Road of the Patriarch
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Coincidence # 4 The Amalekites
And Moses said to Joshua, "Choose us some men and go out, fight with Amalek. Tomorrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in my hand. (Exodus 179)
And he gathered an army and attacked the Amalekites, and delivered Israel from the hands of those who plundered them. (1 Samuel 144
"Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day. (1 Samuel 281
"Thus says the LORD of hosts 'I will punish Amalek what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. 3 'Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' " (1 Samuel 15 2,3).
The above verses mention the ?Amalek?, along with their donkeys and camels, as targets of genocide which God commanded the "Hebrew" to perpetrate. And here, again, the proponents of the Israel in the Levant (Palestine) theory will find themselves faced with the following question Has there ever been a trace of the Amalek (Amalekites) in Palestine?
Who were these people?
Here follows are a few passages (mentioned with the source), which very clearly trace these tribes to Arabia
?Who were the Amalekites? The only thing Bible scholars agree on is that they were originally an Arabian tribe. I've seen maps that show where the twelve tribes of Israel settled, in the period between 1400 and 1000 B.C., and the word "Amalekites" is written across the nearest part of the Sinai peninsula, right below the land that went to the tribe of Simeon. Before that time, however, they came from somewhere to the east, most likely from the part of Arabia around Mecca?.
Source http//xenohistorian.faithweb.com/holybook/articles/amalek.html
Here we have Western sources admitting that these tribes originated from somewhere in the central part of the Arabian peninsula, where the city of Mecca was later established.
Take a look at the following source
?The early history of Mecca is shrouded in obscurity, although Mohammedan writers have preserved an abundance of legendary lore according to which the city dates back to Abraham who is said to have there worshipped the true God. It is also stated that after the death of Abraham, the inhabitants of Mecca, owing to the evil influence of the heathen Amalekites, fell into idolatry and paganism, and the Kaaba itself became surrounded with their idols. Hundreds of these idols were destroyed by Mohammed on his entrance into the city at the head of a Moslem army in the eighth year of the Hejira, or A.D. 629. During the century before Mohammed, we find the tribe of Quraish in undisputed possession of the city and the acknowledged guardians of the Kaaba. The leading events in Mecca at that period, such as the Abyssinian expedition against Yemen and the utter defeat of Arabia's army at the hand of the Meccans, have been already discussed in the article CHRISTIANITY IN ARABIA?.
Source http//www.newadvent.org/cathen/10099a.htm
The above passage mixes truth with lies and comes up with a very confusing account. The so-called Muhamedan writers were indeed deluded when they associated Abraham with Mecca. There is absolutely ZERO proof that the city called Mecca today even existed during the time of Abraham. Also, there is ZERO evidence that the Christian king Abraha marched against Mecca. (On the contrary, there is every evidence that he conquered Yemen, in retaliation to the massacres perpetrated by the Hymyarite Jews against the Nestorian Christians of Najran. The Abraha inscription clearly mentions the names of Yemeni tribes). On the other hand, the presence of the Amalekites in central Arabia is in fact true, and has been attested to by ancient Arab geographers as well as classical Arabic poetry. Again we see the term ?Amelekites? clearly associated with central Arabia, as the evident land from which they originated. The presence of this clan around the so-called ?Sinai? peninsula or Arabia Petraeus (meaning "Rocky Arabia", further to the north (around the cities of Taima?a and Tabuk) is testament of the true direction of the ancient Semitic migrations.
Here is another source
Amalekites
?Some interpret Gen. 147 (which refers to the "land of the Amalekites", to mean that the Amalekites existed as early as the time of Abraham, in the region that would later become the Roman province of Arabia Petraea (http//www.dalton.org/groups/Rome/RMap.html). This view corroborates Nachmanides' claim of an origin for the Amalekites earlier than Esau's grandson. However the passage in question does not require this interpretation as it may be referring to the region by a name from a later era. However, the Arab historian Masudi, citing traditional Arab history relates that the Amalekites did indeed exist at this early period having originated in the region of Mecca before the time of Abraham?
Source http//www.wordiq.com/definition/AmalekitesThe truth is that it was not only Al-Mas3udi who mentioned this clan, but also Yaqoot al-Hamwi and the famous Ibn Khaldoun, both attested that the Amalekites were an ancient Arabian clan belonging to the mega-tribe of Mudhar, whose domain was the Red Sea mountainous coastal area stretching from central Asir, all the way to the Hijaz in the North. The location of the current city of Mecca was part of their territory.
Here is what al-Hamadani - the religiously neutral geographer, astronomer and historian from Yemen - says about them, in his book "Description of Arabia"
. - - .
He is describing the fertile, volcanic mountain slopes of the Hijaz area (including the area around Mecca) as ?the Mountains of Faran, son of 3amleeq?.
In Arabic, their plural name is rendered as ?al-3amaleeq?, and spelled .
The many battles fought between the 3amaleeq and Bani Israel (who originated from south Arabia) were nothing but a natural extension of the legendary rivalry between the northern Arabs of Mudhar and their southern Qahtany neighbours (among them Bani Kinanah).
What is even more interesting, is what Yaqoot al-Hamwi (famous Arab geographer) wrote in his book ?Mu3jam al Buldan? (the Dictionary of Countries), concerning the identity of Far3oun (the tyrant who persecuted Moses)
" ".
Here is an explanation of what Al-Hamwi is saying The Far3oun was an Arab man of the clan of 3amaleeq. He was a short, squat, bearded man who lived 500 years (???) and his name was "AlWaleed bin Mis3ab". Some people falsely claimed that he was Egyptian.
