Jinn: What's the point of mentioning them in the Qur'an at all?
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Hello everyone,
I've read, as I'm sure many of you have as well, many theories about what or who these beings called Jinn are. However, none, in my opinion, fully satisfy or explain the Quranic depiction of what these beings are.I don?t speak Arabic, but from what I?ve read about the subject, the use of the word ?Jinn? in the Quran is associated with something that is concealed, covered with darkness, concealed from man?s senses, rarely seen things, beings that conceal?, etc. From this we can conclude that, although they may not necessarily be invisible, these beings are rarely seen by humans or humans don?t interact with them on a regular basis (as they do with animals, for instance). Prophet Solomon (pbuh) being an exception, of course. I certainly have never seen one that I?m aware of . Furthermore, judging by verse 726, ?Human beings used to seek power through jinn beings, but they only afflicted them with a lot of adversity.? we can conclude that it?s probably best for humans not to interact with them since they seem to be more powerful than us and can lead us astray.
So if we have no business, so to speak, with these beings and are encouraged not to contact them, then why do you think God choose to mention them to us in the Quran to begin with? Why not send a different book or whatever guidance they need directly to them? Why even let us know that they exist yet tell so little about who they are or what?s their relation to us? If they?re mentioned in the Quran, we certainly shouldn't ignore them, but what are we to do with them?
I'm interested in hearing your thoughts. )
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Peace,
According to some, Jinns = desert nomads. Inns = urban dwellers. Therefore the Jinns in regards to Solomon are those "wild tribes" not related to him and his people. Similar things can be said about the ant and the hoopoe. Back this those days, tribes had names of birds and other creatures of nature.
Peace
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Peace,
According to some, Jinns = desert nomads. Inns = urban dwellers. Therefore the Jinns in regards to Solomon are those "wild tribes" not related to him and his people. Similar things can be said about the ant and the hoopoe. Back this those days, tribes had names of birds and other creatures of nature.
Peace
Peace to you as well!
Yes, i've read that theory too... another similar to that is that the word Jinn might be referring to Gentiles since the word Gentiles stems from a Latin word "gen" meaning "of the same family or clan." And that makes sense to a point, but remember Satan was "of the Jinn", as the Quran states, and they were created from fire while humans were created from clay (see 3876). In other words, these beings are obviously not human.
They also seem to be more powerful than humans, see verse in my original post. Again, pointing to the fact that they are not human.
Lastly, if they were desert nomads or urban dwellers, why does the Quran continuously refer to them as "humans and the jinn"-- it's like saying "humans and the nomads", aren't the nomads human? -
Peace HS,
According to Dr Shabbir he states that the fire is the "fiery emotions" of the human being, their selfishness. It is the Satan (human's innder desires/selfishness/etc.) that separates man from God. The Qur'an even calls people Satans or "friends of Satan" since they try to disrupt peace.
Seems like you might have read that translation already, but if not, you can check it out at ourbeacon.com
You have to remember that God states in the Quran (Shabbir translation)
37 (The Book He has sent down, bears an important Principle.) He is the One Who has
revealed to you (O Prophet) the scripture. In it some verses are literal, while some
verses are allegorical. The verses that pertain to Permanent Values have been
presented literally. These verses, Muhkamat, are the essence of the Divine law.
But abstract phenomena, some historical events, and the World of the Unseen
are described in similes, metaphors and allegories (Mutashaabihaat) for your
understanding. But those who are given to crookedness in their hearts pursue
the allegories and try to give them literal meanings, thus creating dissension of
thought. None encompasses their final meaning (of such as the Essence of God,
His Throne, His Hand, His Book of Decrees, the exact mode of revelation on the
heart of the Messengers, the Eternity) but God. Those who are well founded in
knowledge understand why the allegories have been used and they keep learning
from them. They proclaim the belief that the entire Book is from their Lord. As
the human knowledge evolves, more and more allegories will unfold their literal
meaning. But only the men and women of understanding will bear this fact
in mind.Peace
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According to Dr Shabbir he states that the fire is the "fiery emotions" of the human being, their selfishness. It is the Satan (human's innder desires/selfishness/etc.) that separates man from God. The Qur'an even calls people Satans or "friends of Satan" since they try to disrupt peace.
