Film Making and encouraging haram?

Aryan_Warrior

So I am a film maker or at least becoming one. I have been thinking about some of the dangers in terms of "encouraging haram" O_O

So basically the type of films or shows I like making are more sitcom like ones which depict western life (considering I live in the west) therefore the show would have the characters involved in haram material such as alcohol, sex (not physically showing it but rather more talking about who they were with) or eating pork and further and further on. I wouldn't be showing these characters as being muslims or even religiously devoted people in the first place and would be made for the western audience and not for the momin. Basically it would be a lot like Seinfeld.

Basically my worry here is that would this be considered as "encouraging haram", though I would assume that each person is judged based on their own actions, thus if someone saw it and did something based on it while others didn't, it would be their own fault for doing their haram no? and my intention is definitely not to encourage haram and rather just bring up some laughter and realism.

And I don't wanna hear the usual comments I hear from muslims such as "how do those things add to the story" as this is a comedy and the usual western life I try to depict.

Also if someone can back up their claim using verses, I would be most happy.

Also how does Allah judge someone who "encourages haram" even though he wouldn't persist in it himself and knows it is a sin. It isn't shirk or kufr right?

Thanks

herbman

Salam, Peace,

personaly I think as long as it is a fiction you can do what ever imagination tells you
for example when I see characters like De Niro, Mel Gibson etc eating pork or drinking alcohol or having sex or even killing, I am not "following" their examples because I personaly take it as a pure fiction, it is not reality however I know that some people are very likely to be "influenced" by these characters.

So in "responsability" point of view I don't know if the film maker is responsible or not.

By the way in the US there was this "young guy" shooting people in shopping center and they said in the news he was influenced by what ever action movie (I think it was in the 80's with miami vice), or even action video games eg Gran Theft auto etc etc!!!

Aryan_Warrior

Salam, Peace,

personaly I think as long as it is a fiction you can do what ever imagination tells you
for example when I see characters like De Niro, Mel Gibson etc eating pork or drinking alcohol or having sex or even killing, I am not "following" their examples because I personaly take it as a pure fiction, it is not reality however I know that some people are very likely to be "influenced" by these characters.

So in "responsability" point of view I don't know if the film maker is responsible or not.

By the way in the US there was this "young guy" shooting people in shopping center and they said in the news he was influenced by what ever action movie (I think it was in the 80's with miami vice), or even action video games eg Gran Theft auto etc etc!!!

So say I was to place a disclaimer on the front of the movie that it is pure fiction and people should not follow their example, would that safe guard me? but then again I might not have control of that if i'm simply a writer then. So should I worry at all? or if these people end up following these works of fiction, blame would be on them right?

So then how is "encouraging haram" viewed? would Allah place blame on the person who did the encouraging even though he knows that action to be haram? and it wouldn't be on the scale of kufr or shirk right?

Jafar

For sectarians or for those who were born, raised and lived in a deep traditional sectarian culture (such as myself) the image of 'pork', 'free sex' and 'alcohol' are always 'bad' and 'evil' in a sense that it is 'more evil than murder or torture'...

So let's take another example with similar theme...

Let say you're making a semi fiction-historical movie about Vlad Tepez the notorious romanian impaler..
And within that movie you showed many horrific scenes such as impalement, beheading , mass murdering, burning people alive etc.. But you put a certain 'angle' which somewhat shows Vlad Tepez as a 'hero' because he did so in order to defend his homeland from Ottoman Turkish onslaught.. and you showed how his character develop over time due to his childhood years spent in Turkish prison where he learn all of that 'torturing techniques'..

In any ways.. I would not see you as 'encouraging' people to do such horrific things although you portrait Vlad as 'hero', but again this depend on the audience perspective. There could be some other audience which see you as 'encouraging people' to do horrific things as Vlad did. And they too entitled for their own opinion and perspective.

And how does God sees that? Well I believe He knew your true intention of making such movie and He will judge you based on that...

And this goes the same way with your 'sitcom' of eating pork, alcohol and talking about sex in it. And truly eating pork, alcohol and talking about sex are actually 'much lighter' than 'beheading, torture, impalement and burning people to death.

In both cases I would recommend to put "Parental Advisory" label and mark the movies strictly not for children..

Salam / Peace

herbman

So say I was to place a disclaimer on the front of the movie that it is pure fiction and people should not follow their example, would that safe guard me? but then again I might not have control of that if i'm simply a writer then. So should I worry at all? or if these people end up following these works of fiction, blame would be on them right?

