Proof Qur'an-alone is Error
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salam 3alaykum brothers and sisters.
There is no god, except Allah. I am a slave of God-Alone, but I can't say that I follow Qur'an alone now as I had before when I first joined this forum.
It was a very slow process for me to integrate sunnah into my deen, basically because it just turned me off. You know... being told you have to wash your ears three times and nostrils three times, wipe with this hand, eat with that hand, etc. etc. Stuff that has nothing to do with righteousness as defined by the Book of Allah.
However, I started to recognize that there are two components to Islam and indeed to every religion. There is a textual component and a non-textual component. The non-textual component could be further broken down into oral tradition and non-oral (i.e. behavioral/physical) tradition. Tradition is as important as the Book, because it carries the barakah and authority. The present day Jewish religion is an example of a Book with a broken tradition, and you all can see how that has fared.
Finally, I found an ayah to prove my case, and I invite others that know Arabic to comment.
"Have you not considered how the ones who argue about God's signs actually disregard them? (40.70) Those who reject the Book and anything We have sent along with our messengers shall know * when fetters as well as chains are placed around their necks. They will be hauled along * into scalding water; then they will be scorched in the Fire."
Clearly Allah (swt) is stating that more than just a Book was sent down to the messenger.
So I would ask any Qur'an-aloners out there, what could this other thing be? And why aren't you following it?
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Ws,
About 40/70
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there's no word 'anything' there. It's literally they reject with the book and with what we sent with it our messengers.
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40/69 talks about people who reject the 'signs of Allah'. Therefore whatever is mentioned in 40/70 must be under the subset of 40/70.
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So if we talk 'the book' to be a scripture, then whatever else signs must be the signs in the horizon and in themselves (41/53). The messengers showed these signs to the people but we rejected.
The quran simply does not accept another source of authority besides itself.
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Walaikum asalam.
the verse you brought forth, its context is about prophets and what they brought i.e. other scriptures "not hadith". the prophet did not bring hadiths as we know today. traditions are fine, refer to 4911, 4913. everyone is cultured however they chose to accept or deny. traditions are traditions. they're not law binding. they do not necessarily carry barakah or authority.
If you, for example read of pre-islamic practices you will notice a similarity between those and the ones muslims practice today. Why do you think that is?
you know, God sends us "ayahs" and Quran is one of them, refer to 268, 299. Signs are there within the world 4137, 4139, 4229 etc
you don't need tradition to know God, to love God, to be connected with God.
where is the Quran Alone error? that people need to follow "something else" that has no backbone? how wise is that?
peace.
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salam 3alaykum brothers and sisters.
Clearly Allah (swt) is stating that more than just a Book was sent down to the messenger.
So I would ask any Qur'an-aloners out there, what could this other thing be? And why aren't you following it?
Salaam.
More then one Book?
Which verse does that say?Peace. handshake
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Dear readers, peace
I respectfully disagree with all the explanations put forth by the esteemed forum members to abdullah's point.
I will try to explain my understanding, and the god knows best.
THE BOOK in the quran can have different meanings depending on the context. It can be referring to the quran, or the master book containing record of everything, or the book containing a record of our deeds which is part of the master book.
What does "The Book" in 4070 refer to?
Those who deny the Book (al-kitaab), and what We have sent Our messengers (plural) with. Therefore, they will come to know. (4070)
The context is clearly the Last Day (4071-77)
"The Book" in 4070 cannot be the quran because of the contradiction it causes as per abdullah.
"what we have sent our messengers with" in the same sign cannot be the signs in the horizons and within ourselves because those signs were not sent with the messengers
"what we have sent our messengers with" cannot be only the quran because of the word "messengers" plural.
"what we have sent our messengers with" cannot be the hadeeth of the messengers because then we will need the authentic hadeeth of ALL messengers for our salvation not just of Muhammad.
Careful consideration of the quran reveals that "The Book" in 4070 can only refer to THE BOOK in which our deeds are being recorded which is a part of the master record in which everything is recorded. This understanding is solidified by the context of 4070 which is the Last Day.
Please ponder on the following signs
Who is more wicked than he who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations? These will receive their recompense from The Book (al-kitaab); so that when Our messengers come to terminate their lives, they will say Where are those whom you used to call on besides God? They said They have abandoned us! And they bore witness upon themselves that they were rejecters. (737)
Context is the Last Day just like 4070
And if We let the people taste a mercy after some harm had afflicted them, they take to scheming against Our revelations! Say God is faster in scheming; Our messengers record (yaktaboon) what you scheme. (1021)
They record where? In THE BOOK obviously
And The Book (al-kitaab) was displayed, so you see the criminals fearful of what is in it. And they say Woe to us! What is with this record that it does not leave out anything small or large but has counted it. And they found what they had done present. And your Lord does not wrong anyone. (1849)
Same context of The Last Day
No, We will record (sanuktab) what he says, and We will increase for him the retribution significantly. (1979)
We will record where? In THE BOOK obviously
So whoever does good works and he is a believer, then his efforts will not be rejected and We will record it (kaatiboon) for him. (2194)
We will record where? In THE BOOK obviously
This is Our record (kitaabana); it utters the truth about you. We have been recording everything you did. (4529)
Similarly 6919, 837, 8318 refers to the same book.
