My PERSONAL conclusions about salaat (contact prayer)

diamantinehoneybunch

Dear Godsubmitter, I talked about your beloved RK because both of you and 'good' logic are so freaking obsessed with RK and you guys posted on this thread.

There is no such thing as salat 2,4,4,3,4 rakaat. Where did you get this from? Jewish Orthodoxy?

Good logic,
How hypocritical. You said men are allowed to beat their wives as last alternative? This is also what sectarians say about 434, period.
If men are allowed to beat their wives as last alternative, why can't women also beat their husbands as last option? What kind of equality is here? What kind of women's right is here? Just men' supremacy over women.

I don't give a damn if people want to call him a messenger.
But you guys take his teachings and translations as absolute truth including his salat, his zakat, his translation of 434".

I apologize for posting on here. I write about RK because you guys talked about him and why you believed that he was a messenger. I have made a thread asking about his 434 but RK followers were just silent.

Your salat conclusion is based on Rashad Khalifa too.

good_logic

Peace Yuliana.

How hypocritical. You said men are allowed to beat their wives as last alternative?

Where did I say this?
You asked what was RK s view and I quoted him

Instead of having a go at everyone, bring your understanding and evidence it from Qoran.

You seem to criticise but fail to bring the alternative meaning.

Come on ,enlighten us. Explain to us the "deen "according to Qoran alone.

Let me repeat what I said to you;

" Your best bet of understanding Qoran is God. Not me or anyone else."
I hope you keep seeking Him Alone. I am certain if you sincerely do that , He will help you with all your problems.

Peace to you.

diamantinehoneybunch

Then why the heck did Rashad Khalifa PBUH translate idriboohunne into beat them?

Why do you ask more freaking questions to me?
Don't you know that your buddy God submitter tried to banish me from this thread because I was off-topic?

Anyways, his first post on here (I mean his conclusion) was based on his dream and his Jewish culture plus his love towards RK. He rejects all non five salat theories and tries best to bring five salat theory.

I have no enough time to write but I will post all theories that I found in a new thread.

GODsubmitter

I will post all theories that I found in a new thread.

Yrs, do so!
Start your own thread!

And I do not "love" Dr. Rashad Khalifa, PhD, first because I've never met the man, second because it is not a question of loving someone, but accepting his sound reasoning of explaining the Qur'an and learning from him things that I never knew about Islam or better said submission to God.

To me, Dr. Rashad Khalifa, PhD brought irrefutable proofs and signs that God has chosen him as a messenger, unlike you or anybody else who doesn't bring any sign or confirmation from God why people should listen to you! You just manipulate with emotions "love" etc, as most women do!

If men are allowed to beat their wives as last alternative, why can't women also beat their husbands as last option? What kind of equality is here? What kind of women's right is here? Just men' supremacy over women.

And besides, men and women are not the same, and will never be! They are quite different, equal in rights perhaps yes, but never the same!
Do you need Qur'an to tell you that? As you might know, in Qur'an there is not equality in testimony, inheritance and some other issues between men and women. (411 "the male gets twice the share of the female" etc etc)
Don't you find it indicative that God had never chosen a woman to be a Prophet or Messenger, (except Miriam as a chaste womb for the birth of the Messiah)?

AND,

This is from the Authorized translation of the Qur'an by Dr.Rashad Khalifa, PhD.

Do Not Beat Your Wife*
The men are made responsible for the women,** and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.

*434 God prohibits wife-beating by using the best psychological approach. For example, if I don't want you to shop at Market X, I will ask you to shop at Market Y, then at Market Z, then, as a last resort, at Market X. This will effectively stop you from shopping at Market X, without insulting you. Similarly, God provides alternatives to wife-beating; reasoning with her first, then employing certain negative incentives. Remember that the theme of this sura is defending the women's rights and countering the prevalent oppression of women. Any interpretation of the verses of this sura must be in favor of the women. This sura's theme is "protection of women."

**434 This expression simply means that God is appointing the husband as "captain of the ship." Marriage is like a ship, and the captain runs it after due consultation with his officers. A believing wife readily accepts God's appointment, without mutiny.

So, do please go somewhere else and fight for women's rights and politically-correct "feminist" agenda and views, thank you!

GODsubmitter

Maybe this is the aim of Salat

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsvEkPNitdQ&feature=user

"This is not about talking about peace. This is about creating real peace." -David Lynch; with quantum physicist Dr. John Hagelin.

diamantinehoneybunch

Women are stupid.

Thank you.

GODsubmitter

Friday prayer? Jumla? or preparation for Shabbat?

The more I ponder, I come to the conclusion that 629 refers to gathering before the beginning of Shabbat

699 O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu`ah)* is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.

the fact that translators have to ADD that shows that it is an innovation!