So then how is "encouraging haram" viewed? would Allah place blame on the person who did the encouraging even though he knows that action to be haram? and it wouldn't be on the scale of kufr or shirk right?

Let me take another example so you question can be generalised for other fiels aswell.

I am an engineer and I invented a vehicule e.g. a car, how can I be sure 1000 of young people will kill themselve by using it, or kill other people life and breaking famillies falling in tragedies like it happens everyday?

another one, I create a weapon, initially for selfdefense, am I responsible for people using it to kill others?

I guess the answer is every one is responsible for his own deeds, but I cannot be directly responsible of what others do with my creation, otherwise non one will create anything because of the fear of what others will do with it.

IAMOP

Peace
2225 shows you the way of ALLH

{225}
Allah does not call you to account for what is vain in your oaths, but He will call you to account for what your hearts have earned, and Allah is Forgiving, Forbearing.

As long as the intention is clean then you are good to go.

Guard your intentions with intelligence and wisdom. Because good is like fire, annihilating all the darkness in its path. But evil is like water, it seeps through the cracks we forget to patch up!

Peace

Aryan_Warrior

wow guys thank you so much ^_^ so as long as I don't intend to tell people "YOU PEOPLE IN REAL LIFE DO THIS STUFF!" I am not responsible then

Traditionalists sure frowned on it when I mentioned this sometime ago, but I guess it has a lot to do with the idea of how they say men and women shouldn't be next to each other whatsoever as their hadiths say.

and yes for sure I would place at least a PG-13 or R.

BTW I really liked your examples

Ozi_Kristi-lee

Allah knows better, but i will tell u as i was growing up, the tv i gues "brainwashed" me to think i hav to dress, look and act the way they do on tv. this is the impacts on a young teenager, that is all too common. But there r still affects in older ppl too. For instance i am a convert, and if i see something on tv that is similar to wat i use to do, then i think of all this thoughts like drinking, partying ect. do u wnt to be apart of that? u dnt wnt to b responsible for fuling the desires in people for sex, alcohol or drugs etc. I do not have a Quran handy with me right now to give u verses, but i know Allah would not approve tempting and provoking people, which im afraid would. Allah knows best.

ok alot of us dnt follow hadith so we dnt have to live by alot of silly rules, but lets not get too carried away. Be an example of a Muslim

Aryan_Warrior

Allah knows better, but i will tell u as i was growing up, the tv i gues "brainwashed" me to think i hav to dress, look and act the way they do on tv. this is the impacts on a young teenager, that is all too common. But there r still affects in older ppl too. For instance i am a convert, and if i see something on tv that is similar to wat i use to do, then i think of all this thoughts like drinking, partying ect. do u wnt to be apart of that? u dnt wnt to b responsible for fuling the desires in people for sex, alcohol or drugs etc. I do not have a Quran handy with me right now to give u verses, but i know Allah would not approve tempting and provoking people, which im afraid would. Allah knows best.

ok alot of us dnt follow hadith so we dnt have to live by alot of silly rules, but lets not get too carried away. Be an example of a Muslim

You say not templing or provoking people, but that's not my intention. I'm not trying to glorify those things, they are there cause the setting is the west but i'm clearly not telling people to do that stuff, and rather just showing life in the west where they do this stuff. You say to me be an example muslim, but this show isn't even aimed at religion or muslims, so there is no example. If I wanted muslims to learn something, i'd throw in there an example muslim who is clean and good too. I'm not aiming it to a muslim nor would I have any submitters as characters who do such things. So how would that be the case then? It's as the examples say above say A car can be used to kill people, but that's only if misdone. I've watched tons and tons of TV in my life and I don't drink or fornicate, thus if someone does that wouldn't it be on them for wanting to?

So if someone does this stuff here, wouldn't it be his burden? I didn't tell that person to drink. If he is that weak and does it on his own, wouldn't it be his fault? It's a work of fiction not a how to live video.

plus as the brother above said pointed out the verse

"225}
Allah does not call you to account for what is vain in your oaths, but He will call you to account for what your hearts have earned, and Allah is Forgiving, Forbearing.
"

I would have no intention of turning people to these things, I just intend to make them laugh a little at what is going on in the western life that they regularly see and hear. If some weak person does it by just watching it when I didn't tell him to do so, it would be himself telling himself to do it no? He could see a car and jump into one and drive a person over? Is the creator of that Honda responsible? no. Say someone grabs this nice clay cup you made and drinks alcohol from it, would you be responsible? no he did it himself.