Now, despite the general accuracy of Al-Hamwi, and the fact that many of the locations he mentioned were shown to be exactly where he placed them, on various maps of later eras, we cannot take his words concerning the identity of Far3oun as 100% truth (Even though the name ?Al-Waleed bin Mis3ab? is the exact same name which appears in several other ancient Arabic writings concerning the identity of Far3oun. Among those sources are Al-Tabari and al-Jawhari, both of whom attest that Far3oun was an Arab man).
Furthermore, Far3oun did not live for 500 years, nor was he Egyptian. It seems that al-Hamwi was simply reporting all the myths and falsehoods that were attributed to that tyrant, which had gradually seeped into the Arabian memory and contaminated it. And the fact he says ?Some people falsely claimed that he was Egyptian? is an attestation of the ancient Septuagint forgery, which replaced the word ?Msrim? (meaning Mudhar) with Egypt. Hence, Far3oun was a Mudhari man, of the clan of 3amaleeq (Amalekites), one of Israel?s bitter enemies in the distant past. And the ancient, dusty memory of Arabia, glimpses of which can still be seen buried under generations of garbage and Jewish lies, did in fact record that the events surrounding Bani Israel took place in Arabia, near the trade routes.
Here is another proof of the confusion and the geographical chaos caused by the Septuagint translation of the Old Testament
Then David said to him, "To whom do you and where you from?" And he said, "I a young man from Egypt, servant of an Amalekite; and my master left me behind, because three days ago I fell sick. (1 Samuel 3013)
How can a man from Egypt be a servant of an Amalekite in central Arabia?
Remember what Amalek did to you on the way as you were coming out of Egypt (Deuteronomy 257)
How can the Amalekites (the "3amaleeq" of ARABIA) ambush the Israelites as they were coming out of Egypt?
Here is the correct rendering of those passages
"I a young man from Mudhar (Msrim), servant of an Amalekite??
?Remember what Amalek (3amaleeq) did to you as you were coming out of the land of Mudhar (Msrim)?.
Next up, we look at the ?Zamzumim? mentioned in the Old Testament.
To Be Continued....
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Salam bro pazuzu,
does the word
3mlaqwhich in common arabic means powerful/strong/huge/amazing comes as a reference to the strength of the Amalekites (3malikes) in their powerful days?...
a bit like the reference to "strong as a Turkman" in the days of the Ottoman empire?
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-Salam Bro theNabster
Refer to Quran 522
522 They said "O Moses, in it are a mighty people, and we will not enter it until they leave from it. So when they leave from it, then we will enter."
The world " jabar" means 3mlaq
powerful, tremendous,huge, giant, colossal, superhuman, strongman, titan
Sakhr dictionary
http//qamoos.sakhr.com/SearchResults.aspx
Salam bro pazuzu,
does the word
3mlaqwhich in common arabic means powerful/strong/huge/amazing comes as a reference to the strength of the Amalekites (3malikes) in their powerful days?...
a bit like the reference to "strong as a Turkman" in the days of the Ottoman empire?
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Peace Bro abuamrrami,
So this confirms that the word 3mlaq entered the Arabic language as a synonym for Jabar...
and since Allah can inspire people, he inspired that the word be used (in future Arabic) to (Allah knows) remind who were the people in the town the Israelites refused to enter in and fight because they were renowned for their strength...
Al 3maliqs would have been the inhabitants of the town the ayah 522 refer to...
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Not to fly to off topic, but I appreciate Pazuzus work and he has contributed a lot to dispel the false historical myths. I have seen in his previous threads people bashing his attempts like any sunni or shia would. but the truth is thr Quran is not a book of nations, but of guidance, and mentions names and geography. So any preconceived notions of whereabouts these stories took place can fall under scrutiny and serious critical analysis. Everyone seems to be trying to prove that the names of these things are just bastardizations. Many Muslims claim in the case of Nuah pbuh that the gods of Noahs people are bastardiations of other languages and not their real names. I beg to differ. Allah tells us the Quran is in a pure arabic tongue and cannot be forged. To my amazement I came across this ayat
Surah Noah verse 23
- "And they have said (to each other), 'Abandon not your gods Abandon neither Wadd nor Suwa', neither Yaguth nor Ya'uq, nor Nasr
I thought let me check the names of these pagan deities of Noahs people and see what I cant find. I am unsure if brother pazuzu has ever come accross this but its one piece of a larger puzzle that only confirms his analysis.
"Wadd was a moon god worshipped in the Minaean kingdom (located in and around modern-day Yemen) of Southern Arabia from the fifth to first centuries BCE. His name meant Love and/or Friendship, and his sacred animal was the snake. "
(http//www.bythegods.net/post/556227042)
Yaguth
yaguth was a idol who was an object of contention among the tribes of Yemen and the name abd yaguth occurs in various parts of arabia, even in the tribe of Taghilib on the north eastern frontier, "had the shape of a lion"
Ya'uq and Suwa pagan deities of Yemen, inscriptions are still bound in temples and amulets in and around this region. Ya'uq was represented by a horse and Suwa was considered to be of antidilluvian times.
why do all these Gods of Noahs people occur in Yemen?
http//www.esamskriti.com/essay-chapters/The-Pagan-Arab-pantheon-2.aspx
Yes Wadd( not a bastardized word ), was the name of a pagan deity during the Minaen kingdom in and around modern day ----->Yemen<------- Not Iraq....
Keep up the work brother Pazuzu. SALAM!
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Thank you for this information.
Although I never bothered to look those up, I was 100% sure that the archeological evidence unearthed in Yemen, scarce as it may be, contained the names of those deities (particularly the Thamudic, Sheban, and Hadramutic tablets).