OK, let's assume Dr. Shabbir is right, so Jinn is just referring to our "fiery emotions" and those of us who get overpowered by them will eventually be sent to hell, correct? But then how do you explain when God's says in 11119, ?I will fill Hell with the Jinn and the people together!?... In this verse, the jinn= people with fiery emotions.... BUT what abou the people= ?? Clearly there are two parties with which God will fill hell with.
Additionally, Solomon, we're told, had "armies of Jinn" working for him. How would you interpret that in terms of Dr. Shabbir's definition of what Jinn are? -
Peace HS,
Here is the translation of that verse
11119 Except those on whom your Lord will bestow His grace (for working toward the noble
objective of unity). And for this He created them. Those who defy (this command)
will fulfill the Word of your Lord, ?Surely, I shall fill Hell with the nomad
and urban mankind all together.?Now I don't speak Arabic, so I am not an authority on this matter. However, Dr. Shabbir has studied and lived with the Quraish, the dialect of the Prophet (PBUH), and using the Quran to explain itself rather than from outside sources, I would take his translation highly above some other ones. The transliteration of the verse is this
'Ill Man Raima Rabbuka Wa Lidhalika Khalaqahum Wa Tammat Kalimatu Rabbika La'amla'anna Jahannama Mina Al-Jinnati Wa An-Nsi 'Ajma`na
Now I don't see Jinns & Inns but I see Jinns & Nas, or the self. I could guess that it means the selfish desires (Satan) as well as the self (or the person) would be in the hell, but Dr Shabbir says nomad and urban dwellers. So if someone could clarify it, that would be great.
Also, some words have different meanings depending on the sentence structure. Again I don't read Arabic so hopefully someone can clarify on this issue (the ones that don't believe in a Jinn as a physical being of course).
For Solomon, the Jinns are nomads or other tribes that don't belong to his tribe.
Peace
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So you're saying that the word Jinn may have different meanings throughout the Quran?
In one place it may mean "selfish desires", in another "nomad tribes", yet in another something else...etc.Either that, or the meanings our scholars have come up with so far are incorrect because they do NOT satisfy (consistently) every depiction of the Jinn in the Qur'an.
So i wonder if we don't and can't know what they are for sure, why bother mentioning them in the Qur'an at all?
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Peace HS,
To be honest, we really can't say anything as we do not speak or understand Arabic, let alone the dialect of the Prophet (PBUH). Remember, God is our teacher, not scholars. We will all answer to God for ourselves.
But I believe that questioning is always good as God states never to take things at face value but to use or intellect and reasoning.
Peace
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Salam,
About the Jinns, there is a good news and a bad news.
Good news - It has absolutely nothing to do with my way of life, let them be plain humans or demons.
Bad news- There is this need to explain things, that makes you restless untill you know what they are.
I had this same question in mind, why bother at all . Unless there is something to learn from it .
The main problem is that for thousand of year now the Islamic world is running backwards. Instead of picking up the pen and decoding the unknown, we chose to chant things like "Tasbih e Fatimah" inorder to hack Allah's judgement and gain some extra points to enter Jannah. A person that calls himself muslim should look forward to becoming the best, instead we became the least respected in modern times in the field of Science and Technology. The so called "kuffars" outsmarted the people of the Islamic faith. Allah surely replaces us with a better generation if we dont listen, doesnt He ?
I am waiting till Raggin-Taggin shows up with his Hypothesis that says that Jinns are Neanderthals !!! I read through some of his posts, they are nice. Lets see where Allah leads us. We wont drop the pen till we find answers, that is one of the way Allah gives us knowledge. God willing, we will even be able to investigate into the genese of the Jinns.
PEACE
---------------------------------- Student of Allah -
The main problem is that for thousand of year now the Islamic world is running backwards. Instead of picking up the pen and decoding the unknown, we chose to chant things like "Tasbih e Fatimah" inorder to hack Allah's judgement and gain some extra points to enter Jannah. A person that calls himself muslim should look forward to becoming the best, instead we became the least respected in modern times in the field of Science and Technology. The so called "kuffars" outsmarted the people of the Islamic faith. Allah surely replaces us with a better generation if we dont listen, doesnt He ?
