Childre of Israel , Media or jerusalem?
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The son from the request is Isaac not Ishmael. If Abraham had prayed for the first son then Sarah his wife would have bore him, not Hagar the handmaiden. The son prayed for was Isaac and that was the son of the sacrifice.
3799- Talks about his migration from his own nation.
37100 Prayer for a son.
37101 Prayer responded, "particle Fa" is the indicative; good news of a son given.
37102 The granted son grows to the age of moving and working with him.
37103-111 The episode of sacrifice narrated.
37112 And further information about news of grant of Ishaq alahissalam given.
Here in 37112 what makes you to presume that Ishaq alahissalam is the son granted in response to prayer mentioned in 37100 which had already been met and accomplished in 37101?
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3799- Talks about his migration from his own nation.
37100 Prayer for a son.
37101 Prayer responded, "particle Fa" is the indicative; good news of a son given.
37102 The granted son grows to the age of moving and working with him.
37103-111 The episode of sacrifice narrated.
37112 And further information about news of grant of Ishaq alahissalam given.
Here in 37112 what makes you to presume that Ishaq alahissalam is the son granted in response to prayer mentioned in 37100 which had already been met and accomplished in 37101?
Putting 37 and 21 together pretty much line by line, they recount the same story. take careful notice of the verse numbers
21.51 We bestowed aforetime on Abraham his rectitude of conduct, and well were We acquainted with him.
37.83 Verily among those who followed his Way was Abraham.
37.84 Behold! he approached his Lord with a sound heart.
21.52 Behold! he said to his father and his people, "What are these images, to which ye are (so assiduously) devoted?"
37.85 Behold! he said to his father and to his people, "What is that which ye worship?
37.86 "Is it a falsehood- gods other than Allah- that ye desire?21.53 They said, "We found our fathers worshipping them."
21.54 He said, "Indeed ye have been in manifest error - ye and your fathers."
21.55 They said, "Have you brought us the Truth, or are you one of those who jest?"37.87 "Then what is your idea about the Lord of the worlds?"
37.88 Then did he cast a glance at the Stars.21.56 He said, "Nay, your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, He Who created them (from nothing) and I am a witness to this (Truth).
21.57 "And by Allah, I have a plan for your idols - after ye go away and turn your backs"..37.89 And he said, "I am indeed sick (at heart)!"
37.90 So they turned away from him, and departed.
37.91 Then did he turn to their gods and said, "will ye not eat (of the offerings before you)?...
37.92 "What is the matter with you that ye speak not (intelligently)?"
37.93 Then did he turn upon them, striking (them) with the right hand.21.58 So he broke them to pieces, (all) but the biggest of them, that they might turn (and address themselves) to it.
37.94 Then came (the worshippers) with hurried steps, and faced (him).
21.59 They said, "Who has done this to our gods? He must indeed be some man of impiety!"
21.60 They said, "We heard a youth talk of them He is called Abraham."
21.61 They said, "Then bring him before the eyes of the people, that they may bear witness."
21.62 They said, "Art thou the one that did this with our gods, O Abraham?"37.95 He said "Worship ye that which ye have (yourselves) carved?
37.96 "But Allah has created you and your handwork!"21.63 He said "Nay, this was done by - this is their biggest one! ask them, if they can speak intelligently!"
21.64 So they turned to themselves and said, "Surely ye are the ones in the wrong!"
21.65 Then were they confounded with shame (they said), "Thou knowest full well that these (idols) do not speak!
21.66 (Abraham) said, "Do ye then worship, besides Allah, things that can neither be of any good to you nor do you harm?
21.67 "Fie upon you, and upon the things that ye worship besides Allah! Have ye no sense?"..
21.68 They said, "Burn him and protect your gods, If ye do (anything at all)!"37.97 They said, "Build him a furnace, and throw him into the blazing fire!"
21.69 We said, "O Fire! be thou cool, and (a means of) safety for Abraham!
21.70 Then they sought a stratagem against him but We made them the ones that lost most!37.98 (This failing), they then sought a stratagem against him, but We made them the ones most humiliated!
