Significance of alef in بِاسمِ
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Thanks - let me clarify I am not seeking help in figuring out what I mean when I use the word "worship"; I am asking you what YOU meant when you used the word.
You made several claims about the word "worship" and I am asking you what YOU meant when you used the word. Same for bkanwar2
Actually the word Ibada does not mean worship at all... In quran-based islam a muslim man/woman is not a worshipper of God. People are free to worship God if they want. There are no verses in the Quran that forbids worshipping God... Because the word worship is not quranic. The concept of worship exists in traditional islam (shia and sunni religions) and also in christianity and judaism. But the concept of worship does not exist in the Quran. This is a fact.
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Isn't Religion Islam based upon fundamental principle of Allah, praised as one and only deity for worship?
Here this is actually denied that the praise for Rabb is not at all as a deity for worship. Therefore, no worship of any kind. Hence, no religion of any kind.
rather it is, Rabb of all disiplines of Knowledge.
These two verses 11 & 12 are giving a tremendous message.
- Nullifying all religions.
- Calling upon everyone that if you really want to taste his eternal and everlasting mercy, praise him by knowing/learning all disciplines of knowledge, that he is Rabb.
Which religion gives this message?
Regards
Salaam,
RED I think one of the mistakes you make, is to take the definitions and principles arabs gave to the word Allah and implemented it in your translations.
Salaam,
Bender -
Isn't Religion Islam based upon fundamental principle of Allah, praised as one and only deity for worship?
Here this is actually denied that the praise for Rabb is not at all as a deity for worship. Therefore, no worship of any kind. Hence, no religion of any kind.
rather it is, Rabb of all disiplines of Knowledge.These two verses 11 & 12 are giving a tremendous message.
- Nullifying all religions.
- Calling upon everyone that if you really want to taste his eternal and everlasting mercy, praise him by knowing/learning all disciplines of knowledge, that he is Rabb.
Which religion gives this message?
Regards
Salamun Alaikum.
The above theological standpoint is interesting. But I am curious to know how brother bkanwar would translate / interpret the word "Millat" as in Millat-i-Ibrahim found in Al-Qur'an 2130?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Thanks - let me clarify I am not seeking help in figuring out what I mean when I use the word "worship"; I am asking you what YOU meant when you used the word.
You made several claims about the word "worship" and I am asking you what YOU meant when you used the word. Same for bkanwar2
Let me tell you what I mean by Worship. Worship consists of several acts of worship.
A man/woman does acts of worship that he/she thinks will please God and give him/her rewards in afterlife. These acts do not benefit humanity. The man/woman believes that these acts will please God, they do not please God. There is a difference between believing in something (with no evidence to support it) and knowing something (based on evidence/proof that supports one's view). The man/woman who believes that acts of worship will please God and give him/her rewards in the afterlife has no evidence to support his/her belief. Acts of worship will not bring a man/woman closer to God and will not give him/her rewards in the afterlife (see verse 3437 in the Quran).
Acts of worship do not benefit the human race.
Here are some examples of acts of worship
- Reciting the Quran in a language you don't understand.
- Circulating around a black cube in Mecca.
- Practicing Ritual prayer 3-5 times a day.
- Going to the Mosque on fridays.
- Fasting 30 days in Ramadan.
- Praying towards Mecca.
- Performing funeral prayers.
8 ) Washing the dead.
Acts of worship will not do the the following
- Stop corruption.
- Create social reforms.
- Reduce poverty.
- Reduce crime.
- Contribute to peace, justice and equality.
- Bring humanity forward (when it comes to education, human rights and science).
- Develop our personalities/souls so that we become more kind, compassionate and helpful.
On the other hand, acts of service is related to all the above mentioned things. And acts of service will bring a man/woman closer to God and give/him her rewards in the afterlife (see verse 3437 in the Quran).
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Peace,
That is Pagan worship. Worship is not a negative word when something is worshiped the right way.
It is true that worship will directly help anything in the world, but the adoration and love for God will bring us nearer to The Master. And for worship rituals are not the substance of it but what is in your heart.