The link you posted bears mention of Ibn Kalbi. I have read passages from a very famous book of his, called "Al-Asnam" (The Idols), where he also mentions clans of pagans known very well in ancient Arabia by the name of "Al- Filist". These clans were centered in the geographical area stretching from Najran to mount Eban (Aban), a famous peak mentioned in the Torah as "Eban-Ezar". These Filists (the plural name in ancient Yemeni is "Filistim" - another name which appears clearly in the Torah), fought many bloody battles against David and Saul on the slopes of Mount Eban. The old Arabic poetry contains dozens of references to these legendary, bloody battles, where the poetic verses describe how blood was mixed with the snows of Eban. Ibn Kalbi describes their idol as a red-faced odditty with a large nose, carved into the mountain face. I am sure that the Saudis went "Taliban" on it when they found it.
These ancient history books sit on shelves gathering dust, and the Arabs of today don't bother to even flip through them.
You didn't actually fly off topic. I was going to mention Noah, Aad and Thamud towards the end of this thread. But I think I can jump ahead a little now and give you a small glimpse of what is to come
{And the one who believed (from among Far3oun's people) said "O my people, I fear for you the same fate as the day of the opponents * Like the fate of the people of Noah, Aad, and Thamud, and those after them. And Allah does not wish any injustice for the servants"}...
Here, we see a man from Far3oun's people warning them that they should reflect on the fates of those who came before them The people of Noah, Aad, and Thamud.
Obviously, these nations were located not far from Far3oun's citadel.Now how about this
{Are you surprised that a reminder has come to you from your Rabb through a man from among you to warn you? And remember that He made you successors after the people of Noah, and He increased you in status. So remember the grace of God, that you may succeed.}...
The above verse is telling us that the people of Aad were SUCCESSORS after Noah. This means that they could not have been geographically far from where Noah's people lived. This is why many commentators of the Quran, when they encountered the verses which describe how Aad built their homes in high, mountain places, came to the conclusion that they built such dwellings so they could be safe from floods in the future. So Allah destroyed them in a manner that was fitting of how they built their homes By a violent sandstorm.
And these events did not occur in Iraq.
So if Aad where successors of Noah's people, where did Noah live?
Besides the excellent proofs that Albodibran posted, the Quran gives another major clue which the Muslims have failed to grasp. Just before the great flood came, Allah gave Noah a sign that he should board the ship. What sign was that?
Here's the answer
{So, when Our command came and the TANNOUR erupted, We said "Carry in it a pair of two from each, and your family; except those against whom the word has been issued; and whoever has believed." But those who believed with him were few}...
The FM translation has rendered the word TANNOUR which appears in the above verse as "CHAMBER"..... ????? This is wrong and innacurate. The word "tannour" literally means "oven". There is a town in Lebanon called Batroun, famous for its "tannour bread". Every year, thousands of tourists from all around the world flock to this town to taste this legendary bread, which is prepared over clay OVENS (tannour). Interestingly, the word "TANNEEN" is the Arabic for "Dragon" (mythical creature that spits out FIRE).
Hence, the TANNOUR which erupted was a VOLCANO. This eruption was the sign for Noah to board the ship.
This means that Noah lived in a region that had volcanic peaks. This does not match the geography of Iraq. It matches perfectly with the geography of south west Arabia, and its strikingly dark, volcanic rocks, which the ancient Arabs called "Harrat"
Furthermore we have the following
{And remember that He made you successors after 'Aad, and He established you in the land so that you make palaces on its plains, and you carve homes in the mountains. So remember the grace of Allah and do not roam the earth as corrupters}...
Here, we see that Thamud were established as SUCCESSORS in the land after Aad, as stipulated by the Sunnah of Allah (nations succeeding each other). So, Thamud and Aad must have been in the same geographical region. Furthermore, Allah gave them the special she-camel as a sign to test them
{And O my people, this is the camel of Allah. In her you have a sign. So leave her to eat from Allah's earth freely, and do not harm her, or else a close retribution will take you.}...
So we have a volcanic region with fertile moutain slopes and valleys, and where CAMELS where domesticated and used for trade. We also have the insence , gum and mirrh trade routes mentioned in the story of Joseph in the Old testament.
Call me insane, but if that's not Arabia, then I don't know what is.
Again I ask you the question If the great flood was in Mesopotamia, why does the Torah mention that Hazaramaveth , Aden and Uzal (ancestral name of Sana'a) were among the sons of Noah? These are all cities in YEMEN, which existed at a time when Mecca was no more than a barren valley were wild beasts ran amock. Why does the Torah mention "Rabbah" (ancient name of Najran?)
Ever heard of the Yemeni city of Shebam? It has been called "The Manhattan of the Desert". This city is famous for skyscrapers built from mud. That's right.... MUD. There is not a single place on this whole Earth where you can see such structures.
Check out this link http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRLzevLD5SM&feature=related
The city of Shebam is mentioned (among other places found in Hamadani's Description of Arabia), in the Old Testament
"Ataroth, Dibon, Jazer, Nimrah, Heshbon, Elealeh, Shebam, Nebo, and Beon" (Numbers 3233)
Are you going to dismiss this as another coincidence?
The Great Flood is an ancient story which the Semitic peoples of Yemen took with them when they migrated to Mesopotamia, where it was recorded and recounted many times, in different versions.
{Is it not a guide to them (the people of Muhamad) how many generations We had destroyed before them, which they are walking now in their homes? In that are signs for the people of understanding}...
Muhamad and his people walked in the same homes of Ad, Thamud, Far3oun and Lot.
