Sinning because of Someone else
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If someone was to sin by listening to someone else while not believing it to be halal, would it be considered as shirk?
An example being that the person drinks alcohol when someone offers him and does it under the peer pressure or cause he wants to please someone. He knows he is sinning against God and knows God is the only rightful legislator but still does it. Would that be Shirk or simply a sin of drinking alcohol?
Also another example is where he can't pray at work cause his boss won't let him and thus doesn't do it as a result but knows it is a sin he is committing. Thus would this be shirk or the sin of not praying?
Basically I know that Shirk constitutes associating partners with God and that is when it comes down to belief as I normally understood it, where if you BELIEVE a statue represents God or you BELIEVE there are other gods next to him. Thus what I wanna make sure of is by the logic of belief does this idea of sinning because of others only become Shirk if you BELIEVE that the person is the rightful legislator of law rather than God? I know that there are examples in the Quran of people who believe their priests to be rightful legislators of law over God and what he has told us in his books.
Thanks! (Note I do not do those things above, I just wanna make sure how it works)Peace everyone!
One of the Biggest tool of the Devil is probably putting the limitation upon the definition of the word "Shirk", association.
Your money, your children, your house, your spouse, your job can be your own god!
Please see http//www.submission.info/perspectives/monotheism/idolworship.html
Furthuremore, Peer pressure is probably one of the Biggest downfall of Mankind!
God gave us an example of Abraham and his people's "peer pressure", where Abraham told his people that they only took idols for their sole friendship (Quran 2925)Setting priorities
*Thus if your boss won't allow you to pray, and you deliberately have to miss your prayers, Quitting your Job is a Must. God is the best provider
*If a thousand people do wrong and invite you to do wrong, their number will not mellow down righteousness (Consequently God tells the bad is not the same as the good, even if the bad outnumbers 1005) (i.e don't do bad just because many are doing bad)May the Lord God Protect us & save us from sinning and stumbling off his path pr
~peace peace -
Peace everyone!
One of the Biggest tool of the Devil is probably putting the limitation upon the definition of the word "Shirk", association.
Your money, your children, your house, your spouse, your job can be your own god!
Please see http//www.submission.info/perspectives/monotheism/idolworship.html
Furthuremore, Peer pressure is probably one of the Biggest downfall of Mankind!
God gave us an example of Abraham and his people's "peer pressure", where Abraham told his people that they only took idols for their sole friendship (Quran 2925)Setting priorities
*Thus if your boss won't allow you to pray, and you deliberately have to miss your prayers, Quitting your Job is a Must. God is the best provider
*If a thousand people do wrong and invite you to do wrong, their number will not mellow down righteousness (Consequently God tells the bad is not the same as the good, even if the bad outnumbers 1005) (i.e don't do bad just because many are doing bad)May the Lord God Protect us & save us from sinning and stumbling off his path pr
~peace peaceBy this logic all sins would be shirk and there is a clear difference between Shirk and sin as Shirk is considered unforgivable yet as a result it makes a difference between the two by saying all lesser offenses are so.
Thus wouldn't a guy who wouldn't pray at work cause of the boss doesn't allow wouldn't mean he is worshipping him? he doesn't think of him as equal or greater than God or having legilation powers over God. Rather he has accepted to take it as a sin while knowing full well who is God. As well the example of Abraham wouldn't fit this really well considering the fact that it was about people taking actual stone idols and worshipping them because they wanted to please their friends which is incomparable to drinking alcohol because of a friend.
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The punishment of shirk is inevitable by definition. Hence unforgivable. He is the most forgiving within His prescribed limits. Those who transgress those limits will be punished irrespective of their status. When for instance you believe that eating food is unnecessary because Sheikh Walid told you so and you believe him over your God-given intelligence, you will die of starvation. That is God punishing you for committing shirk. There are better and more realistic examples but I digress.
It is like a computer trying to divide by zero, there will ALWAYS be an error. In this case it is a computer treating 1 as more than 1 - spiritually, yes but on the core level too! This is reflected in the way your brain computes numbers. For as long as you have any element of shirk you will not accept or be able to correctly comprehend/fathom ONE everlasting reality God.
Shirk and delusion are very closely intertwined. All delusions are based on shirk/truth rejection. Shirk and truth rejection are also closely intertwined although a truth rejector (kafir) is not necessarily a mushrik. All sins arise from truth rejection of which shirk is a subset.
