a confused soul.
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i had always asked questions abt salaat to my elders and other peers..
why do we point our index finger in tashhud ?
why do we have to say assalamu alaikum on finishing prayer ? to whom ?
why do we do so many things that we have no idea about..
why do we have qada prayers ?
why do we have sunnah prayers ?after reading thru the articles here and from other sources, i have a different picture abt these...
but still... i dont think nobody has come to a conclusion about what they think. there are still too many different views about 'salaat' and 'zakaat' right ? from aidid safars to shabbir's to others...
what i do now is to continue doing the 5 times prayer, and sincerely praying to Allah to guide me to the straight path if i am wrong.
i am interested to know what you people do ?
regards,
truth-seeker -
Peace be upon you,
The conclusion I have come to is as follows.
Salaat = learning process
It is the process by which we plant seeds in our minds, either you do the planting or someone else will plant thier own seeds in your mind, which is why we are told to guard our salaat.
Salaat does not mean "prayer/calling the God" because the word used for that is "Du'a".
We are to recite the God's signs at "dawn" and "dusk", meaning that when we awaken and when we get ready to go to sleep.
By doing so, we can remember the God all throughout the day because we have recited His signs day and night and purified our minds(nafs) with His message.
Salaat has noting to do with;
why do we point our index finger in tashhud ?
why do we have to say assalamu alaikum on finishing prayer ? to whom ?
why do we do so many things that we have no idea about..
why do we have qada prayers ?
why do we have sunnah prayers ?Please take a look at the section I wrote on here called "The human and the process of rememberance" for more on my understanding.
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i had always asked questions abt salaat to my elders and other peers..
why do we point our index finger in tashhud ?
why do we have to say assalamu alaikum on finishing prayer ? to whom ?
why do we do so many things that we have no idea about..
why do we have qada prayers ?
why do we have sunnah prayers ?after reading thru the articles here and from other sources, i have a different picture abt these...
but still... i dont think nobody has come to a conclusion about what they think. there are still too many different views about 'salaat' and 'zakaat' right ? from aidid safars to shabbir's to others...
what i do now is to continue doing the 5 times prayer, and sincerely praying to Allah to guide me to the straight path if i am wrong.
i am interested to know what you people do ?
regards,
truth-seekercontinue making your salat. The issue of salat is some what pointless, because many issues and fact are deliberately deny in order to change the concept of salat. Slat is a Contact paryer said five times a day to keep human awareness and link with their Creator, Allah The Greatest.
after reading thru the articles here and from other sources, i have a different picture abt these...
If you exmanine all the different position of salat not being this or being that, you will notice that deliberately deny and overlook either historical facts, scripture confirmation, and koran proof. Many things as baliantly overlook so they can entertain their thought on "what salat should be"
There is no such thing as sunnah prayer, qada prayer, or what ever, There is only five daily salat.
i had always asked questions abt salaat to my elders and other peers..
i have asked similar question however, what i learn is that the movements is salat are symbolic gesture GOD himself link to submission and worship. The movements of salat evolve since Abraham.
why do we have to say assalamu alaikum on finishing prayer ? to whom ?
GOD tells us that there are two angels constantly to the right and left of us. We greet them in peace after our salat (5017). Personally, it remind us and keep us aware of our environment, the things we are visual aware of and the things we are not.
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Peace be upon you SHM,
Show us the five times in the reading(quran).
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salaam all,
thanks for the responses.. but still..is it not true that salat takes different meanings throughout its usage in quran ? then can we come to a conclusion that it is "a learning process" or "ritual prayer".. if it is a symabolic process to link to God, then how do we know the details of doing it. the moment we start to have salat as ritual prayer, i m afraid, i am doing things which i still dont have any knowledge of. or there are answers but again, answers leading to different directions.. some say recitation of qunoot is essential, others say not. (just an example)..
regards,
truth.seeker -
Peace be upon you Truth Seeker,
thanks for the responses.. but still..is it not true that salat takes different meanings throughout its usage in quran ?
I do not see any instance where salaat does not mean process of learning.
