Is Prophet Muhammad?s duty to deliver Quran only?: No

Leyna

Yes I agree, but here it doesnt stop the intelligent discussions, they are still going on and they are gret to learn and read while these circular guys keep chasing their tails.

Yeah, I see your point. I remember that discussing things with ignorant idiots (speaking in general, not referring to anyone on this board) would help me in a strange way to become more secure of my own point of view. When being forced to present your opinion in a logical manner and back it up with facts, you have to research things again, put your thoughts and findings into words etc., and that can indeed be helpful.

But yes it is tiring, but you know me, if I see BS I have to tread in it and splatter them with it. jedi And if I can get just one person to see the blatant shirk and total contradictions of a certain translation then I'm happy peace

Hey, I wasn't telling you to stop. peace Just saying my opinion. It seems to me that whenever I look at this board recently, there is one of those dudes going on and on about the same thing. I agree that they are just exposing themselves, and it surprises me that they don't seem to be embarrassed about that, but, hey, as long as you're enjoying yourself (which you obviously are), that's fine.

I guess I am just too exhausted at the moment, so I feel I have no time or energy for this sort of thing.

Ayisha

No one here has presented Hadith or even called for it as a support for any argument.

no, and thats why you CANNOT answer any questions you have been asked for PAGES and refused to answer! )

Leyna

It is not that I am supporting Hadith, I just want your serious comments on these.

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Ayisha

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you see! they do have their uses and entertainment value just like Akmad the terrorist did. they make you and they make you rotfl

guest

Your argument above is completely illogical. You are basically saying we should follow some dubious traditions because that's what people have been doing for ages. It's exactly what the Qur'an advises us against.

The fact is, they have said "We found our fathers following a certain way, and we are following in their footsteps."

Let?s put your logic to test

Prophet Muhammad?s daughter and few other people following Prophet Muhammad?s footsteps.

According to you they are astray and their action is completely illogical. According to you they should cease and desist. And you say you are a logical person!!!!!!

You should read and apply the verse in the context and the environment.

Ayisha

Rajah
Ayisha
It is none of my business dear Ash, but if you answer this will help me in my argument, that the times you pray and the days you fast are different from many other people's understanding, here and world over.

Let me get this right Raj.

You have asked me a question that I have NOT yet answered and you have already decided on an argument that my answer, whatever that may be, will be different to many other peoples understand here and the world over?

is that right?

So if I answered 5 times a day and 30 days fast would you still argue this is diferent to other peoples understanding the world over?

Because you said That all the Ayats are already explained,
that was Allah said that actually, I just keep having to remind you which you keep ignoring

then why we have many different understandings for how many times we have to pray? or even pray or not in the first place, will you give it a moment of thought to this.
Raj, I have given 8 years off thought to this and other things. The differences are down to people like you who ignore that Allah says it is fully detailed and fully explained and I thought you could argue that what I say will be different to other peoples understanding the world over?

Those who think that Allah had given Wisdom to Messengers as per Ayats mentioned above are very confident that it is
Five times a day, they all repeat all say it 5 times a day, but I see that so called Quran aloners are shifting through one to another, they are CONFUSED.
I have not seen ANY Quran Aloner say that Allah did NOT give Wisdom to the messengers ??? are you dreaming raj? Is that what your mind has told you has been said here?

It is not that I am supporting Hadith, I just want your serious comments on these.

of course its not that you'e supporting hadith Raj, who would think such a thing! o

I would be very happy to answer yet another question from you Raj, when you first answer the question I have been asking for about 8 pages now.

Where are the explanations of the verses?

guest

but nobody bothered to look in the book as by that time they are told what to do, they are too lazy to bother and too scared to question.

Why do you take a small subset and call it a full set. That is WRONG.

For example, RK does not fall in your category, yet you are forcing him into that category. He performed five salat a day and he was not lazy or scared.

Raaajah

Ayisha

So if I answered 5 times a day and 30 days fast would you still argue this is diferent to other peoples understanding the world over?