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Whether you sin or not or do whatever, God will not become less God, so the question you should ask is what does shirk do to you. Becuase what it does to you is what mey be shirk or sin or whatever. You do not need anybody to give you marks for that. You have to understand what whatever you do or not do does to you.
Shirk means that you are lying to yourself completely about reality. How would you define somebody who does not know the assential, the most basic about reality? As a lost person? So. If you drink under peer pressure, you may be weak, but are you lost? /ou are not cheating yourself, you are dowering under pressure.
Salaam
Salaam
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The punishment of shirk is inevitable by definition. Hence unforgivable. He is the most forgiving within His prescribed limits. Those who transgress those limits will be punished irrespective of their status. When for instance you believe that eating food is unnecessary because Sheikh Walid told you so and you believe him over your God-given intelligence, you will die of starvation. That is God punishing you for committing shirk. There are better and more realistic examples but I digress.
It is like a computer trying to divide by zero, there will ALWAYS be an error. In this case it is a computer treating 1 as more than 1 - spiritually, yes but on the core level too! This is reflected in the way your brain computes numbers. For as long as you have any element of shirk you will not accept or be able to correctly comprehend/fathom ONE everlasting reality God.
Shirk and delusion are very closely intertwined. All delusions are based on shirk/truth rejection. Shirk and truth rejection are also closely intertwined although a truth rejector (kafir) is not necessarily a mushrik. All sins arise from truth rejection of which shirk is a subset.
I just bolded that part that helps my argument here. My argument was that if one believes that what that person is telling them to do is halal and not sin would be committing shirk as you have pointed out. What I am getting at is someone who doesn't believe it to be correct such as a person who doesn't believe it is right to drink when a person tells him to but does it anyways while knowing it is haram.
Thus what i'm saying here is not one who rejects the truth as being false, but rather accepts the truth but still breaks it regardless whether it be cause of his desires or his boss not allowing him to pray while full well knowing and believing that it is a sin what he is doing.
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Whether you sin or not or do whatever, God will not become less God, so the question you should ask is what does shirk do to you. Becuase what it does to you is what mey be shirk or sin or whatever. You do not need anybody to give you marks for that. You have to understand what whatever you do or not do does to you.
Shirk means that you are lying to yourself completely about reality. How would you define somebody who does not know the assential, the most basic about reality? As a lost person? So. If you drink under peer pressure, you may be weak, but are you lost? /ou are not cheating yourself, you are dowering under pressure.
Salaam
Salaam
And again I am not talking about someone who rejects the truth. They understand it and know what it haram and what isn't but they still do the haram there. Thus when they accept that alcohol they know it is haram but drink it anyways.
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Knowingly committing something haram You are going against your nature. More correctly you are allowing your evil-nature (imbalance/filth) to overcome your good-nature (balance/purity). Those who choose filth & imbalance over balance & purity are in a state of opposition to the truth/God-nature and this is true for all people of all kinds irrespective of what we may call ourselves. Remember that ultimately, what you are as a soul is an entity that makes choices.
It is not shirk in that case. However all beings have their nature and some natures bow to peer pressure. If something acts within its innocent nature (not good or evil nature!) then God assuredly has room to forgive, as He is knower of all subtleties, He who proportions.
Rejecting truth IS what haram refers to (refer to satan's classification as a rejector when he did not bow to Adam). Denizens of hellfire satisfy precisely 3 criteria forbidder of good, exceeder of limits, doubter of certain truth (i.e. promoter of falsehood as I am presently aware).
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Knowingly committing something haram You are going against your nature. More correctly you are allowing your evil-nature (imbalance/filth) to overcome your good-nature (balance/purity). Those who choose filth & imbalance over balance & purity are in a state of opposition to the truth/God-nature and this is true for all people of all kinds irrespective of what we may call ourselves. Remember that ultimately, what you are as a soul is an entity that makes choices.
It is not shirk in that case. However all beings have their nature and some natures bow to peer pressure. If something acts within its innocent nature (not good or evil nature!) then God assuredly has room to forgive, as He is knower of all subtleties, He who proportions.
Rejecting truth IS what haram refers to (refer to satan's classification as a rejector when he did not bow to Adam). Denizens of hellfire satisfy precisely 3 criteria forbidder of good, exceeder of limits, doubter of certain truth (i.e. promoter of falsehood as I am presently aware).
