Misleads of Free-Minds Teachings--Positive Criticism
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It seems that you are superimposing your own opinions over the Quran.
Right now, you are Alice looking down the rabbit hole.
Do you want to know how deep it really goes?
This has got to be the most epic comment I have read on this forum.
tips hat
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Dear Amica
After reading your post again, I must say you are quickly becoming one of my favourite posters. I think you have a VERY good point that it is no use to alienate, the way to go is to discover the similarities.....
Amica, please do not disappear. By reading the responses you got on this thread you cannot escape the fact that all these individuals that do not know anything about eachother have individually come to the same conclusion to your positive remarks. That counts for something, doesnt it? You are by far the first person who has actually given constructive critism to the QA movement. Even if you never respond I want to thank you and I hope you will prosper, you are in my prayers tonight
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Peace
The issue of praying naked has been discussed before and I noticed this being mentioned few posts above.
If we look at 2458 it looks quite obvious the time of taking off clothes is before and after the prayer timings and not during.
2458 O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), on three occasions before morning prayer; the while ye doff your clothes for the noonday heat; and after the late-night prayer these are your three times of undress outside those times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about attending to each other Thus does Allah make clear the Signs to you for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.
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Is praying naked prohibited in the Qur'an? I don't know, logically it would seem fine seeing as we were, after ll, created butt naked, no?
Is there any verse adhering to it? (probably not, because it's such a silly question. and so we should probably use our logic and I can't understand why you would think it is not allowed.)
Could someone clarify?
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.031a.gif
O You the posterity of Adam! you people adopt/take your adornments/beautiful apparel at each and every place of physical demonstrative prayer-refer 731
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Finally, remember, when our parents were in the blessed paradise, they were completely naked - and were happily serving and worshiipng God in that state. It was only when they ate from the tree of awareness did they panic over their bodies being exposed and run to cover them... Layeth
I could never expect such an erroneous statement from a person like Layeth who has translated Qur'aan.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.027e.gif
he caused to strip off/remove from them their dress so that their bodies may become visible to each other.727
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I could never expect such an erroneous statement from a person like Layeth who has translated Qur'aan.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.027e.gif
he caused to strip off/remove from them their dress so that their bodies may become visible to each other.727
And furtherly explained in
"Then they both ate from it, and so their 'shame' appeared to them, and they began to stick on themselves the leaves from Paradise. Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went astray." (20120)And on 727
The root word "Lam Ba Sin" doesn't mean "human dress", although it could mean 'human dress' by its 'functionality'...For example on 2547
And it is He who has made the night for you as covering (Lam Ba Sin) and sleep (for) rest and has made the day a resurrection.However the exact meaning of what's happening here could be
- Adam and his pair did not wear any clothing/dress however they were previously not shameful of anything on their body.
- Adam and his pair did have some 'covering' although it might not be a dress as we know today and the actual form is unknown.
But after "eating the eternal fruit", Adam and his pair start to feel ashamed of their body (perhaps specifically their genital part).
The definition of 'naked' by itself varied among human culture.. a polynesian women wearing only a skirt to cover their vagina or a polynesian men wearing only a 'hollow wood' to cover their penis might still be considered 'naked' by people from other culture.
http//www.papuatrekking.com/uploads/images/fotky/Papua_Yali_(9).JPG
http//www.papuatrekking.com/uploads/images/fotky/Papua_Yali_(2).JPGAre they 'naked'? Well it depends... but nevertheless they're the progeny of "Adam and his pair".
Salam / Peace
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Salaam to all of you--
Thank you for responses. Currently, I am taking a short break at work so I cannot write a longer post. Emil, I certainly do not plan to leave. I think that Muslim Ummah has been long overdue for some rational thinking, if you know what I mean
Anyway, someone commented that they also do not reject all of the Hadiths but does not consider them divine in origin. I, too, am of the same mind. The way I view Hadiths is a useful reference to give us an idea of what the first Muslims were like, what our Prophet pbuh might have been like, etc. It's a history. But, when it comes to anything we might look for as Divine, I believe that is the Noble Qur'an. No question about it!
I grew up in fairly unreligious environment, but the Muslims who were pious around me did not put so much emphasis on the Hadiths as they did on the Noble Qur'an. It is in my later twenties that I came in touch with the way majority of the Arab Muslims approach Islam. In some ways it saddened me to see how much people can be obsessed with Hadiths, how much they are afraid to question it. Even when some of the hadiths are straight out anti-Qur'an in their teachings.
