What constitues Kufr?

[Aryan_Warrior]

So I know kufr refers to someone who purposely renounces God (like Shaytan)or someone who disbelieves, but what I want to know is how far does disbelief go?

If someone didn't know something was not allowed and thought it was allowed, does that mean he has commited kufr?

Or what if someone has wrongly misinterpreted a verse in the Quran, has this person commited kufr?

I would assume that thinking a verse or the Quran itself is false is kufr and that having the wrong impression of a verse isn't.

But I need confirmation, what do you guys thinks?

Thanks

[Student_of_Allah]

Shalom Aleikhem,

I dont know if I got it right, but the way I see it is that you have to conceal to be a Kafir. Because, in general, the message may not have reached a person whom you consider to be KAFIR. And even when the message reached him, probably other kafirs mixed so much falsehood with it that the person had to reject it. God knows that in her/his heart, the person did not reject God, but merely rejected models of God.

Example of Kufr

A renowned scholar of Qur'an, telling his sheep that "God said in Qur'an to take whatever messenger gives, and forbid what he forbids, so, we need to accept hadiths to take extra things from messenger beside Qur'an". In this case, the person is familiar with Qur'an, he has no excuse for concealing the truth in that ayaat. The only reason he is twisting tongue with it is to promote Bukhari and others and so that he can support whatever his forefathers followed. Not because Qur'an actually said that. This is act of concealing, Kufr. The way I see it.

Sometimes, we may tend to do it to ourselves. Instead of finding out what God said, we deliberately try to make the Qur'an say what we want it to say. Thus we conceal the ayaats from our own selves. That is an act of Kufr.

That I equate with disbelief. For one who really believed would not conceal even a dot from the Truth.

Thats just my opinion though.

Peace
---------- Student of Allah

[Aryan_Warrior]

Sometimes, we may tend to do it to ourselves. Instead of finding out what God said, we deliberately try to make the Qur'an say what we want it to say. Thus we conceal the ayaats from our own selves. That is an act of Kufr.

---------- Student of Allah

by concealing the ayaats from our selves you mean as in pretend its not there? Alright I get that but what if this one person says misinterprets an ayaats because he thinks it means a certain thing when it really doesn't. Thus he doesn't reject a word of the Quran but has misinterpreted.

As for that example with the scholar promoting the hadiths. The thing is that their beliefs are a bit different from ours and thus they don't seem to deliberately misinterpret the Quran and concealing from what I understand requires intention like with what Shaytan does and they for sure don't have such intentions, but rather they seem mislead by misinterpreting that one line which that scholar believes it means as such.

[Bigmo]

by concealing the ayaats from our selves you mean as in pretend its not there? Alright I get that but what if this one person says misinterprets an ayaats because he thinks it means a certain thing when it really doesn't. Thus he doesn't reject a word of the Quran but has misinterpreted.

As for that example with the scholar promoting the hadiths. The thing is that their beliefs are a bit different from ours and thus they don't seem to deliberately misinterpret the Quran and concealing from what I understand requires intention like with what Shaytan does and they for sure don't have such intentions, but rather they seem mislead by misinterpreting that one line which that scholar believes it means as such.

From the Koran we know kufr is denying the monotheism of God and the hereafter.

Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . 262

Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Book stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin good and forbid wrong; and they hasten in good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are God fearing. 3113-115

And there are, certainly, among the people of the Book, those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account. 3199

Say "O people of the Book Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but God, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides God. 364

29.46. And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better, unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our God and your God is one; and it is to Him we bow."

And they say "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to God and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. The Jews say "The Christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say "The Jews have naught (To stand) upon." Yet they study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but God will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment. 2.111-113

?O mankind ! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in God?s sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware.? (Qur?an 4913)

The Koran has a universal criteria as far as faith is concerned. Its non sectarian.

[Sunnah-hero]

So I know kufr refers to someone who purposely renounces God (like Shaytan)or someone who disbelieves, but what I want to know is how far does disbelief go?

