Differences in translation of verse 39:18
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Sorry, my stupidity, i was too naive to think that sense would prevail so soon, forgive me, but then the way you have made that posting , 99.99% people would perceive , what i mistakenly perceived (you may like to cross check this from other forum members)
The school that you learned Arabic from, I feel like sending a suggestion, "They must included some compulsory classes on use of common sense and mannerism.
peace
siki
On the first page, after the post of Munzir, the author of the thread, you expressed your anger like this
let me tell you something before i start discussing the issue,
- I find you to be intellectually dishonest, because over a period of time i have observed that when, you are not able to answer for a mistake , you conveniently ignore the subject and start posting regarding a non issue or a small issue which you can prove,hence successfully diverting the attention of forum members from a blunder of yours. I have seen you doing this over and over . A genuine servant of God never does such a thing , he puts his ego aside , accepts his mistake , corrects it and moves on.
I am using soft words stupid and idiot which has relevance to brain, intellect which you are deliberately not applying; and seem to have made you hardened on the issue the claps of Ayisha.
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o o
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My worshippers who listen to the discourse and choose with deliberation the best course to follow as of forgiveness in lieu of retaliation. These are they who have the world all before them and Providence their guide and it is these who apprehend virtue as well as the voice from heaven.
How did arrive with all those words? Did he add his own understanding? Or tafseer? peace
He is not the only one , we have another such example right here with us on this forum , any guess? yes you are right , bravo It is our own Brother Mazhar
look at this , rotfl
39-18 those who make themselves attentively listen the Word/Grand Qur'aan thereby/resultantly they incline themselves to act/follow, in letter and spirit, the best course described in that/Grand Qur'aan
I fail to understand what is he trying to explain "From eardrum take it to memory for saving"? Does he understand that people who can read english, can understand what word "listen" mean? and if they are incapable of deciphering the meaning of word "listen" they would definitely be incapable of understanding his explanation. Moreover anybody who has the intellect to explore quran, for sure he can make sense of the word "Listen"
Here is one more, enjoy. eat
"so that they may conveniently save it in memory/remember and recall to orally narrate."
) These are just convenient picks from the same thread, want further enlightenment? visit his site , you could stumble upon some jewels.
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He is not the only one , we have another such example right here with us on this forum , any guess? yes you are right , bravo It is our own Brother Mazhar
look at this , rotfl
39-18 those who make themselves attentively listen the Word/Grand Qur'aan thereby/resultantly they incline themselves to act/follow, in letter and spirit, the best course described in that/Grand Qur'aan
I fail to understand what is he trying to explain (highlighted in red) "From eardrum take it to memory for saving"? Does he understand that people who can read english, can understand what word "listen" mean? and if they are incapable of deciphering the meaning of word "listen" they would definitely be incapable of understanding his explanation. Moreover anybody who has the intellect to explore quran, for sure he can make sense of the word "Listen"
Here is one more, enjoy. eat
"so that they may conveniently save it in memory/remember and recall to orally narrate."
) These are just convenient picks from the same thread, want further enlightenment? visit his site , you could stumble upon some jewels.
Allah had quoted about the attitude of people like you listen it attentively and then reread what have you said above;
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And you people should never be like those who said "We have heard" but the fact is they do not listen.What is the difference between hearing and "listening"?
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Indeed, in the sight of Allah the worst/irksome of the animals are the deaf and the dumb, those who do not reflect/interpret/differentiateSurat-8
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by siki , and alternate meaning in Arabic are as good as primary meaning.
by Mazhar , And from where you got this? Can you quote source?
yes i can, i got this inspiration from you dear brother.
