Theory of Evolution anyone ?

[tutti_frutti]

salam

regarding the “low”, sorry it was meant for layth regarding his previous post (and to people who claim that swine is forbidden because it is a “low/unclean animal”)

you say “ no, they were chastised (faqul'nā) not turned into apes nor made to be steadfast in the justice, etc.”

do you realize that The God told us that when He wants something He simply says to it “Be” and it is (and it is logical as He owns what is, and He owns existence (He creates existence))

“He is the One Who has originated the heavens and the earth, and when He wills to a thing, He only says to it 'BE', AND IT BECOMES.” (chapter 2, verse 117)

so by telling the sabbath transgressors “be despicable apes”, well they became despicable apes

and He also told us the example of jesus is like adam, The God simply told jesus to “be” and jesus came to existence in mariame’s womb.so where is evolution here? and if adam was told “be” and he was as well, where is evolution? did adam appear in a human/monkey hybrid’s womb? well i personal highly doubt (although obviously The God is capable of all things)
adam was in paradise before earth and then adam was told to descend to earth. so as i understand it, adam was created as adam before The God sent him to earth

and adam was created in his image (we know that there are non like The God (plse see verse below) so perhaps in his image meant adam was created as adam and not as part of evolution? or maybe The God is telling us adam has free will? but the angels and djinns have free will i think. animals too. or perhaps The God means the ability to reason? but yet again there are none like The God (i am giving other possibilities because only The God knows the truth))
“The Creator of the heavens and the earth. He hath made for you pairs of yourselves, and of the cattle also pairs, whereby He multiplieth you. NAUGHT IS AS HIS LIKENINESS; and He is the Hearer, the Seer.“ chapter 42 verse 11

for chapter 5, verse 60, The God says those He cursed, and not those He curses. so it is a past tense. the word “cursed” is past tense as such it was the past for prophet mohammed’s (pbuh and pbu all the other prophets and messengers) generation yeah?

the following is just an assumption i am making please do not quote me. if you are saying that people becoming apes and pigs is present or an ongoing process (perhaps why not?) then pigs you see are made from transgressors up to this day maybe? look at what disbelievers say in chapter 40 verse 11

“They will say, "Our Lord, You killed us (or made us lifeless?) twice and gave us life twice, and we have confessed our sins. So is there to an exit any way?"”

maybe disbelievers have a life as humans then as pigs? note that in hell disbelievers will not die nor be alive as we read in chapter 14 verse 17

“he will gulp it but will hardly swallow it. And death will come to him from everywhere, but he is not to die. And before him is a massive punishment“

you mention pork is forbidden just as blood, carrion etc but what is your understanding of the reasons?

just for extra, here is my take on the forbidden foods

already dead/lifeless it has been dead already we do not know if it was killed in the name of The God or not (was it killed by dsibeliever or another animal? or died naturally?) and also not safe for consumption (bacteria parasites etc)

blood i think blood carries something about life, like perhaps the fuel for our bodies (although not a reference, please check what the bible says about blood)

dedicated to other than The God well obviously we should give thanks before we kill an animal (as well as give thanks to The God for any other food we eat before we take a bite) and as such the animals should be sacrificed it to The King.

pork akin to cannibalism as they were made form humans

thats just my take on it and and my understanding, perhaps i am completely wrong )

only The God knows the truth

peace

[jkhan]

Peace brother TFruti. .

Yes.. You are wrong as you claim.. " Perhaps I am completely wrong "

But in this case.. Your claim that pork is forbidden coz swine is from Human is total assumption which has no instructions from God.. May be it can be a blasphemy on God's verses..
God simply forbidden.. So they are forbidden.. Why forbidden is for our ASSUMPTIONS not necessarily true and required either. But in the case of pork.. God says it is "rijz"... People can take various reason according to studies in pork since it is mentioned rijz while forbidden ..
BTW God only forbidden flesh of swine and not whole of swine.. So. Your claim further weakens.. Can you forbid the fat of swine? So how do you take it without killing.. Further under compulsion and dire necessity pork can be consumed.. As well meat of apes not forbidden.. There needs consistency if the reason is as you claim ..