If someone didn't know something was not allowed and thought it was allowed, does that mean he has commited kufr?

Or what if someone has wrongly misinterpreted a verse in the Quran, has this person commited kufr?

I would assume that thinking a verse or the Quran itself is false is kufr and that having the wrong impression of a verse isn't.

But I need confirmation, what do you guys thinks?

Thanks

The prophet sws said that whoever make a sin without knowledge would be forgiven. Likewise if a non-muslim becomes muslim all his past would be forgiven because he did it in his jahliya periode ..... you cannt translate the quran wrong if you translate it the way the prophet sws used to translate it wrong... lack of the prophet sws knowledge is the reason for all the confusion among quraniyoon.. they have different interpretations, and opinions etc. every quraaniy has his own religion. that is very dangerous because it created a grey zone where nothing is wrong and nothing is right..... I am only 14 years old but I feel if someone teaches 4 + 4 is equal to 5 I should stop him.... same thing quraniyoon say 4+4 is equal to 5 (in religious affairs) that is why i feel i must stop them.

[Aryan_Warrior]

The prophet sws said that whoever make a sin without knowledge would be forgiven. Likewise if a non-muslim becomes muslim all his past would be forgiven because he did it in his jahliya periode ..... you cannt translate the quran wrong if you translate it the way the prophet sws used to translate it wrong... lack of the prophet sws knowledge is the reason for all the confusion among quraniyoon.. they have different interpretations, and opinions etc. every quraaniy has his own religion. that is very dangerous because it created a grey zone where nothing is wrong and nothing is right..... I am only 14 years old but I feel if someone teaches 4 + 4 is equal to 5 I should stop him.... same thing quraniyoon say 4+4 is equal to 5 (in religious affairs) that is why i feel i must stop them.

Considering that fact that many of these "hadiths" go againsts what the Quran says and contradict themselves, I can't take them as fact. Thus I want a Quranist answer to it, not some hadith based answer.

But regardless in situations such as this let us not forget that even you Sunni's have varying views. Are those that have different views considered as kafirs? or rather misunderstood verses?

[MASOOMboy]

lack of the prophet sws knowledge is the reason for all the confusion among quraniyoon.. they have different interpretations, and opinions etc. every quraaniy has his own religion. that is very dangerous because it created a grey zone where nothing is wrong and nothing is right

Salaam, Sunnah Hero,

I agree 100% with you on this but kindly enlighten me as to how following Prophet hadith/sunnah will help us in removing the confusion, different interpretation and opinions ?? confused

The Hadith believers have in their arsenal more than 1 million hadiths, many great Imams and Sheikhs, and still they can't agree on their main five pillars of their Religion.

1. Faith
2. Salat
3. Soum
4. Hajj
5. Zakat
   Every sect/madhab differs in each of the above and call the other sect biddati/musrik/kafir, and not to mention those many sub-sects in each sect/madhab which does all those things very differently then their parent sect. brickwall

and the most funny thing is every sect/madhab and their sub-sects call themselves ahle sunnah wal jama and claim that they are on the right path and will go to jannah as per the hadith of 73 sects. hmm

You Know @ your age I started looking for truth and for 14 years, I had followed, one after the other, all the major jamats of sunni's & shia's in search of truth but sadly couldn't find any but lies, contradiction and fabrications.
Alhamdulilah , Allahu Rahman has guided me to the truth I.e, the source (Quran).

Brother, you are still young with lots of zeal, dedication and enthusiasm and I understand how you feel about this forum and its members ,As I used to feel the same for other Muslims who doesn't believe in what I and my jamat believed but that is because we are trained and brainwashed from childhood to believe so (

Pray to Allah for the straight way, use your common sense to try and find the truth , the path is very difficult and hard but Inshallah once you reach it then you'll get lots of self satisfaction & happiness along with a good reward in hereafter.

