Free Minds' Consensus on Hajj
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Just wondering what Free Minds (or the Monotheist Group) agree for the most part what "hajj" really is. I see that they define it as "Pilgrimage" as this forum's name is, but pilgrimage to where? How similar/different is their view of Hajj compared to the mainstream Sunni version?
Peace,
-M
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Shalom,
My current understanding is that its a journey to the Sacred Temple. The reason may be to reinforce the economy of the place where the Temple is. And ofcourse, a gathering of believers from all over the world. And I confess that I did not do much research to state any of it BOLDLY. Because there are far more important things to focus on at this point in my life.
Lets see what others think about it.
PEACE
---------------- Student of Allah -
Salam,
I see it as a physical journey to the Restricted Temple in Bacca to than God - over a limited number of days - for the blessings of the livestock He has bestowed upon us. A secondary objective is to meet and debate with people to share ideas and the blessings of God alone.
The difference between the Pilgrimage and the Sunni/Shia one is emmence
- They pilgrim to the wrong place;
- Their pilgrimage is full of pagan acts (circling the kaaba, kissing the stone, etc.).
- Their pilgrimage is only open for Muslims - whereas the call of Abraham was for all mankind;
- The timing of the pilgrimage is off as they perform it a few days after the cresent moon - whereas the Quran says it begins with the cresent moon - as is the month(s) completely off;
- Their is no debating or speakers at their pilgrimage - which goes against the meaning of the word;
- They impose specific dress codes not sanctioned by God.
I am sure there are a few more - but this is what came to the top of my mind.
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"Hajj is about the communities of the Muslim world connecting, (this would be assuming the communities were in existence of course) establishing joint projects, group community decisions, exchanging ideas, understandings, trade and brotherhood. But today no Islamic communities exist, the ignorance of the Christianised Muslims is so great they have allowed the usurious parasites to control their money, governments, education, media, militaries and manufacture religions, as they are fractured into sects, burdened with dogma, ritual and superstitions, they refuse to use their reason, and ignore the truth of Islam, in preference to the religion of Muslimism, based on Hadith and tradition."
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"Hajj is about the communities of the Muslim world connecting, (this would be assuming the communities were in existence of course) establishing joint projects, group community decisions, exchanging ideas, understandings, trade and brotherhood. But today no Islamic communities exist, the ignorance of the Christianised Muslims is so great they have allowed the usurious parasites to control their money, governments, education, media, militaries and manufacture religions, as they are fractured into sects, burdened with dogma, ritual and superstitions, they refuse to use their reason, and ignore the truth of Islam, in preference to the religion of Muslimism, based on Hadith and tradition."
Ouch, and how true.
Thanks, Layth, for your message two posts after mine, but I am still wondering as to why salat in the Monotheist translation (on Free Minds' home page) is defined as contact prayer, when before it was the bond. I thought contact prayer was only in the submitters' translation on submission.org. Are they the same as the Monotheist Group?
Peace,
-M
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Salam M,
Thanks, Layth, for your message two posts after mine, but I am still wondering as to why salat in the Monotheist translation (on Free Minds' home page) is defined as contact prayer, when before it was the bond. I thought contact prayer was only in the submitters' translation on submission.org. Are they the same as the Monotheist Group?
Salat has been a very tricky word to translate. You are correct, "Bond" was used at one point in time, but that was scrapped as the word did not make sence in some of the contexts - plus the word on its own did not convey the multi-dimension of Salat. I even gave up alltogether at one time and simply plugged in "Salat" in its Arabic form and said let the reader work it out! The choice of "Contact Prayer" was taken as having a better feel in most of the contexts and is, as you mentioned, coined by the Dr. Khalifa in his translation.
I have been thinking of "Recital" as an alternative which captures the spirit of the word in its many contexts - perhaps a poll can be run to get the feedback from the brothers and sisters on this forum as to the best fitting word.
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Peace everyone peace group
About Salat/Contact Prayer, i thnk i might have tjought about this disambiguation between "Contact Prayer" and Rashad khalifa's Translation. Nevertheless, when one ponders about the nature of Salat, and it's purpose (to remember God Almighty 2014), "Contact Prayer" seems to be a well definition, because The root of the word SALAT, means ~ to be in "Contact". (e.g the Disbelievers are in Contact with the Hell fire (Yisalonha) (1429).