{Disbelieving before them (those who persecuted Muhamad) were the people of Noah, Aad, and Far3oun of the Pegs * And Thamud, and the people of Lot, and the dwellers of the Woods; these were the opponents}...
All these nations (including Far3oun) were in the same region, and their ruins where very near Muhamad and his people.
Finally, concerning the place where Moses (P) spoke with Allah, we have the following
{So when he came to it he was called "O Moses." * "I am your Rabb, so take off your slippers; you are in the holy valley (Tuwa)" * "And I have chosen you, so listen to what is being inspired." ....."Go to Far3oun, for he has transgressed."}...
My question to you is
Where is this valley in which Allah addressed Moses, and told him to go and confront Far3oun?
Was it the Nile valley?
The more I read the Quran, the stronger my conviction becomes that the current version of the story we have concerning the history of Arabia and the Israelites is an insane parody that does not fit no matter how much you twist and turn it. The deluded Muslims have gone on believing Jewish lies, which scattered the messengers of Allah all over the ancient world, and separated between father and son, and has led them to the following absurd conclusions
- Iraq is "Holy" because Abraham was born there (in Ur Kaledon which didn't even exist).
- Palestine is "Holy" because Abraham migrated to there, where he settled his wife Sarah, and his son, Isaac the Pure. (Because the Israelites were a "pure race" which descended from Heaven).
- Mecca is "Holy" because Abraham traveled there and settled his servant wench Hagar, and his bastard son, Ismael.
- The Nile Valley is "Holy" because Moses was there, and spoke to Allah.
(Applause and drums please!!)
The truth which they are refusing to accept is that all these events took place in what Allah called "the Towns", which were scattered around "the Mother of Towns".
Coincidence #4 The Zamzumim
We have to be careful not to mix historical truth with mythology. The Quran says they were "jabbareen" (meaning very powerful / mighty). It does not say they were physically giant in size. The Old Testament, however, (where 99% of Muslim beliefs come from) does mention giants
( 20 - That was also regarded as a land of giants; giants formerly dwelt there. But the Ammonites call them Zamzummim, 21 - a people as great and numerous and tall as the Anakim. But the LORD destroyed them before them, and they dispossessed them and dwelt in their place (Deuternomy 220,21)
It seems that the coincidence of "Zamzummim" (plural of Zamzum) will require more work than I first thought it would, because it will open many doors which will stray from the subject. For now, it is enough to know the following
1- The Ammonites mentioned in the above passage are none other than the Bani 3ammoun , who were the care-takers (stewards) of the Rabbah , the legendary Kaabah of Najran, which I will tell you about later. They were bitter enemies of David, who launched a campaign against them in the 11th Century BC, from his stronghold of Sayyoun (Zion), southwest of the city of Sana'a. (This was parallelled many centuries later by the mad Jewish Himyarite king, Zhu Nawwas - known to the Greeks and Romans as "Damianos" - who also sacked Najran and burned the Christians in the Trench there).
2- These Ammonites looked on their northern neighbours and rivals (among them the 3amaleeq) with contempt, and traded derogatory titles with them. This is a part of Arabian culture (mutual insults between the Adnanis of the North and the Qahtanis of the south). In fact, if you take a look at old the poetry of Arabia, you will see it full of wha is called "Mufakharat", where, for example, a poet from the Qahtani branch would write glorious stuff about his ancestors (showing off their glorious past and accomplishments) and insults on the Adnani branch (and vice versa).
3- The term "Zamzumim" is a derogatory title given by Bani 3ammoun to their northern neighbours of Asir and Hijaz, who where known for their worship of water springs. Little do the Muslims know that the well of Zamzam, which they flock to in Mecca every year, took its name from one of those springs. It is a PAGAN symbol which they have made "Holy", by attributing to the ridiculous story of Abraham (P), who came from the Levant and dropped off his servant girl and infant son there. The word "Zam" in fact, carries the meaning of "small" or "little". Hence, it is a derogatory, belittling title, given by the Ammonites of Najran, to their neighbours in the north, who thought themselves as "giants". (They were calling them "dwarf spring-worshippers", so to speak).
Incidently, the Quran advises believers not to label each other with derogatory titles, as they had done in the age of ignorance
{O you who believe, let not any people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors}...
Is the presence of a spring in Mecca called Zamzam, and the derogatory title of "Zamzumim" found on the Old Testament another coincidence?
To Be Continued...
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Bravo Pazuzu keep it up! Allah shower his blessings upon you
salam
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Thank you again Pazuzu the 1001 pieces Puzzle is becoming more and more complete, sun
In case of Sheban its not just amazing the buildings per si, but in fact the durabilty,the technics of construction and also the "mystic" envolving all the city..... even if someone doesnt know nothing of history its very easy look the photo of Actual Jerusalem and compere it to city of Shebaa ... in less than 5 seconds your eyes and heart will tell you wich one is the oldest..Keep going please bravo
Salaam/Paz
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Coincidence # 6 Hebron
(This is actually #6. I must have miscounted earlier on)
There are less than 1,000 Jewish settlers living in the town of ?Al-Khaleel? today, most of them having come from Europe or the USA, and they have been turning the lives of some 20,000 Palestinians into a veritable hell. These settlers, under the influence of the imperialist and orientalist interpretation of the Torah, absolutely REFUSE to believe the poor, simple Palestinians, who have never stopped telling the glaring truth, even though they do not have the linguistic or geographical proof to back their claims That Al-Khaleel is and has always been an Arab town, and was never known by the name of ?Hebron?, and that the name ?Hebron? which appears in the Torah has absolutely nothing to do with the geography of Palestine whatsoever, no matter how long the archeologists search for it.