Peace pr

[Abdul-Hadi]

Greetings and Peace, all group

The prophet sws said that whoever make a sin without knowledge would be forgiven. Likewise if a non-muslim becomes muslim all his past would be forgiven because he did it in his jahliya periode ..... you cannt translate the quran wrong if you translate it the way the prophet sws used to translate it wrong... lack of the prophet sws knowledge is the reason for all the confusion among quraniyoon.. they have different interpretations, and opinions etc. every quraaniy has his own religion. that is very dangerous because it created a grey zone where nothing is wrong and nothing is right..... I am only 14 years old but I feel if someone teaches 4 + 4 is equal to 5 I should stop him.... same thing quraniyoon say 4+4 is equal to 5 (in religious affairs) that is why i feel i must stop them.

@Sunnah-hero

Ah...your age explains a lot. ISA, you will be able to break from your past and attach firmly to the truth.

What if I proved that 4 +4 can equal 5?

4 (cups) plus 4 (1/4 cups) equals 5 cups. laugh

You feel that you must stop someone? Did you not read and understand 2256, or are you a denier?

2256 There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been clarified from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in GOD, indeed he has taken grasp of the strongest hold that will never break. GOD is Hearer, Knower.

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

[Andantino]

From the Koran we know kufr is denying the monotheism of God and the hereafter.

Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . 262

Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Book stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin good and forbid wrong; and they hasten in good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are God fearing. 3113-115

And there are, certainly, among the people of the Book, those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account. 3199

Say "O people of the Book Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but God, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides God. 364

29.46. And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better, unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our God and your God is one; and it is to Him we bow."

And they say "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to God and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. The Jews say "The Christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say "The Jews have naught (To stand) upon." Yet they study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but God will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment. 2.111-113

?O mankind ! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in God?s sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware.? (Qur?an 4913)

The Koran has a universal criteria as far as faith is concerned. Its non sectarian.

Good answer brother bravo

For me, Kafir is reject the monotheism of God while they know that God is just one.
and Trinitarian.. for me they're kafir, and has nothing to do with Christianity (the True one)

but not all Trinitarian REALIZE their concept of God. some of my relatives are Roman Catholic and they're not worshipping Jesus, even tho they go to the church every sunday, but they always say that they worship the Father, and the Father is not the Son.

former Christian must know what i mean

[Aryan_Warrior]

Good answer brother bravo

For me, Kafir is reject the monotheism of God while they know that God is just one.
and Trinitarian.. for me they're kafir, and has nothing to do with Christianity (the True one)

but not all Trinitarian REALIZE their concept of God. some of my relatives are Roman Catholic and they're not worshipping Jesus, even tho they go to the church every sunday, but they always say that they worship the Father, and the Father is not the Son.

former Christian must know what i mean

So then by this logic only rejecting monotheism is kufr? sounds odd considering one of the pillars of belief is accepting the Quran.

Thus why I wanna know that is having a different interpretation for a verse compared to another is considered as kufr if your interpretation turns out to be wrong? For example we have Quranists here who interpret prayer as either 3 times a day another as 2 times a day. One must be wrong, so would the other be considering doing kufr or simply misinterpreted? If misinterpreted, is one held accountable for that belief (as in considering simply a sin but not kufr)? and thus does kufr simply refer to someone who rejects verses of the Quran as fake? or is simple misinterpretation considered as such?

[Indelwyn]

Good answer brother bravo

For me, Kafir is reject the monotheism of God while they know that God is just one.
and Trinitarian.. for me they're kafir, and has nothing to do with Christianity (the True one)

but not all Trinitarian REALIZE their concept of God. some of my relatives are Roman Catholic and they're not worshipping Jesus, even tho they go to the church every sunday, but they always say that they worship the Father, and the Father is not the Son.

former Christian must know what i mean D

True, I am from a Roman Catholic family and the only Muslim... so far I know my cousins and even my father don't buy into the trinity thing. I went to Church last week for a service for my grandfather who pasted 30 yrs ago. I just sat there, but even when they start now, using the "NEW" format, they state Jesus.. Prophet, Prince and Lord.

