Forbidden or Sacred Month
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Below quote was extracted from discussion in "Dr. Subhi Mansour on the term "muhsanat" in the Koran" post. The author of this quote was commenting on verse 2432.
How does the poor master(s) who believe in Quran possessed slave(s)? It is by going to war and invade non-Quran believers' countries or villages. To be at attacking side, the Quran believers need to plan and Quran provides them with 'War Calendar' but its author forgot to jot down the names of the months.
But do not blame the author as he is a human and the names of the months can be obtained by associating Quran with Hadith.
War is only allowed in the following cases....
(1)Self defense
(2)Protecting the lives of the innocent and to uphold justice.Warfare in the Quran is used to make peace and to prevent injustice. Give me one example in the Quran where warfare is done to promote injustice.
2190 Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors.
2191 Kill them wherever you find them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. Do not fight them at the Restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then kill them. Thus is the reward of those who do not appreciate
2192 If they cease, then God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
494 O you who acknowledge, if you mobilize in the cause of God then make a clear declaration, and do not say to those who greet you with peace, "You are not a acknowledger!" You are seeking the vanity of this world; but with God are many riches. That is how you were before, but God favored you, so make a clear declaration. God is Ever-aware of what you do. (If peace is offered we are to accept it provided that all injustice has ceased)
Warfare is used as a tool to create peace and prevent injustice It is no more different than the war between the Allies and the Axis during World War 2. The Allies (English, Americans etc) fought for peace. This is type of warfare is just and righteous in the sight of God.
Peace,
Kevin
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Actually there are big problems with this legend of the Muslim invasion of Spain, let alone whether slaves or not slaves. And I am not too keen on giving up the legend of Egyptian slaves building the pyramids to replace it by the legend of muslim slaves invading countries, and fighting what, the Spaniards of that time? Very little did they fight, no to say nothing, IF there was such military invasion.
The romans took severla hundred years, no time for the "muslim army". Sure, real and faithful history.
I am sick of legends.
I thought your depiction was ironic, but if you say you got it from studying history... it may turn out to be tragic.
And it fits nicely in the build up the islamophobic wave in Europe.
Salaam
Hello huruf. Thanks for your input. You are certainly right that there are a lot of legends regarding the muslim invasion of Spain. No doubt about that. However, it cannot be denied that the muslim invaders commited a lot of crimes against humanity during their invasion of Marocco, and taking the berber people as slaves was just one crime out of many. And this has nothing to do with islamophobic in Europe at all, since this is taken from the muslims own sources. In fact, the muslim invaders were quite proud of how they made the MUSHREKEENS or KUFFAARS their slaves and servants and how they prevailed in their country. Its like praising yourself because you defeated the enemy.
However, the dispute is mostly about HOW the invasion of Spain happened, and how the fight between the christians in Spain and the muslim invaders from Marocco turned out to be. The europeans, of course, tend to believe that the christians of Spain didnt commited anything wrong to the jews and muslims, while the opposite is the case from the muslim point of view.
Remember the proverb = its the winners who wirte history.
Peace
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Hi all,
This post is about Sacred or Forbidden Months and my point is to tell you guys that Quran is not complete as it fail to mention the names of the months.
No. Rather that the months are well-known and were already pre-established prior to the Quran.
2197 The Pilgrimage is in the four known months. So, whosoever decides to perform the Pilgrimage in them, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor vileness, nor quarreling in the Pilgrimage. Any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is awareness; and be conscientious of Me O you who possesses intelligence.
The months are were already known during Muhammad's times. Hence the reason for it being loosely described in the Quran.
Peace,
Kevin
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No. Rather that the months are well-known and were already pre-established prior to the Quran.
2197 The Pilgrimage is in the four known months. So, whosoever decides to perform the Pilgrimage in them, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor vileness, nor quarreling in the Pilgrimage. Any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is awareness; and be conscientious of Me O you who possesses intelligence.
The months are were already known during Muhammad's times. Hence the reason for it being loosely described in the Quran.
Peace,
Kevin
So, what are the names of the four Sacred or Forbidden Months?
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So, what are the names of the four Sacred or Forbidden Months?