The word glorify can be considered nearly synonymous with the word worship by the way, so if you are allergic to the word worship then go to another word that pleases you better. But worship is a logical phenomenon.
If you defend God in word against people who are ignorant and are reverent of your Master then you worship God. You do the will of your heavenly Creator. But crimes and atrocities practiced in the name of God against the law of God is not worship but false worship.
Have faith
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The Concept of Ibadah from Quran
December 2, 2012 by Quran- What is the importance of Understanding the word ?Ibadah??
Our creator has explained the purpose of our creation in these words,
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Wama khalaqtu aljinna waal-insa illa liyaAAbudooni
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And I did not create the jinn and ins except for serving Me.
The word ibadah is mostly translated as worship. According to the majority of Muslims, the concept of ibadah is limited to few ritual acts of worships.If ?ibadah? is limited to few rituals, that requires a relatively short period of time compared with the whole life of human being. Then, what about the rest of human life time?!!
Prophet Noah (759), Hud (765), ), Salih (773), Shu?ayb (785) and the other prophets also gave the message of Ibadah to their people.
- Wama arsalna min qablika min rasoolin illa noohee ilayhi annahu la ilaha illa ana faoAAbudooni
2125 And We did not send any messenger before you except that We inspired him that ?There is no god except Me, so serve Me.? (Fa abadoon)
- Inna hathihi ommatukum ommatan wahidatan waana rabbukum faoAAbudooni
2192 This is your nation, one nation, and I am your Lord so serve Me. (Fa abadoon)
- In kullu man fee alssamawati waal-ardi illa atee alrrahmani AAabdan
1993 There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes to Ar-rehman as a servant/?abd
From the above verses we can imagine the importance of Ibadah.
Ibadah is the purpose for which Allah has created us. However this word is mostly mistranslated as worship. Therefore the purpose of this article is to understand the meaning of ibadah.
- What is meant by Ibadah?
The word ?Ibadah is an Arabic word. It is derived from the root word ?abd, which means a servant/ slave/obedient.
Bani Israel and the Concept of Ibadah
- Thumma arsalna moosa waakhahu haroona bi-ayatina wasultanin mubeenin2346. Ila firAAawna wamala-ihi faistakbaroo wakanoo qawman AAaleena2347. Faqaloo anu/minu libasharayni mithlina waqawmuhuma lana AAabidoona
2345-47 Then We sent Musa and his brother Haroon, with Our signs and manifest authority, towards Firaun and his chiefs, so they behaved arrogantly, and they were haughty people. So they said ?Should we believe two mere humans like ourselves, while their people are servants to us?
In the above verses Firaun and his chiefs call Bani Israeel their servants/aabidoon (plural of abd; the one who gives ibadah).
During the debate between Musa and Phroah, Musa said;
- Watilka niAAmatun tamunnuha AAalayya an AAabbadta banee isra-eela
2622 ?And is it a favour that you taunt me with, so you could continue to enslave (abadat) the Children of Israel??
Did the Bani Israel consider Pharoah as their Ilah or worshipped him?
People of Bani Israel were not worshiping Pharoah, even then the word ibadah is used in the above verse . They never considered Firaun as their ilah or rabb. They only regarded Allah as their rabb and ilah
- Faqaloo AAala Allahi tawakkalna rabbana la tajAAalna fitnatan lilqawmi alththalimeena
1085 So they(children of Isra?eel) said, ?in Allah we put our trust; our rabb, do not make us a temptation for the oppressing people;
- ? qala amantu annahu la ilaha illa allathee amanat bihi banoo isra-eela waana mina almuslimeena
1090 ? he(Firaun) said, ?I believe that there is no ilah but He in whom the children of Israel believe, and I am of Muslimeen.
So even though Bani Israel considered only Allah as their rabb and ilah, they were made to give their ibadah to Firaun i.e. Firaun was their ma?bood.
