Killed sons, and left daughters alive
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Peace be upon you,
What is to be understood by the symbolism of pharoah killing the "sons" and letting the "daughters" stay alive?
My understanding goes back to the male and female principle. The son would be a thought going out, and the daughter a thought coming in. So pharoah would prevent any new thoughts/ideas (independent thought), only allowing the propaganda of him and his court to be digested by the people(daughters).
Please comment.
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Peace be upon you,
why would the female 'be coming in'? I can understand about the male going out, although.
Here is a section of ancient teachings that should help the understanding better. Do not be concerned about where this is from, just take from it the understanding of male/female principle.
"Gender is in everything; everything has its Masculine and Feminine Principles; Gender manifests on all planes." -- The Kybalion
The great Seventh Hermetic Principle-the Principle of Gender-embodies the truth that there is Gender manifested in everything-that the Masculine and Feminine principles are ever present and active in all phases of phenomena, on each and every plane of life. At this point we think it well to call your attention to the fact that Gender, in its Hermetic sense, and Sex in the ordinarily accepted use of the term, are not the same.
The word "Gender" is derived from the Latin root meaning "to beget; to procreate; to generate; to create; to produce." A moment's consideration will show you that the word has a much broader and more general meaning than the term "Sex," the latter referring to the physical distinctions between male and female living things. Sex is merely a manifestation of Gender on a certain plane of the Great Physical Plane-the plane of organic life. We wish to impress this distinction upon your minds, for the reason that certain writers, who have acquired a smattering of the Hermetic Philosophy, have sought to identify this Seventh Hermetic Principle with wild and fanciful, and often reprehensible, theories and teachings regarding Sex.
The office of Gender is solely that of creating, producing, generating, etc., and its manifestations are visible on every plane of phenomena. It is somewhat difficult to produce proofs of this along scientific lines, for the reason that science has not as yet recognized this Principle as of universal application. But still some proofs are forthcoming from scientific sources. In the first place, we find a distinct manifestation of the Principle of Gender among the corpuscles, ions, or electrons, which constitute the basis of Matter as science now knows the latter, and which by forming certain combinations form the Atom, which until lately was regarded as final and indivisible.
The latest word of science is that the atom is composed of a multitude of corpuscles, electrons, or ions (the various names being applied by different authorities) revolving around each other and vibrating at a high degree and intensity. But the accompanying statement is made that the formation of the atom is really due to the clustering of negative corpuscles around a positive one---the positive corpuscles seeming to exert a certain influence upon the negative corpuscles, causing the latter to assume certain combinations and thus "create" or "generate" an atom. This is in line with the most ancient Hermetic Teachings, which have always identified the Masculine principle of Gender with the "Positive," and the Feminine with the "Negative'" Poles of Electricity (so called).
Now a word at this point regarding this identification. The public mind has formed an entirely erroneous impression regarding the qualities of the so-called "Negative" pole of electrified or magnetized Matter. The terms Positive and Negative are very wrongly applied to this phenomenon by science. The word Positive means something real and strong, as compared with a Negative unreality or weakness. Nothing is further from the real facts of electrical phenomenon. The so-called Negative pole of the battery is really the pole in and by which the generation or production of new forms and energies is manifested. There is nothing "negative" about it. The best scientific authorities now use the word "Cathode" in place of "Negative," the word Cathode coming from the Greek root meaning "descent; the path of generation, etc," From the Cathode pole emerge the swarm of electrons or corpuscles; from the same pole emerge those wonderful "rays" which have revolutionized scientific conceptions during the past decade. The Cathode pole is the Mother of all of the strange phenomena which have rendered useless the old text-books, and which have caused many long accepted theories to be relegated to the scrap-pile of scientific speculation. The Cathode, or Negative Pole, is the Mother Principle of Electrical Phenomena, and of the finest forms of matter as yet known to science. So you see we are justified in refusing to use the term "Negative" in our consideration of the subject, and in insisting upon substituting the word "Feminine" for the old term. The facts of the case bear us out in this, without taking the Hermetic Teachings into consideration. And so we shall use the word "Feminine" in the place of "Negative" in speaking of that pole of activity.
