Jesus is the WORD ? or the WORD is the message ?
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Salam,
345 And the angels said "O Mary, God gives you glad tidings of a word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary. Honorable in this world and in the Hereafter, and from among those who are made close."
Having some confusions here. The way I see it is that God is giving glad tidings of a "piece of information" from Him.
Can someone please correct me if I am wrong.
PEACE
---------------------- Student of AllahGod gives Mary a sentence/words which is good news for Mary as conveyed / delivered by the Angel. That Mary's should name her son as Jesus (Hebrew Iashua, Arabic Isa, AramaicEesoo), he's the one who shall be the Christ (Hebrew Mossiach) an honored man in this world and also the hereafter and among those who shall have a close relationship with God.
Being a 'sister' within the 'house of Aaron', Mary is well versed in the scriptures and as thus very familiar on the 'mossiach' prophecy. A message that the she will give birth to a baby boy and that baby boy is the prophesied Mossiach is certainly a good news for her.
Salam / Peace
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Salam,
345 And the angels said "O Mary, God gives you glad tidings of a word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary. Honorable in this world and in the Hereafter, and from among those who are made close."
Having some confusions here. The way I see it is that God is giving glad tidings of a "piece of information" from Him.
Can someone please correct me if I am wrong.
PEACE
---------------------- Student of AllahGreen highlight is from me.
Every single CREATION of GOD, The Almighty, is a WORD at the instance of its creation. This WORD, i.e. ?BE?, is said to it, and, it is created in no time. That is the way Jesus, pbuh, was created with no human male intervention in Mary?s womb through the messenger Gabriel/The Holy Spirit. The only miraculous point regarding Jesus? inception is that he did not have a father. He is the only human that, in The Qur?aan, is referred to being his mother?s son, almost all the time.
Peace,
Khalil -
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Green highlight is from me.
Every single CREATION of GOD, The Almighty, is a WORD at the instance of its creation. This WORD, i.e. ?BE?, is said to it, and, it is created in no time. That is the way Jesus, pbuh, was created with no human male intervention in Mary?s womb through the messenger Gabriel/The Holy Spirit. The only miraculous point regarding Jesus? inception is that he did not have a father. He is the only human that, in The Qur?aan, is referred to being his mother?s son, almost all the time.
Peace,
KhalilGreetings Khalil,
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Yes this has been the standard Islamic interpretation for quite some time. However, it's a bad theory if it doesn't explain the facts. So which other creature in the Quran is called "kalimatuhu", none as far as I know, therefore this must be taken into consideration.
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The Quran is referred to as "kalam Allah" at 96. Is the Quran created, in your opinion? The reason I ask is that most Muslims, that I have encountered, are quick to say that the title of "kalimat" Allah, for Christ, is nothing special, as you have done. Yet inconsistently, will not do the same for the Quran, which they say is uncreated and eternal.
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Another popular idea I have come across is that kalimat= promise, I haven't seen any lexical source for that though. As well, this "theory" suffers from the same problem namely that it fails to explain the facts, of why no one else has this unique title.
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Would Muslims accept calling the Quran a "promised" creation? Just wondering how consistent this type of argumentation is.
Thanks.
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- Another popular idea I have come across is that kalimat= promise, I haven't seen any lexical source for that though. As well, this "theory" suffers from the same problem namely that it fails to explain the facts, of why no one else has this unique title.
"The Word from Him", signifies a promise, assurance or guarantee. English "Word" is also used for this purpose, as may be seen in dictionaries, "I give you my word". And this relates to something yet to happen in future, when the word is being given.
There is no such thing as "unique title". A feminine title is not given to males.
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"The Word from Him", signifies a promise, assurance or guarantee. English "Word" is also used for this purpose, as may be seen in dictionaries, "I give you my word". And this relates to something yet to happen in future, when the word is being given.
There is no such thing as "unique title". A feminine title is not given to males.
Correct.. the exact 'translation' of kalimah is 'series of word' or 'sentence'...
Yet figure-of-saying wise.. it's very rare for 'english speaker' to use 'this is X's sentence' or 'this is the sentence of X'
they're more familiar with the phrase 'this is X's words' or 'this is the word of X'. And that's why 'kalimah' = 'word'. -
"The Word from Him", signifies a promise, assurance or guarantee.
- This is simply a gratuitous, unsupported assertion. "A word from Him" signifies "His word" as it says in 4171, kalimatuhu. You have arbitrarily defined and limited the meaning of kalimah. You simply refuse to allow the text to say what it says...perhaps for theological reasons?
- Of course it was "guaranteed" to happen, it is God who is speaking.
- You should practice exegesis, not eisegesis.
English "Word" is also used for this purpose, as may be seen in dictionaries, "I give you my word".
- I assume by this concession that you cannot find a lexical source for translating kalimah as "promise".
- Of course your reasoning here is simply anachronistic. We are dealing with a 1400 year old text, and with the language of the Arabs of that time. Why appeal to modern english uses of "word", and read that back into this ancient text?? You might as well reason that because the koine greek word "logos" is translated as "kalimah" in the Arabic Bibles that "kalimah" can mean everything that "logos" meant 2000 years ago!
