Chapter 2 (verses 51-100)
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Salaams all,
I believe this is a good method of improving the translations .
without any prejuidice to the existing translators,the ayat
265
(is standing out like a sore thumb)........we said to them be ye apes despised(and rejected).........
I think this breaks all scientific rules if indeed we believe the people did change into apes.
Karadun = apes,monkies,baboons.
karada=abject, mean, despicable.Khaseeen =according to arrabic gramar this form is used about rational people.(and this is the word used in the ayat after the word apes)
Khaseh=should have been used if there where any such apes .
............we said to them be ye abject (mean),despised(and rejected)......
Thanks.
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Peace,
........we said to them be ye apes despised(and rejected).........
I think this breaks all scientific rules if indeed we believe the people did change into apes.
............we said to them be ye abject (mean),despised(and rejected)......
It is consistant with 560 and 7166 that the transformation was physical
Say ?Shall I inform you of worse than this as a punishment from God? Those whom God cursed and became angry at them, and He made from them apes and pigs and servants of evil. Those have a worst place and are more astray from the right path.? (560)
Layth
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Salaams layth,
believe me there arn't any monkies and swine in the quranThe Khanzer in 560
means roud /evil/greedy/stuborn/obstinate /stupidly perverse -according to the Quranic Dictionary.
Try these in the verse please .Thanks.
Salaams. -
Peace be upon you,
believe me there arn't any monkies and swine in the quran
What is your understanding of pigs meat regarding food restrictions?
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Salaams idolfree,
Sorry i did put some research meterial on the other topic about pigs and the wording KHANZEER.Sorry ,i don't think pigs are mentioned in the great reading,its all a misunderstanding and mistranslation.
Although i can never eat the pig i think its my programing since my childhood.
Bye.
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Peace be upon you MZ,
Sorry i did put some research meterial on the other topic about pigs and the wording KHANZEER.
Sorry ,i don't think pigs are mentioned in the great reading,its all a misunderstanding and mistranslation.
No need to apologize brother D If its not there , its not there. But what about where we are told that we can have it if we are starving (cant remember the actual wording).
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Salaams idolfree,
if you remember in the topic on pig/swine a little while backKhanz=Bad/stinking/magotty
er=to seeKhanzeer=what you see is bad ,this is according to the Quranic dictionery.
Remember any bad meet can make you sick and even kill you ,that is main reason ,i think, it was forbidden.Allah knows better.
So you arn't supposed to eat anything that is bad ,but in case if its matter of life and death then you are allowed it - to be eaten,i think this is what we spoke about.
pigs eat shit ,but on the other hand chickens eat it as well -the free range ones,so if people think you can't eat pig because it is a flthy animal then there are a lot of other animals in the same boat-i think.
Salaams.
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Salaam
I'm with Mz on this issue. I do not think Khinzir is referring to pigs really, but rather bad/rotten meat. I cannot bring the relevant ayaat together to make it clear, but this is what I see so far. I eat the pig and I'll tell you, they're pretty tasty. Like Mz said, pigs are not the only animals who eat their shit and other dirty things. So I'm not so sure that what pigs eat is a relevant issue to their being forbidden.
Joe
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Salaam
I'm with Mz on this issue. I do not think Khinzir is referring to pigs really, but rather bad/rotten meat. I cannot bring the relevant ayaat together to make it clear, but this is what I see so far. I eat the pig and I'll tell you, they're pretty tasty. Like Mz said, pigs are not the only animals who eat their shit and other dirty things. So I'm not so sure that what pigs eat is a relevant issue to their being forbidden.
Joe
Salaam,
What is the point of an injunction not to eat bad/rotten meat? Who would eat it except out of desperation anyway?
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peace brother Joe,
I assume you have read all the information presented on this topic, thus I assume you must think the following evidence is too weak
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the separation of khanziri into two words is unworkable grammatically (according to Anwar, and I have not seen otherwise)
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the alledged word 'khanz' is not used elswhere in the entire quran
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the alledged word 'ara' is not used elswhere in the entire quran (in the form it appears in khanziri)
Am I right in my assumption?
Wakas
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Salaams waqas,
you should say your not sure or you don't know if its used anywhere in the quran or something like that,I think you can't say its not used anywhere in the quran -i think this is adviced somewhere in the quran ,you may know where as i cant remember off hand.Just to help you a little in you search,i came accross
in a anumber of places in the quran
2246,2258,323 etc.
Didst thou not turn thy vision............(Or didst thou not see......)
ALAM TA-RAI sugest you look how it accurs in the ayat,and it accurs in this fasion in loads of ayats.The letter R is by itself standing as vision/see to my knowledge.
Please i am not convincing anybody i am just putting it here for information purposes.
Salaams.
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Peace,
Salaams layth,
believe me there arn't any monkies and swine in the quranThe Khanzer in 560
means Proud /evil/greedy/stuborn/obstinate /stupidly perverse -according to the Quranic Dictionary.
Try these in the verse please .Thanks.
I must entirely disagree with you on this.
That you would reject "clear" meanings simply because of the argument that it does not conform with scientific knwoledge is totally unnaceptable.
As you are aware, science is a a constant learning process where new concepts and ideas are learned and new possibilities explored (read on the theories in physics regarding space tarvel and worm-hole possibilities)
Rather than denying the Quran to conform to TODAY'S science. I would rather deny today's science to conform to the Quran.