God promises that He will fill Men and Jinn in hell and they (disbelievers) and stones are fuel for hell..224 ... Not apes and pigs..

Let turn to the point.. I have tried to understand those apes and pigs verses, but unfortunately cannot conclude to date with convinced set of mind.. .. Whether God made them from Human out of shear ANGER and CURSE on them apes and pigs or those verses mean something else..
Probably you are right God made them from those community if taken literally... But your claim for reasons forbidden food within Quran is weak.. But assumptions..

One more thing.. In case God made from that community Apes and Pigs then it is not fair on their children ... God send human in this world to be tested and not by birth be apes and pigs and be tested... God created men and Jin for testing.. No animals included..
But in the case of that community.. God used not only the word pigs but apes.. Two type of animals concerning Disbelieving aggressive people.. And note the ANGER/WRATH of God as well CURSE of God over them.. This doesn't happen normally.. Even in case if God turned them, that could be the end of them (as destruction )for me and no more living so that story continues based on one communities disastrous action.. Others no need to feel the brunt of them.. It's not testing.. Remember God tests Human and Jin...
Note below verse..

447 "O! You who have been given the Book, believe in what We have sent down, confirming what is with you, before We obliterate faces, and turn them upon their backs, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-men, and God's command is done"

So, it was a warning to the people of scripture as well through QURAN .. So it seems similar to Sabbath never happened again (God knows though.. Could have happened as well).. But God warns.. So.. Apes and pigs already were living when verse 447 was revealed.. But still God promises that He is ready to turn them into as it was done to Sabaath-breakers .. In case God accomplished what He promised in verse 447... We can't claim again that apes and pigs came from Human after this verse.

God's CURSE and WRATH together normally can only be a destruction ... Once God cursed no way out at all.. And coupled with anger then God only knows what He does..

For me.. Apes and pigs were created well before as all of other animals.. And in the case of Sabaathbreakers it was only a punishment and destruction... Hope they all died..

Read carefully 7165 and 166 .. It was a punishment and others who obeyed was saved... And these were destroyed but with a shameless destruction to feel them..

And it seems it has happened in various occasions... Sabbath is clear Apes... not pigs. That could be another occasion. . And don't forget God turned another group to slaves/worshipers of taguth. ..(560)
But Sabaathbreakers case very clear a destruction.. And only apes mentioned for them..

[tutti_frutti]

salam jkhan

again, i said those that The God made from apes and swine are NOT the sabbath transgressors

the sabbath transgressors were transformed into “despicable apes” and NOT swine and it was a punishment, and i understand they died off

pigs and swine made from disbelievers

despicable apes sabbath transgressors told to “be despicable apes”, we are NOT told The
God “made from” the sabbath transgressors despicable apes

why did The God add adjective “despicable” in this case? why did He say “be” and “made from”?
where were the sabbath transgressors if not egypt? where were allllll ape human common ancestors found by archeologists? africa ! where is egypt? africa !
coincidence?

i am not making assumptions, i am taking the verses as they are and literally.

anyways to each and everyone their beliefs. if i am wrong then may The God please guide me if He wants.

peace

[jkhan]

salam jkhan

again, i said those that The God made from apes and swine are NOT the sabbath transgressors

the sabbath transgressors were transformed into “despicable apes” and NOT swine and it was a punishment, and i understand they died off

pigs and swine made from disbelievers

despicable apes sabbath transgressors told to “be despicable apes”, we are NOT told The
God “made from” the sabbath transgressors despicable apes

why did The God add adjective “despicable” in this case? why did He say “be” and “made from”?
where were the sabbath transgressors if not egypt? where were allllll ape human common ancestors found by archeologists? africa ! where is egypt? africa !
coincidence?

i am not making assumptions, i am taking the verses as they are and literally.

anyways to each and everyone their beliefs. if i am wrong then may The God please guide me if He wants.

peace

Peace again brother..

Explore... And don't be adamant while exploring.. Relax.. Listen to others and ponder and verify... Exploration is combination of success and failure..
You have no evidence to resort to a firm decision that all pigs in this world are human once and still they are but their figure looks pigs.. You need to skin off to prove this..

Sabbath is one incident... And apes involved.. They were punished...

Taguth converted people another incident.. And people continued to live.. May be still around. No idea..

