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peace mmkhan,
I have not heard of a separating and relating "waw" before, and it is not differentiated in corpus.quran.com for example. Can you give us a reference for this? (ideally several)
Also, you said "hence it is referring to previously said "sabeeli Allah" ." but this object is masculine thus cannot be the object of reference for "ha" (feminine), and it can only be "salat" (feminine).
Please clarify.
Thanks.
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Salaam brother Wakas,
I have not heard of a separating and relating "waw" before, and it is not differentiated in corpus.quran.com for example. Can you give us a reference for this? (ideally several)
I know the problem is not only with corpus.quran.com but almost all the online text of AlQuraan use simple 'waw' in both the places. You may need to follow The Book to see the difference in text.
For instance
23
You can see that 'waw' is separating all the three things.
219
Here two 'waw' are in relation with all the words used with it, so the text is not a normal 'waw', and also a normal 'waw' is used in 219.
Another example
4103
It means we have to remember Allah in all the three positions mentioned, not one by one, but while standing and in continuation of remembrance going to sit and then lying down and getting up then again sitting......
If it has to be done in any one position at a time, it will be used a normal or separating 'waw' as in 56
56
You can note that the only blue highlighted 'waw' is with tashdeed in 56 so it is in relation to the previous sentence as
Hope this may help you inshaAllah.
Also, you said "hence it is referring to previously said "sabeeli Allah" ." but this object is masculine thus cannot be the object of reference for "ha" (feminine), and it can only be "salat" (feminine).
"Sabeel" is used both masculine and feminine. The 'waw' with tashdeed shows its relation with the previously said object. It cannot refer to something which is said two aayaats back until 'waw' with tashdeed continues till this object.
May Allah increase us all in knowledge and guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
salam mmkhan & all,
mmkhan, you beat me to it! thanks. hail
anyway, here is my personal understanding of Luqman (1-7) and see the connection with Baqarah (1-7)
Feel. Those are signs of the wise/sensible message. It is a guidance and a ?rahmah?/mercy for those people who act/behave appropriately. They are those people who make/establish the connection while purifying the heart, and in the end they are certain. These people are on guidance from their Lord, and these people are the successful ones.
But some people trade amusing ?hadith?/narratives to mislead people without knowledge from the godly path. While he takes it mockingly, these people, for them is a chastisement of humiliation. When read to him Our signs, he turns away arrogantly as if he didn?t hear them, as if he is deaf, so you (s) announce to him about a chastisement of pain.
peace
mohammed noh -
peace mmkhan,
Thanks for those examples, which I will check later, but I meant references from some sort of Arabic grammar sources or article differentiating such "waw".
Also, you say "sabeel" can also be feminine, but where in AQ? And even if you do find such a case, it is not feminine in this ayat/sign so I personally cannot see how your interpretation works. I would have to see more evidence before deciding.
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Salaam Wakas,
Thanks for those examples, which I will check later, but I meant references from some sort of Arabic grammar sources or article differentiating such "waw".
You are welcome brother. I don't think you can find it in any article or Arabic grammar about two different 'waw'. But it is Allah who teaches from His Book. You can note the difference in writing as mentioned above, if there is any difference in text means there is a different meaning, right? May Allah guide us.
Also, you say "sabeel" can also be feminine, but where in AQ? And even if you do find such a case, it is not feminine in this ayat/sign so I personally cannot see how your interpretation works. I would have to see more evidence before deciding.
InshaAllah brother, I will try to find out feminine usage of the word "sabeel" from AlQuraan and will post it here.
May Allah guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam Wakas and all,
Alhamdulillahi rabbil 'aalameen.
Thank you for your patience brother Wakas. Here are some aayaats with the word "sabeel Allah" in feminine form.
399
745
1119
169
About "Salaat", we can discuss 558 instead of 316
558
Hope this makes clear inshaAllah.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
peace mmkhan,
You seem to be right that "sabeel Allah" can be referred to as a feminine. There is a group of words/terms that can be masculine but are referred to as feminine, but I cant recall the criteria at the moment, but I have seen this before in AQ. I didn't realise thats what you meant.