Although words can mean more than one thing, the God did not make any crookedness in this message. He has used words consistently so we do not have to guess.
then can we come to a conclusion that it is "a learning process" or "ritual prayer"..
Exactly, only by consistency of definition can we come to a conclusion.
if it is a symabolic process to link to God, then how do we know the details of doing it. the moment we start to have salat as ritual prayer, i m afraid, i am doing things which i still dont have any knowledge of. or there are answers but again, answers leading to different directions.. some say recitation of qunoot is essential, others say not. (just an example)..
The God has given us all the details we need. Lets start with you showing what the reading(quran) says to you regarding the conceot of salaat. There is a section here listing all of the verses of salaat so you can gather a better understanding.
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salaam all,
thanks for the responses.. but still..is it not true that salat takes different meanings throughout its usage in quran ? then can we come to a conclusion that it is "a learning process" or "ritual prayer".. if it is a symabolic process to link to God, then how do we know the details of doing it. the moment we start to have salat as ritual prayer, i m afraid, i am doing things which i still dont have any knowledge of. or there are answers but again, answers leading to different directions.. some say recitation of qunoot is essential, others say not. (just an example)..
regards,
truth.seekerdo question and here are good answers
thanks for the responses.. but still..is it not true that salat takes different meanings throughout its usage in quran ?the change in meaning is base on context. salat/solaa mean many things and the first of the hiearchy is "prayer'. However, 'prayer' doesnt fit that context all the time, so a better more suitable word like 'encourage' is used.
then can we come to a conclusion that it is "a learning process" or "ritual prayer"..
conclusion are made on facts. We study not just the koran but all information to develop a conclusion. Salat, contact prayer, is base on ALL these sources of information.
if it is a symabolic process to link to God, then how do we know the details of doing it.
salat detail are link in the koran, bow and prostrate are all link in the Koran is movements of submission and worship (2277). And it is clear the al-fitiah is a prayer, the only one in the Koran. the extra details of salat that are not mention in the koran doesnot qualify people to eliminate the definiont of salat. it is like says, because GOD didnt show all the details of dress in the koran, we should then change what 'dress' mean. this is illogical.
the moment we start to have salat as ritual prayer, i m afraid, i am doing things which i still dont have any knowledge of.
but ther are many thing in the koran that are ritual. wasing before with observe salat, greeting believers/people in 'Sslaams', fasting, etc etc. All these are ritual by defintion. The term ritual has been given a bad name by PM. Yet they deny that many things in the koran are indeed rituals. Satan loves to "kick-up" dust around something very benefical to make people aviod it.
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Peace be upon you SHM,
Show us the five times in the reading(quran).
i can be we will simply argument intrepretation
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Peace be upon you SHM,
the change in meaning is base on context. salat/solaa mean many things and the first of the hiearchy is "prayer'. However, 'prayer' doesnt fit that context all the time, so a better more suitable word like 'encourage' is used.
The wrong understanding ALWAYS gets rejected by one or more verses, that does not mean we just use selective translating. It means we have to find the correct understanding. Du'a means prayer in the reading(quran).
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then can we come to a conclusion that it is "a learning process" or "ritual prayer"..conclusion are made on facts. We study not just the koran but all information to develop a conclusion. Salat, contact prayer, is base on ALL these sources of information.
I notice you did not give Truth Seeker any evidence to back up what you said, all though there is "ALL these sources" at your disposal.
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if it is a symabolic process to link to God, then how do we know the details of doing it.salat detail are link in the koran, bow and prostrate are all link in the Koran is movements of submission and worship (2277).
We are to SERVE the God, not Worship.
And it is clear the al-fitiah is a prayer, the only one in the Koran.
Brother, you really need to do more study. Truth Seeker is looking for help, not more confusion. Here is another "prayer" so that you will discontinue saying "only prayer".
(2286) ..."Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith."
the extra details of salat that are not mention in the koran doesnot qualify people to eliminate the definiont of salat. it is like says, because GOD didnt show all the details of dress in the koran, we should then change what 'dress' mean. this is illogical.