Islam is not a political entity,
Those who stay true to His commandments and be a muslim / submissive to His will shall have better progress in this world. Because God shall enlightened them and grant them wisdom. Whomever they are.
As thus the statement of "Islamic world is running backwards" is a fallacy, a more appropriate statement should be Middle eastern world is running backwards because they fell into dogmatic sectarian culture...
I am waiting till Raggin-Taggin shows up with his Hypothesis that says that Jinns are Neanderthals !!! I read through some of his posts, they are nice. Lets see where Allah leads us. We wont drop the pen till we find answers, that is one of the way Allah gives us knowledge. God willing, we will even be able to investigate into the genese of the Jinns.
In my opinion the "jinns' are gas/fluid based sentient being who lived here on earth among us. (hint Smokeless fire, look around you where you can see smokeless fire, it's up there, the sun, and the sun is one huge ball of gas, mostly of hydrogen)
The 'jinns' true nature are not (yet) revealed to human, perhaps for good reasons..
Imagine what will happen then... human shall enslaved them.. hunt them towards extinction.... look what happened to the whale, lions, rhinos and other 'endangered' species!
For the sake of the 'jinns' it's much better that they remained 'concealed' (from human)Salam / Peace
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Salam,
As thus the statement of "Islamic world is running backwards" is a fallacy, a more appropriate statement should be Middle eastern world is running backwards because they fell into dogmatic sectarian culture...
Hmm, some words of wisdom there. Yes, you are kind of right and your sentence is more closer to the truth than mine. bravo
However, the reason I chose a broader generalized term is because, if you look at Indonesia and Bangladesh alone, you have more than 300million muslims, just in those 2 NON-middle eastern countries. As for me, it all comes back to Hadith-based world...lol, not Islamic, neither middle-eastern.
Allah knows what Jinns are, but I am kind a looking forward to decoding that with Allah's permission
PEACE
--------------------- Student of Allah
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Good news - It has absolutely nothing to do with my way of life, let them be plain humans or demons.
---------------------------------- Student of AllahStudent of Allah, I feel the same way--they have NOTHING to do with my way of life either and i think majority of people would say the same. And that's exactly why i was wondering, why even introduce the subject in the Qur'an if these beings have nothing to do with us? There must be some other reason/significance for them that we're not seeing at the moment. My question is, what is this significance?
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Peace all,
From a previous discussion WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE OTHER THAN...HOMO SAPIEN SAPIEN
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8469.msg41678;topicseen#msg41678
In 6131, the word used is "al-ins" which is the singular form of "an-nass" present in 2273, with the help of the verse 1146, we can see this clearly.
Please note that "ins" is different from "insaane", and "jin" is different from "jaan" (as in 1527). My view is that "ins" and "jin" are two psychological aspects of the humans "bashar", some humans are more enclined to the aspect "ins" thus called "insaane", the others are more enclined to the "jin" aspect and thus called "jaan".
It's hard to distinguish between those words when reading a translation because translators generally translate "ins" "annas" and "insaane" and "bashar" as the same, which is confusing and sometimes leads to contradictions.
In my view,
Insaan refers to an extrovert person that prefers to be in community with other persons, and mixes well in social situations. Insaan comes from root alif-noun-seen, which means to socialise. An-naas is the plural of al-insaane.Jaan refers to an introvert or reserved person that prefers to be away from the crowd (and the eyes). Al-jinnatoo is the the plural of al-jaan.
...
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In my opinion the "jinns' are gas/fluid based sentient being who lived here on earth among us. (hint Smokeless fire, look around you where you can see smokeless fire, it's up there, the sun, and the sun is one huge ball of gas, mostly of hydrogen)
The 'jinns' true nature are not (yet) revealed to human, perhaps for good reasons..
Imagine what will happen then... human shall enslaved them.. hunt them towards extinction.... look what happened to the whale, lions, rhinos and other 'endangered' species!
For the sake of the 'jinns' it's much better that they remained 'concealed' (from human)Jafar, let's assume you are right and they are "gas/fluid based sentient beings" -- how then do you interpret Solomon's as army being made of of Jinn (ch 27)... was it like an army of "ghosts"??? I find that hard to believe.