Quote by Mazhar from post no 17 same thread
"Indeed from Allah has come to you people "An-Noor-Visible Light-Giver and guarantor of continuity of life" i.e. the Book that makes everything distinct/vivid/apparent/manifest/visible/perceivable to vision and mind.want more of it?
translation of Mazhar same thread,
"and they are the people, they are the men of wisdom who look into matters objectively without overlapping it with emotions/prejudices/biases/whims/caprices and conjectural myths. -
yes i can, Mazhar from post no 17 same thread
"Indeed from Allah has come to you people "An-Noor-Visible Light-Giver and guarantor of continuity of life" i.e. the Book that makes everything distinct/vivid/apparent/manifest/visible/perceivable to vision and mind.
want more of it?
translation of Mazhar same thread,
"and they are the people, they are the men of wisdom who look into matters objectively without overlapping it with emotions/prejudices/biases/whims/caprices and conjectural myths.
Question related to this
and alternate meaning in Arabic are as good as primary meaning.
Now relate it with your answer quoting my translations?
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And you people should never be like those who said "We have heard" but the fact is they do not listen.What is the difference between hearing and "listening"?
hail Thank you , for enlightening me by explaning the difference between hearing and listening , appreciate it, but you really need to modify your following explanation "From eardrum take it to memory for saving"? elektro (in my opinion this is for hearing only)
My suggestion (for listening) " From eardrum initially write it on Ram (Random access memory, location lower right side of the brain) and then further transfer it to central nervous system via hard drive for processing its contents for future application" rotfl rotfl
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I am using soft words stupid and idiot which has relevance to brain, intellect which you are deliberately not applying; and seem to have made you hardened on the issue the claps of Ayisha.
hail , i am so humbled , Thanks, for using soft words . rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
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hail Thank you , for enlightening me by explaning the difference between hearing and listening , appreciate it, but you really need to modify your following explanation "From eardrum take it to memory for saving"? elektro (in my opinion this is for hearing only)
into this (for listening)
" From eardrum initially write it on Ram (Random access memory, location lower right side of the brain) and then further transfer it to central nervous system for processing its contents for future application" rotfl rotfl rotfl
central nervous system being the human CPU which will process it and save it on the hard drive (memory)? ???
yes i agree, that's listening as opposed to hearing. Many hear, but do they listen. One can hear and save it to memory for oral relating it, as many do hear Quran and recite it beautifully without listening as many have no idea what its saying.
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hail Thank you , for enlightening me by explaning the difference between hearing and listening , appreciate it, but you really need to modify your following explanation "From eardrum take it to memory for saving"? elektro (in my opinion this is for hearing only)
My suggestion (for listening) " From eardrum initially write it on Ram (Random access memory, location lower right side of the brain) and then further transfer it to central nervous system via hard drive for processing its contents for future application" rotfl rotfl
What is the difference between hearing and "listening"?
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Indeed, in the sight of Allah the worst/irksome of the animals are the deaf and the dumb, those who do not reflect/interpret/differentiateSurat-8
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salaam to all brothers and sisters here.
After reading through the discussion, it seems that this discussion is leading nowhere. However, I would back the position of Brother Mazhar regarding Al-Qawl as a reference to Al-Quran ... Infact the name is not Al-Quran, it is Al-Kitaab.... and there are many other adjectives and definitions attributed to this Al-Kitaab... Moreover, the 'AL' attached with the word Qawl should make us think twice because it makes it definite as per the quranic definition and context... There is some kind of pattern in the quran which should be neglected... An example would be the use of the word WAHDAHU/Him Alone has always been used only for Allah and nothing else... Similarly, it is the same for Al-Qawl which elsewhere all over the quran has been always used to denote the word of God whereas the word of man is referred to as Hadith... Maybe I missed something, but this is my personal opinion on the matter... And I would like you brothers to make peace with one another.
Brother Mazhar,it was not very nice to give bad names to siki... Please refrain from doing this next time and let us try to understand one another.
Salaam
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salaam to all brothers and sisters here.
welcome back brother, where have you been for such a long time? you were missed.
However, I would back the position of Brother Mazhar regarding Al-Qawl as a reference to Al-Quran ...
