Proof Qur'an-alone is Error
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Salaam Badr
You seem to be a very wise person and I congratulate you on speaking arabic, it must be so much easier for you to understand what is written than for example me, a convert european without any roots in the arabic part of the world.
This however, should be something that you must consider, that not all are like you. I don't know where you come from but the people on this forum come from all parts of the world. We are talking about God's word here, and His words are for everyone, not only for a specific culture or race. Many of us non-arabic-converts start our journey to islam by reading the Quran, and when we do The book makes sense, it is all there and we all understand it, it doesnt matter anymore if we are chinese, white, black or from the same continent, we all get it. When we later do more research and run into hadith we start to feel alienated and all of a sudden islam feels very distant and not for us. Have you ever contemplated over the fact that most islamaphobes around the world are islamaphobes because of only a few reasons, and those reasons can be found in hadith, not in the Quran?
This phenomena is itself proof that the hadith are not entirely correct. How can practicing God's word (if using hadith) feel wrong for so many people? I personally would like to know more about the sunnah of Mohammed, but if I use hadith as a source for this I would first be forced into following a God that I cannot feel love to, and I would also start to doubt Muhammed being a prophet of God. Even if I would go against my feelings I cannot be 100% sure that the narrations are truly the words of the prophet. And Badr, you cannot say that you can prove that hadith are 100% right, no matter how many scholars have searched the globe.
Let islam be dynamic, let islam be for everyone.
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Salaam Badr
You seem to be a very wise person and I congratulate you on speaking arabic, it must be so much easier for you to understand what is written than for example me, a convert european without any roots in the arabic part of the world.
This however, should be something that you must consider, that not all are like you. I don't know where you come from but the people on this forum come from all parts of the world. We are talking about God's word here, and His words are for everyone, not only for a specific culture or race. Many of us non-arabic-converts start our journey to islam by reading the Quran, and when we do The book makes sense, it is all there and we all understand it, it doesnt matter anymore if we are chinese, white, black or from the same continent, we all get it. When we later do more research and run into hadith we start to feel alienated and all of a sudden islam feels very distant and not for us. Have you ever contemplated over the fact that most islamaphobes around the world are islamaphobes because of only a few reasons, and those reasons can be found in hadith, not in the Quran?
This phenomena is itself proof that the hadith are not entirely correct. How can practicing God's word (if using hadith) feel wrong for so many people? I personally would like to know more about the sunnah of Mohammed, but if I use hadith as a source for this I would first be forced into following a God that I cannot feel love to, and I would also start to doubt Muhammed being a prophet of God. Even if I would go against my feelings I cannot be 100% sure that the narrations are truly the words of the prophet. And Badr, you cannot say that you can prove that hadith are 100% right, no matter how many scholars have searched the globe.
Let islam be dynamic, let islam be for everyone.
Salaam Emil,
Excellent response! Verrrrry well said indeed........ don't think there's anything 'better' anyone can add regarding this topic.
So i'm just gonna applaud and leave it at that bravo bravo bravoWe did not leave anything out of this BOOK.
We have given them a SCRIPTURE that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.
THESE are ALLAH's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which hadith other than ALLAH and His revelations do they believe?
Shall I seek other than ALLAH as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this BOOK fully detailed? Those who received the Scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
http//i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp351/hiking-artist/free%20illustrations/blind-leading-blindby-HikingArtist.jpg
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I red your whole post and still don't make sens.
Is your key proof that the prophet doesnt exist anymore so how could we follow him ?
There is one more point bro, and you did not answer this key proof?
There were scholars and people who spesialized on collecting hadith,
Did Allah authorize them to do so? Or they follow their own wish?
these people spent their lifes crossing the globe to lay down on paper the sayings of the prophets.
Did Allah authorize them to do so? Or they follow their own wish?
A whole science of methodology of collecting and sorting hadiths has been created.
Did Allah authorize them to do so? Or they follow their own wish?
It would be shameful, stupid and sad to miss all this treasures of wisdom he shared with his contemporaries.
Who said that? Allah?
Remember "Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray; Nor does he speak out of desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed, The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him," (533-6)
Who is 'Your Companion' referring to? Allah knows how to say AlNabi, or AlRasool or Mohammed, etc...
May Allah open our hearts to understand and accept the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan -
God authority
Our Lord! and raise up in them an Apostle from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise. (Quran 2130)
He it is Who raised among the inhabitants of Mecca an Apostle from among themselves, who recites to them His communications and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, although they were before certainly in clear error, (623)
- a half dozen verses that associate the book and the wisdom.