21.71 But We delivered him and (his nephew) Lut (and directed them) to the land which We have blessed for the nations.
21.72 And We bestowed on him Isaac and, as an additional gift, (a grandson), Jacob, and We made righteous men of every one (of them).37.99 He said "I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me!
37.100 "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
37.101 So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.The righteous son prayed for and promised was Isaac, the additonal gift was the grandson Jacob.
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Ayisha,
This shows you have perfectly understood that you were wrong, but wish to stick to your point even through bluff.
You abruptly stop at 37101 from where the issue begins and you wishfully conlude "The righteous son prayed for and promised was Isaac, the additonal gift was the grandson Jacob".Here there is no mention of Yaqub .
Instead immediately after narrating information about sacrifice the information about good news of another son Ishaque alahissalam is mentioned. -
Ayisha,
This shows you have perfectly understood that you were wrong, but wish to stick to your point even through bluff.
You abruptly stop at 37101 from where the issue begins and you wishfully conlude "The righteous son prayed for and promised was Isaac, the additonal gift was the grandson Jacob".
You have showed you did not read it nor look at the verses.I stopped at 37.101 as you know the rest and it does not say it was Ishmael that was sacrificed but says it was Isaac that was the son prayed for as 21.72 shows which lines up with 37.101, Isaac being the son.
Here there is no mention of Yaqub .
Instead immediately after narrating information about sacrifice the information about good news of another son Ishaque alahissalam is mentioned.21.72 mentions Jacob
After the naration of the sacrifice in 37, which is not in 21 which is the same event in 37, it says that Allah HAD granted him that righteous son, the one that laid down fo sacrifice which was Isaac.
21.51-72 is the same event as 37.83-101
21.72 says the name of the child is Isaac, 37.101 says we gave him good news of a boy which is named in 21.72 as Isaac.
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I stopped at 37.101 as you know the rest and it does not say it was Ishmael that was sacrificed but says it was Isaac that was the son prayed for as 21.72 shows which lines up with 37.101, Isaac being the son.
You now consciously avoid to read jointly 37100 and 37112. These two mention two sons, one earlier and the second afterwards. The episode is in between the two from 37101 to 37111. In 37112 is mentioned Ishaque alahissalm by name. Who is the son in 37101 who faced the sacrifice episode?
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You now consciously avoid to read jointly 37100 and 37112. These two mention two sons, one earlier and the second afterwards. The episode is in between the two from 37101 to 37111. In 37112 is mentioned Ishaque alahissalm by name. Who is the son in 37101 who faced the sacrifice episode?
Mazhar please do not accuse me of consciously doing what you do all the time. I have avoided nothing.
37.100-112 does not mention 2 sons. You are consciously avoiding seeing that 21.72 is the same event at 37.101 and that in 21.72 the son is named as Isaac. YOU have decided that 2 sons are mentioned because of the sequence only in 37.
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32.23 We did indeed aforetime give the Book to Moses be not then in doubt of its reaching (thee) and We made it a guide to the Children of Israel.
37.101 So We gave him the good news (Fabashsharnahu) of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.
37.112 And We gave him the good news (Wabashsharnahu)of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
37.113 We blessed him and Isaac but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to their own souls.
6.84 We gave him Isaac and Jacob all (three) guided and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron thus do We reward those who do good
You could read that as David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron were all before Abraham, they weren't
38.45 And commemorate Our Servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, possessors of Power and Vision.
38.46 Verily We did choose them for a special (purpose)- proclaiming the Message of the Hereafter.11.71 And his wife was standing (there), and she laughed But we gave her glad tidings (fabashsharnaha)of Isaac, and after him, of Jacob
15.53 They said "Fear not! We give thee glad tidings (nubashiruka)of a son endowed with wisdom."
15.54 He said "Do ye give me glad tidings that old age has seized me? Of what, then, is your good news?"51.28 (When they did not eat), He conceived a fear of them. They said, "Fear not," and they gave him glad tidings of a son endowed with knowledge.
