Symolisms

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Idris!

uh oh I detect this is gonna be another controversial thread that goes on for 300 replies before getting locked or dying

LOL!! That was funny. I hope it goes better han that though.

Quote
Mountains = governments (that which is used to stabalize)

I believe this is correct, the term usually translated as mountains was correct translated as stabalizers by free-minds.org and Rashad Khalifa, I think this is right that they represent governments

To follow up more on how I extract that understanding, remember when Noah's son, during the flood, stated he would find another mountain as a refuge. Well, before that I bettter explain water.

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Earth= human being
7 skies = 7 parts of the mind
birds = spiritual thoughts
Water= unstable environment
Land= stable environment

can you explain these ones to me and use verses to back this up, I have no idea how you came to these conclusions, especially the earth one

The Earth I equate with the human being, let me also add rain is equated with revelation, now here is the connection.

(1665) And The God descended from the sky water(rain), so He revived with it the land/Earth after its death/lifelessness, that in that (is) an evidence/sign (E) to a nation listening/hearing

The 7 skies and parts of the mind I will not tackle this early in the thread, I will just remind you that the God has given us 7 "pairs" and the great reading(quran). What are those 7 pairs?

Birds being spritual thoughts comes from the understanding that birds can trancend the lower regions and rise above. That is why they were used in the allegory when Abraham was shown how to revive the dead. Also in the story of Solomon, he wa taught the seech of the birds, spiritual language.

Water and land are unstable and stable environments. Musa had to cross the unstable environment. Th ePeople of Noah were overtaken by the unstable environment they created for themselves, etc.

Thats all I have for today. I think this thread will be very interesting.

unknownuser

Salaams idris,idol,all,
If any body would like meanings to certain words in some ayatbest thing is tell the WORD and its PLACE,and God willing if any body has the time they could try and do its translation with what ever is available to them,obviously it won,t be 100% accurate but it should be close ,better then any guswork-i presume.Better if they will be single words because as you are aware it takes a hell of long time to do full sentances.

By the way i think we all agree as God almighty has told you,me everyone the quran is simple to understand,so it could only be something in the translation-as far as i am aware.

Thank you.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

the quran is simple to understand

"Easy" and "hard" are subjective terms. For example, some of us have been here studying for more than 6 years, and still don't "understand" the entire message.

unknownuser

Salaams Br.

Please read,in any translation

5417,22,32,40
433

And say how you understand them,Thanks.

TheNabi

Salaam

Words come together as a portrait. Do not lose sight of this.

Joe

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

regarding thos verses, what is the arabic word for "understand"?

unknownuser

Salaams idol,

Yes the word you want is LILDIKRE.

Salaams.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MZ,

Yes the word you want is LILDIKRE.

Is that the word for "understand" or "remember"?

I ask because the veres you gave use the term "lilththikri" and the translators have it as follows.

(5417)
Transliteration - Walaqad yassarna alqur-ana lilththikri fahal min muddakirin

Y.Ali- And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?

R.Khalifa - We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?

Pickthal - And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?

Shakir - And certainly We have made the Quran easy for remembrance, but is there anyone who will mind?

Literal - And We have (E) eased/made the Koran flexible to the remembrance/reminder, so is there from a rememberer?

Remembering and understanding are different. Please clarify if that is the word for "understand".

unknownuser

How unfortunate but ,yes according to the great lanes.May be Q.d aswell but haven't checked that.

Salaams.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MZ,

I am not clear on your last response. What is unfortunate? And according to Lanes, what was the final answer?

unknownuser

Salaams idolfree,
Sorry i meant it means both -in lanes.As in some of the translations you gave.

I think even where they just use remember,does it make any sense to remember something when you don't understand.I think the hadithists are doing enough of that and that is not what God had in mind,anyway what do you think?But i ,from my understanding of it do say it means both.

Thanks.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MZ,

I think the meaning is that it is easy to remember. I would agree with you that the ultimate goal is to understand it. I would say that the stairghtfoward parts like don't kill, steal, etc are understood, so if we at least remember that part, we are doing much better than the present condition of humanity.

Regarding the actual word, I would put "understand" in the same category as whichever word is used for "reason" or "comprehend".

