You shall beat your wife
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Why do you use ARGUMENTUM AD POPULUM to prove your arguments?
Just because many says so, doesn't mean that they are right.
If the word idriboo in 434 is translated into BEAT, verse 434 and 435 woudn't be consistent.
DRB is just a multi-meaning word.
|434| admonish ---> separate from sleeping-places ---> IDRIBOO |435| fear a permanent rift/separation ---> reconcile
The translation of idriboo into SEPARATE FROM in the verse 434 is perfect because 434-35 would be consistent.I know that faithful-jinn is atheist.
Yeah of course, some Rashadans also agree with this kind of fallacious argument because RK also translated the word into BEAT.
Anyway I don't come to here to yell at Submitters (RK followers) but just to prove my simple point that the people who posted on this thread (Faithful-Jinn) made fallacious/invalid argument.
No offenceRegards,
Yuliana -
Just because many says so, doesn't mean that they are right.
They plagiarized without even consulting lexicons both of Arabic and English or even revisiting original text of Qur'aan.
George Sale; John Medows Rodwell and Arthur John Arberry laid the foundation to interpret this word as "scourge; chastise; beat them". Learned Yusuf Ali translated it as "(And last) beat them (lightly)". He seems to have expressed his "kindness" for women by placing "lightly" in the parentheses. Learned Pickthal like George Sale, on the contrary, seemed to have no sympathy for wives. He translated it, "and scourge them". It is hard to think that by using this word he meant to severely criticize them and not whip them.
The most unfortunate aspect of advocating domestic violence is that it insults the Arabic Word Islam; a verbal noun, and as is known it denotes action and a state. This Verbal Noun is such which deserves attain the title of "sublime interaction". It signifies a healthy state of exactitude, validity, truth; and absolved causing wellness and tranquility. And therein is no deviation, irregularity, oddity, and abnormality disturbing wellness and tranquility. It portrays a state of peace, safety, tranquility and dynamic balance wherein the man is secure from all things causing damage and disablement.
Arabic words take birth from Roots. Each Root has a specifically defined and distinctly conspicuous perception folded in it. Words, originating from Roots on well defined patterns-moulds-structuring frames, retain the original perception infolded in its Root, dominantly and conspicuously, with additional meanings and connotation, shades and colours added by the peculiar pattern-placing of vowels-syllabification, and addition of consonants. Moreover, relational aspect of the semantic field will also influence and add connotations to the word. Hence; the meanings, perception and connotation of an Arabic Word is the composite whole of the perception infolded in its Root, coupled with meanings associated with its pattern, and its relation to the semantic field where it is used. It signifies that the basic meanings of a Root and word do not exhaust when they are used in a different semantic field, relational area, while necessarily retaining the base meanings.
The basic perception, meanings and signification infolded in this Root " " as stated in Lane Lexicon is,
"accord. to Er-R?ghib, signifies the making a thing to fall upon another thing;" It reflects that its effect may necessarily not be of causing hurt. It reflects an instance; an illustration or an occurrence. The most equivalent word in English vocabulary to describe the basic perception and its various uses in different semantic fields is verb "strike". It denotes; to fall or shine on something; to make something noticed; make something to be perceived or become audible-understandable for someone; to make some idea enter somebody's mind or occur to somebody; to penetrate or seem to go right through something; make something by stamping; and to remove something away-displace. And taking support and help of other words its use signifies to hit somebody or something with a hand, tool, weapon, or other object. Obvious intention in such strike is to hurt, damage, dislocate, dislodge, deform, shape or stamp the target with force. Moreover, support words will be required if the intention of the speaker is to indicate the instance as involving repeated strikes to reflect what is denoted by English word "beating"; punishment in which somebody is repeatedly hit.Grand Qur'aan has prohibited domestic violence negating erroneous "belief" of beating one's wife.
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A man who puts his hands on a woman is a coward and has some deeper issues within himself
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A man who puts his hands on a woman is a courage and has some deeper issues within himself
If parents spanking their children is not a crime (spanking out of love to discipline the children), then how is husband physically disciplining his wife a crime??
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If parents spanking their children is not a crime (spanking out of love to discipline the children), then how is husband physically disciplining his wife a crime??
You are Disgusting i know this is what you think but is disgusting let me ask you something do you want someone to put there hands on you? do you want some to put there hand on the loving caring women that raised you? do you want someone to hit your sister? NO so how can you type this a child and a women is different there mentality is different
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You are Disgusting i know this is what you think but is disgusting let me ask you something do you want someone to put there hands on you? do you want some to put there hand on the loving caring women that raised you? do you want someone to hit your sister? NO so how can you type this a child and a women is different there mentality is different
You didn't answer my question. When loving parents spank their children who were misbehaving, is that "disgusting"? Then you have declared majority of loving parents as "disgusting"!!