What details, that are not mentioned, would you be looking for? You must have a pre concieved idea already in your mind, or else you wouldnt even be discussing details that are not there. THAT is illogical.
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the moment we start to have salat as ritual prayer, i m afraid, i am doing things which i still dont have any knowledge of.but ther are many thing in the koran that are ritual. wasing before with observe salat, greeting believers/people in 'Sslaams', fasting, etc etc. All these are ritual by defintion. The term ritual has been given a bad name by PM. Yet they deny that many things in the koran are indeed rituals. Satan loves to "kick-up" dust around something very benefical to make people aviod it.
I agree that there is nothing wrong with "rituals". Discipline involves rituals. But the point here is that there is no evidence for this getting on the ground and making certain movements with your body when your body already submits, it is the mind(nafs) that needs to submit.
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Peace be upon you,
idolfree1 wrote
Peace be upon you SHM,Show us the five times in the reading(quran).
i can be we will simply argument intrepretation
Lets give it a try.
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Peace be upon you Truth Seeker,
I agree with Wakas, please take your time and study this in detail. Even if all of here gave yo the same answer, it is up to you to study it for yourself. Just make sure you remove the pre concieved ideas from your mind, or you will be stuck in the tradition we all have been taught incorrectly.
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Peace be upon you Wakas,
Good link there brother.
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salaam all,
thanks or the link. i will study it.
may Allah guide us all to the straigt path.
regards,
truth.seeker -
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Peace be upon you Zenje,
Couldn't you have fixed my spelling lol
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The wrong understanding ALWAYS gets rejected by one or more verses, that does not mean we just use selective translating. It means we have to find the correct understanding. Du'a means prayer in the reading(quran).
common sense tells you the words change meaning in context. solaa as a word changes meaning. it doesnt have one fix meaning all the time. the are many other words in the koran that are similar to this.
I notice you did not give Truth Seeker any evidence to back up what you said, all though there is "ALL these sources" at your disposal.
he didnt ask. plus i hinted to it in an early post. please remember you and other like you bliantly deny any kind of information outside the koran as valuable. it is pointless to point it out you you.
We are to SERVE the God, not Worship.
it is simply misplacing value on a word. to worship is to serve by definition. it is the same argument with ritual. Yet the word applies to many things. worship is serve and serve is worship.
Brother, you really need to do more study. Truth Seeker is looking for help, not more confusion. Here is another "prayer" so that you will discontinue saying "only prayer".
you are right. there is many of prayer with the koran, however, the location of 'al fitiah' indecates it importance.
What details, that are not mentioned, would you be looking for? You must have a pre concieved idea already in your mind, or else you wouldnt even be discussing details that are not there. THAT is illogical.
i had this argument with a member call "preist". So i will ask you the same question. As far as clothing details, can you tell me if it wrong for a man to wear short pants alone in public? His privates are cover yet is chest, arms, and legs are exposed. Show me base on the Koran that such an outfit is wrong.
You will soon learn that many 'details' of modesty are base on society and not the koran, the details for it was deliberate overlooked. Yet the argument for absence of detail in salat is use againts it, this is illogical.I agree that there is nothing wrong with "rituals". Discipline involves rituals. But the point here is that there is no evidence for this getting on the ground and making certain movements with your body when your body already submits, it is the mind(nafs) that needs to submit.
the evidence is this - GOD links such movements to worship and submission. The body is simply a vechile of our decisions. A car submits, yet it is the driver you directes it to kill someone or save them.
The brain submit and is not the nafs (soul). Why? The soul is taken at death (3942) not the brain. i can scientifical prove this. Look at a dead body, isnt the brain till there?
a member once said that GOD doesnt want us to repeat a prayer. yet when you examine human physicology, you learn that repitition is a very successful way of remember and recontaining information. That is why GOD use repitition within the Koran as well.
