Christian with a question
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I am new and apologize if this isn't the right place for this question.
I am currently a Christian but am seriously considering conversion to Islam. Here comes my question that I cant get a straight answer on. Why the dedication to hadith? Why the dedication to a man made decree and not Gods? I am attending a Sunni mosque and many of the members are former Christians who left the faith due to man corrupting the message of the Bible and churches relying on man made religious rulings instead of God's rulings.
When I read the Koran I feel that it completes the Scriptures, but the Hadith can seem contradictory. One man at the mosque told me that many Hadiths were a reflection of culture and historical situations and one should follow God as times change, but he quickly told me to be careful saying that out loud.
Some help here would be needed, because one reason I am considering leaving Christianity is the same thing that seems to happen in regards to Hadiths.
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Salem !
Dear Stumpy, I may not be the one that knows it better but i'll provide you a link that will help you to understand it.
http//19.org/578/manifesto-for-islamic-reform/
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Greetings and Peace, all group
@Stumpy Welcome! welcome The Quran stands on its own merits, does it not? ) "Mainstream" Islam follows hadiths--mainly because of tradition and the desire to be mainstream. Whatever the reason, it is not a good enough reason. Popularity is a poor substitute for guidance, especially where the stakes are so high! Regardless of consequence, strive for the truth.
Extra-Quranic hadith are contrary to the message in the Quran. The Quran states that it is complete, explained in detail, that it contains the best hadith, and that it has everything that a believer needs. Not all hadith are bad--but hadith not contained in the Quran can safely be ignored for the system.
The Quran lays out an excellent system for people. Monotheism is the key. Free-Minds.org is a place where most people realize that extra-Quranic hadith have no place for believers in ALLAH and the system (or deen) of ALLAH.
262 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them believes in GOD and the Last Day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve.
If you haven't already, may I suggest that you read some of the articles on the main page?
I look forward to seeing you on Free-Minds again.
May ALLAH see fit to guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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I am new and apologize if this isn't the right place for this question.
I am currently a Christian but am seriously considering conversion to Islam. Here comes my question that I cant get a straight answer on. Why the dedication to hadith? Why the dedication to a man made decree and not Gods? I am attending a Sunni mosque and many of the members are former Christians who left the faith due to man corrupting the message of the Bible and churches relying on man made religious rulings instead of God's rulings.
When I read the Koran I feel that it completes the Scriptures, but the Hadith can seem contradictory. One man at the mosque told me that many Hadiths were a reflection of culture and historical situations and one should follow God as times change, but he quickly told me to be careful saying that out loud.
Some help here would be needed, because one reason I am considering leaving Christianity is the same thing that seems to happen in regards to Hadiths.
Shalom,
Welcome . The traditional Muslim would debate with a christian over the "authority" of St. Paul/Mark/Matthew/Luke/John to attribute things to Jesus. Their common arguments are such as
- Jesus was not there to verify whatever the gospels say about him. (since they were not checked by him)
- Who Authorized the gospel writers ?
- When JESUS himself says something, it should be more important than what PAUL says. That is, giving JESUS more authority than anyone else.
My response to such hypocrisy by the traditional muslims
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Muhammad was not there to verify the Sahih-Hadiths . They were collected and compiled roughly 2 centuries after Muhammad. If you can accept that as divine guidance, why not accept the New testament ? The earliest recordings are dated 50 years after Jesus.
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Who authorized Bukhari/Muslim/Abu Dawood/hadith collectors ?
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Why can't Paul contradict Jesus and Christians follow Paul ? Probably the same reason why the Qur'an says to hold Salat in middle tone (17110), not too loud or silently, while you all become silent in the Salat when its day time, and at night , you hold half of it silently. The same reason the Qur'an asks you to give 100 lashing(2402) to any adulterer wile you stone the married adulterers to death. The same reason Qur'an says that you can't force me to be or stay a muslim (2256 , 1682, 6107, 479-80, 1128, 2267, 3941) but you have to give death penalty to anyone who leaves the religion by his/her choice. I could go on showing these differences, but does it matter ?
