Your Thoughts on Secular Governments?
-
*How moral and godly would they be?
This is the same problem on a religious government too.. actually it's much worse on a religious government..
There need to be proper check and balance in place, as thus this can be minimized..*And to what extent freedoms are granted?
To the extent that it doesn't disrupt other people rights and well being..
Thus the saying of "It's your right to worship a stone as long as you didn't throw that stone to me"...*What code of law/basis are they going to lay their foundation upon ?
Those which are agreed upon with the people..*God Almighty seemingly becoming a taboo in the public school system
Not necessarily.. within non religious society... the conception of deity or deities are being taught 'as it is' without the preconception of 'indoctrination'.. (i.e. according to X, there are Y gods, and they are...... according to Y there are 1 god and it is... according to Z there are no gods...)
And I strongly support of not teaching religion(s) to kids..*Power, greed, and injustice
The same everywhere.... injustice can be suppressed through tight control of administration by its people..*Who is going to rule the country (religious affiliations, race, etc)
Those who are elected to run (and not rule) the administration for certain society within certain period of time..and if you think that America has a lovely government, please read
Natural Cures "They" Don't Want You to Know About, by Kevin Trudeau
In the Book, please read about the corruption of the FDA and other Government organizations.
"it's all about the money"Yup they don't... yet so does everywhere else.. there are corruptions in KSA and Vatican too..
But at the very least Mr Trudeau can freely wrote about it..
Without receiving any death threat from the Mullah, Imams, Sultan, Pope, Rabbis etc..Salam / Peace
-
Peace be with you as well,
Thanks for replying back.I like my freedoms here in the US, and I wouldn't really want to go live in "muslim" countries.
Corruption and injustice might just be found everywhere, maybe reflective of God's plans/wants as he will not guide everyone. (169)"We allow the leading criminals of every community to plot and scheme. But they only plot and scheme against their own souls, without perceiving." (6123)
-
I see that there are people who believe that government should not exist and
However does it not say in AQ that God created us into nations and tribes? Nations have governments don't they? Tribes also have their our councils made up of tribal members to discuss issues etc, no?
Also, did God not give Kingship to certain people?
We need governments, from local councils to the the federal level, because we need to have people/systems dedicated to ensure that society is functioning, that basics needs are being met, the laws are being obeyed etc.
And there needs to be someone or a group of people at the top. Just like a principle of a school, the dean of a university the captain of a team, plane or ship. There has to be somone at the top to make sure everything is going the way as planned The buck has to stop somewhere!
And why is it that people always give the example of the US as the prime reason why governments are bad and should not exist. Why not talk about the Scandanavian/Nordic countries or the Benelux countries, Switzerland, Austria, Germany, Singapore or Australia??? There are some very bad governments, but there are also some very good ones.
Countries with good government and strong government do well. Its a fact. No society is perfect. But there are some that come close.
Regards,
Al-Azhar.
-
I see that there are people who believe that government should not exist and
However does it not say in AQ that God created us into nations and tribes? Nations have governments don't they? Tribes also have their our councils made up of tribal members to discuss issues etc, no?
The word is "Ummat", and "Ummat" correlate with "Society" rather than "Nation"...
Every society should have an 'administrator' but not a 'government'...Also, did God not give Kingship to certain people?
Kingship???? And pass his uncontrolled / unlegislated absolute power to his own progeny??
You must read the "House Of Saud" or "House Of Hashem" or "Bashar Assad" version of the Quran.. rotfl rotflThe outright rejection over the concept of "Kingship" thus automatically granting power to the king's own son (or whomever else he wishes) without any consultation and agreement from the people is what makes Mr. Hussein Bin Ali got beheaded around 1400 years ago..
We need governments, from local councils to the the federal level, because we need to have people/systems dedicated to ensure that society is functioning, that basics needs are being met, the laws are being obeyed etc.
Countries with good government and strong government do well. Its a fact. No society is perfect. But there are some that come close.
You're mentioning the functionality of 'administration' and not 'government'...
The real difference is on the 'military'.. or put it simply... the "State Government of California" is an 'administration' and not a 'government'... While the "Federal Government of US" IS a government..Salam / Peace
-
The only acceptable law is the one Allah created, the Natural Law.