Pigs involved is another people.. How do you say that they live... If not with curse and wrath of God He won't convert them to pigs.. Such things always for destruction.. Coz we can take example from Sabaathbreakers = People + apes.. Involved.. Died as destruction...

Which people ?????? = people + pigs involved... Didn't they tast the destruction?

But in taghut case God let them live in their blindness unless they change themselves ... Such a curse..

But with the time and new generation even the taghut people would have believed.. There is chance as per Quran verses.. 2256

So dear rush of blood... Lol... You have no proof from Quran that pigs are human once..
You coin pig story to which prophet period? Any proof? So no pigs UNTILL then on earth? Is it Musa you claim?

Further.. 560 it was in order... Apes then pig then taghut.. So apes from Sabaathbreakers then pigs has to be after sabath...
Which prophet related to sabath.. ?

Your google search says this..

Pigs are also called swine. Pigs were among the first animals to be domesticated — about 9,000 years ago — in China and in a region in what is now Turkey. Asian farmers first brought domesticated pigs to Europe around 7,500 years ago, according to Smithsonian magazine.

If domesticated then they must be living well before.. That's what your google says..

[tutti_frutti]

salam

again, the sabbath breakers and those from whom pigs and apes were made are not the same thing

again, the sabbath breakers were told to “BE DESPICABLE” apes and NOT “apes and swine” but DESPICABLE APES (note the adjective DESPICABLE)

i am not claiming that the swine and apes are during musa time. you are assuming that because you have not understood what i am saying. again sabbath breakers and those from whom swine and apes were made are not the same.

and why do you assume that those from whom The God made apes and pigs had to be during a prophet or messenger lifetime or during a prophet or messenger mission?

regarding the swine and ape, my proof is from the Quran. The God said He made from them THE swine and THE apes (AL QIRADATA and AL KHANAZEERA) note the “AL” which is “THE”

again, sabbath breakers and apes/swine are TWO DIFFERENT things

your quote from the internet about domestication does not mean anything. humans try to make “sense” of everything. they try to make everything be “scientific”

and even so, let us assume swine was indeed domesticated in china and turkey, who says those The God made from swine were not first in china and turkey? who says they have to be just one group of people in one location at one time?

and again, sabbath breakers and those whom swine and apes were made from ARE NOT THE SAME

i have no blood rush or so, i am just merely expressing my understanding. i am using capital letters to get my point through

i am not adamant... i am passionate about my worship of The God

anyways i rest my case.

peace

[jkhan]

Then anyone would wonder why you claimed sabath was in Egypt?
What made you to decide? From Quran or outside?
God destroys always after a Warner is sent and being called for right path... That's why I asked which messenger you refer since openly claimed Egypt and Africa...
Okay rest... That would give you relaxation... And open more vistas

[tutti_frutti]

salam

again, the people from whom swine and apes were made are not the sabbath transgressors

the sabbath transgressors issue took place when beni israel were in egypt. as sabbath was given to beni israel, all i can think of is perhaps the issue happening after jospeh time (as i understand beni israel are descendants of joseph and his brothers when they moved to legypt)

sabbath was given to beni israel from my understanding as they disputed in it (my opinion is they got the sabbath because they blasphemed by saying the fabrication that The God rested on the 7th day) the question is, was the sabbath decreed before the Torah was sent or after the Torah was sent

when they were told “be despicable apes”, they transformed into what scientists call the human/ape ancestor who ate neither human. nor ape, but a despicable and weird looking human//ape

scientists claim that humans evolved from within africa because all the human/ape ancestor fossils were found in africa

egypt is in africa - so i am guessing either they (they as in the sabbath transgressors turned into despicable apes) fled from egypt to locations such as kenya when they were transformed or there were diasporas already existing across eastern africa

AGAIN, humans from whom swine and apes were made are not the same as the sabbath breakers

peace

[Noon_waalqalami]

do you realize that The God told us that when He wants something He simply says to it “Be” and it is (and it is logical as He owns what is, and He owns existence (He creates existence))

“He is the One Who has originated the heavens and the earth, and when He wills to a thing, He only says to it 'BE', AND IT BECOMES.” (chapter 2, verse 117)

so by telling the sabbath transgressors “be despicable apes”, well they became despicable apes

peace, it's not the same these describe process ...