I think it is just comfort, they don't believe but stay, while some of us like to dig and search.

[Aryan_Warrior]

True, I am from a Roman Catholic family and the only Muslim... so far I know my cousins and even my father don't buy into the trinity thing. I went to Church last week for a service for my grandfather who pasted 30 yrs ago. I just sat there, but even when they start now, using the "NEW" format, they state Jesus.. Prophet, Prince and Lord.

I think it is just comfort, they don't believe but stay, while some of us like to dig and search.

While this is a bit off topic, i'd like to comment here.

This is the trend i've actually heavily noticed nowadays in that most Christians seem to be rejecting the trinity and going for unity. I am only 22 and my friends range from 16 to 26. Amongst them I know around 4 confirmed Christians. Two of them who are male ages 22 and 25 don't consider Jesus as God and another two who are 16 and female don't consider Jesus as God either.

Son of God though some do still accept i've noticed but when I asked about what that meant if they don't believe the trinity, they said that its more a title than anything, some consider it more a relationship thing between God and Jesus but regardless Jesus is seen to all of them as a prophet.

But yeah goes to show that the recent generation seem to all be going for unity which recently has gotten me quite happy as there was this girl I l liked that who was a Christian, but when I questioned her didn't consider Jesus as God and more like a prophet.

It seems Trinity is more a extremism thing nowadays in Christianity kinda like how Islam has Wahabism which is the most extreme form of the religion.

[Indelwyn]

See if this helps you

Although within numerous Islamic circles, non Muslims are frequently labelled as ?Infidels? and the Arabic term ?Kafir? (pl ?Kuffar?) is used for them, the Qur?an reveals an entirely different picture as to the identity of bearers of this term.
The Actual Meaning

Not only non Muslims, but rival sects issue Fatwas (edicts) of ?Takfeer? and declare each other as ?Kaafir? and outside the pale of Islam for one reason or another. But what is the literal and linguistic meaning of the term, that is often used to vilify opponents and evoke negative sentiments? In this article I will explore this as well as the Quranic usage of the terminology.
The Arabic word ?Kufr? (lit. rejection, concealment, covering up) is derived the triliteral root Ka-Fa-Ra which means ?he became a rejecter of, or a denier of?.
The term ?Kufr? or ?Rejection? in its various derivative forms in Qur?anic usage is in its generic sense, and wherever the word occurs, it does not imply or refer to ?Non Muslims?. E.g Prophet Abraham and his companions say in 604 that they have ?rejected? the belief of their persecutors (?Kafarna ? Bikum?). Similarly, in (2619) the Pharaoh, called Moses a ?Kaafir? i.e. a rejecter, as Moses had rejected the belief system of his.
So as Abraham?s followers who are believers say that they reject polytheism and the word ?Kafar? is used for that act of theirs and as Moses who is a believer and a Prophet had committed ?Kufr? of the tyranny of the Pharaoh, this demonstrates that ?Kafir?, ?Kufr? etc are not terms synonymous with ?Non Muslims?, or but are terms depicting specific acts and actions by human beings.
Believers in the Qur?an are ?Kaafirs? i.e. rejecters of ideologies opposing the Qur?an. Similarly those who uphold such ideologies, when they are faced with the Qur?anic message, and they consciously reject it, then they become ?Kaafirs? of the Qur?an. It is very common nowadays for some people to label all non Muslims as ?Kaafir?. Not only is this grammatically wrong, this view is not supported by the Qur?an itself.
What Qualifies One For ?Kufr?