Alright, glad to see this confirmed. I am not involved in haram things whether it be for myself or for anyone else but I simply feared of if I did get weak and did it if it would be simply haram or shirk. I understand that I would end up repenting but shirk is simply something I don't want to even touch in the first place, which is why it is a relief to hear that if I did somehow screw up that it would end up being haram as I would still understand and believed it was haram.
Thank you cause this was driving me nuts much like what Shaytan has been scaring me with for the past for months with.
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Peace,
Glad you have found rest! Investigate further as always. God doesn't force us to remain for prolonged periods in situations where we are forced to commit evil. Sometimes we have to give up all that we think we have; friends, family, wealth, limbs.
We all have our place in the here and now. How did we get to here, now? Our past caused it. Not just you but you as the sum of your ancestry all the good combined, all the evil combined, this commanded your feet to plant themselves right here, right now. Remember that always!
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By this logic all sins would be shirk and there is a clear difference between Shirk and sin as Shirk is considered unforgivable yet as a result it makes a difference between the two by saying all lesser offenses are so.
Thus wouldn't a guy who wouldn't pray at work cause of the boss doesn't allow wouldn't mean he is worshipping him? he doesn't think of him as equal or greater than God or having legilation powers over God. Rather he has accepted to take it as a sin while knowing full well who is God. As well the example of Abraham wouldn't fit this really well considering the fact that it was about people taking actual stone idols and worshipping them because they wanted to please their friends which is incomparable to drinking alcohol because of a friend.Peace!
You have to think of it as setting priorities.
If your boss is not allowing you to pray on the Job, you need to find somewhere/take a break to do your prayer. Why? because if you don't and you intentionally miss your prayers because of your boss, you CANNOT blame him on the day of judgment for having you missing the job! Why? because you were free to quiet the job and get another one where you are able to do so! (Do you not think God will support and provide someone who just quiet his job for his majesty? To whom belongs everything in the heavens and the earth? The Almighty!)Proclaim "If your parents, your children, your siblings, your spouses, your family, the money you have earned, a business you worry about, and the homes you cherish are more beloved to you than God and His messenger, and the striving in His cause, then just wait until God brings His judgment." God does not guide the wicked people. (Quran 924)
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Peace,
Glad you have found rest! Investigate further as always. God doesn't force us to remain for prolonged periods in situations where we are forced to commit evil. Sometimes we have to give up all that we think we have; friends, family, wealth, limbs.
We all have our place in the here and now. How did we get to here, now? Our past caused it. Not just you but you as the sum of your ancestry all the good combined, all the evil combined, this commanded your feet to plant themselves right here, right now. Remember that always!
Very true, I do wholly think it is my past with the passion of knowing the truth that lead me here in the end and for that I prayed to God to lead me to such things, thus here Thank you brother ^_^
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Also... you know now that I think about it, I find it quite sad that there are people who will believe literally anything that comes from someone as being legal such as members of Al Qaeda who believe and agree with the head of that group that it is okay to kill all these innocent people. It's quite interesting how these so called "muslims" fight as mushirks when a believing soldier of the Syrian army that knows he is sinning by killing but following orders cause is a better person in the end (even though he is heavily sinning)
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Indeed Aryan Warrior!
People have sometimes commited horrendous crimes, all because they were ordered to do so!
Sometimes it was either "kill or be killed". Sadly some/most(?) of these people did the wrong choice by taking action against others. There is obviously some psychology behind this "obedience to authority". There was the Stanford Prison Experiment, where normal people were picked and put into playing the role of prisoner/guard.
Basically the expirement showed how normal people can turn into savages and commit horrendous crimes against their own mankind. The sad thing however, is that God states that no soul bears the sins of another. Thus the crimes that the followers made per stance of their rulers are actually against themselves.May the Lord God protect us from Oppression and injustice!
~peace peace -
Indeed Aryan Warrior!
People have sometimes commited horrendous crimes, all because they were ordered to do so!
Sometimes it was either "kill or be killed". Sadly some/most(?) of these people did the wrong choice by taking action against others. There is obviously some psychology behind this "obedience to authority". There was the Stanford Prison Experiment, where normal people were picked and put into playing the role of prisoner/guard.
Basically the expirement showed how normal people can turn into savages and commit horrendous crimes against their own mankind. The sad thing however, is that God states that no soul bears the sins of another. Thus the crimes that the followers made per stance of their rulers are actually against themselves.May the Lord God protect us from Oppression and injustice!
~peace peaceWell I agree with God will judging them there for murder. I myself would let myself die than commit such a sin as murder if I wasn't being attacked first.