2117... فانما so solely ىقول speaketh له to it كن be فىكون so being
347 .... فانما so solely ىقول speaketh له to it كن be فىكون so being
1935 ... فانما so solely ىقول speaketh له to it كن be فىكون so being
4068 ... فانما so solely ىقول speaketh له to it كن be فىكون so being

359 ... ثم furthermore قال said له to him كن be فىكون so being
673 ... وىوم and day ىقول speaketh كن be فىكون so being
1640 ... نقول we speak له to it كن be فىكون so being
3682 ... ىقول speaketh له to it كن be فىكون so being

whereas this is speech, not about creation etc.

265 فقلنا so said we of لهم to them "كونوا be ye of قرده monkeys خسىىن despicable"
1750 قل say "كونوا be ye of حجره stone او or حدىدا iron of"

if transformed when were they named قرده qiradatan?
which language were people at that time speaking?

why so many monkeys across the globe spread quickly?
https//www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01t197x/p01w4yv8

the following is just an assumption i am making please do not quote me. if you are saying that people becoming apes and pigs is present or an ongoing process (perhaps why not?) then pigs you see are made from transgressors up to this day maybe? look at what disbelievers say in chapter 40 verse 11

560 ... وجعل and made منهم of them القرده the monkeys والخنزىر and the swines وعبد and devote الطغوت the false idols

figurative or non-literal language

https//i.pinimg.com/474x/e0/9a/ff/e09affb151eb810bf4780078109a41ae--monkey-business-monkeys.jpg

[tutti_frutti]

salam noon waalqalami

you mention surah 17 verse 50.
please note it is not The God who tells people to be iron and stone. The God tells the believers (or maybe muhammed pbuh, depending on whom the verse was addressed to) to “say” to the disbelievers whether they be of iron or stone, or whatever creation, they will still be ressurected.

whilst in the verse about the sabbath transgressors, it is The God who tells them “Be despicable apes”. note that he verse says “We (The God) told them Be despicable apes”

you say “if transformed when were they named قرده qiradatan?
which language were people at that time speaking?”
i do not understand what you mean and what is your point

you say why did monkeys spread quickly. why do you assume that those whom pigs and apes were made from originate from middle east and that it was just a one time event? The God says those He was angry with. He does not say the one nation or “qawm” He was angry with. He says “those” He was angry with. so perhaps He was angry with people across the globe and throughout different times? my advice, do not go assuming things

The God said “made from them THE apes and THe pigs” why not believe that He literally made from them apes and swine??? and that it is a sign and proof from The God to the believers !
is it a coincidence that swine and apes are very similar to humans? even to the point that scientist say humans originated from apes and swine hybrid? and that swine organs are compatible with humans? etc etc

peace

[tutti_frutti]

salam

i would like to share another website and quote a passage from it (please read the website and also google research)

“But pigs offer more than just a potential source for organ donation. For over 30 years, scientists have been using pigs in a number of medical fields, including dermatology, cardiology and more. Recently, scientists were even able to re-grow human leg muscles using implants made of pig bladder tissue.”

“No one really knows why the organs and anatomical systems of pigs are so similar to humans. Swindle (retired veterinary researcher) theorizes that millions of years ago, they were even more similar, but then the species diverged genetically and independently developed similar characteristics through evolution.”
https//www.foxnews.com/health/why-pigs-are-so-valuable-for-medical-research

scientists keep throwing theories to try to explain why apes, pigs and humans are extremely similar, so they come up with ridiculous things like evolution and common ancestor etc. but us (who believe the Quran is from The God) we know the true answer. we know why apes and pigs are very similar to humans. The God, in His infinite mercy, told us in the Quran. He made them from humans. i believe it is yet another sign and proof from The God to humanity, and that is definately a mercy from Him !

i thank The God !

peace

[Noon_waalqalami]

salam noon waalqalami

you mention surah 17 verse 50.
please note it is not The God who tells people to be iron and stone. The God tells the believers (or maybe muhammed pbuh, depending on whom the verse was addressed to) to “say” to the disbelievers whether they be of iron or stone, or whatever creation, they will still be ressurected.