Somebody who has never heard about the Qur?anic message, is not conscious of its teachings is not a ?Kaafir?, but in Qur?anic terminology a ?Jaahil? (ignorant of the message) or a ?Ghaafil? (unaware of the message) person.
For to qualify for ?Kufr?, one needs to be clear about and be consciously aware of the message first. When the message has not even reached somebody, then he or she cannot be called a ?rejecter? or an ?acceptor? of that message. It is only when one has knowledge of the message ? that he or she qualifies for acceptance or rejection. The Qur?an repeatedly says that people ??reject the truth AFTER it was made clear to them?.? (c.f. 2109, 4725 etc)
When the Qur?an uses the term ?Kaafir? to those who reject the Qur?an itself, then it also qualifies their traits further that they do this, when the message is clear to them, and they don?t just stop at merely rejecting the message, BUT ALSO actively oppose people from it as well (c.f. 471), and if that is not enough, they also PERSECUTE those who uphold the message (335 , and cause them mental, physical as well as material injury (637-.
It is on the basis of this intolerant behavior and persecution that such are condemned. Cross referencing verses related to ?Kaafir?, ?Kufr? and analyzing the behavior pattern inherent in it makes this abundantly clear and clears the misconception that the Qur?an is intolerant towards or condemns people of all faiths. In the light of this, a young boy in a remote dwelling who has never heard of the Quran and is innocently observing his ancestral faith is neither the ?Kaafir? that the Quran speaks of nor the target of its reprimands, until or unless he consciously rejects the message after its reception and engages in its opposition and persecution of believers.
First Comes The Message, Then Comes The Accountability

It is a consistent theme of the Qur?an, that before holding any community accountable, the Divine message is first and foremost delivered to its people ? and it is THEN that retribution comes in case of rejection and immorality and NEVER before hand. God of the Qur?an is not an unjust God, who holds people responsible for not observing a law, when people do not even now what that law is all about!
?And so it is that thy Sustainer would never destroy a community? for its wrongdoing so long as its people are still unaware.? (6131)
The Qur?an very clearly states that those people who were weak on earth and for some reason were not able to receive the message, e.g. many are mentally handicapped, and not have the faculties to comprehend the Qur?an, or young children who die before reaching an age of consent or those residing in such localities were the message has not reached them ? such people will not be held accountable by God.
But excepted shall be the truly helpless ? be they men or women or children ? who cannot bring forth any strength and have not been shown the right way (4 9 As for them, God may well efface their sin ? for God is indeed an absolver of sins, much-forgiving. (4 99)
That ?Kaafir? is a person who actively knows the message and then consciously rejects it, should also explain those passages where it is said that God has set a seal on their hearts. Many people misunderstand this (because they do not cross reference themes and passages, but are selective in their reading) to mean as if non believers or non Muslims have their hearts sealed by God ? this is not so.
God is not acting arbitrarily and without reason in the Qur?an. Whenever certain people are condemned IT IS ALWAYS ON ACCOUNT OF THEIR BEHAVIOUR that this condemnation is narrated.
A Consequence of Your Actions

We see in the Qur?an that human choices and actions COME FIRST, and based on those choices and an ACT OF GOD occurs. Because people consciously reject the message, and choose to persistently behave in an immoral way, that is why a consequence of their repeated wrongdoing is sealing of their hearts, and it is not the case that their fate was sealed by God beforehand.
The type of actions we do in life, that type of results we get. Actions come first, results afterwards. And we have the free will to choose whatever actions we want in life, says the Qur?an.
And say ?The truth from your Sustainer let, then, him who wills, believe in it, and let him who wills, reject it.? (1829)

[Aryan_Warrior]

See if this helps you

Although within numerous Islamic circles, non Muslims are frequently labelled as ?Infidels? and the Arabic term ?Kafir? (pl ?Kuffar?) is used for them, the Qur?an reveals an entirely different picture as to the identity of bearers of this term.
The Actual Meaning

