Imagining God
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I've been having this issue for a while.
I've been risen a muslim and always believing in the oneness of God. Problem is that i've been exposed to so much western images of God that the humanoid figure with a beard is what is stuck in my mind whenever I think of him.
When I think about him, I see this image.
When I try to recall heaven, that is what I see.
When I think about hell I see that.
When I pray I end up seeing that.I try my best to avoid it and try to shake it off. I know God is beyond anything we'd ever be able to imagine, but I fear that just thinking of such things even though I don't want to is shirk on its own.
As well on a similar scale, whenever I read the Quran I imagine a deep strong voice representing God telling me these things in the Quran, which again I fear can be Shirk.
Will God hold us accountable for such thoughts?
Thanks
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Peace Aryan Warrior,
I couldn't help but chuckle at your post, as I used to struggle with the same things (and sometimes still do). I am an extremely visual/auditory person, and I need visual and auditory type thoughts to fill in "blanks" like this myself.
The overall answer I believe is that it is fine as long as you try your best to stop it. Try praying to Allah to help you as well.
As far as the "deep strong voice" representing Allah, I think that's normal. It is a natural way to emphasize His authoritative words in your head. I do it myself. And while I know you're innocent of the image that comes to your head, I understand the situation. When I was really young, I had a dream that I was face to face with "God" and I saw a certain image/being (I won't repeat it just in case any one else latches to it). This image has been really difficult to get rid of, but only in the past few years have I realized that I no longer associate with it in my head.
A tactic I used was to picture a giant "1" or Alif type shape when I think of Allah. But not to say that it is Allah's image. I see the 1 in my head every time, but I instead just associate it with His oneness. I feel much safer doing this than thinking of the image I had before. The fact that it's a symbol takes away any anthropomorphic features, and reaffirms the oneness of Allah.
Perhaps try it and let me know what you think.
May peace be with you.
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I've been having this issue for a while.
I've been risen a muslim and always believing in the oneness of God. Problem is that i've been exposed to so much western images of God that the humanoid figure with a beard is what is stuck in my mind whenever I think of him.
When I think about him, I see this image.
When I try to recall heaven, that is what I see.
When I think about hell I see that.
When I pray I end up seeing that.I try my best to avoid it and try to shake it off. I know God is beyond anything we'd ever be able to imagine, but I fear that just thinking of such things even though I don't want to is shirk on its own.
Just like this one I presume?
http//media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/31195/624314-zeus_super.jpg
Do you have a greek blood in your lineage? LOL
Some people are perhaps very visual, I wouldn't say that it's totally wrong to 'imagining' God like that..
But my suggestion is; perhaps you could consider 'changing' your 'visualization' of God?There's a 'very popular western movies' in which you can dig out called Star Wars where 'God' is being described as "The Force".. perhaps it can change your 'visualization' of God..
"Unquestionably He is, of all things, encompassing" (4154)
May The Force be with you, my padawan..
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From 329 you can see that all intelligence is God. (his own spirit gives mind (immaterial)).
Everyone is Intelligence, and create everything.
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Thanks for the assistance. While I has tried to use his name as what I imagine, the one thing is that I end up imagining the scenery of heaven with him them even if it ends up being just a floating visual of his name. Thus it still has form which still scares me otherwise taking that "one" symbol would work best for sure.
Regardless, would Allah take thoughts as Shirk as well if you always do believe in his oneness and don't believe the images to be him?
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when you think about god, think black, white space/black space, then recite, "god create that blank space", so it so much it'll blank out the image you currently have.
oh this is good D Though I'll probably not use the blank space as that seems like nothingness to me and thus I feel more distant, but the idea of using a vast space is good and maybe i'll think of the vast universe and how Allah has created all that D
While that does help, can I get some some comfort in know whether God does judge thoughts like these? or rather that if you understand that Allah is beyond all that and unimaginable, I wouldn't be judged for these thoughts.
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While that does help, can I get some some comfort in know whether God does judge thoughts like these? or rather that if you understand that Allah is beyond all that and unimaginable, I wouldn't be judged for these thoughts.