whilst in the verse about the sabbath transgressors, it is The God who tells them “Be despicable apes”. note that he verse says “We (The God) told them Be despicable apes”

you say “if transformed when were they named قرده qiradatan?
which language were people at that time speaking?”
i do not understand what you mean and what is your point

you say why did monkeys spread quickly. why do you assume that those whom pigs and apes were made from originate from middle east and that it was just a one time event? The God says those He was angry with. He does not say the one nation or “qawm” He was angry with. He says “those” He was angry with. so perhaps He was angry with people across the globe and throughout different times? my advice, do not go assuming things

The God said “made from them THE apes and THe pigs” why not believe that He literally made from them apes and swine??? and that it is a sign and proof from The God to the believers !
is it a coincidence that swine and apes are very similar to humans? even to the point that scientist say humans originated from apes and swine hybrid? and that swine organs are compatible with humans? etc etc

peace, read in context one incidence during time of Musa 263-66, 292-93, 447-48, 4154, 7163-168
قلنا said we of لهم to them “كونوا be ye of قرده monkeys خسىىن despicable!”
no mention of swine or conversion rather a direct “statement/chastisement” and they were punished unstated how; likewise quran is a translation into Arabic of dialog that transpired in their language at the time which according to you there would be no monkeys or a word for monkeys in any language until later after they spread regardless of initial location. Therefore, in your theory you cannot use above verses.

560 read in context about behavior e.g. 7179/2544 كالانعم kal-anami/like “the” cattle
likewise, dna were a closer to the cow than the swine.

Berlin, State Library ms.or.fol. 4313
606-652, CE (95.4%) - parchment
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/5/vers/60/handschrift/15

https//i.postimg.cc/CMHvHpp0/ch5v59-67.jpg

[tutti_frutti]

salam noon waalqalami

again, the episode with the sabbath transgressors is not the same as when we are told The God made apes and pigs from humans.

sabbath transgressors were turned into despicable apes
yes they were punished and we are told how!
they are turned into despicable apes !!

and this is not the same as when we are told The God made pigs and apes from people He was angry with. THEY ARE NOT RELATED )

what do you mean who called them monkeys?

well, who called a cow a cow? or a rabbit a rabbit? or a fly a fly? or a car a car?
even today im guessing new animal species are found and named
well, with The God’s permission, when people stumbled upon apes they called them apes and same for pigs

we do not use cow organs in humans, and we do not have same organs as cows or same skin etc etc
with swine yes !!!!

you say “560 read in context about behavior e.g. 7179/2544 كالانعم kal-anami/like “the” cattle”

here there is “like the”, but regarding the pig and ape verse there is NO “like the”
there is “We MADE FROM THEM the apes and the pigs” and NOT “made them “like” the apes and the swines”

peace

[tutti_frutti]

salam noon waalqalamk

i want to add something
you use translation of “ja3ala minhom” as “made of them” and not “made from them”

if it was “made of them”, then you mean pigs existed before and some humans turned to pigs and apes?
but that is NOT correct

why? well alllllll pigs and apes are similar to humans !
whatever pig you pick up, its still a pig and has same body as allll the other pigs ! otherwise it would not be a pig !!

and its organs will be compatible with humans cause it is a pig like allllll the other pigs !

you dont have some pigs compatible with humans and some not - that does not make sense, it would mean that every pig is a different animal

there is swine, there is NOT swine version 1 and swine version 2 and swine version 3 etc s
there is swine, as there is human, there is cat, fly, horse etc

also, when someone asks you where you are from - you reply “min”
“min” means from

anyways peace my friend

[jkhan]

447 "O! You who have been given the Book, believe in what We have sent down, confirming what is with you, before We obliterate faces, and turn them upon their backs, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-men, and God's command is done"

Peace...
Do anyone have a better research on what I have highlighted and underlined... What exactly does that mean to you...
Or simply what you understand when you read it..

@ TF...
God didn't forbid apes so your claim still weak... And pigs also not forbidden in a sense as they were human.. Only flesh forbidden and I can eat pork if compelled so... The reason to forbid is no way near what you claim.. Try to understand your claim is weak.. Don't be adamant.. It's so clear... God never forbids coz pigs are human.. Lol...