A muslim who knows the rules knows not to do these things and if he does, he is sinning on his end.

What do the other brothers have to say here?

Ozi_Kristi-lee

Brother, cars were not invented for ppl to die, they were invented so ppl can travel, so this is not an example. I know ur intentions r good, but y cnt u make a comedy about Muslims or I dunno, cats or something. Another thing I point out, the whole "western". Like not all westerns do the stuf u wna film bout so yea.

Also if u find drinking, sex, etc "funny" fear Allah

herbman

Salam, Peace,

a women is in town's administration, the civil servant ask her

how many children do you have
10
and what are they names
Ben, Ben, Ben,Ben....Ben
but how do you do when you call them for dinner
easy I call Ben then they all come for dinner
but , but when you want to send them in the bed room
easy I call them Ben go to sleeping room, and they all go.
Yeah but I mean when you want to speak to one in particular?
easy I call them by their father's name

This is a joke, it could be a movie or an entire book I am not giving this as an example for women peace

Aryan_Warrior

Brother, cars were not invented for ppl to die, they were invented so ppl can travel, so this is not an example. I know ur intentions r good, but y cnt u make a comedy about Muslims or I dunno, cats or something. Another thing I point out, the whole "western". Like not all westerns do the stuf u wna film bout so yea.

Also if u find drinking, sex, etc "funny" fear Allah

and yet movies were invented for people to learn to haram? NO, they were invented to ENTERTAIN, not try to influence people to do haram. oh and I know what you'll say next, you'll say that some people try to angle their films to influence people, well same with cars in that they might jump in it and run over people or shoot someone from the side window and drive off. You say make it about muslims? I live IN THE WEST, most are not muslims there I don't have a target audience and thus I make one for the general audience who sees this stuff daily especially since one is trying to get an accurate portrayal of the west down.

So if some of these guys aren't eating pork, aren't drinking alcohol, aren't trying to get dates, then clearly that is not what you normally see in the west as it is common for them to try to do these stuff otherwise it would be the middle east.

and you assume that the central theme is drinking, sex and such but NO as that would be glorifying them and I don't want to glorify them. Those will be mentioned or you might see them casually talking about it or consuming it, but it wouldn't try to say "ALCOHOL IS GOOD!!!!" These guys might try to find dates and sometimes want sex even but that is a common thing about the west. It's simply an accurate portrayal of the west. Just watch Seinfeld, that was accurate.

Oh and i'm sure you will now go onto repeat yourself on it still "encouraging haram" well then lets look at the rest of society.

-A woman walking down the street!? That can really raise lust, lets throw a GIANT burqa on them.... actually lets confine them to homes just to be on the safe side.
-You are working in a clothing store? leather pants raise lust! Quit the job!
-You are working at McDonalds? well quit that too cause that sells pork somewhere between its fries and chicken.
-You own a car? Give that up as someone might be influenced to commit suicide by jumping front of it.
-You keep alcohol for medical purposes? throw that away! your husband or some neighbour might just drink.
-You invented a new weapon for self-defence? destroy it as someone might take it and use it for offense.
-You play with Yu-Gi-Oh card in order to have fun? TOO BAD, your brother might take those and use them for gambling.

What do you say now? as clearly everyone has the right intention, but if someone comes in and does wrong with it, would he not be the one to blame? As a muslim born and raised and just as with all the other muslims I know in the west, we grew up with TV and all these stuff but we have been careful never to actually engage in the acts that are shown. If someone decides to skip out and follow fiction, then wouldn't that be his own problem? and thats only a muslim we are talking about, you're average westerner would likely already be fine with these things as is as he doesn't even have Islam to him not to do this stuff, whether it be that he is irreligious or of the different faith like Christianity which allows alcohol.

and brothers what do you say on this?

Student_of_Allah

Salam,

I dont think one can give you anything conclusive in this regard. However, I can share my thoughts based on my understandings.

Lets say a movie on war. You show how 3000 people are slayed by one man. It is murder that you are showing. But your motive is not to encourage murder or profit from it. So, the way I understand it is..its ok.

