Theory of Evolution anyone ?
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salam jkhan
you may eat pigs if compelled just as you may eat carrion when you are compelled
i do not understand what is the issue with being given permission to eat a forbidden food if compelled and not seeking transgression. how does that negate the fact that swine was made from humans???
why apes are not forbidden to eat? only The God knows. maybe the way pigs were made from humans is not the same as the way apes where made (actually body versus just dna etc) or maybe because those to whom the Book was sent do not eat apes anyways, but tend to eat swine.
i do not know why apes are not forbidden. all i know is to take the Quran as the literal word of The God, and when He says He made apes and pigs from humans, then i believe it
i do not understand why people are interpeting YET AGAIN the Quran, especially a very straight forward verse !!!you say “The reason to forbid is no way near what you claim.. Try to understand your claim is weak.. Don't be adamant.. It's so clear... God never forbids coz pigs are human.. Lol...”
so what do you claim?? what is your understanding?
you say its soo clear...what do you mean its soo clear? what is soo clear?
if you have some special knowledge please shareanyways peace my friend and good luck
Brother.. Peace..
Unfortunately you are repeating.. And you have no idea in each thread what you write.. You skip..
Your quote "i have a question, why do people assume swine (and apes) are “low” animals? what is your criteria for them being “low”?? what does it even mean “low”?"
Coz God called flesh of swine is "Rijz" ..whatever the meaning you take for rijz I don't mind.. But God simply forbid it and called rijz not given the reason as equal to human flesh.
Your quote "and why would pork be forbidden if not that they were made from humans as mentioned clearly?"
This is the claim I entered to this topic.. You openly claimed the above..
It's not true.. You can't make it true while you don't have proof..
Only one verse in entire Quran 560 says ja'ala minhum apes and pigs.. So it is common verse to apes and pigs.. Remember common verse..
If the reason you take by this verse pigs forbidden coz they are Human and there is no reason why God should allow apes.. What logic is this? So apes also human.. Chapter close..
That's my last take.. Whatever you take is assumptions and assumptions are not equal to truth and evidence from God..I have no answers through QURAN for illogical adamance but I can answer for logical questions.. If you want to research whether God turned human into apes and pigs keep researching.. But don't claim forbid matter without proof
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salam jkhan
many translations translate rijz as impure
so...pig of flesh is impure...why? there is a reason no? and i understand it to be because they were made form humans
being rijz or impure is not a reason !!! it is a condition !!!
anyways, whatever the reason pig is forbidden, it does not change the fact that we are told in the verse that The God made apes and pigs from humans He was angry with
i gave my opinion, and you gave yours - which is to negate mine. i did not claim to have certitude of anything, i just shared my understanding
but you continuously claim i an wrong. and how can you contiiiinuously claim with certitude that i am wrong???
anyways good luck to you as well
peace
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salam jkhan
many translations translate rijz as impure
so...pig of flesh is impure...why? there is a reason no? and i understand it to be because they were made form humans
rijz or impure is not a reason !!! it is a condition !!!
i gave my opinion, you give yours - which is to negate mine
and how can you continuously claim with certitude that i am wrong with???
anyways good luck to you as well
peace
Peace..
Keep calling what you claim but no proof from Quran you will find...@ Everyone...
393 "ALL FOOD was LAWFUL to the Children of Israel except what Israel had made unlawful to himself before the Torah was revealed. Say, , "So bring the Torah and recite it, if you should be truthful "
carefully read above verse.. What does it say?
All food is LAWFUL ... For whome? Children of Israel... When God said all food means all.. Even blood or dead animal or pigs.. Simply all....
God didn't forbid.. But children of Israel forbid themselves..
When actually this happened? BEFORE Torah was revealed... In Torah pigs are mentioned.. -
salam jkhan
all food was lawful ... because maybe pigs did not exist before or during the time of israel ?!! we do not know who israel was nor when he lived
and as per your understanding, so even the dead animal was legal before israel? and even food dedicated to other than The God was legal? blood was legal too? then The God decided to make them unlawful at some point?
perhaps, The God does what He wantsor maybe ALL food meant ALL FOOD that was not initially illegal (ie dead animals, animals not dedicated to The God, swine, blood ...)