This is THE BOOK that we cannot deny per 4070.
As to "what we have sent our messengers with" in 4070, it refers to all the books that were sent with the messengers (plural), including the quran. Unfortunately the only authentic remaining out of them now is the quran.
The mistakes in this post are all mine. Only the god knows the complete truth.
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If that's your standard for proof, I'd hate to see what your standard for indirect evidence is.
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Quantum1 I think you interpretation was very good. I understood it and it made sense to me. The problem I had with following the sunnah was all the contradictions and endless debating over stupid things like why we shouldn't eat ketchup etc.... Now I feel alot happier reading the Quran without any commentaries, and discovering for myself the true meaning of what Allah is saying to us. Today I was told that I could quite possibly be possessed by Devil because I reject all hadiths and only pray 3 times a day. I keep thinking maybe I am wrong, but my heart and logical mind just groans at the thought of going back to practising that way again. Thanks for the insight.
Simone sun -
Quantum1 I think you interpretation was very good. I understood it and it made sense to me. The problem I had with following the sunnah was all the contradictions and endless debating over stupid things like why we shouldn't eat ketchup etc.... Now I feel alot happier reading the Quran without any commentaries, and discovering for myself the true meaning of what Allah is saying to us. Today I was told that I could quite possibly be possessed by Devil because I reject all hadiths and only pray 3 times a day. I keep thinking maybe I am wrong, but my heart and logical mind just groans at the thought of going back to practising that way again. Thanks for the insight.
Simone sunAww Simone, I'm sorry to hear about that judgement you've received. That is pretty sad There is a whole lot of pressure exerted on those who stray from the majority path and as you've found, some of it is quite nasty indeed.
Is there a hadith they are using to judge you as the devil? I've never heard that one before if there is.
Anyway I would look it up but I don't have time. I'm busy trying to remember which foot to use so I can go to the toilet and getting rid of my ketchup before I get deemed hell-worthy Yes, I have important matters to deal with.
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Thanks Rana that was so funny. My sister who is not a Muslim says 'you make a very good point'. LOL I am glad to know that at least someone is on the same page as me. Great minds think alike!
Simone -
.... Now I feel alot happier reading the Quran without any commentaries, and discovering for myself the true meaning of what Allah is saying to us. Today I was told that I could quite possibly be possessed by Devil because I reject all hadiths and only pray 3 times a day.
Salaam.
Whoever tells you that sahih hadith by Bukhary and all those others are to be follow, show them this
7185 Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that God has created? Perhaps their time is drawing near; so in which narrative after this one will they believe?
316 And from the people, there are those who will purchase a baseless narrative with which to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and to make it a mockery. These will have a humiliating retribution.
They will say that Bukhary uses sahih hadith. God says He has given The Best hadith - The Qur'an. Who is right?
3923 God has sent down the best narrative, a Book that is similar, dual. The skins of those who are concerned towards their Lord shiver from it, then their skins and their hearts soften up to the remembrance of God. Such is the guidance of God; He guides with it whoever He wills. And for whoever God misguides, then none can guide him.456 These are the revelations of God, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which narrative after God and His revelations do they believe?
There is a hadith that someone said he heard messenger Muhammad said that he leaves with us the Qur'an and something similar to it, right? Well, use this verse from The Creator
5234 Let them produce a narrative like this, if they are truthful.
6844 Therefore, let Me deal with those who reject this narrative; We will entice them from where they do not perceive.
One More Time
7750 So in what narrative, after it, will they believe?Is there a book besides The Qur'an that we can use?
6836 What is wrong with you, how do you judge?
6837 Or do you have a book which you study?
6838 In it, you can find what you wish?
6839 Or do you have an oath from Us, extending until the Day of Resurrection, that you can judge as you please?
6840 Ask them Who of them will make such a claim?
6841 Or do they have partners? Then let them bring their partners, if they are truthful.What would Allah SWT do to rasool Muhammad, if he did say those hadith besides The Qur'an?
Let's see, let's read6938 So I do swear by what you see.