You didn't respond to the request to explain what the hikmah is in these verses
361 Quran al-hakim
358 - Dhikr al-hakim
101 - Kitaab al-hakim
312 - Kitaab al-hakim
What is the hikma being referred to in these verses? The Quran and the Prophetic sunnah?
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Salaam,
As Mushu wrote, this is more than enough to understand what Hikmat is
361 Quran al-hakim
358 - Dhikr al-hakim
101 - Kitaab al-hakim
312 - Kitaab al-hakim
What is the hikma being referred to in these verses? The Quran and the Prophetic sunnah?
Mohammed M. Khan
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Salaam Badr
You seem to be a very wise person and I congratulate you on speaking arabic, it must be so much easier for you to understand what is written than for example me, a convert european without any roots in the arabic part of the world.
This however, should be something that you must consider, that not all are like you. I don't know where you come from but the people on this forum come from all parts of the world. We are talking about God's word here, and His words are for everyone, not only for a specific culture or race. Many of us non-arabic-converts start our journey to islam by reading the Quran, and when we do The book makes sense, it is all there and we all understand it, it doesnt matter anymore if we are chinese, white, black or from the same continent, we all get it. When we later do more research and run into hadith we start to feel alienated and all of a sudden islam feels very distant and not for us. Have you ever contemplated over the fact that most islamaphobes around the world are islamaphobes because of only a few reasons, and those reasons can be found in hadith, not in the Quran?
This phenomena is itself proof that the hadith are not entirely correct. How can practicing God's word (if using hadith) feel wrong for so many people? I personally would like to know more about the sunnah of Mohammed, but if I use hadith as a source for this I would first be forced into following a God that I cannot feel love to, and I would also start to doubt Muhammed being a prophet of God. Even if I would go against my feelings I cannot be 100% sure that the narrations are truly the words of the prophet. And Badr, you cannot say that you can prove that hadith are 100% right, no matter how many scholars have searched the globe.
Let islam be dynamic, let islam be for everyone.
salaam Emil
i fully understand what you say and i'm grateful to god for speakin arabic and understand english too may god give all of us useful knowledge for ourselves and for our brothers in islam.
i am aware that quran is the word of god for all mankind and may god reinforce islam with people from all over the world.
i personally dont care about islamophobes but i can understand that if you live amongst alot of them and if you have to justify yourself all the time it can become a burden. but i like to think that islamophobes dont understand islam otherwise there wouldnt be people like yourself and also the 20000 people/year who convert in the US. alot of principles are twisted or taken out of context and what make them hate islam must have a clear and simple explanation from the quran or the sunna. if you believe in the divinity of the message it leads you directly to the attributes of its holder in the person of muhammad and if the most high trusted him and said about him
Sahih International And indeed, you are of a great moral character.
Pickthall And lo! thou art of a tremendous nature.
Yusuf Ali And thou (standest) on an exalted standard of character.
Shakir And most surely you conform (yourself) to sublime morality.
Muhammad Sarwar You have attained a high moral standard.
Mohsin Khan And verily, you (O Muhammad SAW) are on an exalted standard of character.
Arberry surely thou art upon a mighty morality.
(684)so if his morality fits the standards of god how does it not fit our?
later comes the veracity and the authenticity of the hadith, some collections are agreed on like sahih bukhari, muslim etc... and for the most skeptical a scholar from our time (who died a few years ago) called al albany spent his life to resort hadeeth and verify their authenticity and his works are excellents and his books are translated too.
and for the super skeptical the prophet said that ; if your heart feel comfortable with a saying attributed to me it could be the closest thing to me, and if your heart dont feel comfortable with a saying attributed to me it could be the farthest thing from me.also some of the things that make people misunderstand islam are related to the arabic culture, the west finds some practices strange as arabs finds some of the west's practices weird also. some are also related to time, you can't compare 500 AC to 2010 AC.
anyway, if i can help by any way don't hesitate you can ask me whatever question you have and i'll try to answer the best i can.
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You didn't respond to the request to explain what the hikmah is in these verses
Salaam,
As Mushu wrote, this is more than enough to understand what Hikmat is
Mohammed M. Khan
i dont understand why you both acting like this is the ultimate proof, wise is an adjective that comes from wisdom yeah. like you also can say Luqman the wise. it is an adjective attributed to the quran in these verses as indeed the quran is of great wisdom. but when allah says "the quran AND the wisdom" it is clearly referring to two different thing, and you both couldnt respond to my simple question wich is what is the form of this wisdom (from that mentionned verse) ?