"The 'jinns' true nature are not (yet) revealed to human" -- it sure was revealed to Solomon and he was human. We see tons of other examples in he Quran where humans interact with them. The people of Solomon's time sure were familiar with them if he had a whole army of Jinn working for him. Were his human soldiers not aware that they were standing next to "gas/fluid based sentient beings"?? They certainly didn't make a bid deal out of it.
And that's what bugs me about this issue. The Quran is full of instances where humans interact with Jinn, Solomon being just one example, so if they are these invisible / spirits / ghost-like entities that are SO RARELY seen by humans, why is it that nobody took note of them? Surely, if we in today's time encountered a society of talking bears or hobbits or elves, naturally we would react to them with fear/interest and somebody would take note of it. This is human nature. But that never happens in the Quran. Nobody reacts to them as they would if they were some kind of ghosts or any other unusual creature. And where are they now, how come nobody sees them anymore?
This is why i don't think we have the correct understanding of what these things are. I believe they are present today as they were at Solomon's age, we just don't know what they are and therefore cannot recognize them.
And i'm not even interested in what they are so much, i'm more concerned with why did God even mention them in the Quran if they have nothing to do with us?? In other words, I'm interested in why do we need to know of them more than what they are.
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Peace all,
From a previous discussion WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE OTHER THAN...HOMO SAPIEN SAPIEN
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8469.msg41678;topicseen#msg41678
In 6131, the word used is "al-ins" which is the singular form of "an-nass" present in 2273, with the help of the verse 1146, we can see this clearly.
Please note that "ins" is different from "insaane", and "jin" is different from "jaan" (as in 1527). My view is that "ins" and "jin" are two psychological aspects of the humans "bashar", some humans are more enclined to the aspect "ins" thus called "insaane", the others are more enclined to the "jin" aspect and thus called "jaan".
It's hard to distinguish between those words when reading a translation because translators generally translate "ins" "annas" and "insaane" and "bashar" as the same, which is confusing and sometimes leads to contradictions.
In my view,
Insaan refers to an extrovert person that prefers to be in community with other persons, and mixes well in social situations. Insaan comes from root alif-noun-seen, which means to socialise. An-naas is the plural of al-insaane.Jaan refers to an introvert or reserved person that prefers to be away from the crowd (and the eyes). Al-jinnatoo is the the plural of al-jaan.
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Truth Seeker,
This is another interesting take on it, but if Jinn are just the type of people who 'keep to themselves'--they're still people/human, why does the Quran say "people and Jinn", "humans and Jinn", "mankind and Jinn" such as, "i will fill hell with mankind and Jinn"? There it implies that Jinn are separate entities from humans/people/mankind, does it not? So Jinn cannot mean a type of human but something other than human.
Again, I don't speak Arabic, if you do, you'd probably be a better judge of what the Quran says and feel free to correct me. ) -
Salaam,
the birth of the family of Adam emerged from Jinn, a Jinn in the modern world is described as a clinical psychopath, a psychopath is born, you cannot become a psychopath only a socio-path if you are of the family of Adam, a psychopath cannot be cured, they remain without higher emotions from birth until death, their mental state is hidden (Jinn) from us, they look and often act just as a man/woman of the family of Adam does.
If two Jinn have offspring they are Jinn, if a Jinn and the family of Adam have offspring they are the family of Adam, naturally 1 in a thousand children from the family of Adam are born Jinn, but the Jinn know what they are, while we the family of Adam remain oblivious, if you have no empathy, conscience or guilt is is easy to rise into position of authority over the family of Adam, so in the modern world 13 families of Jinn rule all the family of Adam, these 13 families inter-marry and maintain the purety of their bloodlines through rituals and secret societies, they perform acts that would expose a member of the family of Adam, but would be no problem to a Jinn.
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Student of Allah, I feel the same way--they have NOTHING to do with my way of life either and i think majority of people would say the same. And that's exactly why i was wondering, why even introduce the subject in the Qur'an if these beings have nothing to do with us? There must be some other reason/significance for them that we're not seeing at the moment. My question is, what is this significance?
Significance to whom? To you or to whatever/whomever the jinns are?
The text is intended to be studied vigorously, in my opinion, if one is up for the challenge. It is by no means a precursor of or to salvation. I don't know about you, but I like a good puzzle, and once you solve it once, what would be the point of returning to it again and again? There'd be no challenge, it'd be boring. I like me a challenge, personally.