Furthet I do t see anything wrong NW calling made of them --- minhum.. Even made from them or even made among them... Just all works...

[tutti_frutti]

salam jkhan

you may eat pigs if compelled just as you may eat carrion when you are compelled

i do not understand what is the issue with being given permission to eat a forbidden food if compelled and not seeking transgression. how does that negate the fact that swine was made from humans???

why apes are not forbidden to eat? only The God knows. maybe the way pigs were made from humans is not the same as the way apes where made (actually body versus just dna etc) or maybe because those to whom the Book was sent do not eat apes anyways, but tend to eat swine.
i do not know why apes are not forbidden. all i know is to take the Quran as the literal word of The God, and when He says He made apes and pigs from humans, then i believe it
i do not understand why people are interpeting YET AGAIN the Quran, especially a very straight forward verse !!!

you say “The reason to forbid is no way near what you claim.. Try to understand your claim is weak.. Don't be adamant.. It's so clear... God never forbids coz pigs are human.. Lol...”

so what do you claim?? what is your understanding?
you say its soo clear...what do you mean its soo clear? what is soo clear?
if you have some special knowledge please share

anyways peace my friend and good luck

[Noon_waalqalami]

you use translation of “ja3ala minhom” as “made of them” and not “made from them”

peace,
it’s not we made “from” them abada l-taghuta – which is an ideology not an animal.

like saying we made from the german people (literally) wiener schnitzel and nazism.

3110 منهم min’humu/of (among) them المومنون the believing واكثرهم and more them الفسقون the disobeying

961 ومنهم wamin’humu/and of (among) them الذىن the ones ىوذون pestering النبى the prophet

2129-30 ومن and who ىقل sayeth منهم min'hum/of (among) them انى indeed I اله deity من from دونه besides him فذلك so such نجزىه we compensate him/said person جهنم abyss كذلك like such نجزى we compensate الظلمىن the wrongdoers اولم do they not ىر see الذىن the ones كفروا reject they of ان anna (an inna/that indeed) السموت the skies/heavens والارض and the land/earth كانتا be she/they dual رتقا sewn of ففتقنهما so ripped we them dual وجعلنا and made we of من mina/from الما the water كل every شى thing حى live افلا then so not ىومنون believing

[good_logic]

Peace All.

Every now and then I get the feeling that I should not approach subjects like this. However I am not listening to me and here we go

I will tackle "the controversy of evolution" from all angles,especially from Science and religion prespectives by first asking the following questions
1-Where did anyone see an animal, a plant or a human appear as fully grown like by some kind of magic( i.e without going through stages)?
2- Have the stages developped through the ages? If yes ,how?
3- What does Qoran say about stages of creation?

One may say GOD can do magic, but GOD tells us that creation is done by stages . GOD also tells us that there are laws and there is order to the creation. GOD says "be (to the plan) and it is (after certain stages)" .

Let us start with a simple case of the human.
The baby is conceived then starts as a single combined cell of the male and female from their reproductive organs.
This single cell contains information(DNA) guiding its path to become a fully grown baby. DNA codes are shaping the divide of the cell and the production of different organs within the cell to produce a human being with the eyes, ears, brain and all the parts that make it human.
Then GOD has given it the "spirit" of life and out it comes a baby human.
This baby still will grow and develop physically and mentally while learning about life and preparing to take his/her part in this life as a fully grown adult.(With exceptions of those that do not make it for reasons only known to the creator!)
This is part of what one can define as an evolution ,be it a specific human one.
Animals and plants have similar process that may differ slightly. One gets the point up to here.

Now here comes the part that has so much controversy and is strill at loggerhead by Science and religion.From the extreme "we come from apes" to GOD created"Adam and Eve" as a whole grown up man and woman!!!

Well ,prepare for some good logic "assumptions" that may marry the two camps, or not!!!
GOD started the creation of the earth in 4 stages that made it habitable for us( solely for our purpose to live here). Part of the stages was the balance of all the elements required for life like Oxygen, CO2, ...etc.
The earth has undergone an evolution to become what it is. The stages were necessary for its completion as a habitable planet.
Similarly all the inhabitants (Animals/iinsects, plants and humans)/were to be created on this earth to compliment this purpose .How?