The latest scientific teachings are that the creative corpuscles or electrons are Feminine (science says "they are composed of negative electricity"-we say they are composed of Feminine energy). A Feminine corpuscle becomes detached from, or rather leaves, a Masculine corpuscle, and starts on a new career. It actively seeks a union with a Masculine corpuscle, being urged thereto by the natural impulse to create new forms of Matter or Energy. One writer goes so far as to use the term "it at once seeks, of its own volition, a union, " etc. This detachment and uniting form the basis of the greater part of the activities of the chemical world. When the Feminine corpuscle unites with a Masculine corpuscle, a certain process is begun. The Feminine particles vibrate rapidly under the influence of the Masculine energy, and circle rapidly around the latter. The result is the birth of a new atom. This new atom is really composed of a union of the Masculine and Feminine electrons, or corpuscles, but when the union is formed the atom is a separate thing, having certain properties, but no longer manifesting the property of free electricity. The process of detachment or separation of the Feminine electrons is called "ionization." These electrons, or corpuscles, are the most active workers in Nature's field. Arising from their unions, or combinations, manifest the varied phenomena of light, heat, electricity, magnetism, attraction, repulsion, chemical affinity and the reverse, and similar phenomena. And all this arises from the operation of the Principle of Gender on the plane of Energy.
The part of the Masculine principle seems to be that of directing a certain inherent energy toward the Feminine principle, and thus starting into activity the creative processes. But the Feminine principle is the one always doing the active creative work-and this is so on all planes. And yet, each principle is incapable of operative energy without the assistance of the other. In some of the forms of life, the two principles are combined in one organism. For that matter, everything in the organic world manifests both genders-there is always the Masculine present in the Feminine form, and the Feminine present in the Masculine form. The Hermetic Teachings include much regarding the operation of the two principles of Gender in the production and manifestation of various forms of energy, etc., but we do not deem it expedient to go into detail regarding the same at this point, because we are unable to back up the same with scientific proof, for the reason that science has not as yet progressed thus far. But the example we have given you of the phenomena of the electrons or corpuscles will show you that science is on the right path, and will also give you a general idea of the underlying principles.
Some leading scientific investigators have announced their belief that in the formation of crystals there was to be found something that corresponded to " sex activity" which is another straw showing the direction the scientific winds are blowing. And each year will bring other facts to corroborate the correctness of the Hermetic Principle of Gender. It will be found that Gender is in constant operation and manifestation in the field of inorganic matter, and in the field of Energy or Force. Electricity is now generally regarded as the "Something" into which all other forms of energy seem to melt or dissolve. The "Electrical Theory of the Universe" is the latest scientific doctrine, and is growing rapidly in popularity and general acceptance. And it thus follows that if we are able to discover in the phenomena of electricity-even at the very root and source of its manifestations a clear and unmistakable evidence of the presence of Gender and its activities, we are justified in asking you to believe that science at last has offered proofs of the existence in all universal phenomena of that great Hermetic Principle-the Principle of Gender.
It is not necessary to take up your time with the well known phenomena of the " "attraction and repulsion" of the atoms; chemical affinity; the "loves and hates" of the atomic particles; the attraction or cohesion between the molecules of matter. These facts are too well known to need extended comment from us. But, have you ever considered that all of these things are manifestations of the Gender Principle? Can you not see that the phenomena is "on all fours" with that of the corpuscles or electrons? And more than this, can you not see the reasonableness of the Hermetic Teachings which assert that the very Law of Gravitation-that strange attraction by reason of which all particles and bodies of matter in the universe tend toward each other is but another manifestation of the Principle of Gender, which operates in the direction of attracting the Masculine to the Feminine energies, and vice versa? We cannot offer you scientific proof of this at this time-but examine the phenomena in the light of the Hermetic Teachings on the subject, and see if you have not a better working hypothesis than any offered by physical science. Submit all physical phenomena to the test, and you will discern the Principle of Gender ever in evidence.
Let us now pass on to a consideration of the operation of the Principle on the Mental Plane. Many interesting features are there awaiting examination.
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Peace,
whipers I still dont get it whispers
I understand in terms of females being the producing side of the race, and generally being bullied by men into staying at home. I suspect the phrase 'coming in' is either too vague for me to understand, or is slightly off the desired meaning, or failing that, i'm just slow D wink
The son would be a thought going out, and the daughter a thought coming in
similar to the male giving+ and the female recieving- the seed?
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Peace be upon you,
Think of the penis and vagina.
The male sends the seed out, the female recieves the seed in.
Think about the sun and moon (the moon has 28 day cycles like the woman). The Sun gives off light, the moon recieves it and reflects it.
