5 salaats/day : what if i was wrong ?
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if i was wrong i would have prayed 3 (at least) more prayers than what's ordered by god, i would have did more effort and be more rewarded.
now...
what if you were wrongs (the 2 prayers with no bow down supporters)?
you would have missed three obligatory prayers per day and be more punished. if you add the possibility of the existance of ruku in the salat as a main pillar (like sunni claim) that if you dont perform, your salaat is null---> you never made a correct salaat in your life.
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Peace "Badr",
You are comitting a major fallacy here. In this way why not pray 100 times, oh no wait why not thousand times with 1000 rukus and sajdas in each because 5 salat may not be enough for God after all? THE THING IS GOD ALWAYS judges by INTENTION. HENCE if according to the best information you have inside ur brain WHATEVER amount of prayers you think is correct, He will judge you based on that. GOD, GOD forbid, is not a computer machine who like a code has to be unlocked or an emotional being who'se only impressed by certain ritualistic visual display with a specific pattern acting out. Many religous folk think of GOD as the latter and it is ridiculous. GOD Bless!
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You are comitting a major fallacy here. In this way why not pray 100 times, oh no wait why not thousand times with 1000 rukus and sajdas in each because 5 salat may not be enough for God after all?
salaam johnny
the more you pray the better it is, (the prophet and his companions use to spent the night prayin "Indeed, your Lord knows, , that you stand almost two thirds of the night or half of it or a third of it, and a group of those with you." (7320)) and the higher is your rank before god ("And in some parts of the night (also) offer the Salat (prayer) with it (i.e. recite the Quran in the prayer), as an additional prayer (Tahajjud optional prayer Nawafil) for you (O Muhammad SAW). It may be that your Lord will raise you to a station of praise and glory, i.e. the highest degree in Paradise!"(1779)).THE THING IS GOD ALWAYS judges by INTENTION. HENCE if according to the best information you have inside ur brain WHATEVER amount of prayers you think is correct, He will judge you based on that.
you need to prove, it's easy to have intention the act of worship. "And strive hard in (the way of) Allah, (such) a striving a is due to Him" (227
but if 5 prayers is the true number of obligatory prayers, you'll have no excuse, you'll knew it and refuted it.GOD, GOD forbid, is not a computer machine who like a code has to be unlocked or an emotional being who'se only impressed by certain ritualistic visual display with a specific pattern acting out. Many religous folk think of GOD as the latter and it is ridiculous. GOD Bless!
so he is asking you to make prayers in more than 30 verses for fun? we know so we cant act like we dont.
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Peace "Badr",
salaam johnny
the more you pray the better it is, (the prophet and his companions use to spent the night prayin "Indeed, your Lord knows, , that you stand almost two thirds of the night or half of it or a third of it, and a group of those with you." (7320)) and the higher is your rank before god ("And in some parts of the night (also) offer the Salat (prayer) with it (i.e. recite the Quran in the prayer), as an additional prayer (Tahajjud optional prayer Nawafil) for you (O Muhammad SAW). It may be that your Lord will raise you to a station of praise and glory, i.e. the highest degree in Paradise!"(1779)).JK- Ok but not even sunnis/shias will say that Tahajjud is obligatory. So whilst wed most probably get more reqard by praying these extra prayers you cant say wed be punished if we dont. THATS THE POINT.
you need to prove, it's easy to have intention the act of worship. "And strive hard in (the way of) Allah, (such) a striving a is due to Him" (227
but if 5 prayers is the true number of obligatory prayers, you'll have no excuse, you'll knew it and refuted it.JK- I have ZERO EVIDENCE that there are 5 salat ordered by GOD and you talk about me knowing it, so GOD would punish me for BIDA or innovation if i claimed 5 were obligatory). AT BEST i have evidence of 3 salat in the Quran and even there im not sure whether salat is physical prayer at all and whether sujjud and ruku are physical acts. Were currently working these issues out. Read Aymans and other peoples articles on the main free-minds site.
so he is asking you to make prayers in more than 30 verses for fun? we know so we cant act like we dont.
JK- Mentioning prayers/salat in x amount of verses does not mean pray x number of times. It just means the act in qs is significant or important and i never said it isnt. GOD Bless!
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Peace
I agree with Jonny_k. It's all about intention.
@ Jack. This verse "And if you obey the majority of those on earth they will lead you astray; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess" 6116
And I totally agree with Waqas. I think it's worse to give up on receiving God's guidance and follow the majority/scholars than to pray less.
At the end of the day, it's your choice. No one here is forcing you to pray less.
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Peace
I agree with Jonny_k. It's all about intention.