There was never any 'good news' of the son Ishmael as that was down to Sarah asking Abraham to have a child with hagar the handmaiden, not of asking God for a righteous son. The son prayed for by both Abraham and sarah was Issac, not Ishmael.
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37.101 So We gave him the good news (Fabashsharnahu) of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.
37.112 And We gave him the good news (Wabashsharnahu)of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
And you say both these "good news" relate to one son, Ishaque alahissalm. Thereat I can only suggest to start taking an elementary course in Arabic otherwise you will keep reading Qur'aan with the eye of so called Torah or Jews hadith.
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What is verse 28.49 saying? What are the 'both these two'?
Mazhar you didn't answer this
Pagan leaders were responded about what they stated and mentioned in 2848
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you, the Messenger ask them, "Then come to me with a book received from Allah which is a better guide than both two of them, I will follow that, if you people are truthful in your assertions to people"This talks about Toraat from Allah given in writing on tablets, it has nothing to do with tales and conjectural myths written by people under the caption/title Torah.
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Pagan leaders were responded about what they stated and mentioned in 2848
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you, the Messenger ask them, "Then come to me with a book received from Allah which is a better guide than both two of them, I will follow that, if you people are truthful in your assertions to people"This talks about Toraat from Allah given in writing on tablets, it has nothing to do with tales and conjectural myths written by people under the caption/title Torah.
The 2 of them are Torah and Quran and nowhere does it say it is refering to stone tablets but it is clear the Torah was with them then and Muhammed says "Then come to me with a book received from Allah which is a better guide than both two of them." according to your translation. This confirms Torah as a guide as well as Quran and confirms Torah to be a BOOK.
32.23 We did indeed aforetime give the Book to Moses be not then in doubt of its reaching (thee) and We made it a guide to the Children of Israel.
The BOOK of Moses was still around when Muhammed was given Quran and is still around NOW. There is nothing in Quran to say its not and nothing to say what we have now (which is same as we had then) is not Torah. Quran is clearly telling you this is also a guide and there is none better than Torah and Quran.
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And you say both these "good news" relate to one son, Ishaque alahissalm. Thereat I can only suggest to start taking an elementary course in Arabic otherwise you will keep reading Qur'aan with the eye of so called Torah or Jews hadith.
I am saying all the above relate to that one son Isaac.
If you think otherwise then there are numerous verses telling of the good news of Isaac and only the one you think is about Ishmael is before he was to be sacrificed.
The covenant was with the 'children of Israel' Israel was Jacob who was the son of Isaac.
2.40 O Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your covenant with Me as I fulfil My Covenant with you, and fear none but Me.29.27 And We gave (Abraham) Isaac and Jacob, and ordained among his progeny Prophethood and Revelation, and We granted him his reward in this life; and he was in the Hereafter (of the company) of the Righteous.
57.26 And We sent Noah and Abraham, and established in their line Prophethood and Revelation and some of them were on right guidance. But many of them became rebellious transgressors.
6.84 We gave him Isaac and Jacob all (three) guided and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron thus do We reward those who do good
The line of prophethood was from Abraham through Isaac through Jacob (Israel).
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This confirms Torah as a guide as well as Quran and confirms Torah to be a BOOK.
32.23 We did indeed aforetime give the Book to Moses be not then in doubt of its reaching (thee) and We made it a guide to the Children of Israel. Ayisha
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and/i.e. He had sent Tor'aat and In'jeel,
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in the past times before this Book , as a guide for people;
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And He has since sent The Criterion . -
Quote from Mazhar on Today at 035349 PM
And you say both these "good news" relate to one son, Ishaque alahissalm. Thereat I can only suggest to start taking an elementary course in Arabic otherwise you will keep reading Qur'aan with the eye of so called Torah or Jews hadith.I am saying all the above relate to that one son Isaac.
But how?