From the above two verses it is evident that the word ibadah means obedience, Service, subservience, and NOT worship or paying homage to any deity
Shaitan and the Concept of Ibadah
Allah says in Quran verse 3660
- Alam aAAhad ilaykum ya banee adama an la taAAbudoo alshshaytana innahu lakum AAaduwwun mubeenun
3660 ?Did I not pledge to you, O Children of Adam, that you should not serve the Shaitan for he is your most ardent enemy??
Here ibadah cannot means, ritual mode of worship. Since no one does the ibadah of Shaitan the way we understand the term ibadah.
- What is Ibadah of Shaitan?
In order to understand Ibadah of Shaitan, we should know how Shaitan misleads people from straight path.
- Qala rabbi bima aghwaytanee laozayyinanna lahum fee al-ardi walaoghwiyannahum ajmaAAeena1540. Illa AAibadaka minhumu almukhlaseena1541. Qala hatha siratun AAalayya mustaqeemun
1539 He (Shiataan) said My Lord! Because You have sent me astray, I will certainly adorn the path of error for them in the earth, and shall mislead them collectively
1540 Except for those among Your ibaad/servants who are mukhliseen/exclusive(to You).
1541 He(Allah) said This(mukhlis/exclusive ibadah) is the siraat-e-mustaqeem/straight path upon Me.
The above verse refers to ?mukhlis/exclusive ibadah? as the siraat-e-mustaqeem/straight path (leading towards Allah)
- What is straight path (sirat e mustaqeem)?
In Quran, verse 6150 to 6152, Allah has explained the straight path, that includes the following;
- Do not set up anything with Him
- Do good to your parents
- Do not fight with your children for fear of poverty nor deprive them of proper training and education
- Do not come near lewdness whether openly or in secret
- Do not slay a life ? life that God has made sacred ? except in the course of justice
- Do not approach the wealth of the orphan except to improve it until they come of age with full maturity of body and mind
- Give full weight and full measure in all your dealings. Uphold justice in all aspects of your life.
- And when you voice an opinion, be just, even if it is against a relative.
Fulfil your Covenant with God, the unwavering allegiance to the Divine System (14-5, 9111)
After giving the above nine commandments, Allah says in verse 6153, ?this is my straight path. Follow it, then, and follow not other ways that take you away from His path?
Therefore all aspects of our lives which are devoid of Allah?s ibadah, (Sirat e Mustaqeem mentioned in verse 6150 to 6153) are filled by the ibadah of Shaitaan.
Source
http//quranonly.wordpress.com/2012/12/02/the-concept-of-ibadah-from-quran/
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That is Pagan worship. Worship is not a negative word when something is worshiped the right way.
Peace MofF,
I agree with you about worship not being a negative word. Worship is not a negative word. But that was not my point. My point was the following "worship is not a quranic concept". Worship is not a quranic concept because no Arabic word in the Quran can be translated as worship. The word Ibadah in the Quran means service when it is translated from Arabic to English. If we translate the word Ibadah to mean worship, then this will create disrepancies/contradictions between different verses in the Quran. I don't know about you, but I prefer to call a spade a spade"
In my last post I shared an article with the title "Concept of Ibadah in the Quran." Have you read the article? If you haven't read it I strongly recommend reading it. The article is a falsehood-destroyer. The claim that Ibadah means worship has no basis in reality. This claim only has basis in falsehood. And the article I shared in my last post disproves this claim once and for all.
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Peace,
I consider the word glorify to be quite synonymous with worship to be honest.
Ibada on the other hand is not worship it is service.
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This whole confusion about worship is because we are not understanding the meanings of root Ayn-Ba-Dal. Thereby missing the real relationship with our Rabb according to Quran.
Ayn-Ba-Dal = Bondsman. Who is bondsman according to English language. One acts as a surety bond for or instead of other for who one is acting as a surety bond.
So when Quran Says
It is taking human status far from being just a servant, salve or worshiper. It is making us humans as the "Surety bond for our Rabb". But then it is making us responsible for carrying out all his attributes where he apparently seems missing from the scene. This is the responsibility of ones as "surety bond". No acts of ritual worship and/or praise can absolve humans from this responsibility of being a surety bond for their Rabb.
