Alcohol

Mazhar

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Where does Intoxicants/hard drinks fall?

unknownuser

That is the debate good sir. This is actually a really complex topic, or is it? That is my question. Because ALLAH does not explicitly says anything, he states the statistics (ithm>naf) and asks who will then mind.

So the question is, who will mind?

There is no question that hard intoxication is harmful. You do not publicly go to the toilet, you do not publicly have sex, then why publicly stumble around drunk?

However for all of these is a time and place, toilets exist, marriages exist, then surely there is a place for sakara/khamr.

We must however avoid the fallacy of equivocation, something I see coming up time and time again. Where ALLAH has delineated X to be relative to Y via Z, do not equate X with Y and leave out Z. This is also a tool of satan and I can clearly see why it says avoid him. Even when arguing for what you believe to be righteous, if you so fall to this fallacy you have fallen for his tricks. Why run away from satan's booby trap to fall into another one?

May God guide!

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

Peace dudes,

This topic is very interesting one. How come noone ever argues about the meat of pig, but anytime when the alcool comes up, the debate heats?

The reason is divinely simple. The meat of pig is clearly forbidden in the Scripture.

Whereas the alcohol..........is not.

If it's not, then how much to drink? - The answer is balance.

And you can drink it by remembering GOD.

Let's check this verse 443 O you who believe, do not approach the contact prayer while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying...

This implies something.......you may drink until you know what you're saying, and that's enabled only via Balanced consumation of alcool.

Personally, have had some stomach issues and cannot consume it for the moment, but the red wine my friends, that's a a beautiful taste for me. The beer is ok, if you mix is with a Sprite.

So no need for extremes, any object may be the cause of not remembering GOD.

Hence the forms are the test. Check beyond them, and you'll sense who is directing all existence.

Praise be to GOD. The Lord of me and you, and everything in between.

Peace,
R.

bravo

We think alike on this issue...except in mixing beer with Sprite! P That sounds like alcohol abuse--a waste of beer!

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

KDC501

As much as I would like to see Alcohol forbidden since all I could think of is the negative aspects and not the positive(if there is any) it would be unwise to say that Alcohol is forbidden since the Quran does not give a clear answer in regards to its prohibition.

First Verse in the Quran dealing with Intoxicants and Gambling....

2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say, "In them is great harm, and a benefit for people; but their harm is greater than their benefit." They ask you how much are they to give, say, "The excess." Thus, God clarifies for you the signs that you may think.

Nothing here in this verse says that Alcohol (an intoxicant) is forbidden but rather a view on of the effects of intoxicants and gambling. The View The harm is greater than its benefits.

Second verse

443 O you who acknowledge, do not come near the contact prayer while you are drunk, until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless traveling, until you bathe. If you are ill, or traveling, or one of you come from the bathroom, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water then you shall seek clean soil and wipe your faces and hands. God is Pardoning, Forgiving. - Consuming intoxicants(like alcohol) is a matter of choice and not necessarily negate a person from being a believer.

Third and Fourth Verse

590 O you who acknowledge, intoxicants, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tools of affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful. (you shall avoid him not THEM)

591 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you then desist?

The phrase "Will you then desist???" is a strange one since to me if something was clearly forbidden in the Quran why would God then say "Will you then desist???" This was the first indication to me that God was making a recommendation that it would be better to abstain or to be careful when dealing with such devices (intoxicants , gambling etc) since if you or I are not careful we can fall prey to devil since these tools can be used as means for regression from the Way. If we look back at Sura 2219 this becomes more clearer

Read Again...

2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say, "In them is great harm, and a benefit for people; but their harm is greater than their benefit." They ask you how much are they to give, say, "The excess." Thus, God clarifies for you the signs that you may think. ( The reason why Satan can use these tools is because these tools make us most venerable. For example when we are drunk we cannot fully focus when the time is necessary. )

Basically all I see is recommendation from God to abstain from such devices (or to be careful when dealing with them). God is quite clear in highlighting that intoxicants does more harm than good. It would be wise if we abstain from such devices all together rather than toy with them since they're harm outweigh the benefits.

Again I would love to see a clear ban on these products and devices since they lack little or no value to the body , and society. However it would be wrong for me to say that such devices are forbidden since there is not a clear prohibition in the Quran.

Peace,

Kevin.

R_H_-Ustahi

Let's focus on 2219 again ...And they ask you how much they are to give, say ?The excess.?

If you give the excess, what remains? - The Balance.

...It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.

Peace, and Praise be to GOD. The Reason of existence.

R.

P.S. Abdul-Hadi, you're right

GODsubmitter

In Lighter Vein

The Muslims translate the word Al Camry in Chapter 2 Verse 219 as "Alcohol" and some say intoxicants". Although the word "Haram" or "forbidden" is not mentioned in any of the verses in the Quran when the word Al Camry appears they say it is "forbidden" to consume "Alcohol". The word Camry is used to refer to wine for inhabitants of Paradise 4715.

It seems that Alcohol is an Arabic word. Though used extensively in the western world, the word came from Arabia.

For the sunnis and shi'ite the word Al Cohol is just like Al Rahman or Al Raheem. It?s perfectly possible that they think Al Cohol could also be God?s name or attribute.
Therefore it would be forbidden to consume God.

Its funny that in USA Toyota Camry cars are the best selling. Perhaps it?s a correlation to the number of drug abusers in USA. Perhaps drug/intoxicant/Al Cohol dealers all drive Toyota Camry?s.

http//www.aididsafar.com/humor.html

unknownuser

{2421}
O ye who believe! follow not Satan's footsteps if any will follow the footsteps of Satan, he will (but) command what is shameful and wrong and were it not for the grace and mercy of Allah on you, not one of you would ever have been pure but Allah doth purify whom He pleases and Allah is One Who hears and knows (all things).

Whatever happens we must be aware of this!

GODsubmitter

handshake

http//www.youtube.com/user/WhereIsTruth?gl=CA&hl=en#p/u/148/lcIfrVXPOUQ

Noon_dhe_plume

It's clear -- beware of drunkenness and gambling which people are out to take advantage.

Heavenly is clear water, milk, deliciously fine wine, pure honey, all kinds of fruits...

4715 likeness the garden the one promised the righteous in it rivers from water not polluted and rivers from milk not change it's taste and rivers from inebriant/wine delicious to the drinkers and rivers from honey pure and for them in it from every the fruits and forgiveness from their Lord unlike who he abides forever in the fire and they given drink water boiling so it cuts to pieces their guts

Invalid777