When I started coming back to Islam (I was born a Muslim, always believed in Allah SWT, but was not very good about practicing) someone gave me some books to read. I thought, ok. But I got to tell you that the books scared the living lights out of me!! It's from a Saudi-style "Islam" and I felt like crying like a baby reading those. Why? Because they portraid our Prophet pbuh as a "merciless murderer, child marrier" etc. Everything contrary from what I have heard about Prophet Muhammad pbuh from my childhood, everything contrary from what the Noble Qur'an told me about about him.
Also, some of the hadiths are bluntly rediculous, illogical, etc. One quotes a person seeing a "he-monkey stoning a she-monkey." I was like, what? Are you kidding me? Or another when where someone reported Prophet Muhammad pbuh taking a sip of water and then spitting into another person's mouth. I was floored! To this day I cannot believe that someone, a Muslim believer, would want to believe that kind of c**p.
Anyway. I will try to make it back as soon as I can. Wasalaam to all.
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Salam Amica,
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for taking the time to share your views and criticism.
I think, I have something to share with you too ) Regarding Salat when you are naked
726 O Children of Adam, We have sent down for you garments to alleviate your bodies, and feathers; and the garment of righteousness is the best. That is from the signs of God, perhaps they will remember.
727 O Children of Adam, do not let the devil afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise; he removes from them their garments to show them their bodies. He and his tribe see you from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as allies for those who do not believe.
If I have no other options, I would not mind praying when I am naked. But, under normal circumstances, I would not take off my clothes and try to remind God of what Satan caused to happen to Adam/Eve in the garden. That is a very deep spiritual moment for me, I respect it more than I respect the interviewer in a job interview.
PLEASE DO NOT READ THE FOLLOWING IF YOU ARE TOO SENSITIVE
I noticed someone using the argument that we are all born naked, well , in that case, one should be allowed to pray with his/her head up his mother's "you know what". After all, that is the place where you were born.
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Its safe to read the following even if you are sensitiveAfter all, people have different interpretations and sense of normality and formality. Why are you mad at Rashad Khalifa so much ??? The guy threw away 2 ayaats, and the traditional muslims do not follow many many verses. Rashad Khalifa and his people threw them away for good, but those traditionalists are such hypocrites, they keep the ayaats and will oppose you strongly if you ask them to follow the ayaat. In my humble opinion, Rashad and his people have to be the best creatures of God if those traditionalist Bukhari worshippers are even considered muslim. God forgive me, I am going out of control, should stop here.
Peace be on you, May Allah be pleased with you.
-------------------------------------------------------------- Student of Allah
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Salaam to all of you--
Thank you for responses. Currently, I am taking a short break at work so I cannot write a longer post. Emil, I certainly do not plan to leave. I think that Muslim Ummah has been long overdue for some rational thinking, if you know what I mean
Anyway, someone commented that they also do not reject all of the Hadiths but does not consider them divine in origin. I, too, am of the same mind. The way I view Hadiths is a useful reference to give us an idea of what the first Muslims were like, what our Prophet pbuh might have been like, etc. It's a history. But, when it comes to anything we might look for as Divine, I believe that is the Noble Qur'an. No question about it!
I grew up in fairly unreligious environment, but the Muslims who were pious around me did not put so much emphasis on the Hadiths as they did on the Noble Qur'an. It is in my later twenties that I came in touch with the way majority of the Arab Muslims approach Islam. In some ways it saddened me to see how much people can be obsessed with Hadiths, how much they are afraid to question it. Even when some of the hadiths are straight out anti-Qur'an in their teachings.
When I started coming back to Islam (I was born a Muslim, always believed in Allah SWT, but was not very good about practicing) someone gave me some books to read. I thought, ok. But I got to tell you that the books scared the living lights out of me!! It's from a Saudi-style "Islam" and I felt like crying like a baby reading those. Why? Because they portraid our Prophet pbuh as a "merciless murderer, child marrier" etc. Everything contrary from what I have heard about Prophet Muhammad pbuh from my childhood, everything contrary from what the Noble Qur'an told me about about him.
Also, some of the hadiths are bluntly rediculous, illogical, etc. One quotes a person seeing a "he-monkey stoning a she-monkey." I was like, what? Are you kidding me? Or another when where someone reported Prophet Muhammad pbuh taking a sip of water and then spitting into another person's mouth. I was floored! To this day I cannot believe that someone, a Muslim believer, would want to believe that kind of c**p.
Anyway. I will try to make it back as soon as I can. Wasalaam to all.
Amica, I need a Verse from alQuran that forbids Obeying Jesus.