Remember that first cell that produced the human baby with all its different organs and their functions?
Darwin in a way was right remember his theory about the single cell, you know the one that formed in the water from elements including "clay". l Darwin was wrong in its simplicity. What Darwin did not know(and could not at that time) was that this single cell was complex, full of information(DNA) how to grow and what to produce?

This complex cell had DNA information to produce different species of animals/insects and humans,all at the same time( Like the single baby cell that was programmed to produce different organs of different functions).
To cut a long story ( A very long story of millions of years) short, all the various species came out at once. Each type of species underwent their own evolution and perfection in various surrondings of the "habitable earth" -By natural selection-.

In the case of mankind, well, (Our species and Monkeys evolved separately .We did not evolve from them!!) GOD waited for our shaping ( Khalaknakum Thumma Sawwarnakum Thumma...) Created us-That first cell-, then shaped us-Through evolution to perfect our shape , brain...etc. Then GOD chose Adam and Eve for the demonstration to the Malaika...- Of course the rest is history.

Before you ask me to publish any finding in a journal or a book or..
First I have not found anything that GOD has not given us as information to investigate -either from Qoran or Science or others who studied it-
Second I am saying this is my opinion according to me.
Lastly, it does not matter what one believes ,please let us all try and follow/do the message.

So when GOD says"Badaa Al Khalk" Started a creation .it always means there are stages to its completion and we are no different to all other species.
Then when God gave us the Amana- free will-, Monkeys and pigs were not given this. Hence humans did not and will not become monkeys or pigs.
What GOD is saying in the verses is simply "As dispicable as apes /pigs from our point of view.( Not GOD s!)

GOD bless you all.
Peace.

[tutti_frutti]

salam noon waalqalami

we are told THE apes and THE swine but NOT THE abada

and also abada could perhaps mean and “they worship the taghut”

so perhaps The God made from them THE apes and THE swine and they worship the taghut (devil?)

or The God made from them THE apes and THE swine and worshippers of the taghut (devil?) AND NOT THHHHE worshippers of taghut

salam good logic

first, what do you mean by natural selection? what is natural selection? some intelligent mechanism that drives life snd adaptability??

The God decides, not “natural selection”
do not equate natural selection to some power that drives life on earth ... dont you think doing so is shirk?
The God decides, and not some mechanism humans invented in their minds and called natural selection (or you say The God created the mechanism of natural selection? buy why? and The God governs the world, and everyday He is governing it (as told to us in the Quran))
...

when you say stages etc and you mention as the baby comes out it is developing etc..the baby is still human..it will not grow into something not human. a baby develops into a human and stays a human. where is natural selection and transformation here? do some babies develop into something non human? no, babies grow into what ever species they are meant to be.
a baby cat becomes an adult cat, a baby human becomes an adult human, a baby fly becomes an adult fly etc

you say “ What GOD is saying in the verses is simply "As dispicable as apes /pigs from our point of view.( Not GOD s!”
why are you assuming this???

you say “ Then when God gave us the Amana- free will-, Monkeys and pigs were not given this. Hence humans did not and will not become monkeys or pigs.”
who said the apes and monkeys given amana?
first off, we need to stop assuming that we know what amana is and equating it to free will or reason etc we do not know what amana is, case closed
and for your reference, you claim it is free will..well a horse can decide to rest or to go jumping in the field or a dog can decide to come lie down next to its master or run etc etc so animals have free will. you dont think?

the mountains, skies and the earth refused the amana, so did they not think? to refuse it, they thought about it perhaps? so is that not reasoning? and to accept or refuse it, is thay not a sign of free will? they had the free will to accept it or refuse it right?
we are actually told the human being accepted it and the human is ignorant and transgressor. so perhaps it is we who reasoned wrong
my point - do not assume about what amana is, we simply do not know

second, monkeys and pigs came AFTER humans as they were made FROM humans. so what are you saying by monkeys and apes not given amana?? as they came AFTER humans and FROM humans

adam was created as adam, not as something that evolved into adam
adam was created as adam (you agree?) and then came down to earth as adam with his wife (why do people call her eve by the way?? we are not told her name)

regarding “early” humans like neandertals, please read this verse (chapter 7 verse 69)

“Do you consider it odd that there should come to you a reminder from your Lord through a man from among yourselves, so that he may warn you? Remember when He made you successors after the people of Noah, and increased you vastly in CREATION. So remember Allah’s bounties so that you may be felicitous.’”