Yes!
I can see here at this very Forum, and many other forums, that there are two Salaats, 3, and No Salaat, one of the most convincing one is from WAKAS, with reference to Quranic verses and detailed study of the subject
Therefore if it is EXPLAINED in the Book then why the difference?
Aymen uses Quranic verses to explain that the Fast is for 10 days.

Do you understand what I mean to say, now?

that was Allah said that actually, I just keep having to remind you which you keep ignoring

That is your understanding. If it is as you say, Then why are there above differences?

Leyna I think you need a Massage, you said you are tired.

Ayisha

Let?s put your logic to test

Prophet Muhammad?s daughter and few other people following Prophet Muhammad?s footsteps.

According to you they are astray and their action is completely illogical. According to you they should cease and desist. And you say you are a logical person!!!!!!

You should read and apply the verse in the context and the environment.

What a completely illogical and twisted statement and assumption that what you follow WAS what the prophet followed when CLEARLY he followed Quran to the letter. ???

The prophet Muhammed's family and those that WERE with him and followed what he DID actually do were doing it properly. The problem lies in that over 200 years after his death, AND the death of ALL those that were with him and following him PROPERLY, some men claimed to have spoken with relatives/companions of these people going back over 2 centuries and got minimum 600,000 statements of 'the prophet said/did this or that' from people who would NEVER have met HIM OR his family and from this 600,000 less than 1% are now to date considered sahih (SOUND), including those of a known liar, and these less than 1% show hundreds of contradictions in their SOUND narrations, and these are what is followed now just as this is what was followed BEFORE Muhammed came to sort it all out YET AGAIN after the pagans got in YET AGAIN and buggered it all up after Jesus and Moses. This is exactly what happened with the message before and THIS time we have THE BOOK, the ACTUAL WORD OF GOD, how can we still go wrong? By NOT following the book and claiming the explanation is elsewhere. That is what has happened over the last few hundred years, think how long it took before prophet Jesus became 'god', 325 years maybe a bit more. Once the ORIGINAL perpetrators are gone it is easy peasy to then claim this is 'fact' and people will follow like blind sheep under CONTROL. Organized religion CONTROLS the masses and always has done. Muhammed was sent to sort this out and tell the people a final time, 'this is how it is or else and there will be no more warnings.' and no not those words exactly so I dont want 10 pages of what I said but that is the meaning, the WARNING in Quran! Muhammed was a WARNER.This is your FINAL WARNING. After almost 1400 gregorian calendar years imagine how much has changed by NOT looking at the book, by NOT studying and questioning and searching for ourselves? We will not be there on Judgement day as a group of 'sunni' or 'shia' or the mosque down the road, we will be there as individuals in front of our creator totally naked as in nothing to hide behind from Him. He will KNOW every tiny detail and He will know that you never bothered to look at and think about the greatest gift of mankind and that you prefered to have someone else tell you what to do and say and THINK. You had your warning, you buried it under a blanket and recited it occassionally from your lips, but not having it ever touch your heart or your mind enough to REFLECT ON IT because you have had a brainblock put in at birth and you have followed what you have been TOLD is Islam and you cannot possibly understand the words in the buried book you recite from so its better that you are taught by someone else other than Allah, assuming that person has taken care not to do what you do, which of course he also will have been doing all his life too.

ok? any questions please do not hesitate to get back to me peace

Ayisha

Why do you take a small subset and call it a full set. That is WRONG.

For example, RK does not fall in your category, yet you are forcing him into that category. He performed five salat a day and he was not lazy or scared.

why am I forcing him into any category? how did RK even come up in this conversation?

Who said anything about those that pray 5 times a day anyway? Are you also going to come up with so many people who fast are what you think I said about those that pray?

Why are you not answering #4? ???

Leyna

Leyna I think you need a Massage, you said you are tired.

I'm not only tired, I have a horrible flu / bronchitis and my head and bones are aching. All that in about 35?C weather. yuck

Yes, a massage would be great, thanks for making me think of that now! voodoo

Ayisha

So if I answered 5 times a day and 30 days fast would you still argue this is dif(insertion of missing f my engleesh teecher told me)erent to other peoples understanding the world over?