@ Jack. This verse "And if you obey the majority of those on earth they will lead you astray; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess" 6116
And I totally agree with Waqas. I think it's worse to give up on receiving God's guidance and follow the majority/scholars than to pray less.
At the end of the day, it's your choice. No one here is forcing you to pray less.
"Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah, and He shall requite their deceit to them, and when they stand up to prayer they stand up sluggishly; they do it only to be seen of men and do not remember Allah except a little." 4142
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Peace "Badr",
JK- The Free Minded Quran Alone Muslims including bros Edip, Ayman, Bahman, myself, Layth, Arnold Yasin Mol, etc and sis Samia, SaraY, Ayisha, etc. GOD Bless!
Who's the most informed amongst you ? what are your sources ? your scholars (those who studied your sources in depth) ?
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Peace "Badr",
Who's the most informed amongst you ? what are your sources ? your scholars (those who studied your sources in depth) ?
JK- I can't say who is the most informed or if any one individual is even more informed than another in any absolute sense. Our sources are the oldest available Quranic script and classical Arabic dictionaries and these have been studied by most us though i beleive particularly bros Ayman, Edip, Layth and perhaps sis Samia. GOD Bless!
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Peace "Badr",
JK- I can't say who is the most informed or if any one individual is even more informed than another in any absolute sense. Our sources are the oldest available Quranic script and classical Arabic dictionaries and these have been studied by most us though i beleive particularly bros Ayman, Edip, Layth and perhaps sis Samia. GOD Bless!
So you mean the quran-alone whole movement is composed by a dozen people who try to understand quran and decypher its meaning by themselves and amongst themselves according to arabic dictionnaries ?
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Peace "Badr",
So you mean the quran-alone whole movement is composed by a dozen people who try to understand quran and decypher its meaning by themselves and amongst themselves according to arabic dictionnaries ?
JK- Yes pretty much but we try our best to do this independently, eliminating bias, using reason and logic and then post it on the forum or on the main site. However we welcome opinions/understandings by non-Muslims and others as well to further eliminate bias. GOD Bless!
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Peace "Badr",
JK- Yes pretty much but we try our best to do this independently, eliminating bias, using reason and logic and then post it on the forum or on the main site. However we welcome opinions/understandings by non-Muslims and others as well to further eliminate bias. GOD Bless!
brickwall
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Peace "Badr",
brickwall
JK- So what should we do? Listen to your "alims/imams" who, besides being full of dogmatic biases, have never brought about any practical advantages to society? All we see coming from the "islamic world" implying shatiah is violence, suffering, the oppression of women, etc, etc. The system has failed badly so if you know another method let us know.
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Peace "Badr",
JK- So what should we do? Listen to your "alims/imams" who, besides being full of dogmatic biases, have never brought about any practical advantages to society? All we see coming from the "islamic world" implying shatiah is violence, suffering, the oppression of women, etc, etc. The system has failed badly so if you know another method let us know.
scholars explain the deen they brought alot of advantages to society by explaining true islam to the masses. They always been there to find solutions but they have no decisional features, they are not rich and can not afford to spend money to help people. But when it comes to the religion, the scholars are the ones to listen to, they did the researches and they can tell you what is to do and what's not. They know what are the hadeeth that you have to take for granted and which is not.
Theres no "islamic world" nowerdays, there's muslims around the world, theres no khalifaat nor a unique word that unite muslims but theres common rules that each muslim follow in order to achieve the elevation of the society in wich we live.
The system has failed because muslims abandoned their religion and followed other ways, the perfect muslim society were in the time of the prophet, that's why we have to learn from it, people were good to themselves and the community were at a certain time very prosperous and very large. We have to take advantage from every information we recieved in order to follow their steps and wish to become as righteous as them. Not by rejecting every thing they did because the so called scientific evidences.
You do have to put at least a little bit of faith in the sincerity of the people who collected the informations in the hadith, after all they are our muslim brothers, they can't be as bad as you think, they also believe in the quran like you do as the message of the Most High, they surely fear god and His wrath so they wouldnt be as liar as you pretend. You put all the people in the same bag and all the hadeeth also. It could be some mistakes, this is human (not protected by the divine intervention but God keeps an eye anyway) and the prophet said " who tries and succed have two rewards and who tries and dont succeed have one reward" doesnt sound like wisdom to you ? The collecters of the hadeeth did all what they did for the community, they were afraid that all the acts of the prophet who are a "walking Quran" and "from great morals" could be missed by the future generations.
He also said 'if your heart is comfortable with one of my hadeeths then it could be from me, anf if dont it could be the farthest thing from me', you have also a brain tha tyou can use.