PEACE
---------------------- Student of Allah -
my stance on Hadith
7185
Do they not look into the realm of the heavens and the earth and everything that Allah has created and that perhaps their appointed time has come near? So in what statement/Hadith hereafter will they believe?316
And of the people is he who buys the amusement of speech/Hadith to mislead from the way of Allah without knowledge and who takes it in ridicule. Those will have a humiliating punishment.226
Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient.Quran-Alone Muslim is incorrect based on Quran 7185, but Ottoman Empire is killed by misleading hadiths.
misleading hadiths has been tried for 88years, it doesn't work for good. It works very effectively for evil.
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I am new and apologize if this isn't the right place for this question.
I am currently a Christian but am seriously considering conversion to Islam.
Shalom Stumpy..
Conversion is an absurdity... there's no need.. however I somehow recommend you to 'convert out' from sectarianism but not 'convert into' some other sect..
Jesus teaches islam the true islam, he and his companion are moslem..
Hadiths, Talmud, Ijma Ulema and other craps are just men made (fallacious) invention..
And here's what islam is all about..
"Let Thy will be done.. on earth as it's in heaven"...Trust me it's easier said than done..
Even Jesus had his moment of despair and frustration right?Salam / Shalom / Peace
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Thanks for all the replies and the information that was provided. I have had great conversations with others in the mosque similar to what I have had with people in churches. They all said that reflection, prayer, and listening to God and his words in the Qur'an/Bible is more important than what a Hadith, tradition, or a Pope says. And sadly, all seemed afraid to be heard saying that by others. I can see the importance of religious rulings, whether in Christianity or Islam, but the world changes and a ruling that applied a thousand years ago can be detrimental today. God gave us a intellect for a reason.
As far as considering conversion to Islam, I have to say I have felt more brotherhood and a better feeling of God in a Mosque than I have in a church. To me, converting to Islam, or any religion for that matter doesn't mean ones intellect gets left at the door. I see following the Koran as increasing my knowledge of God, and trying to follow him even more fully.
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As far as considering conversion to Islam, I have to say I have felt more brotherhood and a better feeling of God in a Mosque than I have in a church.
Why not join both?
As thus you have more brotherhood and more better feeling of God.
The sum of both parts is always greater than the part itself right?Salam / Peace
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@ Jafar
That is probably what I will end up doing anyway. My wife is Christian and as such I go to church with her. But in the area where I live, Islam and Christianity do not get along. I probably will go to mosque on Friday and church on Sunday, which is what I see a lot of multifaith couples do anyways.
I apologize if I seem scattered in my questions/statements, but I am confused and yet looking at history I cannot fully trust a belief system, whether Christian or Muslim that bases most of its ideas on mans opinions. I have never fully understood the trinity for example, and I prefer the Muslim way of praying. I just feel that man makes religion way too complicated.
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@ Jafar
That is probably what I will end up doing anyway. My wife is Christian and as such I go to church with her. But in the area where I live, Islam and Christianity do not get along.
It's nearly everywhere my friend.. that's what sectarianism brings anyway... animosity and hatred between sect/religion...
More than that; Sunnis and Shiites doesn't get along the same as Catholics and Orthodox.. etc...
I probably will go to mosque on Friday and church on Sunday, which is what I see a lot of multifaith couples do anyways.
Hmmm.. then you should convert to Judaism too...
As thus you can go to Mosque on Friday, Synagogue on Saturday and Church on sunday. Isn't that great?? Triple the goodness!!I just feel that man makes religion way too complicated.
That's true.. all religions and sects are man made anyway... and God doesn't care about your religion/sects...