But their cries have fallen on deaf ears, as the imperialists and orientalists have continued to imagine Palestine and its towns as the ancient theater of events mentioned in the Old Testament. And this imagination has led to unpardonable injustices and persecutions, which the conspiring West and the Zionist Arab regimes have never so much as raised a finger against. Yet it is up to us to uncover the truth of the matter. We MUST believe the Palestinians for no reason other than that what they have been saying is the truth, even though they lack the evidence to back it up. Their blatant denial of the name ?Hebron? as being related to ?Al-Khaleel? stems from their firmly-rooted knowledge and familiarity with the land of their birth, passed down from generation to generation.
The Torah tells us that Abraham the Hebrew (?Hebrew? meaning - he who crossed over - - from the wilderness of Arabia, towards the lush mountain oases of the Sarat Mountains), after having settled for a while in the land of the so-called Canaanites (which we have previously proven were none other than the sedentary Bani Kanana tribe, whose domain was the mountain slopes along the Red Sea coast), witnessed the death of his wife Sarah, in a place called ?Kirjat-Arba? (spelled ?Kirjatarba? or ?Kirjatharba? in some translations). And it tells us that this place was also known as ?Hebron?, which appears as in the Orientalist Arab translations
And Sarah died in Kirjat-Arba; the same is Hebron in the land of Canaan and Abraham came to mourn for Sarah, and to weep for her (Genesis ? 232)
Now, since we have postulated that the ?Land of Canaan? was actually the ?Land of Kanana?, in South West Arabia, then, in order for our theory to be correct, we must find evidence of a place called Hebron in that location. It must have been a very well-known place, and mention of it must be found in old Arabian records. But first, we must bear in mind that the original Squared Aramaic letters (which the so-called ?Hebrew? language STOLE and claimed as its own), were originally silent letters, and did not include any vowels. So, if we were to render the word ?Hebron? as it appeared originally (before the Masorite priests perverted the text through their ?accentuation? of the letters), it would be in the form of ?Hbrn? - . We also have to show that the name was associated to a place called ?Kirjat-Arba?.
And here is where another shocking truth has been uncovered
The ancient tribe of Bani Kananah did in fact know of a location called ?Hbrn?, which was actually rendered sometimes as ?Hebran?, ( ) and sometimes as ?Hebra? ( ).
Now, if we compare with , we will see that in terms of Arabic structure, the word is actually the same, once we remove the vowel.
In fact, this place was so popular to the ancient Arabs of the Asir region, that they mentioned it on numerous occasions in their poetry.
Yemeni poet Zayd-al-Khayl al- Tai?i (who died in the 9th year of the Hijra and who was famous for his many travels northwards), mentioned the place in one of his poems
Another poet, Al-Rai?i al-Numairy, also mentions the same place
From our understanding of the descriptions of this place by the Arab poets, we can conclude that Hebran - Hebron was a mountainous place that had fallen into desolation since very ancient times, and had become a den of wild beasts.
Have you heard of the famous Arab Jewish Rabbi by the name of ?Kaab-ul-Ahbar? ?
In case you haven?t, here is a briefing on him He was a prominent Jewish figure who lived during the time of Muhammad (p), and later ?embraced? Islam during the time of Abu Bakr. He was a Yemeni Himyarite Jew, most probably hailing from Sana?a - the capital of Judaism in Arabia. His title actually means ?the Kaab of the Clergy? - meaning the center/head / most prominent of their order. (This is an important clue as to what the word ?Kaaba? actually means). He is even mentioned in the Jewish Encyclopedia.
Here?s the link http//www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/9105-ka-b-al-ahbar
Arab geographer Yaqoot al Hamwi (volume 2 - pages 244,245) relates to us the following concerning this Jewish Rabbi
" (ع ...."
Here is what al-Hamwi is telling us
"According to Kaab?ul Ahbar, The first to ever be buried in ?Hebra? was Sarah, wife of Abraham, who had lived in the general area, and who had bought the place for 50 Dirhams"
Now of course, we cannot be 100% sure that this story was in fact true. I have already told you that history is often mixed with legends. And commentators generally agree that many stories tend to attribute legendary events to actual real places. The poets of ancient Yemen did NOT invent place names in their poetry. This is because ?crying at the ruins? was deeply imbedded in their culture, and was a means of expressing sadness over long-lost glories and places that had turned to dust (the tented homes of their lovers, desert oasies, tribes that migrated away, etc...). They were showing emotion to long-bygone days, and VERY real places. This "crying" was later incorporated into Jewish culture, which we see in their ?Wailing Wall" ritual - further proof of where Judaism originated. So although the EVENT of Sarah?s death and burial somewhere in the desolation of Hebron-Hebran-Hebra may have been a local legend, the actual location was very much a real place. Or else how can we explain its mention attributed to a prominent Jewish religious figure, as related to us in the writings of a geographer of the caliber of Al-Hamwi?
Furthermore, the fact that the Jewish Rabbi of the 6th/7th Century A.D, Kaab -ul-Ahbar, knew of the story/legend of Abraham burying his wife (and then later on being buried HIMSELF) in a place called ?Hebra?, makes it very difficult to dismiss that he was not familiar with the place, and with the geography of the Torah in general. Furthermore, a Yemeni Jewish priest like Kaab - a real Semitic Jew - is more qualified to tell us where Hebran was located than all the Rabbis of Poland, Russia, and Lithuania, who are KHAZARI Jews of no relation whatsoever to the Children of Israel.