My question, which religion is promoting this relationship and responsibility?
Regards,
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bkanwar2 -
So when Quran Says
What verse(s) is this?
I am trying to understand your explanation of our role as bondsman/surety bond which required some research on my part (http//www.sba.gov/content/surety-bonds-basics)
I understand there are 3 parties to a transaction involving a surety bond
- The obligee
- The principal
- The bondsman
The obligee (the one who an obligation is owed to) one who wants to ensure that someone he has a contract with (i.e. the principal) will fulfill their contractual obligations to him.
The obligee, in order to ensure they get what they have contracted for, requires the principal to provide a surety bond by a bondsman.
The surety bond is a pledge from the bondsman stating that if the principal defaults on the contract, the bondsman will find a substitute to fulfill the contractual obligations of the principal... and if this is not possible, the bondsman will compensate the obligee if the contractual obligations cannot be fulfilled for some reason (e.g. by a certain deadline).
Are my definitions above in alignment with yours? If so, can you tell me who is playing what role in your explanation? I'm sorry, but it is unclear to me.
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Good work Samir,
What you have come up is in terms of financial transections.
In purely legal terms. There is an Obligee, that has certain obligations to system. However, to set him free he needs a surety bond. The surety bond woes to fulfill Obligee obligations to the system, if obligee will not.
Keeping the above in mind. Let us replace Obligee, with concept of Rabb meaning "the sustaniner, maintainer, accomplish and foster" as his primary obligation. Now us human as his surety bond would be required to fulfill his this obligation to his system. Where ever, there appears a lack of this obligation being fulfilled. Please remember he is Rabb period for everybody and everything.
Furthermore he is identified right at start Rabb of all disciplines of Knowledge.
Therefore, humans as his surety bond are suppose to be Rabb of all disciplines on Knowledge.
If we just understand this much and practically adopt, our problems will start to evaporate. Don't you think?
Regards
Sorry Verse is 1930
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Thanks bkanwar2-
Sorry, but I'm still not following.
What you have come up is in terms of financial transections.
This leads me to suspect that you want me to ignore the definitions I have provided and use different definitions, maybe ones that you are providing?
Note I will from now on refer to the definitions I have provided above as "my definitions" even though they are merely my understanding of the definitions provided by the website link I posted. "My definitions" are in contrast to my understanding of "your definitions" in my attempt to understand what you are saying
In my definition, the Obligee is the one who RECEIVES what is provided from the Principal (or in the case of Principal's default, from the Bondsman or from a substitute provided by the Bondsman)
In your definition, the Obligee (i.e. God) is the one who is obligated to PROVIDE (which is the role of the Principal/Bondsman in my definition).
I understand you to say that when God does not provide (for whatever reason), that the obligation falls upon us since we are the Bondsmen.
If I am correctly understanding what you are saying, then it seems to me that according to my definitions
Obligee, = the one who is to RECEIVE that which is supposed to be provided by contract = mankind
Principal, = the one under contract to PROVIDE to the Obligee (i.e. mankind) = God
Bondsmen, = those who will make sure that the Obligee receives what he is under contract to receive should the Principal not Provide per the contract again, = mankind.
This is what I understand you to be saying. Please clarify where I have made a mistake. Thanks--
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Samir every language's words have some basic meaning/concept . That is where one needs to start.
One of the main and basic meaning of English word "Bondsman" is "Someone who signs a bond that states that they have taken responsibility for someone else's obligations".
Hope this helps. Problem with all of us is that there are so many preconceived concepts ingrained into us. This impedes the new ones.
However, to understand Quran fundamental concept is the meaning of Allah as "one who is not at all deity for worship".
Regards,
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Salamun Alaikum.
The above theological standpoint is interesting. But I am curious to know how brother bkanwar would translate / interpret the word "Millat" as in Millat-i-Ibrahim found in Al-Qur'an 2130?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanSalam brother, this needs work. Millat traditional account says this words root is Miim-Lam-Lam. It could be Miim-Lam-Ta.
