Muslims and non-muslims
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peace
I was involved in a discussion today about the good things that people do in their life. It's obvious that many people can be honest, faithful, kind, patient, a good neighbour, loving family member and many more things, without ''religion'' or specifically in this case, without Islam. Well, I mean, I base this on the fact that I know many non-Muslims who are good people. If I compare the Muslims and non-Muslims I know it doesn't seem that the non-Muslims are missing much. In other words there are good and bad people in both groups.
So this brought discussion to what is the difference.
Basically all that came up was the fact that when Muslims act positively and do the right thing, as stated in Quran (and of course all of those I was discussing this with also listed hadith along with Quran), then they receive the reward for that - they are getting closer to jannah. Whereas the non-muslims I was told, do not have that.
what else is there to this story?
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You might find this article interesting
http//www.free-minds.org/node/10Excellent Wakas, thank you.
Wow, the Yusuf Ali translation of 4133 says Who is better in speech than one who calls men to Allah, works righteousness and says "I am of those who bow in Islam?"
To me it reads way differently to "Who can utter better words than one who 1) invites to GOD, 2) works righteousness, and says, 3) "I am one of the Submitters"?" (4133)
Can I just ask, what makes anyone so sure that those 3 Quran quotes (under "Who are the Muslims?" are necessarily a full description of what it means to be a submitter/Muslim? What if they weren't meant to be a full description but rather just mentioning a couple of things?
Though, when I read this quote "Who is better in his religion than one who a) submits himself to GOD, b) while he does good, according to the creed of Abraham monotheism? GOD has chosen Abraham as a beloved friend." (4125) - then it seems more definitive to me.
I felt comfortable reading the part about "Doing good works?" since that was the conclusion I came to through simply looking at the world and seeing what goes on in it. I can see that knowledge of how to act in built in, though that does not mean we always follow it to the letter unfortunately.
I'm not sure that this really answers my initial question which was where the difference between non-Muslim and muslim lies. Am I missing something?
It's a great article though and I need to read it further and really think about all the information it's giving.
PS "* It must be noted that 'idolatry/shirk' nullifies any good work and ends with a person in hell (572)" Right, well that's a concern for all of those worshipping Muhammad then o ...glad I stopped -[
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Rana
I heard somewhere, don't ask me who or where, but there was a traveller of dignity a hundred years ago or something that said "I have found a lot of islam in non-muslim countries in Europe and a lot of non-muslims in islamic countries in the middle east."
My memory is reeaally bad, don't know if I got the quote right, but basically what it was trying to say was that back then the european "way" was actually very close to the "islamic" way. I think it is still close, when I read the Quran the first time I said to myself many times "so what is the difference? this is basically what my mama taught me, how to be a good and decent human being."
The imam (really nice imam) I used to talk to said to me that I basically was a muslim but I just didn't know it until I read the Quran, which makes sense......If you look at how we are to act towards ourselves and eachother, I think there is really no difference between a decent non-muslim and a decent muslim, nor is there a difference in what is right and wrong. The difference however is on what source we use to come to the same conclusion. Like me, before I read the Quran I based my conclusions and actions on what my parents taught me, my upbringing so to say. Now, post-Quran I believe what God has taught me. I am a lucky guy because I was brought up in a home where love, compassion, morality and respect for others and nature was taught, so basically the same as God's law....For me to convert was not a big step, I just follow my same old way, with some small practical changes of course....
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the thing that really comforts me about islam is that unlike most religions, the God portrayed in the Quran implies that good deeds count a LOT towards saving yourself..you dont necessarily need to be following the quran to be "saved"...God isnt putting the emphasis on His word as much as he is on doing good....mainstream christianity believes in recognising and accepting jesus's sacrifice in order to be saved (jesus's words in the bible indicate otherwise though)..but islam is more about doing good and acting righteously, even if ur agnostic...atleast thats wat i think..now..lol ...my beliefs are quite subject to change as i read more andmore...inshallah i will get all my answers and be truly guided at some point of life )
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The imam (really nice imam) I used to talk to said to me that I basically was a muslim but I just didn't know it until I read the Quran, which makes sense......
If you look at how we are to act towards ourselves and eachother, I think there is really no difference between a decent non-muslim and a decent muslim, nor is there a difference in what is right and wrong. The difference however is on what source we use to come to the same conclusion.
It's nice what the imam told you. )
Thanks for your input.
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the thing that really comforts me about islam is that unlike most religions, the God portrayed in the Quran implies that good deeds count a LOT towards saving yourself..you dont necessarily need to be following the quran to be "saved"...God isnt putting the emphasis on His word as much as he is on doing good....mainstream christianity believes in recognising and accepting jesus's sacrifice in order to be saved (jesus's words in the bible indicate otherwise though)..but islam is more about doing good and acting righteously, even if ur agnostic...atleast thats wat i think..now..lol ...my beliefs are quite subject to change as i read more andmore...inshallah i will get all my answers and be truly guided at some point of life
I think we all change our ideas as we learn more...we grow. I like to have an emphasis on doing good too. It seems healthier to me. peace
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peace
I was involved in a discussion today about the good things that people do in their life. It's obvious that many people can be honest, faithful, kind, patient, a good neighbour, loving family member and many more things, without ''religion'' or specifically in this case, without Islam. Well, I mean, I base this on the fact that I know many non-Muslims who are good people. If I compare the Muslims and non-Muslims I know it doesn't seem that the non-Muslims are missing much. In other words there are good and bad people in both groups.
So this brought discussion to what is the difference.