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it is an adjective attributed to the quran in these verses as indeed the quran is of great wisdom. but when allah says "the quran AND the wisdom" it is clearly referring to two different thing,
Which is strange logic, no? That quran and hikmah are coupled so deliberately and in so many verses that you're forced to admit that hikmah is a characteristic of the quran, yet maintain that in another verse when the quran and hikmah are combined they mean two separate things.
Although it might not be the ultimate proof you were hoping for, it does expose the irregularity in your reading of the quran.
the quran AND the wisdom" it is clearly referring to two different thing,
Then "clearly" the following verse must be referring to two different things as well
Be guardians of your prayers, AND of the midmost prayer, and stand up with devotion to Allah. (223
Isn't the midmost salat part of the salawat? It looks like, according to the way you read quran, that salawat is one thing, and the midmost salat is something different, hence the AND in between them. Allah is commanding you to guard your salawat, and then commanding you to also guard a different thing called salat al wustu. Strange.
and you both couldnt respond to my simple question wich is what is the form of this wisdom (from that mentionned verse) ?
Given that you understand Arabic, you could reflect upon the grammar in the following and give us your thoughts
He hath revealed unto you of the Scripture AND the Wisdom, whereby He doth exhort you with it. 2231
Once again, we see the kitab and the hikmah coupled together. Can you see the 'bihi' at the end of the line? I'm sure you know that it denotes the singular form, yet it should have been in the plural if al kitab and al hikmah were two different things. Is it possible that Allah used the singular "with it" because the kitab and the hikmah are actually the same thing?
What these types of discussions expose more than anything is that there is nothing in the quran that says follow the quran and (prophet's) sunnah. This is the slogan of the sunnis yet cannot be found anywhere. Clinging onto the hikmah and suggesting it is the prophetic sunnah is similar to how Christians react when you point out to them that there is no explicit verse in the Bible that shows Jesus claiming to be God. They find various other verses that, with enough effort, can show that their belief is justified. So you're welcome to hold onto the belief that the hikmah is the sunnah, but there's no escaping the inconsistency in your own reading of the quran.
Anyway, I agree with Leyla that this argument has been buried. Just read the links Wakas has provided or do a search.
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salam 3alaykum brothers and sisters.
So I would ask any Qur'an-aloners out there, what could this other thing be? And why aren't you following it?Alaykum salam
Since I rejected any other book as authority besides God's book, I have discussed this issue thousands times with thousands of people. ;For almost three decades I have questioned those who say God Alone (la ilahe illa Allah), and the contradicts that by saying God is Quran and Muhammad is Hadith and Quran (God) is not enough...
Thus, I will not engage in another repetition of such a debate with you. Rather, I have a question for you
Can you please list ten teachings/articles/activities/prayers etc that you expect me to follow besides the Quran. And briefly tell me why do you think that is authentic and necessary for my eternal salvation. After you list them together with their justification, then we have something more meaningful to discuss.
Peace,
Edip -
salaam Emil
ii personally dont care about islamophobes but i can understand that if you live amongst alot of them and if you have to justify yourself all the time it can become a burden.
also some of the things that make people misunderstand islam are related to the arabic culture, the west finds some practices strange as arabs finds some of the west's practices weird also. some are also related to time, you can't compare 500 AC to 2010 AC.
Salaam Badr
Thank you for your nice response, I will only address the above I cut out from your text.
You are helping me making my point. If I were to follow sunni or shia I would have to distance myself from the culture I was born into, I would have to alienate myself from my family. The Quran is God's word, in it you cannot find barriers between cultures, in hadith you can.
I have never had to justify myself to islamaphobes since there is nothing in the Quran that alienates my culture from God. On the contrary, my culture applauds.And exactly yes, you cannot compare 500AD to 2010AD. Just like there are differences between cultures there are also differences in one culture between years. The hadith were collected around 800AD, right? Do you believe that hadith are timeless or connected to a place in time? The prophet Muhammed teachings were directed to an audience which is very different than you and me. Using one example
Back then it was probably absolutely necessary to segregate men and women in the mosque, maybe the men refused to come to the mosque if they had to sit behind a woman, maybe the women felt uneasy about men staring, who knows? Does that mean there should be gender segregation forever and ever? Even if you can prove that the hadith is authentic without doubt (meaning prophet Muhammed said those words), you still cannot prove that the hadith comes from God. You don't know if Muhammed said it because of political, religious or practical reasons. Remember, Muhammed was not only a prophet, he was also a leader. -
There were scholars and people who spesialized on collecting hadith, these people spent their lifes crossing the globe to lay down on paper the sayings of the prophets. A whole science of methodology of collecting and sorting hadiths has been created. It would be shameful, stupid and sad to miss all this treasures of wisdom he shared with his contemporaries.