AND anyways, forget the restriction
the point is The God says He made apes and swine from humans He was angry with!
the verse is clearanyways take care dude
peace
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salam noon waalqalami
we are told THE apes and THE swine but NOT THE abada
and also abada could perhaps mean and “they worship the taghut”
so perhaps The God made from them THE apes and THE swine and they worship the taghut (devil?)
or The God made from them THE apes and THE swine and worshippers of the taghut (devil?) AND NOT THHHHE worshippers of taghut
no
560 … وغضب and anger علىه on him/said person وجعل and made منهم min'humu/of them القرده the monkeys والخنزىر and the swines وعبد and devotee الطغوت l-taghuta/the false idols …
and made of them the monkeys (non-literal idiom)
and made of them the swines (non-literal idiom)
and made of them devotee the false idols (still people!)561 واذا and when of جاوكم they (see above) come to you قالوا said they of امنا believe we of وقد and assuredly دخلوا enter they of بالكفر in the disbelief…
562 وترى and thou see كثىرا much of منهم min'hum/of them (see above) ىسرعون hastening فى in الاثم the detriment والعدون and the transgression واكلهم and consumption theirs السحت the illicit لبىس surely wretched ما what كانوا be they of ىعملون working
1636 ولقد and surely بعثنا raise we of فى in كل every امه community رسولا messenger of ان that اعبدوا devotes they of الله the god واجتنبوا and avoids they of الطغوت l-taghuta/the false idols فمنهم famin'hum/so of (among) them من who هدى guidance الله the god ومنهم wamin'hum/and of (among) them من who حقت justified علىه on him/said person الضلله the misguidance its فسىروا so travel ye of فى in الارض the land فانظروا so observes ye of كىف how كان be عقبه end المكذبىن the deniers
3917 والذىن and the ones اجتنبوا avoids they of الطغوت l-taghuta/the false idols ان lest ىعبدوها yaʿbuduha/devoted they them …
similar structure …
2173 انما solely حرم prohibit علىكم upon you المىته the lifeless والدم and the blood ولحم and flesh الخنزىر the swine
prohibit upon you the lifeless
prohibit upon you the blood
prohibit upon you flesh the swinecannot be an adjective e.g. flesh the rotten
basic rule if definite noun, definite adjective
examples the flesh (noun) the rotten (adjective)
البىت the house (noun) العتىق the ancient (adjective)peace!
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salam noon waalqalami
no use in debating. you are very adamant about those people being made “like” monkeys and swine, and you are very vehement in your conclusion
anyways, let us assume they were made “like” apes and swine as you say
what does that even mean??? they were made to eat bananas and jump on trees??? or they were made to roll on mud like swine?? and they were made to say “oink oink” (pig noise)?
or you mean they were made to be considered “low” as apes and swine?? what does that mean? how do you classify apes and swine as low?? what does low mean?
think please, think
the verse is very clear. The God is capable of everything, literally. why not believe The God when He clearly says He made apes and swine from transgressors He was angry with?
The God told us He made from the transgressors pigs ans and monkeys, why not believe Him ?!! and why do you start interpreting the verse??
peace and good luck
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366 "Here you are - those who have argued about that of which you have knowledge, but why do you argue about that of which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows, while you know not"
Peace everyone..
I don't blame NW And TF.. All I can say is you will never get evidence on things God has not given enough knowledge...
If still both of you feel you have evidence.... That can only be your assumptions...Argue on matters which you have knowledge and don't argue on matters which you have no knowledge...
I debated saying pork was forbidden not coz pigs are human.. Coz I have proof within Quran... But to claim pigs and apes OR monkeys are born from Human and we see them now as pigs and humans one upon a time they were human ... No knowledge..
Last post on this... Thank you.. -
anyways, let us assume they were made “like” apes and swine as you say
what does that even mean???
peace tutti, similar examples...
7176 كمثل like similitude الكلب the dog
7179 اولىك those كالانعم like the cattleThe God told us He made from the transgressors pigs ans and monkeys, why not believe Him ?!! and why do you start interpreting the verse??
min'humu does not mean "from" them literally i.e. no physical features were changed.