Think about a phone conversation, you have one person putting information into the phone, another recieving information from the phone.
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Peace be upon you,
Anyone else have another understanding of why pharoah killed the sons and left the daughters alive?
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Peace Idolfreee1, all
I am looking at FM's translation and they have replaced son with children and saving with raping.
And We saved you from the people of Pharaoh; they were punishing you with severe retribution, killing your children, and raping your women. In that was a great trial from your Lord. (249, 7141, 146)
I agree with what your saying, I think the idea of them representing thoughts is a good one that fits.
Imo the children are a symbol for new thoughts/ideas developing that have not had a chance to mature (killed off before they could grow), making all progress halted.
While the term 'raping your women' could be the act of brainwashing the people, getting inside them and penetrating what dwells within fertalizing thier desires and causing someone to forcefully submit to you opposed to willingly (eg forcing yourself onesomeone-unliteral)
Interesting observation, I've been searching for the symbolical meaning of verses in the Quran as well, but did not even think of looking at the story of Pharaoh in this light and many other stories unannounced as a parable, new and improved lenses to read the reading with, thank you.
btw what do you think the seven heavens/hells represent?
pz
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Salaamun,
I have a simple understanding of this verse. Pharaoh killed those who would grow strong and left to survive those who could be controlled and used conveniently. This process could of course be repeated generation after generation if one considers rape by the oppressor.
249 And when we saved you from the people of Pharaoh - they imposed on you severe punishments ? they SLAUGHTERED/cut the throat/massacred/ your sons and they left to SURVIVE/live your girls ? and such was a trial from your Lord ? great.
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Peace be upon you Khalil.
btw what do you think the seven heavens/hells represent?
I am still in GUESSING stage of this, but I am of the belief that the human has 7 forces that work on it. Being that it is created from the soil, and forces work on the earth, they also work on the human.
these 7 forces are paired, meaning that there is a positive side to each, and a negative side to each. I think the negative side might be something like the so called "seven deadly sins" and the opposite side of those seven we should strive for.
In my stdy of Kemetic philosophy, they decsribe the spirit as having seven spheres. I am still studying that.
Anyway, that is the best information I have at this time.
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Peace be upon you Khalil.
btw what do you think the seven heavens/hells represent?
I am still in GUESSING stage of this, but I am of the belief that the human has 7 forces that work on it. Being that it is created from the soil, and forces work on the earth, they also work on the human.
these 7 forces are paired, meaning that there is a positive side to each, and a negative side to each. I think the negative side might be something like the so called "seven deadly sins" and the opposite side of those seven we should strive for.
In my stdy of Kemetic philosophy, they decsribe the spirit as having seven spheres. I am still studying that.
Anyway, that is the best information I have at this time.
Peace Idolfree
That is interesting. I came to a similar conclusion as well. From what I still retain from the past, Eastern Philosphies hold that the body has seven chakras (energy centres).
I think if one does not balance the use of these centres or uses them for selfish purpourses then they are opening the 'gates' to hell. I think the story of the angels (desires?/forces?)prostrating to Adam is an example, Ibis (desire?/force?/self?/ego?) wanted Adam to prostrate to him.
"For it (are) seven doors/entrances, to each door/entrance from them (is an) apportioned/divided part/portion." (1544)
Like you my understanding is only from the bottom of the ladder, I have alot of climbing to do. I am not sure for what reason but the number 3 (the neck and up) is symoblically attributed to heaven and the number 4 (head to genitals) is symbollically attributed to Earth. I do not wish to go to far ahead but I believe the Qurans description of Judgement day is about the body its self (eg Heavens rent asunder, Earth flattened), my understanding will change with time as it grows, as does all else.
Good fortune in your Kemetic studies.
pz
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Peace idol,
Anyone else have another understanding of why pharoah killed the sons and left the daughters alive?
Pharaoh eliminated all the powerful ones and allowed life only for the submissive people. We see such politicians, people the world over.
008.054
In the manner of the people, of Pharaoh and those before them; they rejected the communications of their Lord, therefore We destroyed them on account of their faults and We drowned Firon's people, and they were all unjust.What about the 'drowning of Pharaoh'? 'Dividing of the Sea' ; making of the 'Dry path' in the sea; Musa and His People crossed the sea between the 'mountain like sea' ? 12 fountain heads ; stick turning into snake. Do you have abstract analogy to all these ? Please explain if you have
drfazl
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Peace be upon you,
What is to be understood by the symbolism of pharoah killing the "sons" and letting the "daughters" stay alive?
