Childre of Israel , Media or jerusalem?
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How do you prove Quran is from Allah and not written by Muhammed from his own thoughts?
It looks strange question from a lady quoting dozens of Aayat in one go from Qur'aan. Perhaps there are dozen of Ayat on this topic saying it is not compiled and drafted by the Messenger of Allah. And this perception of some people is challenged by asking them to produce from anywhere from the whole of world a similar one if they genuinely believe if it was authored by him.
taken out of context again Mazhar? You must really be struggling with this one ;D
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I know many muslims who will not even touch the Arabic Quran until they have done wudu, the Jews do not touch the Torah AT ALL with their hands, a stick of some kind is used to turn the pages.
Such were petty tricks of clergy to keep people away from the Original Book and restrict them to what they gossip.
The Muslim clergy or the Jewish clergy?
Neither keeps anyone away from the original book though.
You are really struggling aren't you ;D
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http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.043.gif
And how they accept/appoint you, the Messenger, as Judge when with them is the Tor'aat wherein is written the Command of Allah afterwards despite this Command they turn away,http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.043a.gif
and they are certainly not the believers.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.157f%20small.gif
who physically follow that Messenger who is the Chosen and Elevated from amongst those who were not given the Book earlier. That Chosen and Elevated about whom they find mentioned in writing with them in the Tor'aat and the In'jeel.Does your so called torah contain this in writing? If not then how could you consider it Toraat given by Allah to Musa alahissalam? If you dont find this written therein then either you have to treat your so called torah as nothing but jew hadith more unreliable than that of Bukhari's or else you have to plainly deny to believe in the word of Allah recorded in Qur'aan.
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http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.157f%20small.gif
who physically follow that Messenger who is the Chosen and Elevated from amongst those who were not given the Book earlier. That Chosen and Elevated about whom they find mentioned in writing with them in the Tor'aat and the In'jeel.Does your so called torah contain this in writing? If not then how could you consider it Toraat given by Allah to Musa alahissalam? If you dont find this written therein then either you have to treat your so called torah as nothing but jew hadith more unreliable than that of Bukhari's or else you have to plainly deny to believe in the word of Allah recorded in Qur'aan.
Yes it does.
I am the one here saying that I DO believe Quran when it clearly tells me Torah reached Muhammed and is the Torah Allah gave Moses and YOU are the one here DENYING that Allah even had any idea what He was talking about!
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Does your so called torah contain this in writing? If not then how could you consider it Toraat given by Allah to Musa alahissalam? If you dont find this written therein then either you have to treat your so called torah as nothing but jew hadith more unreliable than that of Bukhari's or else you have to plainly deny to believe in the word of Allah recorded in Qur'aan.
Just one minute here Mazhar. I have posted you verses regarding Allah saying He confirmed Torah was sent by Him, that this Torah reached Muhammed and that the jews of that time are told to judge by IT. Now if YOU do not believe what Allah says in Quran then it is YOU that deny the word of Allah.
Now unless you can bring me a surah saying this Torah spoken of by Allah in Quran is NOT the Torah that He originally gave Moses and was still in existance when Muhammed got Quran, then you are going to have to either agree it IS or agree that YOU deny the word of Allah in Quran.
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Just one minute here Mazhar. I have posted you verses regarding Allah saying He confirmed Torah was sent by Him, that this Torah reached Muhammed and that the jews of that time are told to judge by IT. Now if YOU do not believe what Allah says in Quran then it is YOU that deny the word of Allah.
Now unless you can bring me a surah saying this Torah spoken of by Allah in Quran is NOT the Torah that He originally gave Moses and was still in existance when Muhammed got Quran, then you are going to have to either agree it IS or agree that YOU deny the word of Allah in Quran.
I am talking about only that book which you refer as torah. You consider it to be the Original Toraat given to Musa alahissalam.
And Qur'aan tells specific statement having been written in the Toraat.Now if that torah of yours is the Original Toraat, as you persistently claim, then what Allah says is written in black and white therein, you must find that in your torah.
If you don't find it then either of the two statements you will have to decide, i.e.
(1) the book you refer as torah is not Toraat which was given in writing to Musa alahissalam, or
(2) you negate the statement of Qur'aan saying it was not written in Toraat given to Musa alahissalm.
I don't know why this simple thing you are avoiding.
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Just one minute here Mazhar. I have posted you verses regarding Allah saying He confirmed Torah was sent by Him, that this Torah reached Muhammed and that the jews of that time are told to judge by IT. Now if YOU do not believe what Allah says in Quran then it is YOU that deny the word of Allah.
Now unless you can bring me a surah saying this Torah spoken of by Allah in Quran is NOT the Torah that He originally gave Moses and was still in existance when Muhammed got Quran, then you are going to have to either agree it IS or agree that YOU deny the word of Allah in Quran.
That is a pretty interesting position. You do know that bits of the Talmud miraculously made it to the Quran. What are your thoughts on that? Plus there are parts of the ''Torah'' that are quoted in the Quran and it is simply not in the Jewish Torah!
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I am talking about only that book which you refer as torah. You consider it to be the Original Toraat given to Musa alahissalam.