It is good that we have a neutral person participating in discussion
.. Infact the name is not Al-Quran, it is Al-Kitaab....
Could you elaborate on what do you perceive by the word "Alquran" and what is your definition of "Al kitab" ?
same for Al-Qawl which elsewhere all over the quran has been always used to denote the word of God whereas the word of man is referred to as Hadith...
What ever little work i have done on Al qawl, i tend to disagree with you, however let me explore a little more and i would get back to you. Meanwhile you also take a second look on the subject deliberately , in the light of your above statement.
peace
siki
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Brother Mazhar,it was not very nice to give bad names to siki... Please refrain from doing this next time and let us try to understand one another
Thanks Way finder. I used two terms, one is considered offensive, though merely means and refers to one about whom someone estimates IQ of 25 percent or under and mental age of three years. And the other term is for one whom one regards as unintelligent or who is showing lack of intelligence, perception or common sense. And he also initially took it in light sense, and we kept using dear etc until someone..........................
But perhaps you have didn't read his remarks after Munzir's post; leave them.
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Quote from WayFinder on Today at 063634 PM
.. Infact the name is not Al-Quran, it is Al-Kitaab....Could you elaborate on what do you perceive by the word "Alquran" and what is your definition of "Al kitab"?
Wayfinder, may I quote Ayat, the perception I got from your observation!
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And swearing is by the Book, the one which makes things/knowledge distinct and crystal clear.
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Indeed We have made that Book as the Written Book/Qur'aan in Arabic language, so that you people may be able to save it in memory/reflect and differentiatehttp//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/043.%20Az%20Zukhraf/43.04.gif
And indeed that-Grand Qur'aan is from/with Us in the Master Copy/Mother of the Book, certainly Exalted, containing Wisdom-the absolute knowledge of all invisible/secreted/infolded.Surat 43
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welcome back brother, where have you been for such a long time? you were missed.
Thank you brother. Infact I have been intentionally staying away for some reason or the other... I have been checking from time to time once or twice a month but I did not manage to add anything to any discussion. However, in the meantime, the research did not suffer at all
Thanks for these nice words.
It is good that we have a neutral person participating in discussion
Not that neutral I guess... sun
Could you elaborate on what do you perceive by the word "Alquran" and what is your definition of "Al kitab" ?
Always keep in mind that all what I write is my personal understanding of the subject and should never be taken as absolute... maybe I got to add this to my signature as well
The literal translation of Al-Quran would be the reading/recitation/recital ... Al-Quran is the reading of Al-Kitaab but in Arabic this time. In the past, it used to be in other languages... All the scriptures are part of the Al-Kitaab ... The main Book which rest with God alone... There are many other attributes given to this Arabic Reading of Al-kitaab such as quraan (reading), Qawl (saying), Ahsan Al Hadith (best discourse), kalaam (speech), Nur (light), hudaa (guidance), rahma (mercy), furqaan etc etc .. The list is quite long... But they all reflect the nature of the the divine scripture.
This is how I see it.
Hope it helps.
Salaam
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The literal translation of Al-Quran would be the reading/recitation/recital ... Al-Quran is the reading of Al-Kitaab but in Arabic this time. In the past, it used to be in other languages... All the scriptures are part of the Al-Kitaab ... The main Book which rest with God alone... There are many other attributes given to this Arabic Reading of Al-kitaab such as quraan (reading), Qawl (saying), Ahsan Al Hadith (best discourse), kalaam (speech), Nur (light), hudaa (guidance), rahma (mercy), furqaan etc etc .. The list is quite long... But they all reflect the nature of the the divine scripture.
Quran is the reading of ALkitab but in arabic this time,
agreed,
In the past it used to be in other languages.... alll the scriptures are part of al kitab,
partially agree , but i would modify , All the scriptures do contain Al kitab,
The main book which rest with GOD alone,,,
agreed,
There are many other attributes given to this Arabic reading of al kitaab such as qurraan, ( reading),,,,
Do not agree, why are you translating the word Quran?