Now, another kind of example. Pornography for the sake of it. I personally think that I can have enough grounds to call it bad. I can actually do an analysis of such films on human mind and actions later in life. So, I would rather not engage in that kind of film making.

There are certain limitations to what I allow myself to see with my eyes without committing adultery in my heart. I would try to reflect that on screen too. Otherwise, I would feel a lot hypocritical to simply say that I am no pedophile, but I supply pedos with kids.

In this matter, you can actually get lots of help from scientists who have done works based on films and their impacts on society and human behavior later in life.

I hope that you come up with good films )

PEACE
--------------- Student of Allah

Aryan_Warrior

Salam, Peace,

a women is in town's administration, the civil servant ask her

how many children do you have
10
and what are they names
Ben, Ben, Ben,Ben....Ben
but how do you do when you call them for dinner
easy I call Ben then they all come for dinner
but , but when you want to send them in the bed room
easy I call them Ben go to sleeping room, and they all go.
Yeah but I mean when you want to speak to one in particular?
easy I call them by their father's name

This is a joke, it could be a movie or an entire book I am not giving this as an example for women peace

I lol'd XDD clearly the woman was with a lot of men, but doesn't mean the creator would be telling the audience and do the same. If someone does it is burden on the one who did the deed as the creator simply wanted to entertain using a simple western setting which has people fornicating like that. Good example by the way.

Salam,

I dont think one can give you anything conclusive in this regard. However, I can share my thoughts based on my understandings.

Lets say a movie on war. You show how 3000 people are slayed by one man. It is murder that you are showing. But your motive is not to encourage murder or profit from it. So, the way I understand it is..its ok.

Now, another kind of example. Pornography for the sake of it. I personally think that I can have enough grounds to call it bad. I can actually do an analysis of such films on human mind and actions later in life. So, I would rather not engage in that kind of film making.

There are certain limitations to what I allow myself to see with my eyes without committing adultery in my heart. I would try to reflect that on screen too. Otherwise, I would feel a lot hypocritical to simply say that I am no pedophile, but I supply pedos with kids.

In this matter, you can actually get lots of help from scientists who have done works based on films and their impacts on society and human behavior later in life.

I hope that you come up with good films

PEACE
--------------- Student of Allah

I agree, pornography definitely is something that is meant to directly influence on to do haram as in bring up sexual tension, though before you reply Ozi Kristi-lee, I know you will try call this "entertainment" as I referred to my sitcom as that, but mine is for laughter, this one is to actually raise lust.

Actually just the fact that one get two people to fornicate together was encouraging haram alone on screen.

but yeah I understand about limitations Student of Allah, but mine is on the scale of everyday life in the west one witnesses thus its not really any different from what one already sees and hears if they live in the west. Think Seinfeld, you wouldn't call that haram I would assume.

GROAN

Basically my worry here is that would this be considered as "encouraging haram", though I would assume that each person is judged based on their own actions, thus if someone saw it and did something based on it while others didn't, it would be their own fault for doing their haram no? and my intention is definitely not to encourage haram and rather just bring up some laughter and realism.

Salaam Aleikum Bro

I believe the pertinent ayah, from Al Quran, regarding your dilemma is the one below. If your films or sitcoms enjoin what is good and discourage what is evil I think God will be watching them with a benign smile. sun

Aal-e-`Imran Chapter 3 Verse 111
You are the best people raised for the good of mankind; you enjoin what is good and forbid evil and believe in Allah.

Aryan_Warrior

Salaam Aleikum Bro

I believe the pertinent ayah, from Al Quran, regarding your dilemma is the one below. If your films or sitcoms enjoin what is good and discourage what is evil I think God will be watching them with a benign smile. sun

Aal-e-`Imran Chapter 3 Verse 111
You are the best people raised for the good of mankind; you enjoin what is good and forbid evil and believe in Allah.

But that is talking about what WE do in real life, about the individual. Also whatever happened to the line "Everyone is responsible for their own sins" isn't that what applies here? I am simply showing reality with some comedy mixed into it and not telling them that these things are good. What do you say?

GROAN

But that is talking about what WE do in real life, about the individual. Also whatever happened to the line "Everyone is responsible for their own sins" isn't that what applies here? I am simply showing reality with some comedy mixed into it and not telling them that these things are good. What do you say?