And if the Hebron of the Torah is indeed the town of Al-Khaleel in today?s Palestine, then why would Kaab, who was a YEMENI, mention it? Why would the Arab poets mention it? What relation did they have to Palestine?
Better yet, why is there a Hadith in Islamic folklore, which says that the prophet Muhammad (P), gave Tamim-al-Dari (one of the so-called ?companions?) a piece of land in a place called ?Hebran?, near ?Wadi al- Qura? (Valley of the Towns), some 300 kilometers south of Mecca?
What does the word ?Kirjat-Arba? mean? Could it be perhaps THE FOUR TOWNS? (The word ?Kirjat? is the same as ?Qiryat?, meaning ?town?. This is one of the thousands of words that the so-called Hebrew ?borrowed? from Arabic). Look at the map of ?Israel? today, and you will see names of towns that begin with ?Qiryat? (examples include Qiryat Shemona, Qiryat Yam, Qiryat Tivon, etc?). This phenomena also existed in Arabia, and continues until this day. The word, in the Eloquent (Arabic) is ?qaryah? .
Reflect please?on where the events of the Old Testament took place?
And if you?re still not convinced, here?s another one for you
Coincidence # 7 Macphela
What is even more shocking is that the Torah, in its mention of Abraham?s wife Sarah, talks about a cave by the name of ?Macphelah?, which served as a burial site. Here are the words of Abraham (P) himself, as reported by the Torah
That he may give me the cave of Machpelah, which he hath, which is in the end of his field; for as much money as it is worth he shall give it me for a possession of a burying place amongst you (Genesis ? 239)
To summarize the story, is appears that Abraham bought a small patch of prairie land and a nearby cave somewhere in the desolate wilderness of Hebran-Hebra, from a man named Ephron son of Sohar. (The Arabic rendering of the name is 3afroun bin Sawhar - I think it?s a no-brainer). And, as was the old Yemeni tradition, buried his wife in the cave, which the Torah calls ?Macphelah?.
In his book ?The Bible Came from Arabia?, Kamal Salibi, who visited the region of Hebran in Saudi Arabia, in the early 1980?s, and spoke with the locals there, brings to our attention the following
In the area surrounding Al-Qunfudha, precisely, there exists today four towns whose names begin with ?Qaryat?. They are Qaryat Al-Seelan ( ن, Qaryat Al-Sheyyab( ب, Qaryat Assia ( ة and Qaryat A?amer ( ر. In their vicinity is another town named Al-Miqfalah (ة, which still carries the same ancient Biblical name Makphelah. And I visited all these places myself, and verified their existence side by side. This is concerning the precision of the geographical setting of the Book of Genesis, when it is interpreted in light of the map of Arabia.
Below is an old map of the region taken from a Saudi gazetteer in 1977. You can see the town of Al-Miqfalah, barely 50 kilometers east of Al-Qunfudha, a once prominent Saudi town on the Red Sea coast, some 300 Km south of Mecca. Not only that, but the region ?coincidently? happens to be mountainous, and full of caves, and the stories of prophets buried there have been local legends for centuries uncounted.
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/MapY-1.jpg
Old map of the Asir region, showing the site of al-Miqfalah (in relation to Makkah)
Blue circle Miqfalah
Red circle Al-Qunfudha
Orange circle Misrama
Black square MakkahOf course, no one in the world listens to these legends, as the memories of the people living in Asir and Yemen are viewed as no more than baseless ranting. Instead, the world has gone on imagining Palestine as the theater of events that never happened there - events which archeologists have disproved time and time again.
The ruins in the Asir region (which the Zionist Saudis have been hiding from the public media), date back to as early as 3500 BC. The towns in that region (the ?Qaryats?) have maintained their names at least since the 7th Century BC. So you can bet that the name ?Miqfalah? existed since the Babylonian exile era, when the Jewish scribes corrupted the Torah for the first time, distributing "Promised Lands" to their descendants as a revenge on the world for the suffering and destruction that were perpetrated against them by the Assyrians (Remember REAL places as theaters for possibly legendary events).
It also shows you how all the descendants of Abraham (P) actually lived in the same region, and that the ridiculous stories that the Muslims believe in, which separate between Abraham?s progeny, placing some in the Levant and others in Arabia are all LIES.
The very scarce archeological digs in Yemen, for example, have demonstrated the habit of burial in caves since the most ancient of times. This agrees with the old traditions of that country, as well as their legends (for example, there are folk stories in Yemen, transmitted from generation to generation, telling of the burial of the Prophet Hud in a cave north of Hadramaut. Also, the prophet Shuaib is believed to be buried in a cave located in a mountain that was named after him Jabal al Nabi Shuaib, which happens to be the tallest peak in all of Arabia). You can read about these legends in such books as ?Al Tijan fi Muluk Himyar" (The Crowns of the Kings of Himyar) by Wahb bin Manbah, and ?Akhbar al Yemen? (Tales from Yemen) by Obaid bin Sharia al Jurhumi. The burial of prophets, kings and heroic figures in caves have been a part of Yemeni culture for many generations.
Coincidence # 8 Mamre
We have seen so far, that Abraham migrated from his original homeland, which was NOWHERE near Iraq, towards a land that Allah described as ?blessed to the worlds?. This blessing existed since the time of Abraham (around 1700 BC), and had nothing to do with Jerusalem (which didn?t even exist back then), nor with Mecca (which also didn?t exist), and certainly had nothing to do with Christianity nor Judaism. It was land full of trees, fruits, flowing mountain streams, and immense resources. By now, you have probably figured out where that mountainous land was.
Allah led the Patriarch to the location of the Sacred Valley - The Bayt. (The same valley in which Allah would later address Moses, on the slopes of "al-Tur". And there, very near to that valley, Abraham set up his tents.