The God increased the people of ad in CREATION after noah’s people. The word “khol9a” is creation. so yeah, noah’s people are what scientists call “early humans”

there is no evolution by natural selection. that does not even mean anything. The God govrns the world, as is clearly told to us in the Quran, and He is capable of everything

anyways it is an extremely straight forward verse (s)
but it seems each understands it differently

peace and good luck

[good_logic]

Peace tutti_frutti

Yes brother, I am sure reading your posts , we have a different understanding. As sure as there was evolution of all the species, A GOD guided evolution of course.

I do not really know where to start or if it is worth the effort conversing about this huge gulf of views in our understanding of evolution and the creation of mankind.
So you think this,quote
"adam was created as adam, not as something that evolved into adam
adam was created as adam (you agree?) and then came down to earth as adam with his wife (why do people call her eve by the way?? we are not told her name)

I thought Adam was created on earth? (Minha khalknakum Wa Fiha Nuhidukum Wa Minha Nukhrijukum ...)
From the earth we have created you(Beni Adam includes Adam) and on earth we reproduce you and from earth we will resurrect you.

If you do not mind I will pass from the conversation altogether as I find we are miles apart in our views and it will be pointless

Like I said let us both put our effort in living the message. Please forgive me if I do not respond on this subject.
Good luck to you as well.
Thank you and GOD bless you.
Peace.

[tutti_frutti]

salam good logic

hope your well

yes i understand adam was created from earth/(clay? but adam and his wife first lived in paradise (unless you equate paradise to earth)

“and “o adam, dwell, you and your wife, in paradise (garden/jannah) and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."” (ch 7, verse 19)

then adam was told “to go down”. the go down for me means earth, as earth is mentioned in same verse and the “that which they were in” perhaps means existence free from hardship and knowledge of nudity (i do not know, i only think)

“but satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that in which they had been. and We said, "go down, as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time."” (ch 2, verse 36)

in any case whether adam was created on earth then put in paradise or created in paradise from clay/eartg, that does not change that there is no evolution. i do not see the relationship between being on earth or paradise and evolution

you realize i hope that idea of “evolution” exists only because scientists cannot explain why humans are similar to apes, and cannot also explain why there are “depsicable” apes (what they call human ape ancestors) in africa

the only thing they can say is “evolution and natural selection” and humans originated from
africa in order to try to “rationalize” it in their minds

same goes for pigs. scientist see pigs are very similar to humans and so they start saying we have a common ancestors with pigs. just cause they cannot explain it they invent weird theories (plse google the theories if you have time)

we know why apes and pigs are like humans. The God told us in the Quran. He made them from humans. HE decides and HE does what HE wants.

we know who the “human ape ancestors” are. The God told us in the Quran (they are the sabbath breakers who were made into despicable apes) please look at the verses 65 and 66 of chapter 2

“for you are well aware of those from among you who profaned the Sabbath, whereupon We said to them, "Be apes, despised."

And We made it a deterrent punishment for those who were present and those who succeeded and a lesson for those who fear The God.”

The God says they are a deterrent punishement for those of that time and succeeding generations ! well, we found them ! we found their fossils/skeletons! they are a warning to us !!

if you say what about the generations before the human/ape skeletons were found, check verse 106 of surah 2

“Whatever sign (aya) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. know you not that The God is able to do all things?”

for me “aya” means signs here and not verses.
we have skeletons and fossils of those “apes” whilst perhaps previous generations had other signs and proofs and coming generations will have other signs and proofs

please think about evolution and the idea of humans and apes sharing an ancestor, and natural selection very hard and you’ll hopefully see that it is extremely silly

anyways yeah we have too much of a gap in our understanding lol mayb i am compleeeetely wrong indeed, but i believe what i believe

good luck my friend. looking forward to reading your other thoughts and understanding of the Quran and our worship of The God

peace