Brother
You obviously have qualms about what you intend to do, and understandably so, because you will have a lot of pressure on you to make this sit com or whatever commercially viable and risk losing your integrity in the process. However you also have an opportunity here to have an impact for the greater good if you can package your films with a message that is good and not too obvious or hectoring. yes

Certainly everyone is responsible for their own sins but, and this is crucial, we also have a share in what ever evil we support and what ever good we encourage. Clearly you have an active conscience and you have a direct channel to God in your contact prayer so ask His guidance and then do what you can to promote the good and demote the evil through your films. May Allah guide you to what is best brother. pr

Ozi_Kristi-lee

Brother I'm sure u could spend ur time mor wisely, maybe by making a film about Islam for dawah ect. The world already uses cheap humor in the form of sex, dating, alcohol ect, so if ur a clever filmmaker, u cld make a film without the use of these. Salamunalaykom

Aryan_Warrior

Brother
You obviously have qualms about what you intend to do, and understandably so, because you will have a lot of pressure on you to make this sit com or whatever commercially viable and risk losing your integrity in the process. However you also have an opportunity here to have an impact for the greater good if you can package your films with a message that is good and not too obvious or hectoring. yes

Certainly everyone is responsible for their own sins but, and this is crucial, we also have a share in what ever evil we support and what ever good we encourage. Clearly you have an active conscience and you have a direct channel to God in your contact prayer so ask His guidance and then do what you can to promote the good and demote the evil through your films. May Allah guide you to what is best brother. pr

but if its reality? exactly what is pretty much done in reality that is?

-Like for example a Christian can drink, so if we see the Christian talking with someone while having a bottle of beer in his hand, is that "encouraging haram"? as I'd think that it is simply common knowledge and normal to see someone talking to you while doing that as I see my friends like that.
-What if they go into a restaurant and one of them orders bacon? Considering that pork is casually eaten by westerners.or you see the waiters serving alcohol to people. Common things that people do in the west.
-How about stuff in the background? like a bottle of alcohol in the background in the shelf of the one
-How about dating? considering we are Quranists, it isn't haram until it turns to Zina as men and woman are allowed to look at each other, hold hands and more tis long as it doesn't reach sex. So for example you have the characters wanting to date or looking for a date (first episode of my sitcom i'm writing actually)
-and what if the characters are portrayed as bad people that no one likes, would it then be okay as it is bad people doing that stuff?
-or if the characters do haram, it has some sort of consequence to it
-Say the character is in a mess or distressed and ends up taking a bottle of alcohol and starts drinking it
-what if the characters are backbiting each other? this would I think show that they aren't good people by just doing it and thus wouldn't be promoting it right?
-What if I threw a muslim character (Quranist) in the mix who in contrast to them lived our lifestyles.

Also how hefty is "encouraging haram"? If one encourages it, it is a smaller sin than the actual sin done by the person right? And if indirect like this if I were to go through with it would be even smaller I assume? and what is your view on Seinfeld as a result?

And if writing doesn't go so well, I got directing which would just have me directing what is given to me then write up the content.

Of course i'm still not convinced as my intentions are simply to portray reality, basically show New York City in its everyday life. Afterall bringing up the weapon example, one can make a weapon for defending mankind yet another can take it and use it against mankind. I wouldn't think the creator of the weapon is a sinner through indirect encouraging of haram as the one who took that and used it would be the one at fault.

Brother I'm sure u could spend ur time mor wisely, maybe by making a film about Islam for dawah ect. The world already uses cheap humor in the form of sex, dating, alcohol ect, so if ur a clever filmmaker, u cld make a film without the use of these. Salamunalaykom

but always about Islam will get tiring and considering being the west, such stories are never accepted by the media to be made into films.

And every film has some sort of sin taking place and every genre that isn't about islam has it somewhere in it too. That would mean film making is basically forbidden by that logic, which I know can't be the case. Tell me what do you think of Seinfeld then? You consider that haram even though it is every day life that is being shown? Nothing is out of the ordinary in there. The characters clearly sin but we know it and thus don't do it. There might be some that are weak and might sin cause they see the show, but that can be said about literally anything in this world. As long as I don't overdo it I think it would be fine. Like I shouldn't glorify those sins like alcohol or sex.
Regardless I also still got directing which isn't involved with writing the content, so i'd be fine there.

Aryan_Warrior

Also what if I were to throw a disclaimer on top? and is encouraging haram just a sin of a lesser scale compared to the sin the person has sin or would it be kufr or shirk?