Not only non Muslims, but rival sects issue Fatwas (edicts) of ?Takfeer? and declare each other as ?Kaafir? and outside the pale of Islam for one reason or another. But what is the literal and linguistic meaning of the term, that is often used to vilify opponents and evoke negative sentiments? In this article I will explore this as well as the Quranic usage of the terminology.
The Arabic word ?Kufr? (lit. rejection, concealment, covering up) is derived the triliteral root Ka-Fa-Ra which means ?he became a rejecter of, or a denier of?.
The term ?Kufr? or ?Rejection? in its various derivative forms in Qur?anic usage is in its generic sense, and wherever the word occurs, it does not imply or refer to ?Non Muslims?. E.g Prophet Abraham and his companions say in 604 that they have ?rejected? the belief of their persecutors (?Kafarna ? Bikum?). Similarly, in (2619) the Pharaoh, called Moses a ?Kaafir? i.e. a rejecter, as Moses had rejected the belief system of his.
So as Abraham?s followers who are believers say that they reject polytheism and the word ?Kafar? is used for that act of theirs and as Moses who is a believer and a Prophet had committed ?Kufr? of the tyranny of the Pharaoh, this demonstrates that ?Kafir?, ?Kufr? etc are not terms synonymous with ?Non Muslims?, or but are terms depicting specific acts and actions by human beings.
Believers in the Qur?an are ?Kaafirs? i.e. rejecters of ideologies opposing the Qur?an. Similarly those who uphold such ideologies, when they are faced with the Qur?anic message, and they consciously reject it, then they become ?Kaafirs? of the Qur?an. It is very common nowadays for some people to label all non Muslims as ?Kaafir?. Not only is this grammatically wrong, this view is not supported by the Qur?an itself.
What Qualifies One For ?Kufr?

Somebody who has never heard about the Qur?anic message, is not conscious of its teachings is not a ?Kaafir?, but in Qur?anic terminology a ?Jaahil? (ignorant of the message) or a ?Ghaafil? (unaware of the message) person.
For to qualify for ?Kufr?, one needs to be clear about and be consciously aware of the message first. When the message has not even reached somebody, then he or she cannot be called a ?rejecter? or an ?acceptor? of that message. It is only when one has knowledge of the message ? that he or she qualifies for acceptance or rejection. The Qur?an repeatedly says that people ??reject the truth AFTER it was made clear to them?.? (c.f. 2109, 4725 etc)
When the Qur?an uses the term ?Kaafir? to those who reject the Qur?an itself, then it also qualifies their traits further that they do this, when the message is clear to them, and they don?t just stop at merely rejecting the message, BUT ALSO actively oppose people from it as well (c.f. 471), and if that is not enough, they also PERSECUTE those who uphold the message (335 , and cause them mental, physical as well as material injury (637-.
It is on the basis of this intolerant behavior and persecution that such are condemned. Cross referencing verses related to ?Kaafir?, ?Kufr? and analyzing the behavior pattern inherent in it makes this abundantly clear and clears the misconception that the Qur?an is intolerant towards or condemns people of all faiths. In the light of this, a young boy in a remote dwelling who has never heard of the Quran and is innocently observing his ancestral faith is neither the ?Kaafir? that the Quran speaks of nor the target of its reprimands, until or unless he consciously rejects the message after its reception and engages in its opposition and persecution of believers.
First Comes The Message, Then Comes The Accountability

It is a consistent theme of the Qur?an, that before holding any community accountable, the Divine message is first and foremost delivered to its people ? and it is THEN that retribution comes in case of rejection and immorality and NEVER before hand. God of the Qur?an is not an unjust God, who holds people responsible for not observing a law, when people do not even now what that law is all about!
?And so it is that thy Sustainer would never destroy a community? for its wrongdoing so long as its people are still unaware.? (6131)
The Qur?an very clearly states that those people who were weak on earth and for some reason were not able to receive the message, e.g. many are mentally handicapped, and not have the faculties to comprehend the Qur?an, or young children who die before reaching an age of consent or those residing in such localities were the message has not reached them ? such people will not be held accountable by God.
But excepted shall be the truly helpless ? be they men or women or children ? who cannot bring forth any strength and have not been shown the right way (4 9 As for them, God may well efface their sin ? for God is indeed an absolver of sins, much-forgiving. (4 99)
That ?Kaafir? is a person who actively knows the message and then consciously rejects it, should also explain those passages where it is said that God has set a seal on their hearts. Many people misunderstand this (because they do not cross reference themes and passages, but are selective in their reading) to mean as if non believers or non Muslims have their hearts sealed by God ? this is not so.
God is not acting arbitrarily and without reason in the Qur?an. Whenever certain people are condemned IT IS ALWAYS ON ACCOUNT OF THEIR BEHAVIOUR that this condemnation is narrated.
A Consequence of Your Actions