However, both roots do not even have a meanings that come close to meaning of Religion, Deen, Creed, People etc.
Please look up both roots in Lane.
Whatever, people of past did to the meaning Quran, is in front of us. But don't you think all of us are equal culpurits by not realizing despite example after example that current quranic translation accepted by default as the real Quran by all is totally wrong.
Worse are those who not only do not realize it; but keep hindering any such efforts of creating mass awareness due their egos, close mindedness and fear of loss of money and power of suppressing other fellow humans.
Regards
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Salam brother, this needs work. Millat traditional account says this words root is Miim-Lam-Lam. It could be Miim-Lam-Ta.
However, both roots do not even have a meanings that come close to meaning of Religion, Deen, Creed, People etc.
Please look up both roots in Lane.
Salamun Alaika brother.
This is what I get in Lane for millat (ٌ
A religion; (S, Msb, K a way of belief and practice in respect of religion. (T, &c.) -b2- See 8.
An Arabic-English Lexicon. London. Williams and Norgate. 1863.(Ref http//www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text;jsessionid=DC225345F50768B34BFE479A2D3BE695?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2002.02.0046%3Aroot%3Dml%3Aentry%3Dmil%7EapN)
If you are referring to some other entry kindly quote.
If you (or anyone for that matter) can prove or show that the traditional interpretation of a specific word or term in Qur'an is different from what the literal meaning of the word is supposed to be, or what the root of the word suggest - as per the usage in Arabic language, I am 100% open to listen and consider. So, please bring on your evidences and enlighten us.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salam Brother, it seems like you are intrested in learning and not here to defend held belief.
There is a method to study Lane, which he has described well in preface.
This root Miim-Lam-Lam happens to be in suppliment which was compiled by his Nephew Stanley Poole after his death. Hence, is not as comprehensive as the portion compiled by Lane himself.
He starts of with most common and accepted root meanings first, then goes on to give all meanings. Please remember Quran was written first with out any lexicons. The lexicons were completed until after the current translation Quran was already done and which is accepted by default as real Quran. Therefore, most meanings used in current translation are there in the lexicon.
Here is the first page from Lane for this root followed by next and final. Do you find any meanings coming close to Religion etc in the begining?
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000276.pdf
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000277.pdfRegards
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Salam brother - and thanks for the excerpts from Lane.
I believe you are refering to the following meanings
Mallah-He put it (namely bread, or fleshmeat,) into hot ashes, .
OR, He sewed, or tacked, the garment, or piece of cloth, previously to the sewing.
Maliltu-I was averse from it; loathed it; was disgusted by it, with it, or at it; turned away from it with disgust.I agree that these meanings do not seem to be connected to "Millat = religion", but none of these meanings remotely fits the usage of the term "Millat" in Qur'an. Some examples given below
2120 Neither the yahud (i.e. repenters) nor the nasara (i.e. helpers) will ever be satisfied with you until you follow their religion (millatahum). Say, ?Indeed it is the guidance of Allah is the guidance.? But if you follow their fancies after which has come to you of the knowledge - there will be no guardian for you against Allah, nor (any) helper.
... ...
2130 And who will opt out of the religion (millati) of Abraham except who fools his (own) soul? And certainly We have chosen him in the world and indeed, in the hereafter, he is surely amongst the (ones acting) appropriately.
... ...
6161 Say, ?Indeed me ? my Master has guided me to a straight route ? an established resolution (deenan) ? the religion (millati) of Abraham, the precise ? and he did not happen to be among the ones associating partners (with Allah).?
(My personal translations, cross-checking is recommended)
Different words coming from the same root having totally different meaning is not at all uncommon in Arabic. So, unless someone comes up with a hypothesis why some other root meaing of the term "millat" is preferable over "religion" for understanding the Qur'an - I am going with the meaning of "religion". But good-luck with your research. I'll be curious to see what you eventually come up with.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Best regards,
Arman