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and/i.e. He had sent Tor'aat and In'jeel,
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in the past times before this Book , as a guide for people;
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And He has since sent The Criterion .Yes but that does not say that the Torah we have is NOT the Torah does it, which is what you are saying and is not supported by Quran
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Yes but that does not say that the Torah we have is NOT the Torah does it, which is what you are saying and is not supported by Quran
But what about this, the decisive source!
And He has since sent The Criterion .What is the credibility of so called Torah, is any better than hadith literature? Rather more unreliable and conjectural. And listen about those whom Toraat was given
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they distort the statement out of its context in a different angle/dimension/perspective ;
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and they have forgotten a part about which they were reminded
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and you will never cease to to receive information about some treachery on their part except for a few of them .
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Therefore divert yourself from them ignoring what they do and leave them .Surat 5 Ayat 13
Why you wish to be with them placing reliance on their stories?
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But what about this, the decisive source!
And He has since sent The Criterion .The decisive source is what is telling you about the Torah!
What is the credibility of so called Torah, is any better than hadith literature? Rather more unreliable and conjectural. And listen about those whom Toraat was given
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they distort the statement out of its context in a different angle/dimension/perspective ;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.013f.giflayyan bi-alsinatihim, twisting with their tongues, just like sunni do when they say 'take whatever the prophet gives you' means everything in hadith and not the spoils of war that the BOOK says it means! This does not change what's in the BOOK itself though. Torah is only the first 5 books of Old Testament, the other parts are the HADITH on Moses they call the ORAL Torah. ORAL = spoken. The information I am looking at is Torah, not Talmud.
and they have forgotten a part about which they were reminded
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and you will never cease to to receive information about some treachery on their part except for a few of them .
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Therefore divert yourself from them ignoring what they do and leave them .Surat 5 Ayat 13
Why you wish to be with them placing reliance on their stories?
NONE of this is telling you the BOOK is changed but is warning you thay changed what they SAY about it just like the hadith of Muhammed change what Quran actually says.
I am not being with anyone who changes anything that God says, why do you assume the BOOK is changed when Allah clearly tells you it is what they SAY that is incorrect? Obviously the Torah itself is still as is because He also says those that follow IT are right. Just like there are a portion of Jews, Christians and Muslims that change what God said with THEIR tongues does not mean that Quran or Torah themselves have been changed.
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But what about this, the decisive source!
And He has since sent The Criterion .The decisive source is what is telling you about the Torah!
This is exactly what is told
"they distort the statement out of its context in a different angle/dimension/perspective;"
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This is exactly what is told
"they distort the statement out of its context in a different angle/dimension/perspective;"
That is not telling you about the Torah, that is telling you about the PEOPLE of the Torah.
This is confirming the Torah at the time of Muhammed was original
5.43 But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.This is confirming the Torah at the time of Jesus was original
3.50 And confirming to what (is) between my hands from the Torah and to permit/allow for you some (of) what was forbidden on you, and I came to you with a sign/evidence from your Lord, so fear and obey God and obey me.61.6 And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"
This is showing that those who had the Torah failed it, just as those that have Quran fail it
62.5 The similitude of those who were charged with the (obligations of the) Mosaic Law, but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is that of a donkey which carries huge tomes (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of Allah and Allah guides not people who do wrong.This speaks for itself
5.68 Say "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.5.44 It was We who revealed the law (to Moses) therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book, and they were witnesses thereto therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise) they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded that is the achievement supreme.
28.49 Say "Then bring ye a Book from Allah, which is a better guide than either of them, (Torah and Quran) that I may follow it! (do), if ye are truthful!"
46.12 And before this, was the Book of Moses as a guide and a mercy And this Book confirms (it) in the Arabic tongue; to admonish the unjust, and as Glad Tidings to those who do right.
That is just a few, and all you come up with is "This is exactly what is told
"they distort the statement out of its context in a different angle/dimension/perspective;""
That is not exactly what is told is it Mazhar, you are like those that sell the truth for a paltry price or hide it.
And I notice you avoided the rest of my post.