We see in the Qur?an that human choices and actions COME FIRST, and based on those choices and an ACT OF GOD occurs. Because people consciously reject the message, and choose to persistently behave in an immoral way, that is why a consequence of their repeated wrongdoing is sealing of their hearts, and it is not the case that their fate was sealed by God beforehand.
The type of actions we do in life, that type of results we get. Actions come first, results afterwards. And we have the free will to choose whatever actions we want in life, says the Qur?an.
And say ?The truth from your Sustainer let, then, him who wills, believe in it, and let him who wills, reject it.? (1829)

Wow amazing post So in the end a Kafir is one who after being shown the Quran rejects it as in doesn't believe it is true or arrogently refuses to believe it is true. Thus someone who fully believes every wordo f the Quran and believes that it is perfect and from God can't be a kafir and thus even if this person has misinterprets a verse in the Quran, he wouldn't be considered a Kafir, but simply someone who has misinterpreted.

Though what i'm wondering is how does God judge someone who has misinterpreted the Quran? does he take that misinterpretation as sin? or is the person excused out of ignorance?

[Indelwyn]

Allah knows your heart and intention. How can Allah punish you when you are sincerely seeking the truth, good intention but maybe a little off. If you search with sincerity, you will find it. Now if one mistranslated to derail a person on purpose that is something different.

?If Allah helps you, none can overcome you If He forsakes you, who is there after that, that can help you? In Allah then, let the Believers put their trust.?

?Say Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed for us He is our Protector And on Allah let the believers put their trust.?

?And put they trust on the exalted in Might, the Merciful.?

??Then when thou hast taken a decision put they trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him)?

[Aryan_Warrior]

Allah knows your heart and intention. How can Allah punish you when you are sincerely seeking the truth, good intention but maybe a little off. If you search with sincerity, you will find it. Now if one mistranslated to derail a person on purpose that is something different.

?If Allah helps you, none can overcome you If He forsakes you, who is there after that, that can help you? In Allah then, let the Believers put their trust.?

?Say Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed for us He is our Protector And on Allah let the believers put their trust.?

?And put they trust on the exalted in Might, the Merciful.?

??Then when thou hast taken a decision put they trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him)?

Well that is true, but people who mistranslate I notice come in the form of some traditionalists like Sunnis who translate 6121 to have the word "slaughter" in it that throws a lot off into thinking you can only eat it if Gods name was said at slaughter, when no such word was there. Course, their intention isn't to misguide either as they believe that slaughtering an animal has to do with what 6121 means, while many of us here take to to mean that over any food we should declare Gods name.

Thus that would meaning that the one that is wrong isn't a kaffir as they don't intend to lead people away from God and believe they are bringing them closer, but simply wrong about his beliefs.

Thus why I guess Islam is an open religion with various ways to one interprets things...and thus why a system like democracy is really the only way to satisfy all of its needs as everyone has different views. People who misinterpret the verse when trying to live by it might be wrong in their belief of that verse but ultimately because they accept the book as the word of God and all of it is the truth even if people have different views, they are all believers

Also what if one is unsure of the meaning of a verse? how is one accounted there?

[hamzamutlu]

nice thread, nice thoughts mashaallah

So in the end a Kafir is one who after being shown the Quran rejects it as in doesn't believe it is true or arrogently refuses to believe it is true. Thus someone who fully believes every wordo f the Quran and believes that it is perfect and from God can't be a kafir and thus even if this person has misinterprets a verse in the Quran, he wouldn't be considered a Kafir, but simply someone who has misinterpreted.