It would be interesting to note if "sabeel Allah" is referred to using "huzuwan" elsewhere (afaik there isn't) or perhaps similar words. Also, I wonder if there is anything in the Arabic that would differentiate what the feminine "ha" refers to.Also, at the moment I am unconvinced about the "waw" distinction until I see more evidence.
Thus, at the moment it seems "ha" could refer to either.
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Salaam Wakas,
Also, at the moment I am unconvinced about the "waw" distinction until I see more evidence.
Not a problem, it is very clear to me even in the aayat under discussion i.e., 316
Have you seen the aayaats that I gave you in my previous message bro? Please take a look, it may help you understand the two "waws", inshaAllah.
If I get more references for this, inshaAllah I will post them also.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam brother,
mmkhan, I did try to look them up but my Quran did not have those markings. I have another physical copy I will check.
You don't have those marking in your printed copy of AlQuraan ???
It might have done on purpose by printers and publishers or what, to spread AlQuraan in a way that they want? I don't understand why they removed that markings on waw from the online AlQuraans. May Allah help us.
Mohammed M. Khan
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Part 1
From those definitions Salaat seems to have a lot to do with being attached or following. Perhaps being mindful/aware and in the present moment also, rather than being distracted?
The mention of the animal's rump reminds me of the base/muladhara chakra (in Hindu tradition) and the lower dantian (in ancient Daoist/Chinese tradition). They are associated with the storage of chi or the beginning of the route of kundalini flow.
I find the underlined words somewhat linked to each other so I can't really pick an odd one out.mmkhan's mentioning of the word "aqim" also reminds me of kundalini flow ... but that might just be my bias.
Part 2
We need to know what Salat is.
Part 3
If "it" is referring to salat, then salat is a recitation or narration.
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Salaam Wakas,
peace mmkhan, they were present in the other copy. You can also see them online here for example.
Alhamdulillah, Allah is great.
Thank you for the link brother, and those are scanned images of the same AlQuraan, not typed one.
May Allah guide us all to His path and increase us in knowledge. pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
peace mmkhan,
I did an investigation into "sabeeli Allahi" with a phonetic search to see if it used elsewhere as you suggest in 316, i.e. "they take it (sabeeli Allahi) as X" with X being any word and I did not find any other example.
There is also maybe another way to investigate this and that is to see if "and takes it..." is used elsewhere with a non-real-world object (in this case "sabeeli Allahi". From my preliminary check it only referred to real-world objects, but I did not check it thoroughly. Perhaps the only contrary example was 7146.I hope that makes sense.
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Salaam Wakas,
peace mmkhan,
I did an investigation into "sabeeli Allahi" with a phonetic search to see if it used elsewhere as you suggest in 316, i.e. "they take it (sabeeli Allahi) as X" with X being any word and I did not find any other example.
There is also maybe another way to investigate this and that is to see if "and takes it..." is used elsewhere with a non-real-world object (in this case "sabeeli Allahi". From my preliminary check it only referred to real-world objects, but I did not check it thoroughly. Perhaps the only contrary example was 7146.I hope that makes sense.
Yes, I think the only contrary example is 7146.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. khan -
peace all,
Thanks for the replies. Here is my input
Then generations/successors came after them who neglected/wasted the salat, and followed desires. They will find their consequences.
In The Quran, following of desires is always contrasted to following God's guidance, i.e. revelation. This is obvious considering desires come from oneself, whereas revelation comes from God. The opposite of neglect is to be mindful and the opposite of waste is to save/utilise well, so we can reason that salat is likely to involve be mindful and utilise God's guidance.
I am of the view the "it" more likely refers to "salat" than to "sabeel Allah" and here is why
ALM
These are the signs of the book of wisdom.
A guide and a mercy for the good doers.
Those who uphold the salat, and give forth zakat/betterment and regarding the Hereafter they are certain.
These are on a guidance from their Lord, and they are the successful ones.
And from the people, there are those who exchange/purchase an idle narration to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and take it as mockery/entertainment. These will have a humiliating retribution.