Imho it wouldbe shameful, stupid and sad to rely on the authority of those scholars for our understanding of the Qur'an.
For example, Ibn Kathir's tafsir relies heavily on ahadeeth for interpretation, does that make it better? I think not; in fact I personally disagree with his interpretations in many cases.
What it boils down to is blindly believing in scholars. It always goes like this
~ The Qur'an is sooo complicated that we can't understand it without ahadeeth.
~ The science of ahadeeth is sooo complicated that it took many wise men who studied for a very long time to sort and interpret those ahadeeth for us, a mere mortal will never be able to make sense of the whole body of ahadeeth.
~ So we have to believe what those scholars tell us, and since we lack their knowledge we should never dare to have an opinion that differs from theirs.Brief example
Surat 1133Sahih International And from the evil of darkness when it settles
Pickthall From the evil of the darkness when it is intense,
Yusuf Ali From the mischief of Darkness as it overspreads;
Shakir And from the evil of the utterly dark night when it comes,
Muhammad Sarwar I seek His protection against the evil of the invading darkness,
Mohsin Khan "And from the evil of the darkening (night) as it comes with its darkness; (or the moon as it sets or goes away).
Arberry from the evil of darkness when it gathers,So is Ghaseq darkness, dark night, darkening or moon ?
And Waqab is overspread, comes, invading, goes away or gather ?the only reason of such a difference is that these 2 words does not exist in arabic language before islam and they have been explained by the prophet and the meaning still blurr, without his explanation there wouldnt be any translation.
It is normal when translating something into another language, that there are often various options of translating a word.
Now in this verse, it does not make any difference in terms of meaning whether we translate as "evil" or as "mischief".
Also, you did not provide any proof for your theory. Which hadith exactly "explains" this verse and how? What exactly was the prophet's explanation without which we supposedly would not be able to understand this word / verse?
Remember "Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray; Nor does he speak out of desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed, The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him," (533-6)
This revelation that is being mentioned in the verse is the Qur'an. Ahadeeth are not revelation.
It is very arrogant to pretend understand the quran without the prophet's or the scholars explanations.
There is nothing arrogant about this whatsoever. The Qur'an itself asks us to reflect on it (and on the world around us), it keeps repeating that it's a guide for people of understanding, for people who think and so on. It does not say anywhere that we should rely on authorities to tell us what we're supposed to think, quite the opposite; it contains a warning to not blindly rely on religious authorities.
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Imho it wouldbe shameful, stupid and sad to rely on the authority of those scholars for our understanding of the Qur'an.
For example, Ibn Kathir's tafsir relies heavily on ahadeeth for interpretation, does that make it better? I think not; in fact I personally disagree with his interpretations in many cases.
Says Leyna from free-minds.org
What it boils down to is blindly believing in scholars. It always goes like this
~ The Qur'an is sooo complicated that we can't understand it without ahadeeth.
~ The science of ahadeeth is sooo complicated that it took many wise men who studied for a very long time to sort and interpret those ahadeeth for us, a mere mortal will never be able to make sense of the whole body of ahadeeth.
~ So we have to believe what those scholars tell us, and since we lack their knowledge we should never dare to have an opinion that differs from theirs.For how long have you studied hadeeth to come with this conclusion ?
It is normal when translating something into another language, that there are often various options of translating a word.
Now in this verse, it does not make any difference in terms of meaning whether we translate as "evil" or as "mischief".
Also, you did not provide any proof for your theory. Which hadith exactly "explains" this verse and how? What exactly was the prophet's explanation without which we supposedly would not be able to understand this word / verse?
It's funny how you took the two words that are the most close, try to explain why "moon" and "darkness". If the quran is self explanatory so the arabic words must be clear and exact to not cause misunderstanding, what means exactely "Ghasiq" ?
This revelation that is being mentioned in the verse is the Qur'an. Ahadeeth are not revelation.
"Nor does he speak out of desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed," when he speaks it's revelation, it is a general sens right here, evry thing said by the prophet is revelation whether it's Quran or a "regular" saying.