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Dont you ever put something in my mouth that i haven't said you are ignorant what the hell a child have to do with a grown women a women isnt a child and isnt a property of no one but allah and i answered your question a women mentality is different from a child mentality but you didnt answer my question would you like someone to hit your mother whether it be your father or another man
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Dont you ever put something in my mouth that i haven't said you are ignorant what the hell a child have to do with a grown women a women isnt a child and isnt a property of no one but allah and i answered your question a women mentality is different from a child mentality but you didnt answer my question would you like someone to hit your mother whether it be your father or another man
A child is still a human being like a woman.
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You'll never understand.... A child indeed is a human like you and i but the mentality is different. Quit dodging my question and answer it would you like a men whether it be your father or another man put there hands on your MOTHER the women who carried you for 9 months never left your side loved you and was there for you when you were sick and when you didn't know anything that same mother that cooked food for you and hugged you .... now would you let a man hit her think deep about it is your own mother
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You'll never understand.... A child indeed is a human like you and i but the mentality is different. Quit dodging my question and answer it would you like a men whether it be your father or another man put there hands on your MOTHER the women who carried you for 9 months never left your side loved you and was there for you when you were sick and when you didn't know anything that same mother that cooked food for you and hugged you .... now would you let a man hit her think deep about it is your own mother
Nobody wants anyone to lay hands on their mother, but this is the husband's right when necessary as mentioned in Quran (Surah 434). So either you accept the Quran or stop calling yourself a Muslim.
It hurts a father and mother very much to spank their child, but they do it out of love to correct the child so that he or she grows up to be a good person. Hitting wife should be understood in the same way.
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434 The men are to support the women by what God has gifted them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The reformed women are devotees and protectors of privacy what God has protected. As for those women from whom you fear disloyalty, then you shall advise them, abandon them in the bedchamber, and separate them; if they obey you, then do not seek a way over them; God is High, Great.
Where does it says beat your wife where where where if you want to think that go ahead you can foul those who are uneducated but you cant foul those who are educated dont you blame on Allah saying he said this in the quran don't you blame my lord dont you how dare you... You would want someone to put there hand on your mother wow that's pretty messed up stop bring the whole child thing like i said child mentality is different from adults
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then you shall advise them, abandon them in the bedchamber, and separate them
Your translation is not only wrong, it sounds ridiculous and redundant
"abandon them" and then "separate them". Abandon and separate means the same thing! It's totally redundant.
Just to prove your idea you are changing the meaning of the Holy Quran.
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WOW why do you play this childish games you aren't a real men yes im questioning your manhood you came from a women and you shall not put your hands on a women that what my Mother taught me and i live by that a women is a queen not a punching bag
Translations
Edip-Layth The men are to support the women by what God has gifted them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The reformed women are devotees and protectors of privacy what God has protected. As for those women from whom you fear disloyalty, then you shall advise them, abandon them in the bedchamber, and separate them; if they obey you, then do not seek a way over them; God is High, Great.
Sher Ali Men are guardians over women because ALLAH has made some of them excel others, and because men spend on them of their wealth. So virtuous women are obedient, and guard the secrets of their husbands with ALLAH's protection. And as for those on whose part you fear disobedience, admonish them and keep away from them in their beds and chastise them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Surely, ALLAH is High and Great.
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Sher Ali Men are guardians over women because ALLAH has made some of them excel others, and because men spend on them of their wealth. So virtuous women are obedient, and guard the secrets of their husbands with ALLAH's protection. And as for those on whose part you fear disobedience, admonish them and keep away from them in their beds and chastise them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Surely, ALLAH is High and Great.
And what do you think chastise means, genius?
http//dictionary.reference.com/browse/chastise?s=t
to discipline, especially by corporal punishment.
Synonyms
- punish, castigate; whip, beat, flog, spank.
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Your Wrong
http//docupub.com/docs/a48e696e-d758-4b71-a68b-17ff2b697d04/capture-20130914-030117.pdf
that's the the meaning not your meaning is just dumb
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Silly, arrogant males, delight in deluding themselves that God has some exclusive special relationship with men that He does not have with women, and find a real toy in extracting from the Qur?an the most irrational contradictory and filthy meanings they possibly can, and then say things like Israfeel whom aI think a
troll has written.Who do they think themselve sto be to act as intermediaries between God and women? How nuts must be a person to reach such a delirious conclusion. Aren't they ashamed before God of thinking of themselves higher than their own mothers? Do they not remember 4.1 where it is said Ittaqw Allah... wa al arHam. Ittaqw al arHam does it lead to beat the women?