The names of the four months are questionable. I believe the four months are successive from the Night of Decree to the spring months. You can read about it in Chapter 16 of "The Natural Republic"
Just so you know just because the Quran doesn't provide the name of the months doesn't mean that the Quran is not complete .
The basic criterion to enter paradise are
(1) The belief in an Almighty God
(2) Doing righteous deeds
(3) No association with the One God.This is in the case if a person NEVER heard or read the Quran before. If the above criterion are followed then surely God will let that person enter paradise. Belief in the ONE God and not associating beings with him is the FUNDAMENTAL teaching of the Quran. This is what makes the Quran complete and not the rituals which are meant for people who have the means to follow them
The rituals are meant for the people who have the means to follow them and not those who don't know or have no knowledge of them.
Peace,
Kevin.
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The names of the four months are questionable. I believe the four months are successive from the Night of Decree to the spring months. You can read about it in Chapter 16 of "The Natural Republic"
Just so you know just because the Quran doesn't provide the name of the months doesn't mean that the Quran is not complete .
The basic criterion to enter paradise are
(1) The belief in an Almighty God
(2) Doing righteous deeds
(3) No association with the One God.This is in the case if a person NEVER heard or read the Quran before. If the above criterion are followed then surely God will let that person enter paradise. Belief in the ONE God and not associating beings with him is the FUNDAMENTAL teaching of the Quran. This is what makes the Quran complete and not the rituals which are meant for people who have the means to follow them
The rituals are meant for the people who have the means to follow them and not those who don't know or have no knowledge of them.
Peace,
Kevin.
Do you believe in below verse?
Postponement (of a sacred month) is only an excess of disbelief whereby those who disbelieve are misled; they allow it one year and forbid it (another) year, that they may make up the number of the months which Allah hath hallowed, so that they allow that which Allah hath forbidden. The evil of their deeds is made fairseeming unto them. Allah guideth not the disbelieving folk
The months are very important for Quran believers to observe. How are you going to ensure you don't postpone the months when you don't even know when they are?
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Do you believe in below verse?
Postponement (of a sacred month) is only an excess of disbelief whereby those who disbelieve are misled; they allow it one year and forbid it (another) year, that they may make up the number of the months which Allah hath hallowed, so that they allow that which Allah hath forbidden. The evil of their deeds is made fairseeming unto them. Allah guideth not the disbelieving folk
The months are very important for Quran believers to observe. How are you going to ensure you don't postpone the months when you don't even know when they are?
Didn't you not understand my last post. RITUALS ARE MEANT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF THEM. If you don't have knowledge of them then it is not binding for you to do them. Rituals like contact prays, fasting, and pilgrimage are meant for those you have knowledge of them and have the means to do them. It is binding upon those who are aware of these rituals to do them. Those you don't know these rituals or lack knowledge of them are not expected to do them.
1736 Do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these are held responsible for that.
Peace,
Kevin.
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No, there is plenty of doubt that ny muslim army at all entered Spain, amongs other things, because the north of what is morroco today and what is spain today were the same state, the same political unit. So, army or no arme, it could hardly invade. Second in no time almost the whole of what is today'peninsular Spain turned Muslim? By force? that is a big joke, bi, big, joke. Most of the Population of what is now Spain was scinded into trinitarian christianism upheld and impposed by the Gothic kings and nobles, and the population mostly Unitarian christian. The arrival of islam met the approval of at least a big proportion of the unitarian christian population. About what happened in Morroco and that the same Muslim writers uphold it that does not mean a thing. Supposedly it is the muslim writers who also uphold many ludicrous lies about muslims of the first times and the very Prophet and the famous sira of ibn ishak suposedly apologetical is a filthy rag against the Prophet.
It is a big leap to believe that because today we find some writing prejudicial for somebody in some other age, that in that age that writing was no convenient for that someone even if it was false. It is a big leap too, that everybody who wrote in antiquity did not have some interests in writing lies about somebody else of that age, even against his friends, for instance. At that time there were also interests.
To me those hunderds of thousands of women and children slaves, practically de whole population is out of the question. Not even in Spain, with the rewriting of history there is any mention of such a thing. Why would they do that in the African chunk of the country and not in the peninsula, suddenly. That is utterly ridiculousand, there is no reason or motive for it. The enemies of the Muslims were not always declared, like ibn ishak.