All forms of sovereigns other than Allah, which includes democracy, monarchy etc... are unlawful in Islam.
The bible is extremely corrupted and you know it, so are many holy books and even history, they're all corrupted by the leaders, which happen to be the governments, the Roman Catholic Church etc...
If you read the quran carefully, you will realise that the quran is the bases of a governement of the ELITE, not all the people decide for the whole except the Elite, in the quran they're called utu alilm or Ulema , of course, religious people kidnapped this word , so a scholar means for them a religious man with the memory of an elephant to keep hadiths in their head , thinking is not allowed ofcourse, or think but do not oppose
-
If you read the quran carefully, you will realise that the quran is the bases of a governement of the ELITE, not all the people decide for the whole except the Elite, in the quran they're called utu alilm or Ulema , of course, religious people kidnapped this word , so a scholar means for them a religious man with the memory of an elephant to keep hadiths in their head , thinking is not allowed ofcourse, or think but do not oppose
To you thus, the "elite" can only be followers of the Qu'ran and nothing else? We must understand that morality is universal, and not exclusive to a certain class of people. To distinguish evil from good is something that is innate and emotional, and is not attained by reading books.
The only way to coexist freely and with peace, is to understand that morality is universal, adopt natural law and live in "communes" with "administrations" like pointed Jafar. The need of leaders is an argument that is self-defeating.
-
Kingship???? And pass his uncontrolled / unlegislated absolute power to his own progeny??
You must read the "House Of Saud" or "House Of Hashem" or "Bashar Assad" version of the Quran.. rotfl rotflThe outright rejection over the concept of "Kingship" thus automatically granting power to the king's own son (or whomever else he wishes) without any consultation and agreement from the people is what makes Mr. Hussein Bin Ali got beheaded around 1400 years ago..
2247 And their prophet said to them ?God has sent Saul to you as a king.? They said ?How can he have the kingship when we are more deserving than him, and he has not been given an abundance of wealth?? He said ?God has chosen him over you and increased him in knowledge and physical stature.? God grants His sovereignty to whom He chooses; and God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
2716 And Solomon inherited from David, and he said ?O people, we have been taught how to understand the speech of the creatures that fly, and we have been given from everything. This is indeed an evident grace.?
4810 Those who pledge allegiance to you, are in-fact pledging allegiance to God; the hand of God is above their hands. Those of them who violate such a pledge, are violating it only for themselves. And whoever fulfills what he has pledged to God, then He will grant him a great re ward.
459 O you who believe, obey God and obey the messenger and those in authority among you. But if you dispute in any matter, then you shall refer it to God and His messenger if you believe in God and the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for knowing.
I really must be reading some other version of AQ.....
-
2247 And their prophet said to them ?God has sent Saul to you as a king.? They said ?How can he have the kingship when we are more deserving than him, and he has not been given an abundance of wealth?? He said ?God has chosen him over you and increased him in knowledge and physical stature.? God grants His sovereignty to whom He chooses; and God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
Read 2246 and it give you a clear indication of the consequences of 'having a king' or 'the whole objective of having a king'.. And how the israelites organized themselves before having a king. The request or idea of having a 'king' came from them in the first place..
And what the consequences are...2716 And Solomon inherited from David, and he said ?O people, we have been taught how to understand the speech of the creatures that fly, and we have been given from everything. This is indeed an evident grace.?
So the story goes..
Saul power was 'unchecked', he became corrupt.. "The Israelite Prophet" who were mentioned in 2246-247 withdrew his support and 'annointed' another young lad to oppose the corrupt King. The boy name is David. He launches a 'revolution' / 'civil war' to overthrow the king and he succeed... And (sadly) he become a king himself.. and didn't change the system.. His son Solomon inherited the power.. which then pass on the power to his son..Solomon's son (supposedly named Rehoboam) turned out to be the last "king" within israelite history.. he increased taxes which incite a rebellion from the people.. and the israelites yet fought another civil war between them..
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RehoboamThat's the full (his)story of 'having a king'...
A similar pattern of story can be found within Sunni-Shiites civil war..