And Qur'aan tells specific statement having been written in the Toraat.Now if that torah of yours is the Original Toraat, as you persistently claim, then what Allah says is written in black and white therein, you must find that in your torah.
If you don't find it then either of the two statements you will have to decide, i.e.
(1) the book you refer as torah is not Toraat which was given in writing to Musa alahissalam, or
(2) you negate the statement of Qur'aan saying it was not written in Toraat given to Musa alahissalm.
I don't know why this simple thing you are avoiding.
Not avoiding it at all, I answered it on the previous page directly after you asked it.
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That is a pretty interesting position. You do know that bits of the Talmud miraculously made it to the Quran. What are your thoughts on that?
which bits Rami, I would be interested to know and look at that too.Plus there are parts of the ''Torah'' that are quoted in the Quran and it is simply not in the Jewish Torah!
again which bits please.
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Perhaps posts went ogether
I am sometimes fast, but not fast enough to answer you at the same time you ask the question.Please quote it from torah.
Spoken to Moses
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. -
Pl also quote few before this so that "them" also becomes clear.
1The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and his inheritance.
2Therefore shall they have no inheritance among their brethren the LORD is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them.
3And this shall be the priest's due from the people, from them that offer a sacrifice, whether it be ox or sheep; and they shall give unto the priest the shoulder, and the two cheeks, and the maw.
4The firstfruit also of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the first of the fleece of thy sheep, shalt thou give him.
5For the LORD thy God hath chosen him out of all thy tribes, to stand to minister in the name of the LORD, him and his sons for ever.
6And if a Levite come from any of thy gates out of all Israel, where he sojourned, and come with all the desire of his mind unto the place which the LORD shall choose;
7Then he shall minister in the name of the LORD his God, as all his brethren the Levites do, which stand there before the LORD.
8They shall have like portions to eat, beside that which cometh of the sale of his patrimony.
9When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
13Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
14For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.
15The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously thou shalt not be afraid of him.
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which bits Rami, I would be interested to know and look at that too.
For this reason was man created alone, to teach that whoever destroys a single life, it is as if he has destroyed an entire world; and whoever preserves a single life, it is as if he has saved an entire world. --Talmud, Sanhedrin 37a
Because of this, we decreed for the Children of Israel that anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people. And anyone who spares a life, it shall be as if he spared the lives of all the people. --Quran, Surah 532
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB1Ms9-2XgY
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8mchVVB3swagain which bits please.
9111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise) they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded that is the achievement supreme.
4829 Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.
An additional interesting thing is the similarity between the Quran and the Book of Enoch, a pseudepigraphical book!
http//www.youtube.com/user/enochquran
Peace.
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Peace all,
I did a little research to find the oldest existing Torah and Bible on the net. And the result is very surprising.
Did you know that the oldest copy of al-quran we have today predates the oldest existing copies of the Torah and the Bible.
Please check this info for yourself.
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For this reason was man created alone, to teach that whoever destroys a single life, it is as if he has destroyed an entire world; and whoever preserves a single life, it is as if he has saved an entire world. --Talmud, Sanhedrin 37a
Because of this, we decreed for the Children of Israel that anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people. And anyone who spares a life, it shall be as if he spared the lives of all the people. --Quran, Surah 532
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB1Ms9-2XgY
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8mchVVB3swInteresting! Also interesting are the videos from the 'muhammed plagarized the bible' brigade laugh
So rami, does this find tell you that Muhammed copied from Judaism or that Quran has been tampered with or that there is some TRUTH in the Jewish books? o
9111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise) they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded that is the achievement supreme.
So this is in the part you said are not in Torah, right?
This is saying that Allah has made a binding promise on Himself that the believers get into paradise, the other bits are really peripherals, its about believers and the promise that Allah has made through all His books that believers get paradise/rewarded. Are you saying its not in Torah?Can you clarify what exactly you think is not in the Torah that should be.
4829 Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.
Not quite sure again which bits of this you are referring to.
Are you saying that in Torah it doesn't say they have 'marks on their faces' from prostration? There is plenty of 'face to the floor' in Torah! I dont think this verse means there will actually be a 'mark' on the face, although here in Egypt men do rub the forehead on the floor a lot to give a physical 'mark' of prayer as they think it does mean a physical mark, but there are tonsssssssss who pray and don't have the bruise. But its saying this is their similitude, they are similar to those in Torah meaning a lot of prostrating and face to the floor of those who believe and be constantly seeking God's pleasure, which certainly Abraham, Moses, Noah Jacob etc etc from the Torah did do, just as Muhammed and those who were with him did and believers now do.
An additional interesting thing is the similarity between the Quran and the Book of Enoch, a pseudepigraphical book!
http//www.youtube.com/user/enochquran
Peace.
A what book?? ???
book of Enoch, there are different ones, are among the 'Lost Books' (now found), meaning those thrown out by Nicene Council in 325ad possibly.I have not read it but will search and give it a read.
The video was enlightening though and am now searching Emerald Tablets ;D
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peace someone,
Not sure if thats true, e.g. http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=SETcc5VKR5Y http//codexsinaiticus.org/en/
This is supposed to be the oldest in existance and found in Sinai at St Catherines, it's quite famous. Similarly the Nag Hamadi scrolls also found in Egypt are confirming that what we have is true.