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Say, "Obey Allah and the Messenger." But if they turn away - then indeed, Allah does not like the disbelievers.616
And when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah"4363
And when Jesus brought clear proofs, he said, "I have come to you with wisdom and to make clear to you some of that over which you differ, so fear Allah and obey me.2285
The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, , "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." And they say, "We hear and we obey. Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the destination."Just a Verse from Quran, nothing more.
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Assalamu alaikum--
Once again, a very short reply. Student of Allah, thank you for your post. Student of Allah, may Allah SWT bless you forever, because you just hit the nail on the head by reminding us all of the ayat you quoted from the Noble Qur'an 727 O Children of Adam, do not let the devil afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise; he removes from them their garments to show them their bodies. He and his tribe see you from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as allies for those who do not believe.
Precisely the point I tried to make, but this ayat articulates it way better than I ever will.
Regarding Rashad Khalifa, like I said, I agree with most of his "submitters" arguments but I do not accept the fact that he was a Prophet pbuh. I believe the Last, the Seal of Prophethood, was Prophet Muhammad pbuh. I do see what Khalifa attempted to do, to some degree.
Producer, you keep asking me about a verse from the Noble Qur'an stating where does it state not to follow Jesus pbuh. I have to go back to my previous post, to see what I initially wrote.
In regards to Jesus pbuh, I think the Noble Qur'an is very clear that Jesus pbuh was a Muslim, just like all the Prophets of Allah. One being a Muslim today follows Jesus pbuh, then, as well as Muhammad pbuh and any other Prophets pbut all that came before Jesus pbuh and Muhammad pbuh.
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Salaam Producer,
I am not understanding why are you bugging me about Jesus' Bible? Allah SWT states in the Qur'an that the Holy Bible is previous revelation. Muslims are to respect it and believe it to be one of the Revelations. Now, where the Noble Qur'an states that the Bible has been amended by some Jews and Christians, the Noble Qur'an corrects a lot of it.
So, why are you bugging me about Jesus pbuh and the Holy Bible? You do not believe Bible to be Allah's SWT Revelation or?... ???
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Salam Amica.
Salaam Producer,
I am not understanding why are you bugging me about Jesus' Bible? Allah SWT states in the Qur'an that the Holy Bible is previous revelation. Muslims are to respect it and believe it to be one of the Revelations. Now, where the Noble Qur'an states that the Bible has been amended by some Jews and Christians, the Noble Qur'an corrects a lot of it.
So, why are you bugging me about Jesus pbuh and the Holy Bible? You do not believe Bible to be Allah's SWT Revelation or?... ???
Do you Follow & Obey the Bible or Do not Follow & Do you Disobey the Bible?
- Yes (Follow & Obey the Bible)
- No (Do not Follow & Disobey the Bible)
If you Do not Follow & Disobey the Bible, show a Verse from Quran, why you cannot Obey and Follow the Bible.
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Salaam Producer,
If you are thinking of the Bible as it is, then I am probably disobeying much of it. Why? Well, here is the truth. The word "Bible" is not mentioned in the Noble Qur'an. What Noble Qur'an mentions is
- The Book of Abraham (no where found in today's Bible),
- the Book of Moses or Taurat (which is not the 39 books of today's Old Testament and they are NOT the first five of them called Pentateuch as those have more than one written source),
- Zabur of David pbuh (In the Old Testament of the Bible, there are Five Books of Psalms comprising of 150 Psalms. Out of these 150, a total of 73 Psalms are ascribed to Prophet David; 51 to anonymous writers, 12 to Asaph or his descendants; 9 to the sons of Korah -temple assistants; 2 to King Solomon and one each to Heman, Ethan (a musician) and Prophet Moses.
- Injeel/Gospel revealed to Jesus pbuh (which is different from the Gospels from the four apostles because Injeel confirmed Taurat and I already mentioned that Taurat is not all that is written in today's Old Testament)
- The Revelations to other prophets as stated in this ayat "Say ye "We believe in Allah and the revelation given to us and to Abraham, Ismai'l, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes and that given to Moses and Jesus and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord we make no difference between one and another of them and we bow to Allah (in Islam)." 2 136. Today's Bible has no books ascribed to Ismai'l, Isaac, Jacob or the Tribes.
- The Noble Qur'an Revelation.
The Holy Qur'an states "But because of their breach of their Covenant We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the Message that was sent them nor wilt thou cease to find them barring a few ever bent on (new) deceits but forgive them and overlook (their misdeeds) for Allah loveth those who are kind." 5 13