Is God objectifying women?
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Peace be upon you,
Please read the verse I've included below (especially the underlined portion) and tell me if you think God is objectifying women.
Adorned for the people are the worldly pleasures, such as the women, having children, piles upon piles of gold and silver, trained horses, livestock, and crops. These are the materials of this world. A far better abode is reserved at GOD.
So, women = materials of this world which are pushing men away from God and therefore towards hell?
Also, women = materials similar to gold, silver, horses and crops?
Any comments welcome.
Thank you,
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Who's 'objectifying' women here?
Did you read the verse?
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I just twisted your question according to the verse. I guess we all see what we want to see.
I believe I did a pretty good job explaining my question. I am not sure what you did by twisting? I am not blaming ANYTHING ON GOD. This was a question I was posed by a non Muslim.
Did you read my post?
Yeah, did you read it yourself? roll
I guess I'll just wait for others to respond wink
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Peace,
I believe I did a pretty good job explaining my question. I am not sure what you did by twisting? I am not blaming ANYTHING ON GOD. This was a question I was posed by a non Muslim.
Zenje was trying to show you that anything can be objectified, not just women...anything can be an object that can lead you astray.
Just a question, which objects in life are commonly known to lead, er, let's say, men astray from the righteous principles?
Money? Children? Power? Lust for life/women?? wink
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Peace be upon you savage_carrot,
Thanks for that reply.
Just a question, which objects in life are commonly known to lead, er, let's say, men astray from the righteous principles?
Money? Children? Power? Lust for life/women??
You are right, power, children, money and women are all things men lust over.
But my question was why were women included among material things on this earthly life? (Not mine actually a person asked me this who is studying the Koran).
Thank you,
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Peace *
The verse reads 'adorned for people are the worldly pleasures'...this to me means that all this lust for possession etc is a worldy pleasure...and also the 'objects' mentioned are the commonest things that lead most astray from the righteous path, thru ages...if you've seen troy, and godfather/scarface etc etc...God didn't have to mention every single thing that would lead you astray did He? He just mentioned the most common ones and using our perception, we see what He is saying to us...
I hope i helped you somewhat..
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Peace Anonymous,
Check this out
QXP 314 Beautiful for mankind is love of the joys that come from women and children, and heaps of gold and silver, and branded horses, and cattle and well-tilled land. That is comfort of the life of the world. Allah! With Him is a more excellent abode.A quick cross-reference reveled the following
...These are the enjoyment of the world
...This is the provision of the life of this world
...Such are the possessions of this world's life
...That is comfort of the life of the world.
...These things are attractive.Besides Yusuf Ali's translation (which is usually the worst in my opinion), I see no problem with understanding that women can be equated with the terms comfort, enjoyment, provision, or attractive, as men can be seen in the eyes of women.
I would look into the Arabic word that is translated as "materials". Perhaps one of our humble scholars will save you the legwork.
Peace,
Tay -
peace, Tay
Peace Anonymous,
Check this out
QXP 314 Beautiful for mankind is love of the joys that come from women and children, and heaps of gold and silver, and branded horses, and cattle and well-tilled land. That is comfort of the life of the world. Allah! With Him is a more excellent abode.A quick cross-reference reveled the following
...These are the enjoyment of the world
...This is the provision of the life of this world
...Such are the possessions of this world's life
...That is comfort of the life of the world.
...These things are attractive.Besides Yusuf Ali's translation (which is usually the worst in my opinion), I see no problem with understanding that women can be equated with the terms comfort, enjoyment, provision, or attractive, as men can be seen in the eyes of women.
I would look into the Arabic word that is translated as "materials". Perhaps one of our humble scholars will save you the legwork.
Peace,
Taydid you like the Parwez translation as much as Shabbir Ahmed's? I'm only up to midway through chapter 2 in the Parwez translation and as much as I enjoy Parwez's translation so far, I find Shabbir Ahmed for some reason to be much more enjoyable and contain better, more revolutionary thoughts/interpretations, the only problem I find with TulueIslam is that it still somewhat gives the Sunnah of the Sunnis a bit of authority especially when it comes to the "5 pillars", other then that I think TulueIslam is one of the best Islamic sites on the net just for the fact they contain the great works of Parwez and many other great books/articles from some of the best Islamic writers in the 20th century, I liked Parwez's views on destiny myself, Sara has the right to complain about that stupid doctrine http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/kt/kt_18.htm
peace
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Peace Idris,
For my personal growth, I am addicted to QXP. I find it to be the most articulate. Additionally, anything I've ever questioned I've asked him (Dr. Ahmed) at bazm Forum and his answers always seem to be right on point. I have tremendous respect for him.