History is a spiderweb of lies. And that can be seen with one's own life. Seen that one has seen with his or her very eyes, suddenly have occured differently or have not ocurred, and things that did never occur happen to have ocurred. One has to be very suspicious with everything, particularly with the most tken for granted. nd of how one interprets things.
Salaam
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Didn't you not understand my last post. RITUALS ARE MEANT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF THEM. If you don't have knowledge of them then it is not binding for you to do them. Rituals like contact prays, fasting, and pilgrimage are meant for those you have knowledge of them and have the means to do them. It is binding upon those who are aware of these rituals to do them. Those you don't know these rituals or lack knowledge of them are not expected to do them.
1736 Do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these are held responsible for that.
Peace,
Kevin.
Lo! the number of the months with Allah is twelve months by Allah's ordinance in the day that He created the heavens and the earth. Four of them are sacred that is the right religion. So wrong not yourselves in them. And wage war on all of the idolaters as they are waging war on all of you. And know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)
1 to 12, which month Ramadhan is? Quran didn't told you that. Do you observe fasting in the month of Ramadhan?
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Lo! the number of the months with Allah is twelve months by Allah's ordinance in the day that He created the heavens and the earth. Four of them are sacred that is the right religion. So wrong not yourselves in them. And wage war on all of the idolaters as they are waging war on all of you. And know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)
1 to 12, which month Ramadhan is? Quran didn't told you that. Do you observe fasting in the month of Ramadhan?
The month of ramadhan in my view starts during the winter solstice (during the longest nights). You can read more about it in "The Natural Republic " Chapter 16 Fasting.
Again you still do not understand what I am saying. You are not allowed to follow that which you have no knowledge of. Since I have knowledge of the contact prayers, fasting, and Pilgrimage then it is binding upon me to follow these practices. This is not the case with those who DON'T have knowledge.
For those who are not aware of the Book the fundamentals that get you into paradise are
(1) The belief in an Almighty God
(2) Doing righteous deeds
(3) No association with the One God.Peace,
Kevin
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Peace,
2194 the shr/lunar cycle the prohibited for the shr/lunar cycle the prohibited and for the violations retribution so who transgres on you so you transgres to him like manner what transgres on you and fear The God and know that The God with the righteous
The names are shr/lunar cycle 1, 2, 3, and 4
How to place 'Ramadhan' in your calendar?
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The month of ramadhan in my view starts during the winter solstice (during the longest nights). You can read more about it in "The Natural Republic " Chapter 16 Fasting.
Again you still do not understand what I am saying. You are not allowed to follow that which you have no knowledge of. Since I have knowledge of the contact prayers, fasting, and Pilgrimage then it is binding upon me to follow these practices. This is not the case with those who DON'T have knowledge.
For those who are not aware of the Book the fundamentals that get you into paradise are
(1) The belief in an Almighty God
(2) Doing righteous deeds
(3) No association with the One God.Peace,
Kevin
With your latest reply in 'Maybe I'm wrong Desperate god' post, are you still interested to debate with me on this topic or stick to the quote you made below?
Then to you is your belief and to me is mine. .....
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The rituals are meant for the people who have the means to follow them and not those who don't know or have no knowledge of them.
Then please tell me the procedures and methods to cut thief?s hand and flog adulterer. These are the well known laws in Quran and by now Quranist should be able to explain in detail the procedures and methodology although they are still in virtual society. If you don?t do it right you might end up destroy the sinners future or put them to death by excessive punishment esp for young sinners. Please don?t tell me again you don?t have the knowledge as these are well known laws in Quran.
For the adultery punishment, most of the translations agreed with the lashes but for theft pro-Quranist translations have different opinions although the Arabic word clearly say ?cut?. What really happening here is that they ?disagreed? with the Quran?s author on the hand-cutting punishment.
I?ve read sometimes ago a Muslim woman got caught drinking beer in public and the local syariah court sentenced her for a few lashes. She did not want to make any plead and requested the court to proceed with the punishment. The funny thing was, the enforcement team not able to carry out the punishment due to they don?t have the capability and knowledge and they are the one who pleaded to the woman to plead at court to relax the punishment.