I would say , A compilation which contained A part of Alkitab in a certain language given to prophet Mohammad , is being identified As AlQuran.
we will continue
siki
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Quran is the reading of ALkitab but in arabic this time,
agreed,
Glad we agree
In the past it used to be in other languages.... alll the scriptures are part of al kitab,
partially agree , but i would modify , All the scriptures do contain Al kitab,
Either I did not express myself well or you probably misunderstood because what you said above is exactly what I wanted to say. I hold the view as well. However, they do not contain Al-Kitaab as a whole, but they form part of the Al-Kitaab. So we have agreement here as well
The main book which rest with GOD alone,,,
agreed,
Great.. one more... Praise God... we are not so different...
There are many other attributes given to this Arabic reading of al kitaab such as qurraan, ( reading),,,,
Do not agree, why are you translating the word Quran?
I am translating quran because it is meant to be translated because, although it is a noun, it might not be a proper noun. Look at the verses 7517/7518 please... we have the word quraan but with the pronoun attached to it... therefore it implies that this word is noun... and not a proper noun. For example you would not be able to attach a pronoun to Muhammad/Musa/Isa since they are proper nouns. In the verses I pointed out, you should translate Quraaanahu as its recitation/reading rather than His Quran.
Thank you
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therefore you, the Messenger guarantee/give glad tidings to My Servants;
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those who make themselves attentively listen the Word/Grand Qur'aan thereby/resultantly they incline themselves to act/follow, in letter and spirit, the best course described in that/Grand Qur'aan3918
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And you people incline yourself to physically follow, in letter and spirit there being none third party in between, the Best Course of Action of that/Grand Qur'aan which has since been sent upon/for you people from your Sustainer Lord
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before the point in time that the infliction may come to you people all of a sudden
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while you people do not have its perception". -
I am translating quran because it is meant to be translated because, although it is a noun, it might not be a proper noun. Look at the verses 7517/7518 please... we have the word quraan but with the pronoun attached to it... therefore it implies that this word is noun... and not a proper noun. For example you would not be able to attach a pronoun to Muhammad/Musa/Isa since they are proper nouns. In the verses I pointed out, you should translate Quraaanahu as its recitation/reading rather than His Quran.
All the books that i have in my house are , "Readings" but they are different from each other, How do i identify each?
How do we identify this reading which was descended to Mohammad pbuh , from other readings which were sent earlier, containing Alkitab?
And from God's standards , if he does not give a name to this reading, He should not have given names to previous readings containing Alkitab? But he does, Injeel , torah etc?
By this standard, Injeel and Torah , in their respective languages, must translate as "Readings" Do They ?
If yes, then the below statement of God is ambigious
2-185 The month of scorching heat, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide and clarification of the guidance and the criterion
Because then, how would we differentiate which "reading" is Allah referring to in above particular ayah? He is just saying that i sent down a reading in shahr ramadhan? it could be some reading sent down to Moses or Jesus or maybe some other reading to its respective reciever?
let us continue
siki
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All the books that i have in my house are , "Readings" but they are different from each other, How do i identify each?
How do we identify this reading from other readings that came previously, containing Alkitab?
siki
Very easy... none of them would have all the description of Al-Kitaab and functions altogether... all these without contradiction or crookedness.
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Look at the verses 7517/7518 please... we have the word quraan but with the pronoun attached to it... therefore it implies that this word is noun... and not a proper noun. For example you would not be able to attach a pronoun to Muhammad/Musa/Isa since they are proper nouns.Look at the verses 7517/7518 please... we have the word quraan but with the pronoun attached to it... therefore it implies that this word is noun... and not a proper noun. For example you would not be able to attach a pronoun to Muhammad/Musa/Isa since they are proper nouns.
Please give it a second thought and please elaborate the point further. "Hu" suffixed pronoun is always definite. One of the words in quoted Aayat is a verb with suffixed "hu" which is the object of verb.