My understanding goes back to the male and female principle. The son would be a thought going out, and the daughter a thought coming in. So pharoah would prevent any new thoughts/ideas (independent thought), only allowing the propaganda of him and his court to be digested by the people(daughters).
Please comment.
I think killing the "sons/males" means destroying the leadership/rationality in the individual/society and letting the "daughters/females" live means that "emotionalism/chaos" is allowed to hold sway over the individual/society.
This symbolism is consistent with the ayat where it says that "they learned how to come between a man and his wife". Meaning, to corrupt the relationship between intellect and emotion, thus, creating such results chaos, docility, apathy, self-abnegation etc.
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Peace be upon you Doc,
Pharaoh eliminated all the powerful ones and allowed life only for the submissive people. We see such politicians, people the world over.
008.054
In the manner of the people, of Pharaoh and those before them; they rejected the communications of their Lord, therefore We destroyed them on account of their faults and We drowned Firon's people, and they were all unjust.What about the 'drowning of Pharaoh'?
Pharoah represents the wicked rulers. Large body of water represents an unstable society, as land represents stable society. Musa led the people THROUGH the unstable society by his new philosophy which he leaned on(staff touching the water), those who follow the guidance are brought safely through the unstable societies safely, while the wicked rulers and thier followers are "drowned" in thier unstable societies. I think we can all see this example in out lives.
'Dividing of the Sea' ; making of the 'Dry path' in the sea; Musa and His People crossed the sea between the 'mountain like sea' ?
Answered above
12 fountain heads ;
Still thinking about that one.
stick turning into snake. Do you have abstract analogy to all these ? Please explain if you have
The staff/stick was explained by Musa in the following manner;
(2017-1 "And what (is) that at your right you Moses?" He said "It is my stick, I lean on/support myself on it, and I hit/move/shake with it on my sheep and goats, and for me in it others needs/purposes."
The stick represents Musa's philoophy of life, it is what he supports himself with and also uses it to guide his "sheep". The God tells him to THROW it, and it becomes ACTIVE.
Today , so many people are stuck in these PHYSICALIZED religions that have them stuck in time. They want "ramadhan" to be a physicalized month , rather than an ACTIVE description. They want "muhammad" to be a Physicalized human from 1400 yrs ago, instead of an ACTIVE description of any man who achieves that level, they want "ruku" and "sujood" to be physicalized movements on the ground rather than ACTIVE hearing and obeying of the LAWS of the God.
It is frightening to many of us when we finally see our "religion" come alive for us, but the God reassures us not to be afraid.
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Do you have abstract analogy to all these ? Please explain if you have
Peace dr
I believe that every story in the Quran relates to us in more than just a physical level, we are more than just physical beings. The world is a mirror.
What about the 'drowning of Pharaoh'? 'Dividing of the Sea' ; making of the 'Dry path' in the sea; Musa and His People crossed the sea between the 'mountain like sea' ?
I am still somewhat unsure on these. I have not looked at these as much as I have looked a the others.
12 fountain heads ;
Until just a few days ago I had held this to be related to the signs of the Zodiac, been that there is twelve signs in the zodiac. This I believed was why each group knew its place. However FM's translation did not translate verses 1516, 2561 and 851 as Zodiac, I will have to look more in depth as to why.
stick turning into snake.
I just want to quote two verses before I explain my understanding so far
?And throw down your staff.? So when he saw it vibrate as if it were a Jinn, he ran away and would not turn back. ?O Moses, do not fear, for My messengers shall have no fear from Me.?
(2710)He threw down his staff and it manifested into a serpent.
(6107)In the second chapter God orders the angels to submit to Adam, all of them did except for Satan, the Jinn. He held himself to be greater than Adam *712).
Satan is that desire in us that holds its self greater than us, if we submit to it (self-gratification) were destructed but if we overcome it then were made whole again (self-lessness).
I believe Musa was able to control that desire, thats how I hold the symbology of the story. Adam and his spouse fell because of this desire but Musa parted seas withit, because it can be good or bad wether or not its used for selfish or selfless motives.