Even in modern Arabic today, the verb to "Call" is to "Yatasil", or to be in contact. -
Peace everyone peace group
About Salat/Contact Prayer, i thnk i might have tjought about this disambiguation between "Contact Prayer" and Rashad khalifa's Translation. Nevertheless, when one ponders about the nature of Salat, and it's purpose (to remember God Almighty 2014), "Contact Prayer" seems to be a well definition, because The root of the word SALAT, means ~ to be in "Contact". (e.g the Disbelievers are in Contact with the Hell fire (Yisalonha) (1429).
Even in modern Arabic today, the verb to "Call" is to "Yatasil", or to be in contact.Allah manifests you from the inside-out, who are you contacting?
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Free-minds are still learning. Atleast they don`t claim jinn are "emotions" still, like they did in the beginning. Anyone see Equillibrium? A nasty scenario. Layth still thinks alcohol is legal.
etc. etc.
FM isn`t really that much different, or more right than many sects.
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Free-minds are still learning. Atleast they don`t claim jinn are "emotions" still, like they did in the beginning. Anyone see Equillibrium? A nasty scenario. Layth still thinks alcohol is legal.
etc. etc.
FM isn`t really that much different, or more right than many sects.
Your post is misleading. FM is not a sect but a forum for people to discuss and interpret quran.
Whatever Layth believes is his belief and interpretation.The Quran does not endorse or state that everyone will or should have the same opinion. Our purpose in life is to distinguise truth from falsehood and you will not find one sect right in the absolute sense so to say FM isn't really that much different from other sects to me implies you are seeking a sect that will give you the truth. Good luck with it because i can assure you that you won't find one.
PEACE
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My post is misleading says the most misleading of all. "you won`t find the truth". Coupled with statements that imply different "truths". Your deluded mind could not tell if I have already found the truth. Do you think there are "different truths" in heaven?
God IS the truth. To think that opinions may differ on truth, is to imply several gods. That is to COMPLETELY misunderstand the Quran. Your assurance is futile idiocy. AND YES, FM is much like a sect. They attract certain people, and most of them are shaytans. Just like a sect.Now you can accept that truth, and work to improve yourself. Or you can continue claiming absolute nonsense. The first is with God, the second is shaytanic.
And the greeting of peace should really follow good conduct. Not insults and mindless assurances.
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My post is misleading says the most misleading of all. "you won`t find the truth". Coupled with statements that imply different "truths". Your deluded mind could not tell if I have already found the truth. Do you think there are "different truths" in heaven?
God IS the truth. To think that opinions may differ on truth, is to imply several gods. That is to COMPLETELY misunderstand the Quran. Your assurance is futile idiocy.LOL nice butchering of my words to satisfy your self grandeur brother. As I said you won't find the truth whether its concepts or God in ONE SECT, one sect being the keyword so please don't go off on a tangent into metaphors.
I'm not doubting God is The Truth but to deny that shades of grey exist in a world full of colours suggests to me your (colour) blinded. sun (the sun should help) There are many truths and falsehoods in world of concepts which we are all 'fighting' out to get to The Truth/God. So yes conceptually there are many "truths" which make up the whole/God
AND YES, FM is much like a sect. They attract certain people, and most of them are shaytans. Just like a sect.
If by certain people you mean those that which want to study the quran then so what? But likeness of a sect does not imply the two are one and I see more diversity in thinking on this forum than many other forums of quranic study.
Now you can accept that truth, and work to improve yourself. Or you can continue claiming absolute nonsense. The first is with God, the second is shaytanic.
And the greeting of peace should really follow good conduct. Not insults and mindless assurances.
Absolute nonsense? LOL the irony.
I will take your advice on peace then
PEACE handshake
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Attacking the god of the sect, FM, makes their inhabitants uneasy. Just like attacking sunni-thinking in a sunni-forum. They ban me there, and now I was banned here for a week, for attacking non-monotheistic thinking. Coupled with a lot of babbling. The only thing that came through here, was a statement that "there are shades of gray". There is no shades of gray to the truth. The truth is absolute. One. And you ofcourse fail to understand that this is a fundamental aspect of monotheism. You have at best, much to learn.
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Attacking the god of the sect, FM, makes their inhabitants uneasy. Just like attacking sunni-thinking in a sunni-forum. They ban me there, and now I was banned here for a week, for attacking non-monotheistic thinking. Coupled with a lot of babbling. The only thing that came through here, was a statement that "there are shades of gray". There is no shades of gray to the truth. The truth is absolute. One. And you ofcourse fail to understand that this is a fundamental aspect of monotheism. You have at best, much to learn.
