My PERSONAL conclusions about salaat (contact prayer)
-
Well youssef4342, it only shows that you did not read my thread from the beginning thoroughly )
BTW
Further proof for the 5 x contact prayershttp//www.universalunity.org/17.html#MiddlePrayer
-
Peace peace
Yes i have read your original Suplication and miracle.
Now, pray sincerely again about whether the 5 or 3 daily prayers are the correct number.I have previously visited the page of the link you have provided, and let me tell you, God Almighty does not use the world "salat al asr" any where in the Quran. "Salat al asr" is by standards, a fabrication, because again, it is not cited in the Quran, as the the "salat al-asr". Moreover, Again i will mention the previous scriptures, which the Quran Confirms, all of which mention 3 daily prayers... This is why i would think i am vehement about a 3 daily prayer system currently.
Peace peace -
There is no prayer. None. No 3 prayers, no 2 prayers, no 5 prayers. You're just wasting your time on religious ( which is bad ) rituals.
-
There is no prayer. None. No 3 prayers, no 2 prayers, no 5 prayers. You're just wasting your time on religious ( which is bad ) rituals.
There is ZERO quranic evidence for your claim. If you are going to make a claim then prove it. Don't just drop words on the forum without any sort of proof. I have heard this argument many times before and so far no one has answered any of the proofs which I gave that shows clear evidence of ritual prayer being part of this deen. Here is one such instance...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603232.msg289281#msg289281
Those who support this idea of "no ritual pray" I ask them to bring proof for your claim. Let's make it an interesting debate.
Peace,
Kevin
-
Ritual prayer is religious. How do you expect it to be in the deen? lol. http//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/ read some of the articles here. I know I read here about those verses you stated
-
Ritual prayer is religious. How do you expect it to be in the deen? lol. http//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/ read some of the articles here. I know I read here about those verses you stated
I have heard these arguments and given them a response . Are you reading my posts properly????
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603232.msg289281#msg289281
Now it is up to you and others to give me a response. I will like to hear the proof from the Quran to support your claim that my claim is false. Give me a clear response. Don't just drop a link.
Peace,
Kevin.
-
I can't see where did you refute these arguments. However they're more logical than anything you've said now. How can you ask proof from Quran when all it matters is the translation of the Quran and logic. It all has to do with how it's translated. And Aidid Safar's translation makes much more sense to me.
-
I can't see where did you refute these arguments. However they're more logical than anything you've said now. How can you ask proof from Quran when all it matters is the translation of the Quran and logic. It all has to do with how it's translated. And Aidid Safar's translation makes much more sense to me.
Ok. Very interesting response. Maybe I should just post my proofs and then maybe you can give me a satisfying response
I have heard this argument before and I am sorry to say that this is a failed argument. By using simple context anyone with a little common sense can see that Salat is a PHYSICAL RITUAL prayer. You cannot use the word Salat to mean commitments since the context doesn't fit.
2238 Preserve the contact prayers, and the middle contact prayer, and stand devoutly for God.
2239 But if you are in a state of worry, then you may do so while walking or riding. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.
If salat meant commitments then why would anyone worry about doing it in cases where they are preoccupied. Wouldn't they do it some other time??? confused Also did you notice the phrase "state of worry".
What about Solomon and his horses....
3831 When, during dusk, well trained horses were displayed before him
3832 He said, "I enjoyed the good of materials more than I enjoyed remembering my Lord, until it became totally dark!"
3833 "Send them back." He then rubbed their legs and necks.In the case above it is my view that Solomon missed the middle pray. If Salat meant commitments than why couldn't Solomon do it some other time. Why is he so obsessed about the fact that it became totally dark and he forgot to 'remember' or 'give commemoration ' to God . Also shouldn't his uneasiness about missing 'remembrance' or 'commemoration of God' during a specific time of the day imply that commitments is not what he was talking about.
What about this verse....
4102 If you are with them and hold the contact prayer for them, then let a group from amongst them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; when they have prostrated then let them stand guard from behind; let a group who has not yet contacted come and contact with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The ingrates hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill, that you keep from placing down your weapons. Be wary. God has prepared for the ingrates a humiliating retribution.
How can salat here mean commitments in the above verse. Doesn't this verse imply Salat is a physical ritual prayer that has to done? Why would any solider guard someone during war time to do a simple thing like commitments??? Doesn't this show that Salat is something more than commitments?
The above verse when when read and thought through carefully should be sufficient proof that Salat does not mean commitment. Salat is a physical ritual prayer. The history of the people of the Book should also be a clear proof that Salat is a physical ritual that has be in existence for centuries.
2278 Strive in the cause of God properly. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you 'those who have peacefully surrendered' from before as well as in this. So let the messenger be witness over you and you be witness over people. So hold the contact prayer and contribute towards betterment and hold tight to God, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter.
I have argued this case on the forum before and so far no one has been able to give me a straight answer to refute the proofs which I gave from the Quran. So if you are serious about debating the issue then I welcome it.
Peace,
Kevin
I can't see how anyone in there right mind can logically imply that prays aren't ritual from the above verses. Salat by Quranic context can never mean commitments!!! This is a flawed translation. If you want to translate words in any sort of manner without using proper context then what is the point in you following the Quran in the first place????
Also, where is the historical evidence to support your claim that prays were never ritual when there are plies and plies of evidence from the previous scriptures that show that Salat is a RITUAL PRAY and NOT commitments. Show me the proof. Show to me through Quranic context and history.
Peace,
Kevin
-
That's why I sent you that link before. I'm not sure where but it explains that on one of the salat articles. I mean about the 2229 verse.He represented that verse different and I saw no contradiction. How do I know which translation is right? This is where logic comes in. Search for it if you want because I'm not capable now, but maybe I will search a little if I have time. I cannot say I win this argument yet, but I do remember Aidid explaining it and I'm gonna believe it, even If I can't prove it to anyone else yet.
-
There is also this interesting text on Salaat
http//www.godprovenas1.com/khutbas/20090605.pdf
-
AND NOW
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DPyJco2bic&feature=endscreen&NR=1
-
God tells us in Sura 2945 the purpose of salat, which is to help us abstain from the obscene and detestable, and in Sura 2 45, tells us to find strength in prayers. Now, if you think you need to make salat 5 times, then fine. If you think it is 3 times, fine. When we get into these kinds of debates, aren't we missing the point which God has made clear in Sura 2945 that remembrance of God is far greater still.
If you are not a good person doing good deeds, what difference does it make if you do salat 5 times, 3 times, once a week....? God doesn't say that those who do salat 5 times have nothing to fear nor regret and will be rewarded vs those who say salat only 3 times or not at all. Per Sura 2 62 "surely those who believe, and those wo are Jews, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor shall they grieve..."
Why are we so bent out of shape, focusing on numbers, rituals...... ? brickwall
-
OK @justamuslim, read there
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603263.0
-
This...is the worst piece of proof I've seen in my entire life.
Hilarious as always I see
-
Peace All,
A few questions.
How does one observe the timings at the poles or close to them?
How does one face Mecca from most places on earth when it is, in fact a physical impossibility since the earth is not flat?
Imraan
-
You don't. Islam has no such thing as praying.
-
Thanks Kaiokenred.
This was aimed at those who accept these timings and directions.
Imraan
-
Dua isn't praying either.