The Quran says that you MUST obey him, the only traces you have from him is Hadeeth.
"Say Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers."
"And obey Allah and the Apostle, that you may be shown mercy."
"And We did not send any apostle but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission;"
"And whoever obeys Allah and the Apostle, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and a goodly company are they!"
So if you don't obey the prophet, you don't obey the quran, as simple as that.
There is nothing arrogant about this whatsoever. The Qur'an itself asks us to reflect on it (and on the world around us), it keeps repeating that it's a guide for people of understanding, for people who think and so on. It does not say anywhere that we should rely on authorities to tell us what we're supposed to think, quite the opposite; it contains a warning to not blindly rely on religious authorities.
Well.... it does
"O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Apostle, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end." (459)See how you don't know your subject.
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Salaam Badr
Thank you for your nice response, I will only address the above I cut out from your text.
You are helping me making my point. If I were to follow sunni or shia I would have to distance myself from the culture I was born into, I would have to alienate myself from my family. The Quran is God's word, in it you cannot find barriers between cultures, in hadith you can.
I have never had to justify myself to islamaphobes since there is nothing in the Quran that alienates my culture from God. On the contrary, my culture applauds.And exactly yes, you cannot compare 500AD to 2010AD. Just like there are differences between cultures there are also differences in one culture between years. The hadith were collected around 800AD, right? Do you believe that hadith are timeless or connected to a place in time? The prophet Muhammed teachings were directed to an audience which is very different than you and me. Using one example
Back then it was probably absolutely necessary to segregate men and women in the mosque, maybe the men refused to come to the mosque if they had to sit behind a woman, maybe the women felt uneasy about men staring, who knows? Does that mean there should be gender segregation forever and ever? Even if you can prove that the hadith is authentic without doubt (meaning prophet Muhammed said those words), you still cannot prove that the hadith comes from God. You don't know if Muhammed said it because of political, religious or practical reasons. Remember, Muhammed was not only a prophet, he was also a leader.Salaam, nice build
So you don't follow hadeeth because of a cultural thing ?
Many don't follow islam at all because of cultural thing, what makes you different from them ? You obey the quran and don't obey the words of the prophet while it is clearly said in the quran
"Say Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.""And obey Allah and the Apostle, that you may be shown mercy."
"And We did not send any apostle but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission;"
"And whoever obeys Allah and the Apostle, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and a goodly company are they!"
and remember that you won't follow islam without beign tested, Allah said
"Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested? We did test those before them, and Allah will certainly know those who are true from those who are false." (292-3)People have to change themselves to suit you and not the opposite, you are the one who's on the true path !
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Which is strange logic, no? That quran and hikmah are coupled so deliberately and in so many verses that you're forced to admit that hikmah is a characteristic of the quran, yet maintain that in another verse when the quran and hikmah are combined they mean two separate things.
Although it might not be the ultimate proof you were hoping for, it does expose the irregularity in your reading of the quran.
Man this is more than ireelevant because the word hikma is not an attribute of the Quran alone, if I follow your reasoning ones must stop using this word because it has been said about the quran ?
"And certainly We gave wisdom to Luqman, saying Be grateful to Allah. And whoever is grateful, he is on!y grateful for his own soul; and whoever is ungrateful, then surely Allah is Self-sufficient, Praised." (Luqman 13)
Did Luqman recieved the Quran too ? No !
Then "clearly" the following verse must be referring to two different things as well
Be guardians of your prayers, AND of the midmost prayer, and stand up with devotion to Allah. (223
Isn't the midmost salat part of the salawat? It looks like, according to the way you read quran, that salawat is one thing, and the midmost salat is something different, hence the AND in between them. Allah is commanding you to guard your salawat, and then commanding you to also guard a different thing called salat al wustu. Strange.
This would be relevant if god have said ; He has revealed to you the Scripture AND the Scripture Wisdom. So try again.
Given that you understand Arabic, you could reflect upon the grammar in the following and give us your thoughts
He hath revealed unto you of the Scripture AND the Wisdom, whereby He doth exhort you with it. 2231
Once again, we see the kitab and the hikmah coupled together. Can you see the 'bihi' at the end of the line? I'm sure you know that it denotes the singular form, yet it should have been in the plural if al kitab and al hikmah were two different things. Is it possible that Allah used the singular "with it" because the kitab and the hikmah are actually the same thing?
Or two seperate things that are indivisible.