P.S. when looking at physical impossibilities, you forgot the people who slept over 300 years (hybernation) or the man who was preserved for 100 years while all what was around him decomposed...There are many more examples where we still are not even scratching the surface.
Therefore, if God says people became pigs and monkeys, then I say "absolutely".
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Salaams layth,
how ever repugnant it may seem ,this is something taught to us.And there is no way ,to me anyway -that there are monkies and swine in the quran they are there because ,not because allah has put them there BUT ,the translator has put them there ,and 100 years of that person sleeping is again there because of the translator and not because -to me anyway,Allah has broken all his laws so we may hear about something extraordinary.Allah doesn't work like this is what i can see in my life..
Here is an interesting translation if you havn't allready seen it ,might be right as i am only using lanes or the quranic dictionary and not an 11th century monk or the Arabs of that time for the translations - I think.
But by all means correct me , if you reckon i am wrong ,but please note ,i believe it that you and me Will no daught be answering to the Allmighty for what we are explaining.
2259
(original translation)
like the one who passed a town and it tumbled upon its roof how will life be brought to this allah after its death so caused him to die allah a hundred years then he raised him asked how long did you remain dead i remained dead for a day or part of a day he said no you have remained dead for a 100 years look at your food and your drink did not show change and look at your donkey and thus we have made you a sign for the people and look at the bones how we will put them together then will clith them..........
Maat =he became deprived of the intellectual faculty,ignorant.
Maitun = one who has not diedbut is near to dying/or absorbed in grief.
Amatahoo=he caused him to sleep
Aaminn=One who does not see his road or a clear way
Aminn=Blind of both eyes,blind in respect of the mind,erring or one who errs.Uzaamun =very gret,esteemed grest
Nanshazahaa=we will set together(set up)
Naks-haa=will turn upside down
Naksoo-haa=they will be made to hang their heads inshame
Lahman=Giving glances.
Yaumun=Night or day - time.New translation
Like the one who had passed a town and it had tumbled upon its roof he said how will life be brought back to this town allah after its death so allah caused him to to be ignorant ,lost his reasoning , blind then he raised him and asked how long did you remain he said i remained a day or part of a day he said no you had lost your reasoning and was Blind look at your food and your drink not show any change and look at your donkey and thus we have made you a sign for the people and look at the very very great how we will set them up then will be made to hang (their heads) in shame ,(ruined) giving glances.....The entire quran made sense-i believe.
Thanks.
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Peace Mz,
Your translations follow this scheme, you see a word for example "donkey"
and you don't say its an animal, but you say "donkey" is made from "done" + "key" and it means he manufactured/made/produced a key and therefore you go far away from the correct meaning.Languages are not analyzed this way. Some sense of linguistics would help!
Best regards,
sabo -
Thanks Sabo,BUT,
I think you don't follow,because i am not a lingustic but if you care to check out linguastics such as Quranic Dictionary or may be lanes aswell then more then likely you will be surprised from what they say,and this
method of Anelysis or synthasis of words is followed mainly,i have seen by The Quranic Dictionary and as i said and may be lanes aswell,but i think so.Unfortunately this method of joining two or more words to get a new word isn't just confined to arabic but other lingo's as well.
superman = super +man
bookcase = book +case
superhuman
superfine
postboy
sunrise
SUNSET
so many more.I hope this helps,
Salaams. -
Peace MZ,
I also use dictionaries, but unfortunately you look up the wrong words.
There is for example no word in arabic called "YR" (رas the last 2 arabic letters of "khanzeer" (ر . The word for to see (yara ى is written similar but not the same.
Similarly the word AAam , and aAAma are written similarly and share some common letters, but are not the same. The first is a year, and the second is blind.
That's why some linguistics may help. I am not saying that you have to be linguist, but the minimum amount of knowledge is to know how are words written. (S P E L L I N G)
The way you present your translations show that you look up transliterations and not original arabic script, because you are confused about letters and you are looking up the wrong words which are looking similar.
an example in english words like sense and since are sounding very similar and if you make a transliteration to these words using arabic letters, they would look identical (س. Imagine an arab analysing english words written in arabic, he would come to totally different conclusions because he thinks sense = since , which is not true of course. The same is exactly your case.
I hope that helps.
Best regards,
sabo -
Salaams sabo,
you are not using The quranic Dictionary?
see page 166 if you can for this word and others in the right places.
Salaams.
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Salaam MZ,
2246,2258,323 etc.
I see that you are still confused. The word "" can not mean to see, except if it preceeded with a tool to ommit the vowel at the end, like "lam" or "lan" , etc.. (see 2130 or 3677 and a bit of arabic grammar would help u eleminate this confusion)
and in all cases the verb is not following the object, but the object is following the verb. In your case it would be yara khanz, and not the opposite.
It is an expected result, that you confuse things, and arrive to weird conclusions, when you have no knowledge about the language, which you are tranlating from.
Can you tell me, what is the word for "monkey" in arabic?
God bless
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Its funny ,people can imagine to be so advanced,and nulify otherpeoples information - fortunately ,i rather go along with something ,or someone like the writers of the quranic dictionary and lanes ,rather then with sabos findings or thought.Thanks for that.