Simply the WHOLE sura talks about Jews, culminating with the very well known gathering before the beginning of Shabbat, when the prayer is offered to "welcome" the arrival of the day of rest in the synagogue, or people gather in their homes for Friday Shabbat evening meal, and it coincides with the salat at dusk, or isha if you like, so, it perfectly matches! It is just few minutes after the sunset... And perhaps that's why there is no mention whatsoever of any sermon of any kind as practiced in traditional Islam yay

Of course it is Friday, but the so called "Friday-noon-prayer" called Jumla is an innovation I think!
because it is not at noon, but at the sunset!

I mean, just look at the sura in its entirety !

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Glorifying GOD is everything in the heavens and everything on earth; the King, the Most Sacred, the Almighty, the Most Wise.
He is the One who sent to the gentiles a messenger from among them, to recite to them His revelations, purify them, and teach them the scripture and wisdom. Before this, they had gone far astray.
And to many generations subsequent to them. He is the Almighty, Most Wise.
Such is GOD's grace that He bestows upon whomever He wills. GOD is Possessor of Infinite Grace.
The example of those who were given the Torah then failed to uphold it is like the donkey carrying great works of literature. Miserable indeed is the example of people who rejected GOD's revelations. GOD does not guide the wicked people.
Say, "O you who are Jewish, if you claim that you are GOD's chosen, to the exclusion of all other people, then you should long for death if you are truthful!"
They will never long for it, because of what they have committed. GOD is fully aware of the wicked.
Say, "The death that you are trying to evade will catch up with you sooner or later. Then you will be returned to the Knower of all secrets and declarations, then He will inform you of everything you had done."
Important Commandments
to All Believers
O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu'ah) is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.
Once the prayer is completed, you may spread through the land to seek GOD's bounties, and continue to remember GOD frequently, that you may succeed.
When some of them come across a business deal, or some entertainment, they rush to it and leave you standing! Say, "What GOD possesses is far better than the entertainment or the business. GOD is the best Provider."

So, even the Qur'an confirms that Sabbath was never lost, and that it is Saturday as it had always been since the beginning of time. (one can do the research, as serious scientists PROVED that today's Saturday is really the seventh day!)

Keri

Friday prayer? Jumla? or preparation for Shabbat?

The more I ponder, I come to the conclusion that 629 refers to gathering before the beginning of Shabbat

699 O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu`ah)* is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.

the fact that translators have to ADD that shows that it is an innovation!
.......
So, even the Qur'an confirms that Sabbath was never lost, and that it is Saturday as it had always been since the beginning of time. (one can do the research, as serious scientists PROVED that today's Saturday is really the seventh day!)

That sounds interesting. But could you tell me brother where does Quran confirm that Shabbat was not lost? I think I remember something like it says that Shabbat was only for Jews? (if Im not wrong, not sure right now...)

GODsubmitter

Sorry, I don't understand your question.
I myself am still in doubt whether one is to keep Sabbath and how...

Peace

Keri

Sorry, I don't understand your question.
I myself am still in doubt whether one is to keep Sabbath and how...

Peace

I mean, when you said "So, even the Qur'an confirms that Sabbath was never lost" - did you mean that Quran indirectly speaks about Shabbat by referring to congregational prayer?

GODsubmitter

Yes, I thought so

hawk99

Peace,

Just my personal thoughts

There is much debate about salat, there are those who see 5 salat, 3 salat,
2 salat and no phyical salat in Quran Kareem. Why so many differences? Is it
because salat in and of itself offers a unique challenge to the believers? Is it
because it is one of the things we must "DO" as believers and it cannot be satisfied
by lip service?

God knows and those of intelligence understand the value of the salat. Each
person should do what is in their heart. Salat has been said to be a "gift" from God.
But if salat is a gift why would someone want less than the maximum of a gift if
offered to them? I wonder, if the performance of salat was rewarded by millions of
dollars, would someone prefer 2 over 5? Maybe it is the value that we place on the
salat, five of a good thing is better than two of a good thing, more zakat is better
than less zakat. Five opportunities to make contact with our creator, one would think,
would be preferred over 2 or 3. Who would turn down such an opportunity.

God bless

GODsubmitter

Peace,

Just my personal thoughts

There is much debate about salat, there are those who see 5 salat, 3 salat,
2 salat and no phyical salat in Quran Kareem. Why so many differences? Is it
because salat in and of itself offers a unique challenge to the believers? Is it
because it is one of the things we must "DO" as believers and it cannot be satisfied
by lip service?

God knows and those of intelligence understand the value of the salat. Each
person should do what is in their heart. Salat has been said to be a "gift" from God.
But if salat is a gift why would someone want less than the maximum of a gift if
offered to them? I wonder, if the performance of salat was rewarded by millions of
dollars, would someone prefer 2 over 5? Maybe it is the value that we place on the
salat, five of a good thing is better than two of a good thing, more zakat is better
than less zakat. Five opportunities to make contact with our creator, one would think,
would be preferred over 2 or 3. Who would turn down such an opportunity.

God bless

Beautiful post, Thank you for writing it here!

My only answer to that is that people sometimes do things that do not benefit them, and
"1854 We have cited in this Quran every kind of example, but the human being is the most argumentative creature."

Peace

Timur

Peace hawk.