At the same time, I enjoy cross-referenceing verses between Parwez and Shabbir. It's interesting to see the subtle differences. Parwez' style is clearly different, and it''s nice to get a different perspective on ayat. Overall, I prefer QXP, but I admit that I have enjoyed some Parwez ayat over QXP.
And as specific study tool, I read an ayah in QXP, then cross-reference the "multi-lingual Qur'an" at http//www.al-islam.org/quran/ to get the literal translations from Ali, Shakir, Pickthall, then cross-reference QT and Asad's translation , though the online version is choppy and incomplete.
I haven't ventured deep enough into TolueIslam to agree with you. I read a couple of articles from Parwez a while back but didn't encounter and Sunni references. I'm actually still trying to get back to Iqbal's "Reconstruction of Religious Thought". That guy doesn't waste any words so it's a slow read for me, but he seems brilliant.
And thanks for the link to the article. Yes, Sara has every right to complain. She's the future of our deen.
Peace,
Tay -
Tay,
Tay wroteCheck this out
QXP 314 Beautiful for mankind is love of the joys that come from women and children, and heaps of gold and silver, and branded horses, and cattle and well-tilled land. That is comfort of the life of the world. Allah! With Him is a more excellent abode.Since the Qxp has done a beautiful job of translating it from materials to comfort I was just curious as to why would this case be gender specific as if it was meant for the men.It could have come down as spouse instead of women because mind you women are as lustful as men in all the other aspects like Gold,children,etc.
cheers,
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Peace *
The verse reads 'adorned for people are the worldly pleasures'...this to me means that all this lust for possession etc is a worldy pleasure...and also the 'objects' mentioned are the commonest things that lead most astray from the righteous path, thru ages...if you've seen troy, and godfather/scarface etc etc...God didn't have to mention every single thing that would lead you astray did He? He just mentioned the most common ones and using our perception, we see what He is saying to us...
I hope i helped you somewhat..
Peace
Why didn't God say 'spouses'? Why does this verse seem only to be addressed to men?
Roshan
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Roshan,
Do you ever read the posts here before you made such an enquiry??
Tay wroteCheck this out
QXP 314 Beautiful for mankind is love of the joys that come from women and children, and heaps of gold and silver, and branded horses, and cattle and well-tilled land. That is comfort of the life of the world. Allah! With Him is a more excellent abode.Yankee wrote
Since the Qxp has done a beautiful job of translating it from materials to comfort I was just curious as to why would this case be gender specific as if it was meant for the men.It could have come down as spouse instead of women because mind you women are as lustful as men in all the other aspects like Gold,children,etc.Why didn't God say 'spouses'? Why does this verse seem only to be addressed to men?
Roshan
cheers.
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Why didn't God say 'spouses'? Why does this verse seem only to be addressed to men?
Salam All,
The verse is clearly not addressing males only, it is addressing "all people".
It is telling "all people" about inherent nature of mankind, giving a list of "wordly" "things" that humans are attracted to and which they should be carefull about.
The list includes "gold, silver and horses".. fine
The list also includes "Al-nissa'" and "al-baneen".... now if the first is "women" you have a problem. If the second is "children" you have a problem too.Let's first agree that that is indeed what the verse is about.
Peace,
Mohamed~ -
Peace be upon you,
Yankee Doodle and Roshan, my point exactly. Why wasn't the word "spouses" used? I checked out all seven different transaltions of the Koran I can find and they all said "women". It seems as if "women" are driving the righteous away from God! Besides, it feels like the entire Book is addressed to the men.
Elena, I am doing the exact same project, which is finding out the percentage of times the Koran addresses the men. I have only two more chapters of the Koran to go, which God Willing I'll get done by next week. Once compiled, I'll let you know.
Thanks all,
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Yankee Doodle and Roshan, my point exactly. Why wasn't the word "spouses" used? I checked out all seven different transaltions of the Koran I can find and they all said "women". It seems as if "women" are driving the righteous away from God! Besides, it feels like the entire Book is addressed to the men.
Since the verse is addressing "people" and not "men", one should conclude that
"women" are driving the righteous men AND the righteous women, away from God!
Mohamed~
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"women" are driving the righteous men AND the righteous women, away from God!
How so?