Yes!
I can see here at this very Forum, and many other forums, that there are two Salaats, 3, and No Salaat, one of the most convincing one is from WAKAS, with reference to Quranic verses and detailed study of the subject
Therefore if it is EXPLAINED in the Book then why the difference?
Aymen uses Quranic verses to explain that the Fast is for 10 days.

Do you understand what I mean to say, now?
ahh yes ! whatever I say you will have a sound argument against it either way right? ;D

that was Allah said that actually, I just keep having to remind you which you keep ignoring

That is your understanding. If it is as you say, Then why are there above differences?
Yes it is my understanding that Allah said this, you are free to ignore that again if you wish. There are differences because they are using their minds and see clearly that Allah made us all very different and we would understand things differently, which is how He 'tests' us in what we will 'see' in the verses. Islam is for mankind, but mankind is a group of individuals and not one of us is exactly the same as another human being, so how can we all think as a collective mass on everything?

There are ground rules that we all agree on as a mass like murder anyway, it is wrong and no one can say it is right, although I'm sure there will be 'what about this verse', but basically it is agreed that murder is wrong. This is INBUILT in us at birth or before that we know right from wrong. But the spiritual/connection with our creator and anything that encompasses that is an individual thing. We cannot patch in our mate next to us on OUR OWN connection with Allah like we can do a 3 way phone conversation, it does not work like that if there is a connection at all. If not then its ritual that is surface anyway.

Leyna I think you need a Massage, you said you are tired.

Are you in Egypt? ???

Ayisha

I'm not only tired, I have a horrible flu / bronchitis and my head and bones are aching. All that in about 35?C weather. yuck

Honey, lemon, bath, sleep! Hope you feel better soon group

Leyna

Are you in Egypt? ???

;D ;D ;D

Honey, lemon, bath, sleep! Hope you feel better soon group

I'm having miso soup (with onions + lots of chilis), a hot bath, mangos. And antibiotics, ugh! yuck I hate taking drugs.

Ayisha

Guest, Yoo Hoo! yay

How do you do # 4?

I asked about #4 though, this was not #4

so, how about #4

Why are you not answering #4?

Raaajah

Ayisha

There are ground rules that we all agree on as a mass like murder anyway, it is wrong and no one can say it is right, although I'm sure there will be 'what about this verse', but basically it is agreed that murder is wrong. This is INBUILT in us at birth or before that we know right from wrong. But the spiritual/connection with our creator and anything that encompasses that is an individual thing. We cannot patch in our mate next to us on OUR OWN connection with Allah like we can do a 3 way phone conversation, it does not work like that if there is a connection at all. If not then its ritual that is surface anyway.

Now you start talking Philosophy laugh
Your whole post above clearly indicates that the verses are not clear to every on, if every one starts to has his own understanding result would be FREE-MInds rotfl.

Yes it is my understanding that Allah said this, you are free to ignore that again if you wish. There are differences because they are using their minds and see clearly that Allah made us all very different and we would understand things differently, which is how He 'tests' us in what we will 'see' in the verses. Islam is for mankind, but mankind is a group of individuals and not one of us is exactly the same as another human being, so how can we all think as a collective mass on everything?

Why are you trying to prove that Allah did not said the truth? why? Practically it is not happening, it cannot until and unless you have some one to explain it to you who has authority from Allah to do so. That is what you said we all cannot think collectively.

Raaajah

Way Finder in case you not read this post under the HEAP of posts by Ayisha

This is pure conjecture... The inscription is clearly written in ancient arabic therefore it was common to the arabs... Similar to the name Allah itself... Arabs knew all these... the problem was their focus... and association to these names... this is what Muhammad came to change and rectify. The name Ar-Rahman is even present is some pre-islamic poetry in sabaen. Moreover, the name was also very well known among the people of the Book. So just because one or two men seems to believe it otherwise does not change this fact. From the inscription itself... It suggests that Ar-Rahman was even a deity in the pre-islamic arabia since the writing has been made in the name of Ar-Rahman.