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Peace "Badr",
scholars explain the deen they brought alot of advantages to society by explaining true islam to the masses. They always been there to find solutions but they have no decisional features, they are not rich and can not afford to spend money to help people. But when it comes to the religion, the scholars are the ones to listen to, they did the researches and they can tell you what is to do and what's not. They know what are the hadeeth that you have to take for granted and which is not.
JK- I and most others here as well as most people ion the world do not see ANY more advantages these scholars brought to the world than they brought disadvantages as I just mentioned. So how can we trust them in anything? Why do we trust scientists? BEACUSE WE SEE AND ALL USE THE appliances they produce on a daily basis and it works. Also in regards to laws why do most people prefer secualr over any religious law in society? Because it WORKS being derived from social sciences. None of this is the case with the "shcolars" you're talking about. No benefit other than the placebo effect which is there in all religions.
Theres no "islamic world" nowerdays, there's muslims around the world, theres no khalifaat nor a unique word that unite muslims but theres common rules that each muslim follow in order to achieve the elevation of the society in wich we live.
JK- Saudi Arabia considers itself Khalifat. Remember "malik" in Arabic is not a "king" in the ordinary sense which hadith Muslims consider haraam. In fact there is a hadith that connects khilafah with "malkiyat". David and Solomon were "maliks" as well as "imams" and "khulafah" by dewfintion. I know the Saudu king has been accused of misninterpretaion but there are hell lot of hadith scholars backing it up and they all claim to do "baya" in favor of him. SO in effect al you can do is comit the "no true Scotsman fallacy" by saying that those are not true Muslims and they say you arn'rt and in the effect nobody then is.
The system has failed because muslims abandoned their religion and followed other ways, the perfect muslim society were in the time of the prophet, that's why we have to learn from it, people were good to themselves and the community were at a certain time very prosperous and very large. We have to take advantage from every information we recieved in order to follow their steps and wish to become as righteous as them. Not by rejecting every thing they did because the so called scientific evidences.
JK- That's what we're trying to do i.e. get back to the original Islam which we think is/was based on the Quran Alone.
You do have to put at least a little bit of faith in the sincerity of the people who collected the informations in the hadith, after all they are our muslim brothers,
JK- No i don't and neither are they my brothers. They are either delusional or deliberately fraudulent.
they can't be as bad as you think, they also believe in the quran like you do as the message of the Most High, they surely fear god and His wrath so they wouldnt be as liar as you pretend.
JK- Just giving lip srvice to beleiving in the Quran means nothing. Besides it alsdo depends on what concept of a Quran they believe in which I see as incompatible with ours. Othe than that Christians and Jews also fear God so that point is mute anyways.
You put all the people in the same bag and all the hadeeth also. It could be some mistakes, this is human (not protected by the divine intervention but God keeps an eye anyway) and the prophet said " who tries and succed have two rewards and who tries and dont succeed have one reward" doesnt sound like wisdom to you ?
JK- So you admit hadith is not divinely protected. CAN YOU name one logical reason why GOD would not protect the supposedly unique method of how to perform salat, found in hadith which He made obligatory? Does this make any sense? Why not reveal a sura as-salat and start like "O Prophet they ask you cocnerning Salat. Tell them 2 rakats in the morning with this many sujood and rukoos etc etc". Wldve been one middle sized sura more.
The collecters of the hadeeth did all what they did for the community, they were afraid that all the acts of the prophet who are a "walking Quran" and "from great morals" could be missed by the future generations.
JK- Why does GOD need to leave this upto the people and not protect these acts in writing as He did with the Quran? HAve you ever even asked yourself this question?
He also said 'if your heart is comfortable with one of my hadeeths then it could be from me, anf if dont it could be the farthest thing from me', you have also a brain tha tyou can use.
JK- So GOD reveals a perfectly preserved book but leaves some obligatory parts upto the FEELINGS of humans which should filter out the supposed true from the false hadith? I ask you "Badr" to please think hard about this. GOD Bless!
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JK- So you admit hadith is not divinely protected. CAN YOU name one logical reason why GOD would not protect the supposedly unique method of how to perform salat, found in hadith which He made obligatory? Does this make any sense? Why not reveal a sura as-salat and start like "O Prophet they ask you cocnerning Salat. Tell them 2 rakats in the morning with this many sujood and rukoos etc etc". Wldve been one middle sized sura more.
JK- Why does GOD need to leave this upto the people and not protect these acts in writing as He did with the Quran? HAve you ever even asked yourself this question?
JK- So GOD reveals a perfectly preserved book but leaves some obligatory parts upto the FEELINGS of humans which should filter out the supposed true from the false hadith? I ask you "Badr" to please think hard about this. GOD Bless!
Because there wouldnt be no test anymore and every body will go to janna and to the highest grades of the janna it would be so obvious that your faith wouldnt be tested. This is the Hikma of god.