But if you want the arabic grammatical explanation, there you go your reasoning would be true if the preposition "min" wouldnt be there. In this case it would make he revealed unto you the scriture and the wisdom and not from the scripture and the wisdom . He revealed unto you from what ? from the scripture and the wisdom, why ? to exhort you with it "bihi".
What these types of discussions expose more than anything is that there is nothing in the quran that says follow the quran and (prophet's) sunnah. This is the slogan of the sunnis yet cannot be found anywhere. Clinging onto the hikmah and suggesting it is the prophetic sunnah is similar to how Christians react when you point out to them that there is no explicit verse in the Bible that shows Jesus claiming to be God. They find various other verses that, with enough effort, can show that their belief is justified. So you're welcome to hold onto the belief that the hikmah is the sunnah, but there's no escaping the inconsistency in your own reading of the quran.
Anyway, I agree with Leyla that this argument has been buried. Just read the links Wakas has provided or do a search.
"Say Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers."
"And obey Allah and the Apostle, that you may be shown mercy."
"And We did not send any apostle but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission;"
"And whoever obeys Allah and the Apostle, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and a goodly company are they!"
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Says Leyna from free-minds.org
For how long have you studied hadeeth to come with this conclusion ?
See how you don't know your subject.
I thought I was recognizing the all-too-familiar pattern in your posts, but was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and try to have a serious exchange of thoughts with you. But sadly it is very obvious that you are not willing to answer questions and engage in an honest, respectful discussion. All you are doing is mocking, resorting to childish game playing and answering questions with new questions which, quite frankly, is very rude.
None of this is new, there are countless people like you out there, they are only interested in establishing their own sense of superiority. I will never understand why your likes keep coming here and repeating the same old same old.
Trying to get through to you or get you to actually provide sound arguments is a waste of time.
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Did Luqman recieved the Quran too ? No !
In which book is the story of Lugman and the wisdom; shall I kill my dog??
Hadith - Muslim, narrated Maymunah
One morning Allah's Messenger was silent with grief. Maymunah said Allah's Messenger, I find a change in your mood today. Allah's Messenger saidGabriel had promised me that he would meet me last night, but he did not meet me. By Allah, he never broke his promises; and Allah's Messenger spent the day in this sad (mood). Then it occurred to him that there had been a puppy under their cot. He gave an order and it was turned out. He then took some water in his hand and sprinkled it on the place. When it was evening Gabriel met him and he said to him You promised me that you would meet me the previous night. He said Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture. So the very next morning he commanded the dogs to be killed. He announced that the dog kept for the orchards should also be killed, but he spared the dog used for the protection of extensive fields (or big gardens). -
Man this is more than ireelevant because the word hikma is not an attribute of the Quran alone, if I follow your reasoning ones must stop using this word because it has been said about the quran ?
What reasoning was that, exactly? The point made was that quran and hikmah are so deliberately combined in so many verses that your separating them as two separate things in the said verse is an inconsistency in your own reading. You are dividing that which Allah has joined.
Did Luqman recieved the Quran too ? No !
So it must mean he received Prophet Muhammad's sunnah?
This would be relevant if god have said ; He has revealed to you the Scripture AND the Scripture Wisdom. So try again.
I don't think I need to try again given that the point was proven and you were unable to refute it. Are salawat and salat two separate things that need to be guarded? Why is there an AND in between them? And if you can answer that question, your inconsistent reading will be exposed. So it's better to dismiss the point altogether, just like you've done already.
Or two seperate things that are indivisible.
Indivisible eh?
He revealed unto you from what ? from the scripture and the wisdom, why ? to exhort you with it "bihi".
What is 'it'? That was my question, you've simply repeated the verse. If 'it' was the quran and prophetic sunnah, it should say 'them' not 'it'. Bihum could have been used along with the 'min'.
So although you were suggesting before that the quran and sunnah are indivisible, they still need to be separated, but then again they are referred to as 'it'. The irregularities are clear to those who actually read the quran with care as a divine book.
"Say Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers."
"And obey Allah and the Apostle, that you may be shown mercy."
"And We did not send any apostle but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission;"
"And whoever obeys Allah and the Apostle, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and a goodly company are they!"
Thank you. No "quran wa sunnat e rasoolullah"? Where is that verse?
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But sadly it is very obvious that you are not willing to answer questions and engage in an honest, respectful discussion. All you are doing is mocking, resorting to childish game playing and answering questions with new questions which, quite frankly, is very rude.
Must be all that 'hikmah' he's following. hmm