So spare us with bogus claims and conjecture.

Conjecture? are you sure it is Conjecture? You are proving that despite being well versed in Arabic You have no understanding of Quran

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And when it is said unto them Prostrate to al-Rahmn! they say And what is al-Rahmn? Are we to prostrate to whatever thou biddest us? And it increaseth aversion in them.

Will you not believe then?

Ayisha

Now you start talking Philosophy laugh
Strange concept for you I know Raj

Your whole post above clearly indicates that the verses are not clear to every on, if every one starts to has his own understanding result would be FREE-MInds rotfl.
another strange concept for you Raj? Typical of those reactions spoken of in Quran too, how strange

Yes it is my understanding that Allah said this, you are free to ignore that again if you wish. There are differences because they are using their minds and see clearly that Allah made us all very different and we would understand things differently, which is how He 'tests' us in what we will 'see' in the verses. Islam is for mankind, but mankind is a group of individuals and not one of us is exactly the same as another human being, so how can we all think as a collective mass on everything?

Why are you trying to prove that Allah did not said the truth? why?

What a strange thing to say! Allah says it is for Him to explain and that is my understanding yes, do you disagree? So how in your mind could you possibly have twisted that to mean I am trying to "prove that Allah did not said the truth"

Practically it is not happening, it cannot until and unless you have some one to explain it to you who has authority from Allah to do so. That is what you said we all cannot think collectively.

so who would that be? Who NOW has 'authority from Allah' to explain it to us? Either you think there are those here NOW that have authority from Allah to explain it to us OR you mean Muhammed, who is NOT HERE and we are back to my question, where are the explanations Raj? Because if what you say is true and we cannot use the book as we cannot understand it without someone with authority from Allah to explain it then we really are stuffed arent we.

I knew that my previous post would go right over your head.

guest

Guest, Yoo Hoo! yay

How do you do # 4?

I asked about #4 though, this was not #4

so, how about #4

Why are you not answering #4?

56 - O you who believe, when you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), you shall (1) wash your faces, (2) wash your arms to the elbows, (3) wipe your heads, and (4) wash your feet to the ankles. If you were unclean due to sexual orgasm, you shall bathe. If you are ill, or traveling, or had any digestive excretion (urinary, fecal, or gas), or had (sexual) contact with the women, and you cannot find water, you shall observe the dry ablution (Tayammum) by touching clean dry soil, then rubbing your faces and hands. GOD does not wish to make the religion difficult for you; He wishes to cleanse you and to perfect His blessing upon you, that you may be appreciative.

Ayisha

Peace Ayisha,

Here is some example of correct understanding of verses

Preservation five daily salat time, way to conduct them, ?.
Ramadan ~30 days fasting, breakfast right after sunset,?..
Hajj when to perform them and how
Pre-wash for salat
Salat during war
And many more

The correct understanding has been preserved for us. We do them just the way Prophet Muhammad did them.

How do you do # 4?

56 - O you who believe, when you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), you shall (1) wash your faces, (2) wash your arms to the elbows, (3) wipe your heads, and (4) wash your feet to the ankles. If you were unclean due to sexual orgasm, you shall bathe. If you are ill, or traveling, or had any digestive excretion (urinary, fecal, or gas), or had (sexual) contact with the women, and you cannot find water, you shall observe the dry ablution (Tayammum) by touching clean dry soil, then rubbing your faces and hands. GOD does not wish to make the religion difficult for you; He wishes to cleanse you and to perfect His blessing upon you, that you may be appreciative.

so how is that NOT understood and fully explained IN the verse?

I asked how YOU do it, considering you said the verses are not 'correctly understood' and that the 'correct understanding' has been preserved for us and that is the way Muhammed did it.

Now, how do YOU do it?

I will add, how many times do you wash your arms to the elbow and which arm first? is there a specific ORDER to do this in? How many times do you wash each foot to the ankle or is putting your foot under a running tap enough? Do you do anything ELSE?