What the verse 1736 try to tell you is that you are not a sinner if you have done something which you think is good but in actual fact it is not or not meeting Quran?s guidelines. For example Somebody asked you for money and he claimed to buy food for his family. You gave him some but on his way to grocery store he decided to try his luck at gambling table and the luck is with him. He won more money. He bought more food for his family and your sincere intention fulfilled. What GOD will look at is you sincerity but you will not be accountable for what the man had did with your money. Other example You pay taxes to your government but if the government used your money to attack innocent peoples, GOD will not hold you accountable for what your government did. But if you still cast your vote for the same government on the next election, then you are a sinner in GOD point of view.
As a person seeking for truth, you need to make an effort to understand all the teaching inside any guide book you believed or want to believe in. Surely there is a spark in your mind asking why something looks very important not being explained in details. For this Sacred and Forbidden Months case, the dos and don?ts mentioned in Quran are very stringent yet you can?t observed them due to you don?t know when the months are. Unless you want to stress your brain you can settle with the ?listed and obey? concept.
Do you think GOD purposely wants to confuse you with HIS WORDS?
I?m very interested in the ?The Quran Quiz? post. The person who started it provides a very clear instructions or rules. Everybody who participated has no problem to follow the rules. GOD is revealing something for us there.
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Dear A2Z,
I disagree with your post on the subject of theft.
Did Joseph cut off his brother's hand when he accused him of theft?
The Quran gives us these stories to teach us the "proper" understanding and not to be a misled people.
The women in Sura 12 who saw Joseph "cut their hands" - obviously the context indicates they did not sever their hands. Therefore the same words, in a different context, can have a varied meaning.
Things are not always black & white.
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The procedures and methods for punishing adulterers and thief's are already found in the Quran . If you want more details you would not find any. Personally I would recommend you don't ask to many questions but instead act justly and use a bit of common sense to fill out all the 'blanks' in procedure. God gave you a mind. I suggest you use it. If you act justly and righteously you shouldn't have any fear about disappointing God. Don't be like the Children of Israel who questioned Moses about the heifer.
Peace,
Kevin
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Dear A2Z,
I disagree with your post on the subject of theft.
Did Joseph cut off his brother's hand when he accused him of theft?
The Quran gives us these stories to teach us the "proper" understanding and not to be a misled people.
The women in Sura 12 who saw Joseph "cut their hands" - obviously the context indicates they did not sever their hands. Therefore the same words, in a different context, can have a varied meaning.
Things are not always black & white.
Dear sir,
Nice to have you here. I think you also knew the whole story of Joseph and his brother. It was Joseph who did the planning thus it is not fair for his brother to be punished.
There are many stories in Quran and sometime the author seems trying to downgrade GOD and prophets' credibility.
2154 He said "You and your fathers have been clearly misguided."
2155 They said "Have you come to us with the truth, or are you simply playing?"
2156 He said "No, your lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the One who initiated them. And I bear witness to such."
2157 "And by God, I will plan against your statues after you have gone away and given your backs."
2158 So he broke them into pieces except for the biggest of them, so that they may turn to him.
2159 They said "Who has done this to our gods? He is surely one of the wicked."
2160 They said "We heard a young man mentioning them. He was called Abraham."
2161 They said "Bring him before the eyes of the people so that they may be witness."
2162 They said "Did you do this to our gods O Abraham?"
2163 He said "No, it was the biggest one of them here who did it, so ask them, if they do speak!"Remark I have added word no in verse 2163 as it is missing from the translation provided by this site.
Do yo agree with me if I say Abaraham lied to his people when he said, "No, it was the biggest one of them here who did it, so ask them, if they do speak!"? I understand Abraham wanted to psycho his people but it is not noble to lie to people. He can simple said, "Why don't you ask the biggest one." He don't need to lie.
I agree with you that things are not always black & white but how many sects had used the hudud's verses to punish people?
You see here even the translation from this site realized that the word 'no' should not be there in verse 2163 but in Arabic there is 'bal' word.
Maybe I'm wrong for questioning Quran but I did it with the knowledge given by GOD.
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Doing empty rituals is not what gets you into paradise. It is rather the sincerity behind the rituals that does get you into paradise. Showing your appreciation and giving thanks to God is the main purpose of rituals.
Sir, I fully agree with you on this statement.