And when Our revelations are recited to him, he turns away arrogantly as if he did not hear them, as if there is a deafness in his ears. So announce to him a painful retribution.When you "exchange/purchase" something, you give something and get something back. So what is being exchanged above? Well, it is clear that what is being exchanged/purchased is an "idle/baseless narration" which misleads. The opposite of that would be a "sound/truthful narration which guides" which just so happens to be the context of the verses. A person exchanges this for an idle/baseless narration, and takes "it" as mockery/entertainment. In 316 is "it" "sabeel Allah" or referring to "salat"? The next verse 317 may give us a clue. Ponder.
Part 4
A pivotal verse. What information about salat can we extract from 1187?
They said "O Shu'ayb, does your salat order you that we leave what our fathers serve, or that we leave doing what we will with our money? Surely you are the clement, the sound-minded!"
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Peace
In 316 is "it" "sabeel Allah" or referring to "salat"? The next verse 317 may give us a clue. Ponder.
317 suggests that they take the recitation of the verses as mockery/entertainment.
Part 4
A pivotal verse. What information about salat can we extract from 1187?
They said "O Shu'ayb, does your salat order you that we leave what our fathers serve, or that we leave doing what we will with our money? Surely you are the clement, the sound-minded!"
It suggests that Salat is concerned with some form of guidance or revelation or narration.
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You said
So, I would like you to think about what information would be required in The Quran for us to carry out salat(s) during the day. This is a deceptively simple question but it should get you to think about the basic requirements of information that we would need to actually carry out what The Quran tells us to do.
Deceptively simple question? Just like how long is a piece of string?
The basic required information you have summaries in a lovely list... http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/quran_on_salat.htm
To break it down more besides specific times (ones that stand out to me )involve
- one can seek help through the salat
- salat can involve speaking and one should know what one is saying (i.e. have a clear head, not intoxicated).
- One should be clean before coming near the salat.
- uphold the salat for the remembrance/mentioning of God
And
17110 (Asad) Say "Invoke God, or invoke the Most Gracious by whichever name you invoke Him, His are all the attributes of perfection. And be not tooloud in thy prayer nor speak it in too low a voice, but follow a way in-between
salat is a form of remembering God, we seek help/guidance from God, we should be conscious/aware of what is said, clean and say our salat in a moderate tone.
So you need to know how to be clean, how to remember god, what you plan on saying and saying it in a moderate tone.
Part 3
People uphold salat, people make mocker out of it, people neglect salat and follow desire.
Part 4
They said "O Shu'ayb, does your salat order you that we leave what our fathers serve, or that we leave doing what we will with our money? Surely you are the clement, the sound-minded!"
We know we should cease what our fathers or forefathers did/do if it goes against the deen( 2170? 923?). Also, we know our possessions /wealth are a blessing upon us. We should spend rightfully and give to the ones who need, the one who asks, family etc (2195, 2215, 2262, 9310). What?s the pivotal concept?
Similarity to shuaybs people salih?s people were not prepared to give up what their forefathers worshipped
1162 (Asad) They answered "O Salih! Great hopes did we place in thee ere this! Wouldst thou forbid us to worship what ourforefathers were wont to worship? Because , behold, we are in grave doubt, amounting to suspicion, about thy call to us!
possibly salat would stop them from serving what their fathers served if they are on the true path because salat is for dhikr allah..
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salam wakas & all,
my personal understanding of 1187 is as follows
They said, ?Shu?ayb, does your salat/relationship command you to make us avoid what our fathers serve, or to make us avoid doing what we will with our possessions? Surely you are the gentle of the right-minded!?
'salat'/relationship here refers specifically to the relationship with God. some people take it to mean 'communion' with God.
the notes by SarahY should provide some pointers, and i quote"
To break it down more besides specific times (ones that stand out to me )involve
- one can seek help through the salat
- salat can involve speaking and one should know what one is saying (i.e. have a clear head, not intoxicated).
- One should be clean before coming near the salat.
- uphold the salat for the remembrance/mentioning of God
so in our 'salat'/relationship or 'communion' with God, we must communicate, especially by speech (refer the prerequisite for speaking with God).
in the qur-an we learn that all prophets spoke with God. whether God spoke to them or otherwise is another matter. in fact we cannot even expect that God will surely speak with us (4251).
i suppose the above is enough just for the time being.
cheers
mohammed noh