Don't worry my friend, unlike the wahhabis.. He's not that 'sensitive'.. He understand you more than you understand yourself...
Would you be angry if some hot chicks thinking of 'zeus image' in her head every time she's thinking of you? D
Btw.. here's a symbol of "Yin Yang".. black in white or white in black (it depends on your perspective)
I found it quite cool... for visualization purposeshttp//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Yin_and_Yang.svg/75px-Yin_and_Yang.svg.png
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when you think about god, think black, white space/black space, then recite, "god create that blank space", so it so much it'll blank out the image you currently have.
This is great! A similar way is to imagine if everything in the universe disappeared out of existence yet you (as awareness) were still here, what would be left? That is God.
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Don't worry my friend, unlike the wahhabis.. He's not that 'sensitive'.. He understand you more than you understand yourself...
Would you be angry if some hot chicks thinking of 'zeus image' in her head every time she's thinking of you?
Btw.. here's a symbol of "Yin Yang".. black in white or white in black (it depends on your perspective)
I found it quite cool... for visualization purposeshttp//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Yin_and_Yang.svg/75px-Yin_and_Yang.svg.png
This is great! A similar way is to imagine if everything in the universe disappeared out of existence yet you (as awareness) were still here, what would be left? That is God.
That is quite nice and quite perfectly resembles how God made both good and evil and everything else really. I understand the use of symbols, but what I fear is that are symbols even allowed as i'd think it could be a form of idol worship even? D I don't know, I have been thinking a lot about this tonight and its tiring me. I understand and know how God is beyond anything we would actually imagine and have even tried to muster up how impossible it is to really image by trying to conjure up going beyond the universe and everything and being stuck as to not being able to tell further.
I have been looking around and I have been wondering that does God ever judge us for our thoughts by this logic? The Quran never mentions thoughts other than beliefs and my beliefs are clear as I know he is beyond all that, but if I were to imagine something whether it was the Yin and Yang, the number one, his name or anything for that matter how would it work?
I'd imagine that I wouldn't be judged unless I believed those to actually be God or worshipped the symbols with a real life idol as a replica.
As well if I were to use these symbols and I worry that at some point my mind could wander and I see the "Zeus" like image of God again without me noticing till later or not at all.
Regardless, as Quranists our book never talked about thoughts of a person thus leading me to think that God doesn't care about our thoughts as long as we don't end up prostrating to an idol, but I am not sure and thus afraid.
Any further advice?
PS. I am really loving all the people on this form for how nice they are compared to other Islamic forums
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God created you. God shaped you.
He knows your innermost desires, your exact make, your entire modus operandi.
He will never take you to task for what He himself is responsible for in its entirety.
However he gave you a Will, and he will punish or reward how you use that Will according to the nature he gave you.
Don't worry about imagining God, he is beyond imagination. Just try to imagine what you think is God, keep purifying this concept (there will always be a "God" that encompasses your concept of "God" and when you truly reach the limit of your imagination/knowledge altogether, you need not try to imagine God, even as He resides barely yet truly out of grasp. By that time, you will breathe Him.
Listen to music, hear its artist. Observe and know intimately the creation, the Creator is just beyond.
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God created you. God shaped you.
He knows your innermost desires, your exact make, your entire modus operandi.
He will never take you to task for what He himself is responsible for in its entirety.
However he gave you a Will, and he will punish or reward how you use that Will according to the nature he gave you.
Don't worry about imagining God, he is beyond imagination. Just try to imagine what you think is God, keep purifying this concept and when you truly reach the limit of your imagination/knowledge altogether, you need not try to imagine God, even as He resides barely yet truly out of grasp. By that time, you will breathe Him.
haha i've tried to imagine him to his full extent before, which led me to get stuck as I tried to go beyond the boundries of of realm and everything else and realized Gods eternal and infinite capacity that can't be contained which is what led me to get stuck. That has been something i've done a while back and do from time to time. My issue is that this "Zeus" image just pops up from time to time when the idea comes up and even though I am replacing it with a symbol, I still feared symbols could be seen as idol worship. I'd rather not imagine him at all, but cause of my visualistic mind it is the reason that something needs to stand.
