes, to obscure the visibility of naturally raised part of the body of women. Another area of attraction is the pelvic area. Women while going out are advised to lower it to cover that area also
Well, let us see what do ladies have to say about this? two parts of their bodies disturb MEN, and Allah told to cover them.
A nice Guy can also be attracted towards eyes, feet, hands, hair... hair as Afridi has pointed out is the most discussed part of the body in poetry.
The fact is just to twist original and simple command you have to come up with such a logic, supported by Movies.afridi
Qurban jaon aapke urdu se
a kiss from me too.
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Well, let us see what do ladies have to say about this? two parts of their bodies disturb MEN, and Allah told to cover them.
A nice Guy can also be attracted towards eyes, feet, hands, hair... hair as Afridi has pointed out is the most discussed part of the body in poetry.
The fact is just to twist original and simple command you have to come up with such a logic, supported by Movies.Attraction and "disturbance" are two different things.
is reflected from the face and there is no advice anywhere in Qur'aan to cover it. -
Ayisha
You are the one twisting a simple command to cover the bosom and saying it means face!!
so you agree that two parts of women actually, "disturb" Men?
I think it is never enough, Ok, Please let me know why did Allah told to cover the Bosoms? why? Why? and
I will be desperately waiting for reply, but be careful in answering, it may contradict your whole argument. -
Ayisha
so you agree that two parts of women actually, "disturb" Men?
I think it is never enough, Ok, Please let me know why did Allah told to cover the Bosoms? why? Why? and
I will be desperately waiting for reply, but be careful in answering, it may contradict your whole argument.I agree that the 2 parts are what are called 'private parts' and should be covered. you ask me WHY Allah said cover the bosom? because it is a private part of a woman which is used to feed a child when the child needs feeding and that part would be exposed at that time and possibly not considered as a private part. That is my logic although I cannot answer for Allah WHY he particularly said that at that time just as you cant answer WHY he DID NOT say face and according to you means face.
Answered quickly as possible so you dont get over excited and wet yourself, all this talk of bosoms has got to get you onto bikinis and nakedness at some point as it always does.
Also to point out that although men like you can get excited over hands, feet, eyes, chins, and earlobes, not all men are like that and Allah did not say face or any of the other parts you get excited over because he wasnt concerned with men like you as you are the minority.
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Ayisha
Answered quickly as possible so you dont get over excited and wet yourself, all this talk of bosoms has got to get you onto bikinis and nakedness at some point as it always does.
and the result of quickness is a disaster
I agree that the 2 parts are what are called 'private parts' and should be covered. you ask me WHY Allah said cover the bosom? because it is a private part of a woman which is used to feed a child when the child needs feeding and that part would be exposed at that time and possibly not considered as a private part. That is my logic although I cannot answer for Allah WHY he particularly said that at that time just as you cant answer WHY he DID NOT say face and according to you means face.
Mazhar said because these two parts "disturb" MEN.
You think these two parts are private and others are public property laugh
dear, did you even understand what I asked? Why Allah commanded to lenghthen the garments, the women are already wearing garments prior to this verse or were they nude? if they were nude then it is understandable that Allah ordered them to cover up private parts, but if they were wearing some garments why double cover them? or even double covering them can hide these parts?
Since I don't want you to be let down, here are some bikinis. Let me ask that these ladies and gentle man is covering the parts that disturb men according to Mazhar, and private parts according to you, so is it fine with you?