But what was the original place he settled in called? (According to the Torah).
Let?s read
Then Abram removed his tent, and came and dwelt in the oaks of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and built there an altar unto the LORD (Genesis ? 131
A bit further down we have
So the field of Ephron which in Machpelah, which before Mamre, the field and the cave which in it, and all the trees that in the field, which within all the surrounding borders, were deeded (Genesis - 2317)
Mamre, which is in Hebron, and near Macphelah?
Has the city of Al-Khaleel in current-day Palestine ever been connected to a place called Mamre? I defy anyone on this planet to bring me proof of this claim. The Palestinians themselves, who lived in that land for generations until the KHAZAR PIRATES came and took it from them, have never heard of the name ?Mamre? in association with the occupied city of Al-Khaleel. Their elders know very well that this mysterious name was introduced by force onto their land.
But the Bani Kananah of Arabia knew of such a place. And they sang many legends about it in their poetry, describing it as wilderness place where ancient Arab heroes and warriors would rest in the shade of trees, and where mystics and oracles would commune with the gods.
In fact, the Torah relates to us an extraordinary event that took place in that copse of oak trees. Here it is
Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, 3 and said, "My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. 4 "Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. 5 "And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant." They said, "Do as you have said." 6 So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah and said, "Quickly, make ready three measures of fine meal; knead and make cakes." 7 And Abraham ran to the herd, took a tender and good calf, gave to a young man, and he hastened to prepare it. 8 So he took butter and milk and the calf which he had prepared, and set before them; and he stood by them under the tree as they ate. 9 Then they said to him, "Where Sarah your wife?" So he said, "Here, in the tent." 10 And He said, "I will certainly return to you according to the time of life, and behold, Sarah your wife shall have a son." (Sarah was listening in the tent door which behind him.) 11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old, well advanced in age; Sarah had passed the age of childbearing. 12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, "After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?" 13 And the LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh, saying, 'Shall I surely bear since I am old?' 14 "Is anything too hard for the LORD? At the appointed time I will return to you, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son." (Genesis 18 1 - 14)
This same story appears in the Quran, albeit in slightly different details.
1- No names of places are mentioned, nor any copse of oak trees.
2- The name of the wife who laughed as she received the tidings is not mentioned.
3- The guests who visited Abraham were very unusual in appearance and behaved very strangely, causing Abraham to have some fear in his heart.
4- The guests did not even touch the food.Here is the uncorrupted version of this story
{Has the narrative of the noble guests of Abraham come to you? * When they entered upon him, they said ?Peace!?. He said ?Peace, O people unknown! * Then he went to his family and brought a fat calf. * He offered it to them, he said ?Do you not eat?? * He then became fearful of them. They said ?Do not fear?, and they gave him good news of a knowledgeable son * His wife then approached in amazement. She slapped upon her face, and said ?A barren old woman!?}?
Elsewhere in Allah?s book, we read the same story again, and get a new perspective (note how the two perspectives complete each other, forming an independent whole)
{And Our messengers came to Abraham with good news, they said "Peace" He said "Peace," and he made no delay in bringing a roasted calf * But when he saw that their hands did not reach towards it, he mistrusted them, and he began to have fear of them. They said "Have no fear, we have been sent to the people of Lot? * And his wife was standing, so she laughed when We gave her the good news of Isaac, and after Isaac, Jacob. * She said "O my! Shall I give birth when I am an old woman, and here is my husband an old man? This is indeed a strange thing!" * They said "Do you wonder at the decree of Allah? The mercy and blessings of Allah are upon you O people of the Sanctuary. He is Praiseworthy, Glorious."?
We understand, from the above, that the guests of Abraham were unfamiliar and behaved strangely. The word that Abraham used to describe them was ?munkaroon? (plural of munkar), which means simply that strange / unknown / unfamiliar. Also, not eating the food of the host was considered an insult (and still is), in Arabian culture. We also understand that Lot?s town was nearby, and that the messengers were going there to bring down the wrath of Allah on that place. So, Lot?s town is not far from Hebran - Hebra, which itself is near the Oaks of Mamre (sometimes spelled ?Mamra?), which is also near the Kirjat-Arba (the ?Four Towns?). The region is no more than 300 KM south of Mecca.
Please keep this in mind, for later on, when we finally pinpoint where Muhammad (P) was initially located.
What do the ancient Arab poets say about Mamre-Mamra?
Read this and gawk
Yemeni poet A?mr bin Maad Yakreb (more famous by the name Karb al-Zubaidi) wrote
He is remembering past events of a great battle that took place between the tribes of Hamadan and Zubaid (the poet?s own tribe), where their foes, the Hamadani warriors, took refuge in a mountainous vale full of trees. And the day of that battle was called ?Yawmu Mamra? (The Day of Mamra). The verse also mentions the very famous Asiri tribe of Mazen (These events took place during the first or second century A.D. at the latest). In fact, the tribe of Bani Mazen in southern Saudi Arabia, were located in and around the city of Abha, and the name is still - until today - very famous there. If you don?t believe me, type in (Bani Mazen) in the search bar, and see what you get DOZENS of links associating this tribe to the city of Abha, which is 2000 Km above sea level (it will only work if you make the search in Arabic ). Where is Abha? Look at the map below, and see how close this town is to the region depicted in the previous map
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/MapX.jpg
Blue circle Al-Qunfudha
Red circle Abha
Green circle Najran
Black circle MakkahAnother poet, known simply as "Zhul-Rimma", also mentions the same legendary place - The warrior?s solace of Mamra.