Basically all that came up was the fact that when Muslims act positively and do the right thing, as stated in Quran (and of course all of those I was discussing this with also listed hadith along with Quran), then they receive the reward for that - they are getting closer to jannah. Whereas the non-muslims I was told, do not have that.
what else is there to this story?
Salaam.
Gotta ask yourself this question
are you doing good for the right reasons?
God knows Best.Salaam.
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Salaam.
Gotta ask yourself this question
are you doing good for the right reasons?
God knows Best.Salaam.
Wasalaam.
Yes motivation is very, very important. If I understand you correctly you are pointing to the reason why Muslims do things i.e. for God. That is, I guess, pretty much what it all came down to at the mosque - that is once we got away from all the Muslims need the Quran and hadith to know how to do good things way of thinking.
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You might find this article interesting
http//www.free-minds.org/node/10Wakas, you post some realy cool stuff. This is one of the nicest way of reasoning that I have seen. I must admit that at times I have doubts about any religion including Islam and then I will come acros something like this what you posted and the faith slowly comes back.
Thanks
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Rana
Before your question gets lost in mumin versus muslim, I would like to ask you something. Your initial question was what the difference between a muslim and non-muslim, and the people in the mosque concluded that they do good deeds and soforth in order to get closer to jannah.
I don't really get it....I am a muslim but I when I do good deeds I don't expect a reward for it......I do it because that is what Allah has taught me, that's it......I am not trying to be a good father to my kids because I want to be rewarded, I am doing it because I want my kids to feel safe and loved and hopefully they will become better than me.
Dear God, I have been good all my life and done what you taught me, now give me my reward???? Very strange concept, this idea that we should expect something...
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Dear God, I have been good all my life and done what you taught me, now give me my reward???? Very strange concept, this idea that we should expect something...
Peace Emil, All
Not so strange for the god the just the giver.
6160-165 (FM translation)
Whoever comes with a good deed, he will receive ten times its worth, and whoever comes with a sin, he will only be recompensed its like; they will not be wronged.
Say My Lord has guided me to a straight path, an upright system, the creed of Abraham the monotheist; he was not of the polytheists.
Say My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to God, Lord of the worlds.
He has no partner, and it is to this that I was commanded, and I am the first of those who have submitted.
Say Shall I seek other than God as a Lord when He is the Lord of everything? And every soul earns what is for it, and none will carry the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return and He will inform you of what you disputed in.
And He is the One who made you inheritors on the earth, and He raised some of you over others in grades, to test you with what He had given you. Your Lord is swift to punishment, and He is Forgiving, Merciful. -
Peace Emil, All
Not so strange for the god the just the giver.
6160-165 (FM translation)
Whoever comes with a good deed, he will receive ten times its worth, and whoever comes with a sin, he will only be recompensed its like; they will not be wronged.
Say My Lord has guided me to a straight path, an upright system, the creed of Abraham the monotheist; he was not of the polytheists.
Say My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to God, Lord of the worlds.
He has no partner, and it is to this that I was commanded, and I am the first of those who have submitted.
Say Shall I seek other than God as a Lord when He is the Lord of everything? And every soul earns what is for it, and none will carry the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return and He will inform you of what you disputed in.
And He is the One who made you inheritors on the earth, and He raised some of you over others in grades, to test you with what He had given you. Your Lord is swift to punishment, and He is Forgiving, Merciful.Yes, I know. But would you expect the giver to give?
Someone, the key word is expect...I do not do things because I want something in return, I do it because that is what Allah has taught me, hopefully I got it right. If He does not think my good deeds are good, then I will not be disappointed. He is the Wise, the All knower.
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Yes, I know. But would you expect the giver to give?
Someone, the key word is expect...I do not do things because I want something in return, I do it because that is what Allah has taught me, hopefully I got it right. If He does not think my good deeds are good, then I will not be disappointed. He is the Wise, the All knower.
agreed. if we just do good deeds because we expect a reward from God in thehereafter, then, for me atleast, its less meaningful than doing good because you want to live your life the way your creator wanted you to live it..to make Him happy....a bit like you would love someone and do evrything for them because you WANT to , not because you expect something from them in return.
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agreed. if we just do good deeds because we expect a reward from God in thehereafter, then, for me atleast, its less meaningful than doing good because you want to live your life the way your creator wanted you to live it..to make Him happy....a bit like you would love someone and do evrything for them because you WANT to , not because you expect something from them in return.
...because you already know that the "doing" itself will surely make you happy and you just can't not do it? )
Yes, I know. But would you expect the giver to give?
yes actually, not only that i do expect, but i know for sure that the Giver gives. Present tense being the key. And whenever i don't feel like i'm catching what He gives, then's the time for me to look for it.
Just for a moment... let go of this 'distant' feature of the so-called Hereafter heaven, and imagine that heaven has already begun... could you do that please? (or a tip from Sirius i dare you to do that!) and try to view AQ in this frame.
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I supose you would have to believe in Abrahamic God in order to go to heaven. It can't be any other God!
Would I be right to say that?
Thanks
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Well, I supose I would like to work out what the Quran says not what would think it is.
So acording to the Quran at 262 says Surely those who believe , and those who are the Jews and the Nazarines, and the Sabians. WHOEVER OF THEM believes in God and the last day and does good work, they will have recmpense from their Lord and there is no fear upon them nor will they grieve.
From looking at were it says whoever of them I have come to the conclusion that is has to be Abrahamic God not our own version of Him. I supose it says that Jesus is not son God so you can't be that Christian who believes that Jesus is his son.
This is my understanding of the verses anyone agree/disagree? I am alway open for considering new views!
Thanks