As stated previously, one meaning can't 'fit' in all occurrences, logistically.
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However, the reason I chose a broader generalized term is because, if you look at Indonesia and Bangladesh alone, you have more than 300million muslims, just in those 2 NON-middle eastern countries. As for me, it all comes back to Hadith-based world...lol, not Islamic, neither middle-eastern.
Allah knows what Jinns are, but I am kind a looking forward to decoding that with Allah's permission
PEACE
--------------------- Student of Allah
LOL.. very true...
However, I've visited Indonesia, Bali to be exact, and I'm delightfully surprised on the tolerance level of the communities there.. A thriving Hindu communities within sunni's majority country. The sectarians have done a 'lousy' job there.. It's not that they haven't tried (as I heard about some bombings in Bali done by the sunni's extremist).
In Indonesia I see hope for thriving tolerant secular culture within sunni's dominated society... really a role model...
Sectarianism has split India into three countries who hate each other guts (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh) which is saddening. The tension among sects there are quite high..
Salam / Peace
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Jafar, let's assume you are right and they are "gas/fluid based sentient beings" -- how then do you interpret Solomon's as army being made of of Jinn (ch 27)... was it like an army of "ghosts"??? I find that hard to believe.
Apparently it was... an army of 'gas sentient beings'..
"The 'jinns' true nature are not (yet) revealed to human" -- it sure was revealed to Solomon and he was human.
You're right.. it was revealed to Solomon...
Here's the catalog on the species of those 'gas sentient beings'.. although perhaps this is not the complete catalog of all 'gas sentient beings' living on earth..Testament Of Solomon (Although there are doubt whether it is actually Solomon who wrote this)
http//www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/testamen.htm
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testament_of_SolomonWe see tons of other examples in he Quran where humans interact with them. The people of Solomon's time sure were familiar with them if he had a whole army of Jinn working for him. Were his human soldiers not aware that they were standing next to "gas/fluid based sentient beings"?? They certainly didn't make a bid deal out of it.
Perhaps they do aware or not .. we don't know...
And that's what bugs me about this issue. The Quran is full of instances where humans interact with Jinn, Solomon being just one example, so if they are these invisible / spirits / ghost-like entities that are SO RARELY seen by humans, why is it that nobody took note of them?
The notes / record / story of 'interaction with gas/fluid based sentient beings' are everywhere among any cultures in the world in myriad of books. The gospel also contains stories of Jesus performing 'exorcism' and a whole lot more...
Surely, if we in today's time encountered a society of talking bears or hobbits or elves, naturally we would react to them with fear/interest and somebody would take note of it. This is human nature. But that never happens in the Quran. Nobody reacts to them as they would if they were some kind of ghosts or any other unusual creature. And where are they now, how come nobody sees them anymore?
Many people still 'see' them of course...
This is why i don't think we have the correct understanding of what these things are. I believe they are present today as they were at Solomon's age, we just don't know what they are and therefore cannot recognize them.
They are present today.. and you're right we just don't know EXACTLY what they are, perhaps for a good reason..
And i'm not even interested in what they are so much, i'm more concerned with why did God even mention them in the Quran if they have nothing to do with us?? In other words, I'm interested in why do we need to know of them more than what they are.
This one is still a mystery....
Yet the Quran really validate that such 'gas/fluid based sentient beings' does exist...And from the hint found in the Quran (made from smokeless fire), I can hypothesize that such entity which is known by the name of Jinn, Ghost, Gosuto, Gui, Bhuta is infact a 'gas/fluid based sentient beings'.. which show us that not all 'sentient beings' were made of carbon / solid materials..
Perhaps...... there are beings living in other planet who are actually made of gas/fluid as well..
Given... not all planet does have a solid surface.. (i.e. Jupiter and Saturn was made of gas)Again perhaps.. it is told in the Quran because the people back then worship those 'gas/sentient beings' as gods.. that's essentially what 'pagan idol worshiping' culture does.. make an idol (statue made of solid materials) for them and grant them 'offerings', and it's not unusual to offer 'human' as offering for them as well.. a habit known as 'human sacrifice'.
Salam / Peace