So when you say don't worry about imagining God, are you referring to the fact that he wouldn't hold me accountable?
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Greetings and Peace, all group
One thing that I've found useful is meditating on attributes of ALLAH, such as love. Love can't be visualized.
Saying GOD or ALLAH instead of "He" or "His" or "Him" may also help in avoiding forming unwanted images.
Another thing that I've found to be useful is to contemplate a grain of sand in relation to the known universe. The grain of sand represents the sum total of humanity, and the known universe represents less than the smallest part of ALLAH. It is difficult to visualize the entire universe, so the mind is forced to examine concepts.
ALLAH is most merciful and most generous to do anything for humans--anything at all. ALLAH has provided everything, including guidance.
4125 And who is better in the system than the one who submits himself to GOD, and he is a good doer, and he follows the creed of Abraham in monotheism? And GOD took Abraham as a friend.
5119 GOD will say "This is a Day when the truth will benefit the truthful; they will have estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein eternally; GOD has become pleased with them and they are pleased with Him. Such is the greatest victory."
How wondrous! ALLAH needs nothing from us and provides everything, but can choose to be pleased with us--or even be a friend!
May ALLAH see fit to grant us understanding, mercy, and forgiveness.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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"Another thing that I've found to be useful is to contemplate a grain of sand in relation to the known universe."
Know that without the rest of the universe, the grain of sand would not be. And without the grain of sand, the rest of the universe would not be.
Thus in looking at a single grain of sand you are looking at the way of the entire universe, the art of the artist.
Mach's principle, anthropic principle, many worlds.
Emptiness is form, form is emptiness
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I understand, I understand God and what he is but I just really wanna know if he would take into account images that aren't him that occur in our minds?
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Also verses like these "?On that day some faces will be bright, looking at their Lord.? (Qur'an 7522-23)"
This really doesn't help me as it makes me think that Allah does have form for us to look at.
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What can see without eyes and hear without ears and feel without skin?
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What can see without eyes and hear without ears and feel without skin?
I understand I understand i've stated, no need to go further the metaphors and riddles. I just want to know if one if accountable for these thoughts.
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Peace
These are not metaphors nor riddles. These are pointers towards the wordless. How can you ask for freedom from idols when you do not know what idols are? Idols are any thing that stand between you and ALLAH. ALLAH is the infinite, idols are always finite. They can be an image, a word, a mullah, a law, a celebrity, a weapon, a desire. But they are always finite.
And yes, you are accountable for these thoughts. One of the common delusions pervasive is the belief that there is an "individual" and that the individual has "privacy". Totally incorrect, all your deepest innermost thoughts resonate through your words and the keen can read into them and see straight through you. However until the day of sorting your thoughts are still semi-private. But this is the flimsiest veil of them all.
Ch 37
{95}
Said he What! do you worship what you hew out?
{96}
And Allah has created you and what you make.Ch 67
{13}
And conceal your word or manifest it; surely He is Cognizant of what is in the hearts.
{14}
Does He not know, Who created? And He is the Knower of the subtleties, the Aware. -
Peace
These are not metaphors nor riddles. These are pointers towards the wordless. How can you ask for freedom from idols when you do not know what idols are? Idols are any thing that stand between you and ALLAH. ALLAH is the infinite, idols are always finite. They can be an image, a word, a mullah, a law, a celebrity, a weapon, a desire. But they are always finite.
And yes, you are accountable for these thoughts. One of the common delusions pervasive is the belief that there is an "individual" and that the individual has "privacy". Totally incorrect, all your deepest innermost thoughts resonate through your words and the keen can read into them and see straight through you. However until the day of sorting your thoughts are still semi-private. But this is the flimsiest veil of them all.
Ch 37
{95}
Said he What! do you worship what you hew out?
{96}
And Allah has created you and what you make.Ch 67
{13}
And conceal your word or manifest it; surely He is Cognizant of what is in the hearts.
{14}
Does He not know, Who created? And He is the Knower of the subtleties, the Aware.but fact is I don't believe these images to be God. So when thinking of him what should I think then since he is beyond all we can imagine?