Maybe it is the value that we place on the salat, five of a good thing is better than two of a good thing, more zakat is better than less zakat. Five opportunities to make contact with our creator, one would think, would be preferred over 2 or 3. Who would turn down such an opportunity.

Then why not a hundred per day? Isn't one golden moment better than a million rotten ones?

There are two recommended times for salat to be found in the quran. Apart from this everyone may uphold his salat according to a suitable schedule, even those two times don't seem to be written in stone. The important thing is to have a schedule at all. The count of salat-units per day and the exact times you do salat are not that important.

Keri

Peace,

Just my personal thoughts

There is much debate about salat, there are those who see 5 salat, 3 salat,
2 salat and no phyical salat in Quran Kareem. Why so many differences? Is it
because salat in and of itself offers a unique challenge to the believers? Is it
because it is one of the things we must "DO" as believers and it cannot be satisfied
by lip service?

God knows and those of intelligence understand the value of the salat. Each
person should do what is in their heart. Salat has been said to be a "gift" from God.
But if salat is a gift why would someone want less than the maximum of a gift if
offered to them? I wonder, if the performance of salat was rewarded by millions of
dollars, would someone prefer 2 over 5? Maybe it is the value that we place on the
salat, five of a good thing is better than two of a good thing, more zakat is better
than less zakat. Five opportunities to make contact with our creator, one would think,
would be preferred over 2 or 3. Who would turn down such an opportunity.

God bless

I dont think our attitude toward God and religion shud be based on "reward" system philosophy. When we pray we do it because we want it, not with a back thought of making a bargain with a Creator. I can not understand those who are so eager about seeking "rewards". Isnt the opportunity to pray, tpo give charity - already a reward in itself? If we looking for a trade deal its value is deficient. Someome may need to pray more someone less. If sticking to Quranic text we can see rather 2+1 prayer than any other pattern. Was it by accident or God knew this model would work better for people? I think the latter is true. Peace.

hawk99

Beautiful post, Thank you for writing it here!

My only answer to that is that people sometimes do things that do not benefit them, and
"1854 We have cited in this Quran every kind of example, but the human being is the most argumentative creature."

Peace

Thank you GODsubmitter,

Peace hawk.

Then why not a hundred per day? Isn't one golden moment better than a million rotten ones?

Peace Timur,

I was only addressing the ongoing debate of 5,3,2 or no salat (contact prayers) per day.

Peace hawk.

exact times you do salat are not that important.

Here the Quran disagrees with you. 4/103

I dont think our attitude toward God and religion shud be based on "reward" system philosophy.

Peace Keri,

How many times does the word "reward" appear in the Quran and for what reasons?
Is not Jannah a reward for the righteous 3/136

When we pray we do it because we want it,because we want it, not with a back thought of making
a bargain with a Creator. about seeking "rewards".

I, like you feel a personal satisfaction before and after the contact prayers as well as offering zakat but there
are many benefits of the contact prayer one of which is obedience to our creator.

You may be confusing bargain and back thought with obedience and pleasing the almighty.

God bless

peace

Timur

Peace Hawk.

Here the Quran disagrees with you. 4/103

Does it? 4103 says, for the believers "salat" is a timed book. So this verse emphasises the importance of having a schedule but does not talk about any specific schedule that has to be the same for everyone.

hawk99

Peace All,

Prostrations from other faiths

Judaism

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3YFP5r5x-w

Orthodox Christianity

2639 And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, ?My Father, if it be possible, let this cup
pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.?

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFBH1Ws2VmY

Buddhist Prostrations

http//www.yowangdu.com/tibetan-buddhism/prostrations.html

Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them.
You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ
from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed,
He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has
given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny-all of you-then He will
inform you of everything you had disputed.

God bless

peace

GODsubmitter

Thank you @hawk99

good_logic

Peace all.

Why are we making " salat" so difficult.

GOD wishes no hardship imposed on us in practicing our religion. Any suggestion in mythology as to how to perform some of the details that move us in the direction of making the religion difficult, cannot be from GOD and is not approved by Him.

It is simple, intention to do your "salat" then follow Qoran

GOD says in Qoran when you observe the "salat"

Wash your face, and we have 1 face.
Wash your arms to the elbow, and we have 2 arms.
Wipe your head, and we have 1 head.
Wash your feet to the ankles, and we have 2 feet.

1 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 6
Before performing our 5 daily "salat", we do the above 6 actions in our ablution. This is why Almighty GOD has placed the instruction for ablution in 56. People should be able to do these actions comfortably, without any hardship. People are men, women, left-handed, right-handed, tall, short, fat, skinny, and all sort of other things. How to do the details is up to the individuals.

In regard to our feet, some people might say that the Quran says we should wipe our feet to the ankles instead of washing them. GOD says that He loves those who are clean. The believers should use their own judgment, this is a test for all of us. We must not create division between ourselves dueling on this issue. Regardless of washing our feet or wiping them, GOD will not throw our "salat" to waist.

Our intention and timing must be resolute and our "salat" must be dedicated to GOD ALONE.

God bless you all.

Peace.