6939 And what you do not see.
6940 This is the utterance of an honorable messenger.
6941 It is not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe.
6942 Nor the utterance of a soothsayer; rarely do you take heed.
6943 A revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
6944 And had he attributed anything falsely to Us.
6945 We would have seized him by the right.
6946 Then, We would have severed his life-line.
6947 None of you would be able to prevent it.Also, you might wanna read through this
http//www.submission.org/dozen.html
God Bless you.
Peace. -
Salam Alen
This is wonderful thank you. Shall enjoy absorbing this. Truth always wins.
Simone -
The problem I come across is that Muslims I know, one in particular, always quote 'Obey Allah and His Messenger' 'fear Allah and obey me'. It gets to the point where I just give up, Although it all makes sense in my head and everything I am reading and learning, I am just not knowledgable enough to explain my position with any authority.
Simone -
The problem I come across is that Muslims I know, one in particular, always quote 'Obey Allah and His Messenger' 'fear Allah and obey me'. It gets to the point where I just give up, Although it all makes sense in my head and everything I am reading and learning, I am just not knowledgable enough to explain my position with any authority.
SimoneI'm going to give you my straight out opinion right now - this is how I feel at the moment. It will always come back to that - whether a person believes we have to follow hadith or not and the problem with that is that I can see how they reach that conclusion. If you interpret the Quran in a certain way then that is what it tells you. It certainly doesn't tell me that, but I feel pessimistic sometimes about arguing the point because I admit that I don't know that much and also most of the people I end up having this sort of conversation with don't know that much either. You can know plenty, but if you're talking to someone who just wants to stick to the belief they have then you will go nowhere.
I guess that is what Allah meant 218 Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not revert.
Plus they have such blanket statements to make which pretty much leave me unable to say anything I don't understand abrogation, Arabic, history and so on and on and on. In a way they have a point since real argument is dependent upon an understanding of how to translate the Quran and while that is possible for people, the reality is that it's going to be a long time before any great number of Muslims are doing that for themselves and waking up to the fact that they've been duped.
In the meantime my guess is that many more will become non-practicing Muslims and even leave Islam because they don't connect (unconsciously) with the Islam that holds majority today. The still practicing Muslims will no doubt blame this on lack of faith, the influence of the west and the deserters "lack of understanding".
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I am a convert and to me it is very plain if my conscience and honest feeling and thinking took me to islam, now, after I am a Muslim, honest conscience feeling nd thinking must be suspended in order tht I can follow somebody else's conscience, feeling and thinking? Why shouldn't I then have stayed where I was and where I was told what I had to believe and what not? Itis shockingly self-serving and club-like. Sometime it feels just like tht, tht youhve to accept the club rules in order to be in. But religion is not a club. It is a lien which is based on sincerity towards oneself and the others. As a hadith says "religion is sincerity", or something of the sort. And I put a hadith, because this one, like many others, I consider valuable, not because it comes from the Prophet, which it could or could not, but because what it says has a sense, a meaning and a teaching. And that is what I uphold, that he same as I choose Islam because I found the Qur'an convincing, whay should I follow any other criteria when dealing with hadith or with whatever? It is content that decides, not purported pedigree. Is one going to buy a piece of gold on somebody's wordsor is one going to ascertain by him or herself or going to that trouble when the the piece in question has plainly all the attributes of tin or even shit.
One thing there is, even after relinquishing reliance on anything else than Qur'an is that still we may want the Qur'an to say whatever feels better for us and commit thereby a fraude against ourselves. We have to be very careful before thinking that if we do not extract the meaning we think is right the Qur'an may disappoint us. In fact we may be missing something so plain and so brilliant not even we, modern, progressive thinking people, may be too shy to even conceive or hope.
Salaam
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The problem I come across is that Muslims I know, one in particular, always quote 'Obey Allah and His Messenger' 'fear Allah and obey me'. It gets to the point where I just give up, Although it all makes sense in my head and everything I am reading and learning, I am just not knowledgable enough to explain my position with any authority.
SimoneSalaam simonejamilla,
I do recommend this link. http//www.masjidtucson.org/publications/books/qhi/qhi.html
Peace,
Khalil -
The problem I come across is that Muslims I know, one in particular, always quote 'Obey Allah and His Messenger' 'fear Allah and obey me'. It gets to the point where I just give up, Although it all makes sense in my head and everything I am reading and learning, I am just not knowledgable enough to explain my position with any authority.
SimoneSalaam.
Chapter 60, vese 4
There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah. we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone" But not when Abraham said to his father "I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah." (They prayed) "Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance to Thee is (our) Final Goal.Does this mean that there are two gods? No.
Obey God and His messenger also does not mean that there are many books to be followed.God knows Best.
Peace.