352 فلما so to what (when) احس perceived عىسى Isa منهم min'humu/of (about) them الكفر the disbelief
3110 منهم min'humu/of (among) them
512 منهم min'humu/of (among) them
560 ... وجعل and made منهم min'humu/of (about) them ... devotee الطغوت the false idols
961 ومنهم wamin'humu/and of (among) them
1540 منهم min'humu/of (among) them
3313 منهم min'humu/of (among) them
3883 منهم min'humu/of (among) thempeace -- all the best!
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salam jkhan
no one knows the truth except The God and verses are unserstood by whomever The God permits to understand them if He wants to.
so the verse you are quoting applies to you as well when you give your opinion, who told you the others are wrong and you are right???salam noon waalqalami
again, the verses you quote say “LIKE”
like cattle and like dogsThe God does not say He made the transgressor “LIKE” apes and swine !!!
HE says HE MADE apes and swine from/of the transgressors (it doesnt change anything if you translate “minhum” as “of or from”)peace
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peace tutti, it is also written 3119 واقصد and be moderate ...
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/31/vers/19?handschrift=107
https//i.postimg.cc/bYbXTbt3/ch31v16-23.jpg
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Some humans were transformed into apes not the other way around 7166 So when they were insolent about that which they had been forbidden, We said to them, "Be apes, despised."
Brother of ours have done a article about Devolution
https//www.organisedquran.com/devolution
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and adam was created in his image (we know that there are non like The God (plse see verse below) so perhaps in his image meant adam was created as adam and not as part of evolution? or maybe The God is telling us adam has free will? but the angels and djinns have free will i think. animals too. or perhaps The God means the ability to reason? but yet again there are none like The God (i am giving other possibilities because only The God knows the truth))
“The Creator of the heavens and the earth. He hath made for you pairs of yourselves, and of the cattle also pairs, whereby He multiplieth you. NAUGHT IS AS HIS LIKENINESS; and He is the Hearer, the Seer.“ chapter 42 verse 11Salam tutti_frutti,
Just want to comment a bit regarding "Adam was created in His image". That is actually from sahih hadith books and not from Quran.
https//sunnah.com/muslim/53/32
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying
Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created Adam in His image with His length of sixty cubits, and as He created him He told him to greet that group, and that was a party of angels sitting there, and listen to the response that they give him, for it would form his greeting and that of his offspring. He then went away and said Peace be upon you! They (the angels) said May there be peace upon you and the Mercy of Allah, and they made an addition of" Mercy of Allah". So he who would get into Paradise would get in the form of Adam, his length being sixty cubits, then the people who followed him continued to diminish in size up to this day.
And that is blasphemy against God. Furthermore, in Sunnism it is forbidden to punch or kick someone on the face as per sahih hadith below (but I guess majority is not even aware about this as the leaders/shaikhs/ustadz/ulamas conceal this and at the same time the followers don't read sahih hadith books themselves, only know what the leaders/shaikhs/ustadz/ulamas carefully cherry pick).
https//sunnah.com/muslim/45/152
This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Abu Huraira and in the hadith transmitted on the authority of Ibn Hatim Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) is reported to have said
When any one of you fights with his brother, he should avoid his face for Allah created Adam in His own image.
Wassalam,
Ade -
salam ade
ohhhh i reaaally thought i had read it in The Quran (and then for some reaason it just stayed in my mind and i never actually looked for it when i read the Quran)
thank youuu for the clarification
in any case, i am very convinced that there is no “evolution”
thanx
peace
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I have been noticing that a lot of atheists trying to input a interpretation of evolution that it was all natural that made us and trying to remove the Creator. But from my point of view, that interpretation only tells us how we were created, not the cause, in fact a question comes to my mind. What cause this natural event to create us? To me it was Allah/The God (SWTAY)
By the way, i am not against evolution, i wouldn't mind evolution but i have heard of issues that has plauged the evolution science such as fossil records.
Just letting everyone know, i didn't check the previous pages so i apologize if i missed anything important.
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I have been noticing that a lot of atheists trying to input a interpretation of evolution that it was all natural that made us and trying to remove the Creator. But from my point of view, that interpretation only tells us how we were created, not the cause, in fact a question comes to my mind. What cause this natural event to create us? To me it was Allah/The God (SWTAY)
It depends on what one's definition of "The Creator" is.
Evolution or continuously changing is definitely a very natural process and happened to everything in this universe. As long as there is TIME there will be CHANGE and so does the other way around, as long as there is CHANGE there will be TIME. Without change there will be no time and without time there will be no change.