Muslim is an achievement through deeds and virtues and not through membership of certain sect or religion.Salam / Peace
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Shalom,
Welcome . The traditional Muslim would debate with a christian over the "authority" of St. Paul/Mark/Matthew/Luke/John to attribute things to Jesus. Their common arguments are such as
- Jesus was not there to verify whatever the gospels say about him. (since they were not checked by him)
- Who Authorized the gospel writers ?
- When JESUS himself says something, it should be more important than what PAUL says. That is, giving JESUS more authority than anyone else.
My response to such hypocrisy by the traditional muslims
-
Muhammad was not there to verify the Sahih-Hadiths . They were collected and compiled roughly 2 centuries after Muhammad. If you can accept that as divine guidance, why not accept the New testament ? The earliest recordings are dated 50 years after Jesus.
-
Who authorized Bukhari/Muslim/Abu Dawood/hadith collectors ?
-
Why can't Paul contradict Jesus and Christians follow Paul ? Probably the same reason why the Qur'an says to hold Salat in middle tone (17110), not too loud or silently, while you all become silent in the Salat when its day time, and at night , you hold half of it silently. The same reason the Qur'an asks you to give 100 lashing(2402) to any adulterer wile you stone the married adulterers to death. The same reason Qur'an says that you can't force me to be or stay a muslim (2256 , 1682, 6107, 479-80, 1128, 2267, 3941) but you have to give death penalty to anyone who leaves the religion by his/her choice. I could go on showing these differences, but does it matter ?
PEACE
---------------------- Student of AllahFirst I would like to say peace to everyone of you and Quoting you "The earliest recordings are dated 50 years after Jesus." not only that the earliest actual papyri writing of the New Testament is not dated older/lower than the 2nd century CE and lets not forget the absurdity of the scriptures around that time such as the Infancy Gospel of Thomas where Jesus' Allegedly killed boys.
Writings can be attributed to righteous prophets including Muhammad. Such as those writings long after Muhammad's death other than the Qur'an, in which they state that he killed 900 Jews which draws similarities from an ancient story from the 1st century CE about the Jewish rebellion against the romans, some Jews fled south with similarities to this story.
More details here
http//www.facebook.com/notes/surrender-to-allah/did-prophet-muhammad-ordered-900-jews-killed-/202923833081276
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First I would like to say peace to everyone of you and Quoting you "The earliest recordings are dated 50 years after Jesus." not only that the earliest actual papyri writing of the New Testament is not dated older/lower than the 2nd century CE and lets not forget the absurdity of the scriptures around that time such as the Infancy Gospel of Thomas where Jesus' Allegedly killed boys.
Writings can be attributed to righteous prophets including Muhammad. Such as those writings long after Muhammad's death other than the Qur'an, in which they state that he killed 900 Jews which draws similarities from an ancient story from the 1st century CE about the Jewish rebellion against the romans, some Jews fled south with similarities to this story.
More details here
http//www.facebook.com/notes/surrender-to-allah/did-prophet-muhammad-ordered-900-jews-killed-/202923833081276
Shalom my friend,
I was not talking about the new testament. I was talking about a piece of it. As we know that the NT is made up of many pieces of recordings put together, I was only talking about ONE of them So, yes, you are correct about the NT as a whole emerging in scene centuries later.
PEACE
------------------ Student of Allah -
I am currently a Christian but am seriously considering conversion to Islam. .......
You already have everything that needed to be a good and noble human being. Free yourself and follow the 'Book' which is inside you since day 1 you were born into this world. Just make sure that your existence give good impact to other fellow human, creatures and world around you. It is not what you follow or believe that matter, it is what you do.
If you want to believe in GOD, believe that He needs nothing from His creations. Whatever you do not going to add or reduce His power.
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All the replies have given me great things to consider, and thanks again for the input. It is refreshing to find a site that sees the truth behind the Abrahamic religions, that we are all worshiping the same God. As I said before, I personally like going to a mosque and doing the salat on a personal level, some may prefer a church, such as my wife, or a synagogue. All one can hope is to find the best way to worship God in their own way.