And this relates to something yet to happen in future, when the word is being given.
- That's how you are choosing to understand the nominal phrase "usmuhu al masih", it could easily be understood in the present tense. Especially if the conception took place at the moment the good news was conveyed (I am assuming you believe in a virgin birth).
There is no such thing as "unique title".
Really?? Is "Al Masih" a unique title in the Quran??
A feminine title is not given to males.
- It's not?? Is Khalfiah not feminine at 3826?? And who is it ascribed to a man, or a woman??
- Why have Arabic speaking Christians been calling Christ "kalimat Allah" for, at least, 14 centuries?? If so called "feminine" titles cannot be applied to males??
The sum of it is this I am not too concerned with how you understand "kalimah", as long as you consistently apply it. That is, as long as you assert that the Quran is also the "promise" of Allah and not His eternal and uncreated kalam. I'm just looking for consistency, not double standards. And even if we allow "kalimah" to mean "promise", what does this change?? Is there anyone else in the Quran called "kalimatuhu" His word??
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Quote from Mazhar on Today at 095438 AM
A feminine title is not given to males.- It's not?? Is Khalfiah not feminine at 3826?? And who is it ascribed to a man, or a woman??
Yes, it is NOT feminine. And is the second object of the verb which is doubly transitive.
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Quote from Mazhar on Today at 095438 AM
"The Word from Him", signifies a promise, assurance or guarantee. English "Word" is also used for this purpose, as may be seen in dictionaries, "I give you my word". And this relates to something yet to happen in future, when the word is being given.Correct.. the exact 'translation' of kalimah is 'series of word' or 'sentence'...
The Arabic word is singular, feminine, and is definite, meaning "The Word".
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Quote from Mazhar on Today at 095438 AM
"The Word from Him", signifies a promise, assurance or guarantee.- This is simply a gratuitous, unsupported assertion. "A word from Him" signifies "His word" as it says in 4171, kalimatuhu. You have arbitrarily defined and limited the meaning of kalimah. You simply refuse to allow the text to say what it says...perhaps for theological reasons?
The Arabic Text is this
The word is a possessive phrase. The First Noun is definite, singular, feminine; the definite Pronoun refers back to Allah, the Exalted. This does not mean "A word from him". Here it means "The Word of Him". "The Word of Him" specifies that particular Word which was earlier conveyed. has built in Subject Pronoun, Third Person; singular; Masculine referring back to Allah, the Exalted Who conveyed "The Word", which is the object of verb , singular, feminine. And who was the one to/towards whom "The Word" was conveyed .
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Salam,
you guys confused me further P
Lets just point it out if I am wrong.
My view = word = piece of information
My 2nd view = word = promise (like giving someone your word)Is it Word OF God ? or Word from GOD ?
PEACE
---------------------------- Student of Allah -
Peace Student of Allah,
The following website explains thoroughly what you are looking for, and then some. I suggest reading all of it very carefully. It's structured to be understood quite easily.
http//www.freewebs.com/nadqur/birth.htm
If you don't want to read all of it (though I insist you do, as it explains it in light of a bigger misunderstanding most Muslims have), just CTRL + F and type "345" and read the portions related.
May Allah guide us all.
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Salam,
you guys confused me further P
Lets just point it out if I am wrong.
My view = word = piece of information
My 2nd view = word = promise (like giving someone your word)Is it Word OF God ? or Word from GOD ?
PEACE
---------------------------- Student of AllahThis is basic fact that a "Word"-- is an expression formulated for a single meaning. It verbally mirrors an object or piece of information. The expression conveyed by the word will determine its nature, whether it is a news, or representation of static image of an object, or is a promise of someone.
Expressions, "with the word from Him" and "The Word of Him" which He conveyed to Syeda Maryam", therein, the conveyed information will tell the nature of the "Word".
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Jesus was already known to be The Word, or Logos, in christianity. So The Quran also states, that he is this, in it`s own way.
However as I said before, Jesus states that "the words I speak are life, the flesh profits not". And that "he is in everyone" And that "he is in the father and the father in me". And Ruach is the judaic version of Ruh. Ruach is the lifeforce. And Jesus says that The Word is lifeforce, and "in everyone" meaning all consciousness.
The quran also includes the expression "the first and the last". Which goes back to the judaic "alef-tav". Which again goes back to hinduism, and it`s statement "The word created everything", associated with Brahma and Saraswati, which probably are Abraham and Sarai of juadism.
Alef-Tav means The Word, or first and last word, represented by first and last sign (word) of the hebrew alphabet.
And again, we can see that that God is consciousness (The Word) in 329, Ruh (gods spirit/his immaterial nature) gives mind/perception/senses.
This is also the earliest concept of God, we see in animism.
And with The Word, is the meaning.
Peace.
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616 And when Jesus, son of Mary, said O children of Israel, I am a messenger of God to you, authenticating what is between my hands of the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be most acclaimed. But when he showed them the clear proofs, they said This is clearly magic
does anyone know "he" on the verse is refer to isa or to messenger that would come after isa?