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Also... you know now that I think about it, I find it quite sad that there are people who will believe literally anything that comes from someone as being legal such as members of Al Qaeda who believe and agree with the head of that group that it is okay to kill all these innocent people. It's quite interesting how these so called "muslims" fight as mushirks when a believing soldier of the Syrian army that knows he is sinning by killing but following orders cause is a better person in the end (even though he is heavily sinning)
Salaam
Giving in to pressure, and knowingly committing wrong, I believe comes under shirk as the person under pressure has given the status of god to other than Almighty God. Today such pressure is responsible for much wrongs and ?fassad? in this world. Take for example countries with advanced technology and military power; they will bully small countries into doing whatever they wish, with the threat of otherwise bombing them into the stone age. It?s this fear of being destroyed by "super powers" that cause many to give them god like status and to, often knowingly, commit wrong which includes handing over innocent men and women as terrorists. This has been happening now all the time and is the cause of lawlessness in today?s world, where mafia style practices have taken over.Al Qaeda is a code name for evil doers they are not Muslim, they do the dirty job for the fassadies, do not be mislead just becasue they chant Allah ho akbar they are knowingly commiting sin on the instruction of so called super powers and that is SHIRK in all three monotheist relegions.
peace
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Salaam
Giving in to pressure, and knowingly committing wrong, I believe comes under shirk as the person under pressure has given the status of god to other than Almighty God. Today such pressure is responsible for much wrongs and ?fassad? in this world. Take for example countries with advanced technology and military power; they will bully small countries into doing whatever they wish, with the threat of otherwise bombing them into the stone age. It?s this fear of being destroyed by "super powers" that cause many to give them god like status and to, often knowingly, commit wrong which includes handing over innocent men and women as terrorists. This has been happening now all the time and is the cause of lawlessness in today?s world, where mafia style practices have taken over.Al Qaeda is a code name for evil doers they are not Muslim, they do the dirty job for the fassadies, do not be mislead just becasue they chant Allah ho akbar they are knowingly commiting sin on the instruction of so called super powers and that is SHIRK in all three monotheist relegions.
peace
I gotta disagree here. Shirk is a form of kufr which is disbelief. If the person believes it is a sin and does it anyways, it is simply a sin and not shirk. Al Qaeda disbelieve the idea of not killing innocent people by giving their superiors in that group the power to make what is haram into halal. Thus they believe it is halal and therefore are kaffirs as they than disbelieve the Quran and Mushirks by disbelief through believing what another person's words as making that law now halal.
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{1325}
But those who break the Covenant of Allah, after having plighted their word thereto, and cut asunder those things which Allah has commanded to be joined, and work mischief in the land;- on them is the curse; for them is the terrible home!{2912}
And the Unbelievers say to those who believe "Follow our path, and we will bear (the consequences) of your faults." Never in the least will they bear their faults in fact they are liars!
{13}
They will bear their own burdens, and (other) burdens along with their own, and on the Day of Judgments they will be called to account for their falsehoods.The message is clear.
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{1325}
But those who break the Covenant of Allah, after having plighted their word thereto, and cut asunder those things which Allah has commanded to be joined, and work mischief in the land;- on them is the curse; for them is the terrible home!{2912}
And the Unbelievers say to those who believe "Follow our path, and we will bear (the consequences) of your faults." Never in the least will they bear their faults in fact they are liars!
{13}
They will bear their own burdens, and (other) burdens along with their own, and on the Day of Judgments they will be called to account for their falsehoods.The message is clear.
Pretty much. Also these good quotes that reflects that they won't be on the pales of Islam if they sin cause of others but they will treated as sinners under their own burden.
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Peace all,
I believe that the Shirk is associating to God what He did not allow (i.e., what He did not reveal in His Books).
Salaam
There are two unforgiveable sins; one is shirk and the other is munfiq. In one Surah in the Qur?an we read ?all will be forgiven except the munafiqeen and then it?s been quoted several times that the sin of shirk will not be forgiven. If we consider the matter carefully we realize that a munafiq puts up a false appearance to the world. S/he may even know that God exists, but to the munafiq the ?gods? of this world are of greater importance.
The same is true for s/he who assumes that anyone other than God has the power to provide a better life and therefore succumbs to other than god and thus commits shirk.
Any who try to replace God, either themselves, by super-imposing their own agenda on the message of Allah, or by assuming that anyone other than God has the power to harm or benefit them, are all mushrikeen
peace