Everyone here has a different idea of God which i'm sure you're aware so how can you attack "the god" of the sect. It doesn't make me personally uneasy if you attack an idea about God as it helps to rid false beliefs about The God.
As I said previously I agree with your notion that the truth is absolute but many truths exist because they are all part of the whole/the truth. To deny shades of grey exist in our reality is to deny that which is self evident....the very fact your discussing this with me proves there's shades of grey or else there would be no disagreements at all in the world.
PEACE
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You don
t understand what I am talking about "prince". I see you have a prince symbol thingy there. Yep, well no wonder you dont understand.I am a muslim, that feels like I am not recognized, in what supposedly is a muslim forum. That is exactly how I feel among sectarians too.
I have seen some brothers and sisters though, that talk about avoid satan, and follow a lot of islamic morality. But I couldn`t pray their way, or believe in their hadith. Too bad "quran aloners" rarely talk about these things.
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Dear Paradox,
Reading this thread, you seem to have a pre-set notion of what is right and wrong, and only if you see that same notion will you call a person "Muslim".
Your jab at me stating that alcohol is permissible is a clear example of this, where you have not studied the subject thoroughly, but have concluded that it cannot be permisible.
Different people have different levels of undertsanding. Even the prophets Solomon and David had a different understanding when they were judging on the issue of the damaged crop (see 2178-79), but Solomon in this case was the one with the correct understanding (does that make David a "non-Muslim" by your definition - because he differed?).
One of the most beautiful verses that teaches us how to deal with the differing opinoins/findings is
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
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And what is the best of alcohol vs non-alcohol, Layth?
"Those who follow the best of it" particulary suits a lot of modern christian thinking. Since the bible has been distorted, if you follow "the best" of it, you ignore the worst distortions.
Which ofcourse is a great mindset, in understanding 434 also, which I commented on.
I just have to say that, if you make permissible what is "of shayan".. Shaytan is a mad-creep polytheist. That is not the Qurans exact wording, but if you put togheter "feeble cunning" "deviance" "transgression" "polytheism" "follows his desire" etc. I am sure you understand that has to be right. I have gained some understaning on who shaytan is.
Who do you think is waiting after years of intoxicant use, tired and weared out? Who was it that you worshipped?
Alcohol is even called "spirits".
Alot of people have likes that are in conflict with religion, little idols that they carry around. There the Quran states, that you shall give up your life, in favour of God. You have to give up your alcohol, hasish, DMT etc. You see all those people in the forum? You think they would be here, if intoxicants were illegal, God praised, and satan rejected?
If the later were true, your forum would be more like a believers forum.
Everyone shall be recompensated without injustice.
Peace.
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Speaking of alcohol... All kinds of intoxicants are prohibited in Islam. Not just alcohol, but heroin, marijuana, cigarette, etc. End of case.
Source They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say "In them is great harm, and a benefit for mankind; but their harm is greater than their benefit." And they ask you how much are they to give, Say "The excess." It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think. (2219)
Hopefully you know what i mean )
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You shall submit to Him, reverence Him, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and - whatever you do - do not ever fall into idol worship. (Do not fall in idol worship,) like those who divide their religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what they have.
Say, "My Contact Prayers (Salat), my worship practices, my life and my death, are all devoted absolutely to GOD alone, the Lord of the universe.He has no partner. This is what I am commanded to believe, and I am the first to submit." Say, "Shall I seek other than GOD as a lord, when He is the Lord of all things? No soul benefits except from its own works, and none bears the burden of another. Ultimately, you return to your Lord, then He informs you regarding all your disputes."
And prayer is again to be godconscious, and shaytan keeps you from being godconscious with intoxicants.
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You shall submit to Him, reverence Him, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and - whatever you do - do not ever fall into idol worship. (Do not fall in idol worship,) like those who divide their religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what they have.
Say, "My Contact Prayers (Salat), my worship practices, my life and my death, are all devoted absolutely to GOD alone, the Lord of the universe.He has no partner. This is what I am commanded to believe, and I am the first to submit." Say, "Shall I seek other than GOD as a lord, when He is the Lord of all things? No soul benefits except from its own works, and none bears the burden of another. Ultimately, you return to your Lord, then He informs you regarding all your disputes."
And prayer is again to be godconscious, and shaytan keeps you from being godconscious with intoxicants.
And what if you don't get drunk? Or only do it once a year before sleeping? And by only drinking a little?