Now, here is a question, what in your opinion could the various religions learn from the perspective of the other? What could a follower of Islam learn from the Scriptures, a Jew from the Koran, etc.? I would think a different angle on the same goal can give a better view of the desired end, if nothing else cause one to expand their thoughts.
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First I would like to say peace to everyone of you and Quoting you "The earliest recordings are dated 50 years after Jesus." not only that the earliest actual papyri writing of the New Testament is not dated older/lower than the 2nd century CE and lets not forget the absurdity of the scriptures around that time such as the Infancy Gospel of Thomas where Jesus' Allegedly killed boys.
Writings can be attributed to righteous prophets including Muhammad. Such as those writings long after Muhammad's death other than the Qur'an, in which they state that he killed 900 Jews which draws similarities from an ancient story from the 1st century CE about the Jewish rebellion against the romans, some Jews fled south with similarities to this story.
More details here
http//www.facebook.com/notes/surrender-to-allah/did-prophet-muhammad-ordered-900-jews-killed-/202923833081276
Peace be to you.
Quoting Student of Allah "Shalom my friend,
I was not talking about the new testament. I was talking about a piece of it. As we know that the NT is made up of many pieces of recordings put together, I was only talking about ONE of them ) So, yes, you are correct about the NT as a whole emerging in scene centuries later.PEACE"
No your right, I made a mistake, I should have reworded my paragraph, I also meant a piece of it, a fragment of a chapter of a single gospel. Didn't mean the whole new testament, the earliest actual whole New Testament is from the 4th century. Sorry. I meant no disrespect just add on.
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All the replies have given me great things to consider, and thanks again for the input. It is refreshing to find a site that sees the truth behind the Abrahamic religions, that we are all worshiping the same God. As I said before, I personally like going to a mosque and doing the salat on a personal level, some may prefer a church, such as my wife, or a synagogue. All one can hope is to find the best way to worship God in their own way.
Now, here is a question, what in your opinion could the various religions learn from the perspective of the other? What could a follower of Islam learn from the Scriptures, a Jew from the Koran, etc.? I would think a different angle on the same goal can give a better view of the desired end, if nothing else cause one to expand their thoughts.
I started with the Bible for the first time when I was 26 without Christian interpretation, I felt enlightenment. When I heard mainstream Christian interpretation there was conflict on what I understood. Then I came across the Qur'an later and found finality and understanding without mainstream Muslim interpretation. I felt complete. Then when I heard Muslim interpretation with Hadith I felt some conflict.
I still keep a New Testament at home, also a Tanakh, I even have Zoroastrian, Egyptian, Apocrypha, even the (Supposed) complete Dead Sea Scrolls scripture. Love them all. But to what your question was, and from my personal journey and my understanding is there are three things we need in life for salvation that is
- Recognition of Allah (The God, Oneness of the Entity)
- Recognition of yourself (Existence, Purpose)
- Recognition of others (Altruistic Behavior)
I believe learning from each other is key in life. Peace.
My pages
http//www.facebook.com/TheSurrenderManifesto
http//www.facebook.com/SurrendertoAllah
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This has been a great thread for thought, I to am in the same situation, loving the Quran, but worried over the traditions, on facebook I get notice's from Muslims all the time saying, stay away from Quran people only, they change the Quran to fit there faith. I don't see this, I am so happy to be in a group like this, to grow, and learn, thanks to all whom has posted.
Mike -
Now, here is a question, what in your opinion could the various religions learn from the perspective of the other? What could a follower of Islam learn from the Scriptures, a Jew from the Koran, etc.? I would think a different angle on the same goal can give a better view of the desired end, if nothing else cause one to expand their thoughts.
Salaam Stumpy,
543
543 And how can they make you their judge when they have the Torah, in which there is the judgment of God; then they turn away after that. Those are not believers.547
547 And let the people of the Injeel judge with what God has sent down in it. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.Hope this help, inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan