the 5 pilars and what they teach
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Joseph,
correct me if i am wrong but it seems that you are taking the '5 pillars of islam' invented by men and you are trying to rationalize them within the context/framework of the Quran asking what is wrong with having 5 pillars as they don't contradict the quran and isn't it a way of applying core quranic principles?
by the way, you could make head cover/burka as a pillar of islam as certainly wearing a head cover doesn't contradict the quran and if anything is a way of applying quranic principles of morality/modesty and such. might as well make it 6 pillars of islam for a woman. if a woman wants to convert to islam, in addition to 5 pillars she will be told it is obligatory upon her to wear a 'hijab'.
you can take anything from growing a beard to splitting hair and state that you are not doing anything contradictory or wrong. but just because something is not wrong, does it make it right and these practices that are not wrong, do they define Islam? or a muslim? are they pillars or fundamentals of Islam?
there's nothing wrong with the shahada. it is a statement of fact. there's nothing wrong with praying 5 times a day, fasting, charity, hajj, growing a beard, hijab, etc. but if i don't say the shahada, say salat, fast, give zaka, or do hajj - what does that make me? not a muslim? or a 'practicing' muslim?
here's where i have problems with
- stating that islam is built on these pillars.
- that the 5 pillars are obligatory on every muslim adult - the way that they have been established by people.
i don't see anything wrong in stating the fact that muhammad is a messenger, nothing wrong in asking God to have mercy and blessing prophet muhammad and his family although doesn't make much sense to me but again nothing wrong. you are not contradicting the quran but is it right to state that the salat as established and practiced is one of the fundamentals of islam and is obligatory on every muslim adult?
by the way, you can say salat 10 times a day and it won't contradict the quran and saying it 10 times a day will really teach you discipline and consistency alright! would it not? so why don't you? what's wrong with that? get my point, know where i am going with this.
does the quran lay down these pillars as fundamentals of islam? no, the koran does not. but people have and many a books have been written about salat, fasting, zakat extolling the virtues, benefits and such. people have taken somethings from the Koran and ran with it making it out to be something else. this is where i have issues with.
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Joseph,
correct me if i am wrong but it seems that you are taking the '5 pillars of islam' invented by men and you are trying to rationalize them within the context/framework of the Quran asking what is wrong with having 5 pillars as they don't contradict the quran and isn't it a way of applying core quranic principles?
by the way, you could make head cover/burka as a pillar of islam as certainly wearing a head cover doesn't contradict the quran and if anything is a way of applying quranic principles of morality/modesty and such. might as well make it 6 pillars of islam for a woman. if a woman wants to convert to islam, in addition to 5 pillars she will be told it is obligatory upon her to wear a 'hijab'.
you can take anything from growing a beard to splitting hair and state that you are not doing anything contradictory or wrong. but just because something is not wrong, does it make it right and these practices that are not wrong, do they define Islam? or a muslim? are they pillars or fundamentals of Islam?
there's nothing wrong with the shahada. it is a statement of fact. there's nothing wrong with praying 5 times a day, fasting, charity, hajj, growing a beard, hijab, etc. but if i don't say the shahada, say salat, fast, give zaka, or do hajj - what does that make me? not a muslim? or a 'practicing' muslim?
here's where i have problems with
- stating that islam is built on these pillars.
- that the 5 pillars are obligatory on every muslim adult - the way that they have been established by people.
i don't see anything wrong in stating the fact that muhammad is a messenger, nothing wrong in asking God to have mercy and blessing prophet muhammad and his family although doesn't make much sense to me but again nothing wrong. you are not contradicting the quran but is it right to state that the salat as established and practiced is one of the fundamentals of islam and is obligatory on every muslim adult?
by the way, you can say salat 10 times a day and it won't contradict the quran and saying it 10 times a day will really teach you discipline and consistency alright! would it not? so why don't you? what's wrong with that? get my point, know where i am going with this.
does the quran lay down these pillars as fundamentals of islam? no, the koran does not. but people have and many a books have been written about salat, fasting, zakat extolling the virtues, benefits and such. people have taken somethings from the Koran and ran with it making it out to be something else. this is where i have issues with.
ok i was done with this, but i guess you too had to jump on the bandwagon and assume i was trying to rationalize something.
maybe i didn't make my self clear enough.
i saw some core principles within what i have learned are the institutionalized practices of the secularized/ ritualized version of Islam, and i was struggling with how can i fulfil my "duties" in islam and still reconcile it with work. therefore i wanted to find core principles that maybe i could somehow learn in other ways instead of being enslaved to the 5 pillars. i may not have started out the thread the way someone wants to hear, but this was my aim. nothing more nothing less. yes sometimes i cant figure out the best way to word or introduce a subject, but eventually i was guided by fellow truth seekers and the matter is solved.
there, satisfied?
thanks for beating a dead horse.
lets just drop the subject already, i was guided to the correct answer and i dont need anyone beating me over the head with imagined "rationalization"
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lets just drop the subject already, i was guided to the correct answer and i dont need anyone beating me over the head with imagined "rationalization"
nope, not beating you to the ground, joseph. while i was posting mine, you already had and i didn't read it till afterwards.
you are not alone as many struggle with the same things. glad that you did bring this subject.
abdun nur - thanks for the link.