I aggree.. yet if I were a nonmuslim I wouldn't wait for my prince to come and show me Quran D nobody has such a duty except the prophet who had already done it 1400 years ago. Anyone who wants afterlife must struggle to get it. Especially in the information era nobody has much excuse, I think.As to misinterpreting a verse, it depends on how much one is sincere to find out what God said or how much deliberately one tries to make the Qur'an say what he wants it to say,as student pointed out.

peace

[Aryan_Warrior]

nice thread, nice thoughts mashaallah

I aggree.. yet if I were a nonmuslim I wouldn't wait for my prince to come and show me Quran D nobody has such a duty except the prophet who had already done it 1400 years ago. Anyone who wants afterlife must struggle to get it. Especially in the information era nobody has much excuse, I think.As to misinterpreting a verse, it depends on how much one is sincere to find out what God said or how much deliberately one tries to make the Qur'an say what he wants it to say,as student pointed out.

peace

But many non-muslims might not even think twice about looking up Islam. You won't hear some Shintoist just randomly looking it up to see what it is or a devout Christian either. Unless they receive guidance to look it up that is.

As for what you said about "deliberately one tries to make the Qur'an say what he wants it to say" How does one know if he is? That is the one thing that scares me, in that what if when looking for an answer involving a verse, I am doing it cause it is more convenient for me subconciously? Like I have seen verses that have seemed scary before but when I studied it more and saw that this can actually mean this less scary thing, am I commiting kufr here? cause I am not rejecting the verse itself and believe it and it comes directly from God, yet I fear my desires may lead me to interpret a verse to my liking?

Unless of course you mean he literally rejects verses as fake or pretend they aren't there so that it is what he want or if you mean he interprets it in a way that is meant to mislead others.

[Bigmo]

I thionk faith is internal and I do not see whay people need scripture to have faith. I think people believe in scripture because that is what they believe anyways. We know many people believe din the Koran when it first came even though only a few verses came. Many companions of Muhamamd passed away very early when most of the Koran was not revealed. We know the Koran also said of Christians and Jews who believed in the Koran as people who already believed from before. Also Moses when confronting the Pharoah there was an Egyptian who hid his faith. This Egyptian did not need scripture to have faith.

Either you believe in God and an afterlife or you don't. Either you believe we are here for a purpose and we will be held accountable or you don't.

As far as what the Koran said about delivering the message to a people, I think this is about warning the disbelievers about God's retribution. But I think those among those people who believed in God will believe in that message and those who don't would reject it.

In the end its God who guides.

Some may ask so what is the purpose of scripture. Maybe its to establish a deen, a religion. But i guess I was talking about the issue of faith.

[hamzamutlu]

But many non-muslims might not even think twice about looking up Islam.

yes I know..and that's why muslims call them kafirs. Allah knows the best.

As for the 2nd issue, I think people sometimes have difficulty in accepting clear messages of Quran and try to reinterpret verses until their new understanding becomes tolerable. Actually nothing is deliberate here as they really convinced such a message is impossible from God so their new interpretition is correct (although it generally contradicts with many other verses).

A typical example may be the misinterpretition of 262. Since some people find Quran's message about nonmuslims (in particular about christians and jews) too harsh, they take misinterpretition of 262 as a shelter, that any faithful and rightous one will get salvation, which would make sense if 262 did only address nonmuslims, but it also addresses believers,the people of Quran, for whom believing in (1) God and (2) the last day only is definitely not sufficient

4136 O you who believe, you shall believe in GOD and His messenger, and the scripture He has revealed through His messenger, and the scripture He has revealed before that. Anyone who refuses to believe in GOD, and His angels, and His scriptures, and His messengers, and the Last Day, has indeed strayed far astray.

Of course the misinterpretition of 262 contradicts with tons of other verses, but some people adopt the new religion based on it and call nonmuslims submitters etc.. interesting

peace