An interesting thing I have come to realize is that the snake is a universal symbol, in Kundalini you uncoil the snake in meditation and raise it up, in Egyptian philosophy you must be lighter than a feather to enter heaven or you are eaten by snakes and even in the bible there is the story of adam and eve as well as the Isrealites been bitten by poisonous snakes from the clouds and musas snake been given the attribute as life giving.
pz
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salams all,
salam idolfree, haha i hope you were joking about some of your responses.
anyway, i have to agree on this issue that when the Quran speaks of the pharoah killing the sons and letting the daughters live, it is not actually referring to the physical gender since obviously this would have eliminated the jewish population... rather it refers to on one hand the jews that were independent, thinkers, revolutionary, and on the other hand those who were willing to be controlled and be saps of the pharoah. )Now this is not meant to be offensive to women of course, but it just so happens the word can be used to refer to those who would be controlled.)
We have to realize that the pharoah had this thing well planned out. Just like rulers today, the best way to subjugate a people is to create a "puppet government" or puppet leaders. On the surface they are from their own people, and claim to be working for their own people's rights and freedoms.. but underneath the surface they are merely yes-men to their masters.
This is how the pharoah was able to effectively eliminate any revolutionary movement, by using the jews against themselves. (Otherwise he would have had to deal with several revolts.) And this is the state they were in when Musa (as) came, and many among them remained in this state even after Musa led them to freedom.
wassalam
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Peace be upon you Shuiab,
salam idolfree, haha i hope you were joking about some of your responses.
No, I wasn't.
Now this is not meant to be offensive to women of course, but it just so happens the word can be used to refer to those who would be controlled
The male and female PRINCIPLE runs through all things. Physical gender is only the LOWEST manifestation of this PRINCIPLE. There is always a give and take. The female is not to be thought of as 'one who is controlled" rather, one who gives birth to the seed that was implanted in it.
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Peace be upon you,
for more thoughts on "son/young boy", does the God order for REAL LIFE innocent male children to be killed for doing no wrong?
(1874) Then they proceeded until, when they met a young man, he killed him...
Or Abrahams "son". Think about it.
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Peace idolfree,
Large body of water represents an unstable society, as land represents stable society. - idolfree
Is it not that the land is given life and enriched by the water? Thus can water be not considered stable? For, instablility cannot produce stability -
Musa led the people THROUGH the unstable society by his new philosophy which he leaned on(staff touching the water), - idolfree
Is it possible to lead a people towards stabilty through instability? And is it the new philosophy or the reminder of the previous TRUTH, forgetten? How can you lean on the instability for support (staff touching the water)? If they crossed through the unstable societies(dividing the sea) , then Allah says after they crossed the sea there they found the unstable society which was worshipping the cows and idols.
drfazl
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Peace be upon you Doctor,
Large body of water represents an unstable society, as land represents stable society. - idolfree
Is it not that the land is given life and enriched by the water? Thus can water be not considered stable? For, instablility cannot produce stability -
Please note what I said above LARGE BODY of water is symbolism of unstable society. Not tiny rain drops. You can resolve this easily by trying to walk in the Ocean and compare that to trying to walk on land on a rainy day.
Small amounts of water(rain) symbolizes revelation (that whichgives life to the "earth" hat is dead). Just as a small fire is good (Musa and the bush), a large fire is bad(hell fire).
Musa led the people THROUGH the unstable society by his new philosophy which he leaned on(staff touching the water), - idolfree
Is it possible to lead a people towards stabilty through instability?
Look all around you brother, this world is very unstable, the result of MOST people not serving the One God. How else can one be lead except in the MIDST of this unstability? So Musa made the seas split. If you can see that vision in your mind, then you can see that the waters move to the side and you have STABLE LAND to walk on as you go through the split waters. Also think of this, the God inspired man to create SHIPS. What is a SHIP? It is a stable environment that we use to travel across the unstable society as well. We should all be busy making our "arks", even if the people are laughing at our understandings.
And is it the new philosophy or the reminder of the previous TRUTH, forgetten?
It is a reminder, but it is new to the one just being inspired.
How can you lean on the instability for support (staff touching the water)?
He did not lean on the water, he leaned on his staff(his life philosophy), we all rely on our understandings of life, and only those who change them to match the God's will can succeed.
If they crossed through the unstable societies(dividing the sea) , then Allah says after they crossed the sea there they found the unstable society which was worshipping the cows and idols.
Yes, you can LEAD a horse to water, but you cant make him drink. While Musa led them to stability, thier own MINDS were not purified, so they could not last long without thier idols.