How far and how idiot can a person become to go so far from the real life and from thruth.
Arrogance closes the doors of Paradise. Refrain from teaching lessons to your mothers and the mothers of others, refrain from that or you will be paying dearly for not reverencing God and reverencing the arham. You are no better than women and when you get so proud in fact you become worse than the last filthy creature on earth, just like iblees, why should he bow to humans?
Only people who do not believe really in the life to come can blabber such idiocy and pretend that it be taken seriously.
The aya 4.34 is addressed to one group the believers and it addresses them in the second person plural, then it speaks about the males, it uses third person masculine plural and about the women, third person feminine plural. When it says advise, leave them alone and idribuhunna, it is addressing the comunity of believers, not the males, it is using second person inclusive plural, oh you who believe. It is not addressing neither the males, third person, masculine plural, nor the females, third person feminine plural.
The Qur'an is wise and clear, but the muddled minds of the arrogant in need of some lesser persons to kick around are delirious and imagine a God measured to their own whims and imaginations.
Salaam
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Silly, arrogant males, delight in deluding themselves that God has some exclusive special relationship with men that He does not have with women, and find a real toy in extracting from the Qur?an the most irrational contradictory and filthy meanings they possibly can, and then say things like Israfeel whom aI think a
troll has written.Who do they think themselve sto be to act as intermediaries between God and women? How nuts must be a person to reach such a delirious conclusion. Aren't they ashamed before God of thinking of themselves higher than their own mothers? Do they not remember 4.1 where it is said Ittaqw Allah... wa al arHam. Ittaqw al arHam does it lead to beat the women?
How far and how idiot can a person become to go so far from the real life and from thruth.
Arrogance closes the doors of Paradise. Refrain from teaching lessons to your mothers and the mothers of others, refrain from that or you will be paying dearly for not reverencing God and reverencing the arham. You are no better than women and when you get so proud in fact you become worse than the last filthy creature on earth, just like iblees, why should he bow to humans?
Only people who do not believe really in the life to come can blabber such idiocy and pretend that it be taken seriously.
The aya 4.34 is addressed to one group the believers and it addresses them in the second person plural, then it speaks about the males, it uses third person masculine plural and about the women, third person feminine plural. When it says advise, leave them alone and idribuhunna, it is addressing the comunity of believers, not the males, it is using second person inclusive plural, oh you who believe. It is not addressing neither the males, third person, masculine plural, nor the females, third person feminine plural.
The Qur'an is wise and clear, but the muddled minds of the arrogant in need of some lesser persons to kick around are delirious and imagine a God measured to their own whims and imaginations.
Salaam
Thank You
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Your translation is not only wrong, it sounds ridiculous and redundant
"abandon them" and then "separate them". Abandon and separate means the same thing! It's totally redundant.
Just to prove your idea you are changing the meaning of the Holy Quran.
Israfeel, THE SECOND STEP in 434 is only to ABANDON from BEDCHAMBER / ROOM.
And the 3rd step is to separate COMPLETELY.Abandon in bedchambers and separating totally are two different things.
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If parents spanking their children is not a crime (spanking out of love to discipline the children), then how is husband physically disciplining his wife a crime??
You called this filth 'discipline'?
http//ronewzakcleveland.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/man-beat-wife.pngWhere are your sense of humanity and justice gone?
You only come here to spread hatred against peaceful people. You only come here to spread violent teaching.
People like you are saddening.
You don't like the peace that Lord promotes. You support violence against wife.
Hey do you know Ali Sina? He left Islam because of violent people like you, he now mocks, laughs and ridicules islam because of people like you and whenever people insult islam, people like you get mad?You consider the hierarchy of husband and wife is the same as hierarchy of parents and children?
Are you out of your mind? Where is your sanity?
This teaching has no basis in Qur'an but you can find this in the Bible.One of your fellow Salafi brethren, Sheikh Muhammad Salih al-Munajid even supported child marriage and said that even little kids at the age of 6 are allowed to be FORCED to get married.
If Islam supported wife-beating , I would have left Islam.
But thank God for showing me the true path.
I am blessed by the courage that God has given me and I am blessed by knowledgeable truth-seekers such as Wakas, Pazuzu, Edip Y?ksel, Farouk Peru, Aidid Safar, G.A. Parwez, mmkhan etc.