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On the authority of Umar also, may Allah be pleased with him, who said
One day, while we were sitting with the Messenger of Allah r, there
appeared before us a man dressed in pure white clothes and his hair was jet
black. There were no signs of travel on him, yet none of us knew him. He
sat in front of the Messenger r, he rested his knees against his knees, and
placed his palms on his thighs, and said, ?O Muhammad, inform me about
Islam.? The Messenger of Allah r said, ?Islam is that you testify that there
is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and you
establish prayer, pay Zakat, observe the fasting of Ramadan, and perform
pilgrimage to the house if you are able.? He (the questioner) said, ?You
have told the truth.? It amazed us that he would ask the question and then
confirm the answer. He (the questioner) said, ?Inform me about Iman.? He
(the Prophet) replied, ?That you affirm your faith in Allah, His Angels, His
Books, His Apostles, the Last Day, and you affirm your faith in Divine
Destiny, the good of it and the evil of it.? He (the questioner) said, ?You
have told the truth.? He (the questioner) then said, ?Inform me about
Ihsan.? He (the Prophet) said, ?That you worship Allah as though you see
Him, though if you do not see Him, verily He sees you.? He (the
questioner) then said, ?Inform me about the Hour.? He (the Prophet)
remarked, ?The one questioned knows no more than the questioner.? He
(the questioner) said, ?Tell me of its signs.? He (the Prophet) said, ?That the
slave-girl will give birth to her master, and that you will see barefooted,
destitute, goal-herdsmen vying with one another in the construction of tall
buildings.? Then he (the questioner) left, and I stayed with him (the
Prophet) for a while. He then said to me, ?O Umar, do you know who this
questioner was?? I replied, ?Allah and His Messenger know best.? He (the
Prophet) remarked, ?He was Gabriel, he came to you to teach you your
religion.?Did Moses perform Haj? So how can it be made obligatory?
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such a waste
i feel bad for the people who think they get their "ticket to heaven" after going to the hajjAnd when they come across those who believe, they say We believe!And when they are alone with each other they say Why do you inform them of what God has said to us? Then they would use it in argument against us at your Lord. Do you not comprehend? 276
Have you not noted him who debated with Abraham regarding his Lord, while God had given him a kingship? Abraham said My Lord is the One who gives life and death, he said I bring life and death. Abraham said God brings the sun from the east, so you bring it from the west. The one who rejected was baffled! And God does not guide the wicked people. 2258
If they debate with you, then say I have submitted myself to God, as well as those who follow me.... 320
Whoever debates with you in this after the knowledge has come to you, then say Let us call our children and your children.. 361
Many other verses always mean the same, the verb HAJJ = Debate, therefore the HAJJ AKBAR is the great debate, like UNITED NATIONS now.
HAJJ is supposed to be the whole world leaders meet to debate. it used to be somewhere before the colonisation, maybe Egypt, or north Africa, or maybe it was always in the states, Allah knows where it used to be, when the world was united. -
And when they come across those who believe, they say We believe!And when they are alone with each other they say Why do you inform them of what God has said to us? Then they would use it in argument against us at your Lord. Do you not comprehend? 276
Have you not noted him who debated with Abraham regarding his Lord, while God had given him a kingship? Abraham said My Lord is the One who gives life and death, he said I bring life and death. Abraham said God brings the sun from the east, so you bring it from the west. The one who rejected was baffled! And God does not guide the wicked people. 2258
If they debate with you, then say I have submitted myself to God, as well as those who follow me.... 320
Whoever debates with you in this after the knowledge has come to you, then say Let us call our children and your children.. 361
Many other verses always mean the same, the verb HAJJ = Debate, therefore the HAJJ AKBAR is the great debate, like UNITED NATIONS now.
HAJJ is supposed to be the whole world leaders meet to debate. it used to be somewhere before the colonisation, maybe Egypt, or north Africa, or maybe it was always in the states, Allah knows where it used to be, when the world was united.The chapter in the Koran called Haj says otherwise. It makes it clear that there is a ritual and rite and its a from of worship. However all societies have that. Haj to Mecca is a way to perform this but its not something you can amke obligatory.