And when one definition of "The Creator" as He who IS.
And He is NOT a 'being' within this universe but the opposite; this universe is a (very small) part of Him.
Then the term "Nature" or "Natural" with "The creator" is actually a synonym, merely an alias.
Law of "The Creator" is the law of nature or the law of nature is the law of "The Creator".Thus the statement that evolution happened naturally does NOT actually 'removing' the creator but supports it.
Evolution happened within The Creator and Evolution happened in accordance to the law of The Creator.Thus labeling people as "Atheist" or any other names / stereotype does not really help.
Many of the so-called "Atheist" are those with "Judaeic influenced" cultural background, such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam where they view their God as a kind of "being" who lived and situated within this universe and not the other way around. (This universe situated inside the God)
That's why their God can get angry, pissed off, demand obedience (as he has no control of it), punished and torture those who disobeyed (like a tyrant), demand offerings (it seems he's not self-fulfilled), demand praise and rituals to honor him (very very insecure and lack of confidence).
If one definition of God as "a being inside this universe", then I might fit the label of "Atheist" as well, as I don't believe in such definition of God.
Judaeic influenced tradition also have a very weird mythology about the creation of human, so this being-like God created human by first creating a lump of clay and then blow his breath and tadaaaa! a human is created!
That's also why they label this first human as Adam, which in their language it mean "soil" or "clay".To make the myth much weirder, this first human then disobey this being-like God by eating a fruit!
Which caused this being-like God to be pissed off at this first human.
In defense, this first human said that he ate the fruit because he was tricked by the enemy of this being-like God!So it seems their God has an 'enemy' as well, his enemy is also another being-like God then..
At this stage we can also start to see the inconsistency in their myth, they claim that there's only one God but this God has an enemy! So at least there's two being-like Gods now who are in conflict with each others.To make the myth more inconsistent, there's another branch of the story which tried to explain the origin of this God's enemy being.. they say after the being-like God created human he asked everyone to bow to the first human and one being refused to do so. Again the being-like God got pissed off and cursed this one being to be his enemy.
Honestly I think their origin myth is one messed up and inconsistent story..
And definitely they don't have any small shred of hard evidence to support their human-origin myth...By the way, i am not against evolution, i wouldn't mind evolution but i have heard of issues that has plauged the evolution science such as fossil records.
Like mentioned above, continuously changing is the nature of everything in this universe.
So what one think or attitude about it doesn't matter.
As this universe will continue to change as it's the nature of this universe.
Regardless of one believe or attitude about it.Fossil records are evidence of such continous change, within the context of carbon based life form inside this planet.
It help to pinpoint which changes happened at which point in time.Human now try to came up with a kind of time line that described what kind of change happened at which point in time, in this continous changing of carbon based life form inside this planet.
Such task is hard due to the massive scale of changes happened at massive scale of time (millions of years).
That scale of time is massive, in the perspective of human, given human can only live at 100-120 years max.That's why the 'proposed time-line' is continously being revised as well, as more fossil evidence being found to act as an evidence to build this time line of continous changes within carbon based life form inside this planet.
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@ Tuti fruiti...
Salam..
Have you found out why God has only mentioned to Apes/ Monkeys as Despicable while not for Pigs... While I was reading now particular verse i remembered this topic... Here Rijsz (defilement) was in fact SENT DOWN.. If anyone read following and preceding verses you will know it is related to the stories of apes ..
259 But those who did wrong changed the word from that which had been told to them for another, so We sent upon the wrong-doers Rijzan (a defilement /impurity) from the heaven because of their rebelling against Allah's Obedience.
Point is... God forbidden flesh of pig... And directly called the reason saying it is Rijsz..
I read you threads again today... Do you try to say that God turned human as despicable looking apes (not literally apes) but with all despicable features... But God turned others into pigs literally.. So.. Thats why flesh of pig is forbidden stating Rijsz while apes are not forbidden coz they are not rijsz coz they are normal animals.. But what happen to those human in fact is they became like apes nature despicable. So they went into deep jungles of Africa and lived a tribal life... Is that your understanding...This particular verse 259 is bit strange for me.. RIJSZ sent down.. I first time see for the word Rijsz sucj a meaning..
In case you still in forum.. Pls answer.. In sha Allah...
Thank you