459 O you who believe, obey God and obey the messenger and those in authority among you. But if you dispute in any matter, then you shall refer it to God and His messenger if you believe in God and the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for knowing.
The word is actually 'amr', mean 'leader' or 'care taker'..or 'those who entrusted to deal with matter'..(ulil amri)
A perfect equivalent of 'administrator'...I really must be reading some other version of AQ.....
Yup you're quoting the Quran with a a preconceived notion of "Kingdom"/"Sultanate"/"Emirate"...
The house of Saud (and other kingdom in the past) has uses the AQ in similar manner to justify their power and gain the absolute obedience from his subject..Salam / Peace
-
The key is to understand that morality is not intellectual and logical. If I ask for an example of evil, one will give me an answer such as ''murder'' or ''thievery'', but this just a verbalization of our emotion, because these are not logical explanations, we cannot intellectually differentiate evil from good. The sphere of the intellectual and the emotional are different, as much as one cannot explain why X was sad on the day Y mathematically, one cannot say that this act was evil or good based on a bullet-proof logical and intellectual fact.
Thus, the peasant and the aristocrat will both systematically agree upon what is good and what is not, regardless of what they have or have not read. Upon this understanding, one will systematically arrive to the conclusion that the only law to be adopted is the one that is universal and appertains to each and every human being that is born on this earth, regardless of his class.
Let's hold on to what we know is true!
-
The word is "Ummat", and "Ummat" correlate with "Society" rather than "Nation"...
Every society should have an 'administrator' but not a 'government'...Kingship???? And pass his uncontrolled / unlegislated absolute power to his own progeny??
You must read the "House Of Saud" or "House Of Hashem" or "Bashar Assad" version of the Quran.. rotfl rotflThe outright rejection over the concept of "Kingship" thus automatically granting power to the king's own son (or whomever else he wishes) without any consultation and agreement from the people is what makes Mr. Hussein Bin Ali got beheaded around 1400 years ago..
You're mentioning the functionality of 'administration' and not 'government'...
The real difference is on the 'military'.. or put it simply... the "State Government of California" is an 'administration' and not a 'government'... While the "Federal Government of US" IS a government..Salam / Peace
Peace.
Government is government, no matter what other labels may be used. If it functions as a government, it is a government. Different terms do not change its substance.
Each of the United States has its own government.
It is clear that the Quran assumed governments. Notice that the Quran directed Mohammed's group to honor its treaty obligations. Notice also that the Quran gave them guidance for defensive warfare. The guidance that there is to be no compulsion as to religion (or faith) is also a limit ordered for government(s).
SOL's first words I am not a baby, I am an infant.
-
I see that there are people who believe that government should not exist
Peace Al-Azhar - I think its become trendy for many people online to talk about new anarchist/minarchist societies - to organise without a government - its no different to the communists who talked about how there was going to be a utopia - even though it was completely untested!
-
Peace Al-Azhar - I think its become trendy for many people online to talk about new anarchist/minarchist societies - to organise without a government - its no different to the communists who talked about how there was going to be a utopia - even though it was completely untested!
You're based on a preconceived notion of "When We or I am not ruling there will be an anarchy"..
Which regularly propagandized by the ruler/king/dictator.At least once every 4 years in US appears an ad message like
"We're living in dangerous world...."And recently similar message are being delivered by Putin
"The western powers are going to get us..... but no need to worry, I will bring back the glory of Motherland Russia"..And also Arabic Kings / Emir / Dictator
"The west / capitalist / jews / christians / shiites are going to get us... but no need to worry, I will bring back the glory of Islam, Arabs etc.."And also Kim's family in North Korea....
The list goes on and on...The ruler / militarymen / king / dictator spread those message in order to stay 'relevant' within today's world..
On some 'sectarian states' they also being helped by (paid) clerics to furtherly spread the fear message within society..Salam / Peace
-
Peace Al-Azhar - I think its become trendy for many people online to talk about new anarchist/minarchist societies - to organise without a government - its no different to the communists who talked about how there was going to be a utopia - even though it was completely untested!
To say that the concept of a stateless society is alien and never was tested is a joke - it made me smile.