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Peace be upon you SHM,
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The wrong understanding ALWAYS gets rejected by one or more verses, that does not mean we just use selective translating. It means we have to find the correct understanding. Du'a means prayer in the reading(quran).common sense tells you the words change meaning in context. solaa as a word changes meaning. it doesnt have one fix meaning all the time. the are many other words in the koran that are similar to this.
All of the contexts agree with learning process.
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I notice you did not give Truth Seeker any evidence to back up what you said, all though there is "ALL these sources" at your disposal.he didnt ask. plus i hinted to it in an early post. please remember you and other like you bliantly deny any kind of information outside the koran as valuable. it is pointless to point it out you you.
The above statement verifies that you don't even know my understanding of the word "quran" which I have shared with you many times.
"quran" means reading, andy truthful reading (non contradictory) is from the God. So all you need to do is to bring me some non contradicting information which i can verify, and I will accept it. For example, if you tell me that if I place water at 32 degrees, it will freeze, I will accept that.
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We are to SERVE the God, not Worship.
it is simply misplacing value on a word. to worship is to serve by definition. it is the same argument with ritual. Yet the word applies to many things. worship is serve and serve is worship.
Not true. Do they call the armed forces the "worship" or the "service"? You should ponder during the night on these things.
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Brother, you really need to do more study. Truth Seeker is looking for help, not more confusion. Here is another "prayer" so that you will discontinue saying "only prayer".you are right. there is many of prayer with the koran, however, the location of 'al fitiah' indecates it importance.
I do not see how that is sufficient evidence for you, I can only respect your decision to "feel" that way.
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What details, that are not mentioned, would you be looking for? You must have a pre concieved idea already in your mind, or else you wouldnt even be discussing details that are not there. THAT is illogical.i had this argument with a member call "preist". So i will ask you the same question. As far as clothing details, can you tell me if it wrong for a man to wear short pants alone in public? His privates are cover yet is chest, arms, and legs are exposed. Show me base on the Koran that such an outfit is wrong.
There is no base that such an outfit is wrong, but if we look at the most important verse regarding dress, it is addressed to ALL the children of Adam
"O children of Adam, we have provided you with garments to cover your bodies, as well as for luxury. But the best garment is the garment of righteousness. These are some of The GOD's signs, that they may take heed."
You will soon learn that many 'details' of modesty are base on society and not the koran, the details for it was deliberate overlooked.
Modesty is based on the Truth, which includes more than just one book. This reading(quran) is not the goal, it is a sign pointing to the goal. The cause and effect situations of life (rape/fornication, etc), will show us the path we should follow. This reading (quran) is oly a tool to get us there faster, without the long trial and error.
Yet the argument for absence of detail in salat is use againts it, this is illogical.
You still don't understand my point. When one reads abour salaat, they start to look for details. So they see verses regarding speech, and tone, and reading, they see NOTHING about getting on the ground 5 times a day, yet they continue to search for something that should not even be in thier minds.
Try not thinking about anything you learned regarding salaat, then try to look for deatials in THIS reading(quran). They are there. There is no reason that one should be looking for the traditional method, NOTHING in the reading points us in this direction.
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I agree that there is nothing wrong with "rituals". Discipline involves rituals. But the point here is that there is no evidence for this getting on the ground and making certain movements with your body when your body already submits, it is the mind(nafs) that needs to submit.
the evidence is this - GOD links such movements to worship and submission.
Show me the verse. Please.
The body is simply a vechile of our decisions. A car submits, yet it is the driver you directes it to kill someone or save them.
The brain submit and is not the nafs (soul). Why? The soul is taken at death (3942) not the brain. i can scientifical prove this. Look at a dead body, isnt the brain till there?
I said the MIND(nafs), not the brain which is a physical organ.
a member once said that GOD doesnt want us to repeat a prayer. yet when you examine human physicology, you learn that repitition is a very successful way of remember and recontaining information. That is why GOD use repitition within the Koran as well.
Its intersting that you agree with science, but when I tell you that salaat is the learning process which uses the method of reading THIS reading(quran) in the morning and evening (repitition), you come back with some traditional bowing to the ground which has no verification in the God's Message.