Satan_Hates_Me

Idolfree

7 skies = 7 parts of the mind

what are these seven parts of the mind and can you back up your proof with some kind of phsycological evidence?

I can never understand how someone can justify symbolic logic when symbolism is so subjective.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

what are these seven parts of the mind and can you back up your proof with some kind of phsycological evidence?

I can never understand how someone can justify symbolic logic when symbolism is so subjective.

I do not have the proof for that information at this time. That is based off of a hunch at this time, which is how all ideas start. What is your understanding of the seven pairs given to us with the great reading(quran)?

Satan_Hates_Me

Peace be upon you,

what are these seven parts of the mind and can you back up your proof with some kind of phsycological evidence?
I can never understand how someone can justify symbolic logic when symbolism is so subjective.

I do not have the proof for that information at this time. That is based off of a hunch at this time, which is how all ideas start. What is your understanding of the seven pairs given to us with the great reading(quran)?

my undertanding is base on the context of the surronding verses

1585 - We did not create the heavens and the earth, and everything between them, except for a specific purpose. The end of the world will come, so treat them with benign neglect.

1586 - Your Lord is the Creator, the Omniscient.

1587 - We have given you the seven pairs, and the great Quran.

1588 - Do not be jealous of what we bestowed upon the other (messengers), and do not be saddened (by the disbelievers), and lower your wing for the believers.

It is clear that the seven pairs are within the Koran. There are many place in the Koran where "and" is use to place emphasis on a part of something but not isolating it from that thing (253).
Also it was given to the messenger, not humans beings. So the claims that we were given the "seven pairs" which are our "seven parts" of the mind seem illogical.
Also it says "pairs" not parts. So technically, there are 14 separate elements that is mention in verse 1587.

Base on these facts, it is clear the "seven pairs" are the beginning initials of different Koran chapters. They are the only tanigble evidence that prefectly testify to these seven pairs.

they are "seven pairs"
14 different elements
they are within the koran
plus in context of the verse, they hint to "The end of the world"

surah# / beginning initials

Q
N
S (Saad)
H.M.
Y.S.
T.H.
T.S.
A.L.M.
A.L.R.
T.S.M.
`A.S.Q.
A.L.M.S.
A.L.M.R.
K.H.Y.`A.S.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

What do you see as the purpose of the 14 initials?

Idris

peace idolfree,

Peace be upon you,

What do you see as the purpose of the 14 initials?

I know SHM well enough to answer this for him, their mathematical properties, I think the people at submission.org believe they are somehow linked with the year the end of the earth occurs as well, go here to see some of their articles on the mathematic properties http//www.submission.org/miracle/

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Idris,

Thanks for the help. I figured thats where this was heading.

I would like to ask the following, since when did they become "initials"?

There is no "PERIOD " seperating thes letters. If there is a period it is man made. So they would be connected letters, not initials.

Further, how do we connect these words to mathematical properties? The God syas that these words are signs, not mathematical properties.

But I am most concerned with how they came to be initials.

Satan_Hates_Me

Peace be upon you,

What do you see as the purpose of the 14 initials?

base on context of surronding verse, it seem it is related to the 'end of the world' in verse 1585. Also they are proof/signs of the Koran as GOD scripture (101, 121, 131). So the 14 initials are proof/sign of the Koran divine authorship and a sign/proof of the 'end of the world.'

Why a sign of the 'end of the world'? From verse 1561 down, the context of the surah is 'people rejecting the messengers send to them' and after that GOD deliever the judgement (destroying the community). GOD tells us this is the system (1513, 1576).
Then in verse 1585 GOD says "We did not create the heavens and the earth, and everything between them, except for a specific purpose. The end of the world will come." It is like saying that this system will be apply to mankind as a whole.
Then GOD says "We have given you the seven pairs, and the great Quran." this means, that messenger and the warming of the 'end of the world' has been given, so next is the judgement.
Then GOD say, "and do not be saddened." Which to me mean 'dont be sadden by this fact of the end of the world.' Then GOD says "We will deal with the dividers, They accept the Quran only partially." This means people who accept the Koran yet reject this sign (the seven pairs).

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

The word "quran" is not the title of any book.

Once this is understood, the 19 trial will be shown for what it is.