Note how often the Yemenis use the pronoun ?Zhu? or "Zhul" in their names. Over 30 Yemeni kings were labeled as ?Zhul - something" ( Zhul? Azhar , Zhu Nawwas , Zhu Raydan, Zhu Jayhan, etc? ). Also, prophet "Zhul? Kifl" mentioned in the Quran was obviously a Yemeni. What about "Pharaoh"? The Quran calls him "Far?oun Zhul? Awtad" , meaning Far?oun of the Tent Pegs (denoting he was no more than a tribal chief).
The list goes on and on?
Every time you encounter a name that begins with ?Zhul? or ?Zhu?, you can rest assured it?s Yemeni.
Here?s what "Zhul? Rimma" says about Mamre-Mamra. If you can read Arabic, you will immediately note how outstanding the description is
I just wish you folks could read what I?m reading, because this is absolutely earth-shattering.
No words in English can do justice to these timeless verses?poetry that comes from the soul. In the second line, he is describing the desolate grove of Mamre as a location to the south of the resting place of the Heroes of Yemen (The cavern graveyards). In the third line, he describes how difficult and treacherous the mountain paths leading to it can be. Finally, in the fourth line he describes the vestiges of an Ethiopian campaign in the region, and the destruction it left behind. Does this ring a bell? Who was the leader of this Ethiopian excursion against the south of Arabia? (Scratch your heads a little, and you?ll get the answer. This is another major clue as to where Muhammad was located).Here is what a third poet, Kaab bin Zuhair (a pre- Islamic poet) says of this legendary tree grove
Again, we have a description of ?Mamra of the Sarat??In the heart of Asir?The greenest, most fertile, and most river-abundant region in all of Arabia, and in the past, the heart of the incense and myrrh trade routes that ran along the slopes of the Sarat Mountains.
It is the same region and the same trade routes mentioned in the story of Joseph.
And they sat down to eat a meal. Then they lifted their eyes and looked, and there was a company of Ishmaelites, coming from Gilead with their camels, bearing spices, balm, and myrrh, on their way to carry down to Misraim (Genesis 3725)
And their father Israel said to them, "If so, then do this Take some of the best fruits of the land in your vessels and carry down a present for the man -- a little balm and a little honey, spices and myrrh, pistachio nuts and almonds (Genesis 4311)
If there is any land in ancient history (before Jerusalem...before Mecca...before Christianity and Judaism) that was blessed to the world, that would be it. There is not a single spot on this entire planet where you will find the names Mamre - Hebran - Miqfalah - all together bundled up in the same region, other than Asir.
Asir , the theater of the Old Testament, was the cradle of all civilizations, and the land of the prophets. And the Muslims who keep insisting that the Levant was the land of the prophets are deluded to the point of insanity.
And the story of Abraham and Sarah, their tribulations and wanderings in the wilderness looking for a place to settle, their digging of the ?Well of Fullness? (Bir? Shabba3a), at the Holy Bayt (the sacred vale where Adam first descended from the earthly paradise high up in the Sarat Mountains) is a 100% ancient Arabic folkloric tale that has been told and retold by the people of that region for over 3000 years.
It has nothing to do with Palestine whatsoever. And the Palestinians have been right all along. The city of Al-Khaleel is NOT the Hebron of the Torah.
And God only knows who is buried there in that catacomb they call ?The Tomb of Abraham?.
http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/HebronCaveOfMachpelah.jpg
The alleged site of Abraham's tomb in "Hebron", Palestine
Could all these be coincidences?
To Be Continued..
(Next, we will look at the issue of Lot, and the peoples of Ad and Thamud.
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Thank you Pazuzu! handshake
Brilliant as always! sun
bravo bravo bravo
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Peace,
What about "Pharaoh"? The Quran calls him "Far?oun Zhul? Awtad" , meaning Far?oun of the Tent Pegs (denoting he was no more than a tribal chief).
So he owned all the tent pegs? This bible thumping thread is getting more bizarre.
786 did not We made the earth spacious
787 and the mountains awtada (obviously mountain peaks look like inverted spikes)http//media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/42/4e/f6/jabal-noor.jpg
Similarly talks about structures and the people associated with them?
899 and Thamud the ones who carved the rock in the valley
8910 and Pharaoh owner al-awtad (obviously the pyramids look like inverted spikes)http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/All_Gizah_Pyramids.jpg/640px-All_Gizah_Pyramids.jpg
Care to answer history of Yemen from Abraha to when they turned to Islam -- what years?
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/fig04_sabaean.htm
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/figs-stones/large/color_lg_jpeg/fig04_c_lg.jpg
Translation
With help The Powerful, and Messiah
King Abraha Zeebman, King
Saba'a, and Zuridan and Hadrmaut -
Peace Pazuzu,
This is my first time reading your posts. I'm grateful that I have stumbled across them today as they are very enlightening. Thank you for all of your dedication into bringing the truth out from what the Yahudis have forged and from what the Muslims blindly accept. May Allah shower you with blessings and may He allow you to continue to bring sight to the blind.
Peace
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This is pretty amazing stuff from Pazuzu. Exceptional research.
I can proudly say that I've read every post from the Muhammad's location thread, to here. Eye-opening reads.
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Misfalah - Near Ibrahim Al-Khaleel Street, Makkah, Saudi Arabia
Macphelah - Cave of Abraham, Mamre, Kirjatharba, Al-Khaleel, Hebron, Palestin
Miqfalah - Near Mimra, near qiryat arba', near qunfudha, Saudi ArabiaAnother case of lisan arabi vs lisan ajami as well tayammuni.
Any input appreaciated...